The Ledge

The Ledge (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php)
-   Post-Rumours (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/forumdisplay.php?f=3)
-   -   Picture from 1996 (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=55821)

Nicks Fan 05-14-2020 03:11 PM

The thing I always found hypocritical was those in recent years who chided or made of Lindsey for playing theaters and or casinos on solo tours and opening uo for Tina Turner but Stevie has done the same thing. She has opened for Rod Stewart done co head lining tours with The Pretenders and Don Henley. She also has played casinos and theaters as late as the IYD tour. I don't think for a second that if she did another solo tour with zero opening act or Vanessa Carleton again that she would be playing and or selling out arenas.

Her last tour was successful but I think having the Pretenders along helped a great deal. It amounted to a tour similar to the ones being put on with bands like Def Leppard and Journey or Chicago and REO Speedwagon, Heart with Sheryl Crow and Elle Goulding or Steve Winwood and Santanna etc. You get two groups of fans buying tickets.

I think the reunion in 97 helped everyone. Lindsey made some new music finally and did tour even if it took a while before that happened. It just makes me mad that since 97 we have 1 new studio album from FM. Yet they have milked the past for over 10 years vs doing new music for the fans.

Macfan4life 05-14-2020 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicks Fan (Post 1258060)
The thing I always found hypocritical was those in recent years who chided or made of Lindsey for playing theaters and or casinos on solo tours and opening uo for Tina Turner but Stevie has done the same thing. She has opened for Rod Stewart done co head lining tours with The Pretenders and Don Henley. She also has played casinos and theaters as late as the IYD tour. I don't think for a second that if she did another solo tour with zero opening act or Vanessa Carleton again that she would be playing and or selling out arenas.

Her last tour was successful but I think having the Pretenders along helped a great deal. It amounted to a tour similar to the ones being put on with bands like Def Leppard and Journey or Chicago and REO Speedwagon, Heart with Sheryl Crow and Elle Goulding or Steve Winwood and Santanna etc. You get two groups of fans buying tickets.

I think the reunion in 97 helped everyone. Lindsey made some new music finally and did tour even if it took a while before that happened. It just makes me mad that since 97 we have 1 new studio album from FM. Yet they have milked the past for over 10 years vs doing new music for the fans.

Yep. It is so strange.
Lindsey was not happy in 1987 but did Tango for the benefit of the band especially Mick. Christine was not happy in 1997 but did 40 shows for the benefit of the band especially Mick. Cant believe how miserable she was that she would not even do a few shows in her native England.
Oh well, we must appreciate what we got I guess.

SteveMacD 05-14-2020 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams (Post 1258050)
I agree Lindsey's solo career didn't make as much money or chart as high as Stevie's.

Itís not a contest. Lindsey wasnít viable as a solo artist at that time. His album tanked in spite of heavy promotion and the leadership change at the label didnít favor him going forward as a solo artist. It also didnít favor Fleetwood Mac going forward without him and Stevie, especially if Christine wasnít going to do an extensive tour. Stevie also hit a low point in her career and needed to reinvent herself on a grand scale. A reunion was the only way any of them had a chance to have careers going forward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfan4life (Post 1258059)
I remember Fleetwood Mac playing a small nightclub in 1994 (one year before Time) in West Palm Beach. I imagine this is what Mick regrets about carrying the band on at any cost. I wonder what they were paid for such a small gig.

Youíd be surprised. Some of the small venues come up with serious cash to get a a couple of big name acts. Iíve seen some small venues come up with over $30,000 for a band.

Iíd be curious to see the itinerary at that time. It could have been a pickup gig. In any case, I never faulted the venues and tours they did in 94-95 because they didnít have an album of new material out. Since it was a new lineup with none of the vocalists in the classic lineup and they didnít have anything released except one song, I donít know what people expected them to play.

Macfan4life 05-15-2020 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveMacD (Post 1258062)
It’s not a contest. Lindsey wasn’t viable as a solo artist at that time. His album tanked in spite of heavy promotion and the leadership change at the label didn’t favor him going forward as a solo artist. It also didn’t favor Fleetwood Mac going forward without him and Stevie, especially if Christine wasn’t going to do an extensive tour. Stevie also hit a low point in her career and needed to reinvent herself on a grand scale. A reunion was the only way any of them had a chance to have careers going forward.


You’d be surprised. Some of the small venues come up with serious cash to get a a couple of big name acts. I’ve seen some small venues come up with over $30,000 for a band.

I’d be curious to see the itinerary at that time. It could have been a pickup gig. In any case, I never faulted the venues and tours they did in 94-95 because they didn’t have an album of new material out. Since it was a new lineup with none of the vocalists in the classic lineup and they didn’t have anything released except one song, I don’t know what people expected them to play.

I regret so much for not going. I wanted to and then passed because of exactly what you said. What in the world were they going to play?
The following year in 1995 they were one of the big acts to headline "Sunfest" which is a HUGE 3 day art festival in West Palm Beach. This was May 1995 and Time was still being recorded. Bekka was there and Billy was in the band and they closed with Go Your Own Way. At that time, I never thought I would hear that song live ever again.

AnthonyMI 05-18-2020 04:38 PM

the Eagles has Hell Freezes Over in 1994 and it rolled over into 1995 successes. No doubt Mick was counting zeros as soon as he saw there was a market for old 70's bands. Around 1996 the 20th anniversary of Rumors was coming up and Vh1 started filming interviews for Classic Albums. Lindsey was busy with Tom Petty working on the She's All That soundtrack and his album with Christine. Stevie had just come down off of Klonapin but was as big as a house. She spent 1995 and 96 slimming down and testing her voice at the festivals. A reunion was coming. there just needed to be meetings with all the managers and the record companies. A little nip and tuck here, an injection of filler there.

UnwindedDreams 05-18-2020 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyMI (Post 1258118)
Lindsey was busy with Tom Petty working on the She's All That soundtrack and his album with Christine.

Did Lindsey contribute to a Petty/HB studio album too? Echo maybe?

SteveMacD 05-18-2020 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicks Fan (Post 1258060)
Her last tour was successful but I think having the Pretenders along helped a great deal. It amounted to a tour similar to the ones being put on with bands like Def Leppard and Journey or Chicago and REO Speedwagon, Heart with Sheryl Crow and Elle Goulding or Steve Winwood and Santanna etc. You get two groups of fans buying tickets.

Except that they were playing arenas, not state fairs or small amphitheaters.

Hypothetical. Stevie plays a 20,000 arena show thatís half full and only half the crowd is there to see Stevie. Thatís 5000 people paying to see Stevie. LBCM headline a 4000 seat arena down the road thatís 3/4 full. Thatís 3000 people for 2/3 of Fleetwood Macís vocalists.

Thatís the reality with Fleetwood Mac.

Nicks Fan 05-18-2020 11:47 PM

My point is that many acts including SN can only fill an arena if they have an act from classic rock era opening up. When they go it alone they play ampitheaters, Casinos, theaters state fairs. People have tried to argue with me on social media that SN can fill an arena on her name alone these days and I say she can't. There is no question she still sells tickets but if she did a tour next year with say Vanessa Carleton or Michael Grimm opening she wouldn't be playing arenas. She would need a strong opening act like The Pretenders to fill up the arenas. Look at her 2011 and 2012 tour. She played the 5,000 seat Fox Theater in Detroit, The Seneca Falls Casino in Niagara Falls NY, one of the Casinos in OK. Not all but most of the big USA venues she played were opening up for Rod and not headlining herself. If I am not correct most of her tours have been in outdoor sheds and not primarily in arena's. In Toronto the first time she played an arena there was in 2011 opening up for Rod and then her 24 Karat tour brought her back to the same venue. Every other time she has played the CNE, RBC Budweiser Stage, or the old Kingwoods Music Theater an outdoor venue at Canada's Wonderland.

Both her and Lindsey played the 5,000 seat Casino Rama in Rama Ontario. She in 2007 and 2008 and he in 2012.

Nicks Fan 05-18-2020 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams (Post 1258120)
Did Lindsey contribute to a Petty/HB studio album too? Echo maybe?

He played on the Last DJ track "The Man Who Loved Women"

SteveMacD 05-19-2020 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams (Post 1258120)
Did Lindsey contribute to a Petty/HB studio album too? Echo maybe?

Heís all over ďWalls.Ē

SteveMacD 05-19-2020 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicks Fan (Post 1258128)
People have tried to argue with me on social media that SN can fill an arena on her name alone these days and I say she can't.

Completely agree, there.

I’m no longer convinced that Fleetwood Mac, even if Lindsey was there, could be viable beyond the small shed/casino circuit without Stevie, but she’s absolutely not bigger than the band if she’s in it.

jbrownsjr 06-05-2020 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveMacD (Post 1258133)
Completely agree, there.

Iím no longer convinced that Fleetwood Mac, even if Lindsey was there, could be viable beyond the small shed/casino circuit without Stevie, but sheís absolutely not bigger than the band if sheís in it.

I agree with this. I might add that she might be able to sell well by herself, but charge lower if not for Pretenders etc.

Macfan4life 06-05-2020 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr (Post 1258412)
I agree with this. I might add that she might be able to sell well by herself, but charge lower if not for Pretenders etc.

I disagree. When the Pretenders tour alone, they play small theaters and they are barely full. They are fantastic but don't have such a huge concert lure. Very similar to Christine and Lindsey. It was Chrissy herself who stated during their tour "no one comes to see us, this is Stevie's show.'
Stevie's 24k Gold tour was insanely popular. My belief was just like yours. I thought she could no longer fill arenas. The tour was extended twice. She never had so many sold out shows in her career.
If Stevie was not with the Mac, they would have played to less than half the audience. 2/3 of the Mac's singers could not even fill small theaters.
I know it eats people up to admit it but Stevie fills arenas. So much so, that Mick destroyed the legacy of the band to fire Lindsey. He chose sold out arenas and money over legacy.
If Stevie was to announce a solo tour with no opening act, she would get pretty much the attendance as this current Mac line up. Its been that way for quite a while. The only tour was On With The Show because there was a huge demand for tickets because of Christine reuniting with the band.

In 1986 Stevie filled arenas even double backing to cities because of sold out shows
In 1987 The Mac with Stevie filled about the same amount of arenas

1989 Stevie filled arenas with a mildly successful album and tour
1990 The mac played with less people in mostly full arenas

1997 The Dance sold out - no comparison
1998 Enchanted tour - not as big as the Dance but Stevie fills arenas again after dismal Street Angel tour

Unleashed tour was very successful and played to mostly full arenas
On With the Show - sold out

24K Gold - full arenas, sold out shows, extended twice. Would not stop.


Long story short, she has always packed the house equal to Mac tours except 1994 but the Mac was playing night clubs at that time

Its sad but true, most people who go to Mac shows are there for Stevie. I remember skipping school in 1987 to wait in line for Tango tickets. It was a huge line and almost everyone in line was commenting they were only there to see Stevie. No one cares about Christine. Not that Funny was a waste of concert time, blah blah blah
I don't like this fact but everyone knows it especially Mick.

mitzo 06-05-2020 03:41 PM

Stevie made them all wildly popular on a long term basis and extremely wealthy, including Lindsey.

SteveMacD 06-05-2020 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfan4life (Post 1258415)
I know it eats people up to admit it but Stevie fills arenas. So much so, that Mick destroyed the legacy of the band to fire Lindsey. He chose sold out arenas and money over legacy.

Fleetwood Macís legacy is being rockís greatest soap opera. The first three guitarist go nuts, cancelled tours, revolving door of personnel, ex-manager puts out a fake band, affairs, breakups/divorce, solo careers, creative difference, break up, make up, breakup again...

A happy ending with the classic lineup would be anticlimactic for the Fleetwood Mac story.

Quote:

The only tour was On With The Show because there was a huge demand for tickets because of Christine reuniting with the band.
....
Its sad but true, most people who go to Mac shows are there for Stevie. I remember skipping school in 1987 to wait in line for Tango tickets. It was a huge line and almost everyone in line was commenting they were only there to see Stevie. No one cares about Christine.
Those were the most notable, but Christine had a #4 and #14 hits in 1987. And, the last two Fleetwood Mac tours did better in terms of attendance and being extended than the two tours that preceded them.

A Stevie solo show will do better than a Fleetwood Mac show without Stevie, but a Fleetwood Mac show with Stevie will do better than a Stevie solo show. And, Fleetwood Mac does better when Christine is in the band than not, so obviously people do care, at least in the context of Fleetwood Mac. [/QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitzo (Post 1258416)
Stevie made them all wildly popular on a long term basis and extremely wealthy, including Lindsey.

To a point. Christine had almost as many hits overall as Stevie, solo or Mac, and Christine had most of the bandís Top 40 singles. Also, Christine had Top 5 hits on ďMirageĒ and TITN, while Stevie didnít crack the Top 10, so her solo popularity didnít translate into successful Fleetwood Mac singles, especially considering all three of her solo albums up to TITN had Top 5 singles.

Stevie is obviously the most popular member, but people understand the difference. There is a context with Fleetwood Mac that draws in more people.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:25 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
© 1995-2003 Martin and Lisa Adelson, All Rights Reserved