who else thinks Stevie is the best songwriter in the group?
 

She most certainly is in my opinion, Lindsey is better at writing the long epics but that doesn't make the song better..not even close.

Beautiful Child is better than anything he's made imo.

I'm a long-time Stevie fan, so I think I'm way too prejudiced to reply to this question, but I will anyway! Yes, I do think she's the best songwriter in the group. We know she's the most prolific. She, by her own admission, is not the best musician, and I think Lindsey can safely lay claim to that title.

They are BOTH poets...
 

Stevie writes in a mystical, airy-fairy (not a diss, I love her airy-fairy lyrics!!) kind of way...while Lindsey writes in a more realistic way. She is TOTAL fantasy and he is TOTAL real world. LOL They are BOTH poets in different ways. Stevie writes more complicated lyrics, and Lindsey's are simpler. Love em both! There are instances where Lindsey's lyrics are stronger and vice versa for Stevie. I respond to music moreso than lyrics, but when a lyric touches my soul....it's AWESOME!! :D

I'd say Stevie is the most natural songwriter in the group. And she's constantly writing, so I guess that gives her points there. But Lindsey has certainly made it into his own art form, especially the way he toils and tries to make everything so perfect. So I'd like to vote them both as best, if that's possible! :laugh:

Stevie, without a doubt. That is her true talent. She has a way of writing those types of songs where you say "damn, if I was able to write songs, that is exactly how I would want to do it". Her lyrics connect with people in a way that is never forgotten.

Lindsey's true talent is his guitar playing, along with his skills in arranging music and producing these awesome songs.

Lindsey imo. He's the one with the vision that turns (sometimes) bland demos into something really great.

I prefer Stevies lyrics on certain songs though.

I prefer...
 

Stevie, Lindsey & Christine equally in FM...I just can't put one over another in the songwriting catergory, Just wouldnt be fair IMO, Brian J.

I wouldn't want to use the word "best," as I think it's unfair to all of the songwriters in Fleetwood Mac, including Stevie, to put any one above the others.
They're all amazing songwriters in their own right, and they've all written songs that really affect me.

But Stevie has definitely contributed the largest amount of songs that deeply touch me and inspire me.

What JS and Brian J said.
 

Stevie is not the best writer in the group IMO, because they're so varied. I mean, if you took the perspective of chart-topping, perfect pop you'd go with Christine, but then Stevie comes up with mysterioso gems like Rhiannon and Dreams that eclipse everyday pop. And Lindsey in the end has written the stuff most relevant and inspiring to me personally, so... take your pic basically.

That's the great thing about FM - they're the lazy man's band! You don't have to look far beynd their catalogue to find something to suit your tastes. :nod:

As far as for hautning me and capturing a dark feeling, Stevie is it. But, LB (days when the rain and the son where gone black as night - agony has torn at my hert so long) and esp. CM (sweet wonderful you!!!) are a very very close second!!!!

For me, Stevie is easily the strongest writer of the three. I don't think she has written anything as awful as "Sugar Daddy" or "Eyes of the World." She doesn't even come close to that. In reality, I like all of Stevie's FM songs. Christine can be very bland and boring, and Lindsey is sometimes just too wierd. Stevie is it for me.

Dan

I don't know; I can't say Stevie over Lindsey or Lindey over Stevie. Emotionally, Stevie ha been the most inspirational, but that doesn't make her better. Lindsey has a wit to him, an urgency, and a vulnerablility that you can see in his music. I love both equally!

Oi! Eyes Of The World sounds f'n great live!

Again... Lindsey is the one that takes a lot of the songs and makes them great.

Out Of The Cradle imo, is as good as any Mac album.

Well,in terms of Stevie and Linds,it is like comparing apples and oranges.They do not write in the same context at ALL. Stevie could never have written "Come",and there is no way Linds could have written,say,"Illume".Linds is more straighforward,but at the same time more adventurous,whereas Stevie is more "lala land" and emotional..she sees things through a very unique set of eyes.Like Linds recently said,sometimes he doesn't know what the hell she is talking about :) Anyway,they kinda cancel out each others quirks and come up with great stuff...

Ditto to what Johnny Stew said. :D


~Angela~

I'm surprised to see so few mention Christine. I actually enjoy her writing contributions the most, followed by Lindsay and Stevie last. Among Christine's many excellent songs are - Spare Me a Little of Your Love, Why, Come a Little Bit Closer, Over My Head, Warm Ways, Don't Stop, Songbird, Over & Over, Everywhere, Little Lies, Skies the Limit...

To me she is a large part of the soul of Fleetwood Mac having been the longest standing member other than John and Mick. She contributed vocals and songwriting beginning with the album Kiln House in 1970. While not credited, her vocals are heard on "Station Man" the song I first heard that led me to become a lifelong Mac fan. Christine's writing is down to earth, grounded and sweet. Her voice has also been consistent in contrast to Stevie's. Her vocals provided an excellent counter-balance to both Lindsay and Stevie. I like all of their writng of course. Say You Will is a decent album, but I am finding myself missing Christine's contributions to the band.

Christine is great and I love a lot of her songs. The problem is it is very hard for me to connect with her on the same emotional level that I can connect with Stevie and Lindsey. To me, a lot of Christine's songs seem very contrived and lightweight. That's not to say that I wouldn't mind a few of her contributions on Say You Will though, but more for the sake of nostalgia I think.

For beautiful poetry-Stevie, hands down-most of the songs I really relate to are the ones to Stevie's lyrics

For beautiful music and arrangements-Lindsey

For beautiful music-Christine, esp the Tusk album

Stevie never sounds better than when Lindsey arranges and produces her songs, IMHO. He seems to know what to do with the music to enhance the lyrics.

I have to take issue with the original poster's reference to Lindsey's "long epics." Would those be "Sara," "Beautiful Child," "Beauty and The Beast," "Has Anyone Ever Written Anything for You?" Oh, no, wait a minute, those are Stevie songs. Good songs, mind you, but more deserving of the "long epic" definition, don't you think? Lindsey has perhaps writen four or five songs out of his whole catalog that are longer than 4 minutes and 20 seconds. By far, most of them clock in at under four minutes.

That was just to set the record straight on that.

As for the best songwriter, that is almost a question with no real answer. What is best? Are you just looking at the lyrics? I submit to you that's not all a song is about. If you're judging the song based on lyrics alone you're missing a lot of it.

So, taking lyrics, arrangement, melody and chord progression into consideration, my vote has to go for Lindsey. If you look at Stevie's and Lindsey's earlier stuff with Fleetwood Mac, I would give her the upper hand in lyrics. But that has changed in recent times. While I can appreciate the catchiness of something like "Say You Will," I can also see the lyrics don't come even close to the brilliance of "Rhiannon" or "Sara." The verses have two chords and the melody is almost non-existent. The song really picks up energy on the chorus. Whereas if you look at "Red Rover," for instance, you get the whole package -- amazing lyrics, a great, haunting melody and guitar playing that just blows you away.

I would say that Christine is the best writer in the band. I've just always connected with her songs the most. And, she also wrote the most hits. There are too many to mention here, but I can't think of a single one of her songs that I don't like. After Christine, I would say my favorites would be Bob Welch, Lindsey, Peter Green & Stevie in that order.

Ahh, but there's beauty in simplicity. ;)

I definitely agree that Lindsey's songwriting (lyrically) has improved over the years. I find his songs much more affecting now.
But in my very humble opinion, Stevie's songwriting has also improved over the years. As much as I love songs like "Rhiannon," et al., I find the songs she's written in recent years to be far more engaging and emotionally compelling.

I think both Buckingham & Nicks are at the top of their game now... which is what makes me even more excited about the prospect of future collaborations between the two. :D

So true, but not always.

Now, now... we can't have it both ways.

*smiles*

"I am what I am, I am what am, I am what am . . . a Family Man (Family Man) . . ." :] :]

Lindsey is not bad either. He has made some good songs...but unlike Stevie, Im listening to his voice and guitar playing more than the words. With Stevie, I end up being drawn to her lyrics eventually.

MAybe shes a smidgeon better, but she concentrates on that while Lindsey dabbles in EVERYTHING.

Of course we can. You don't believe in absolutes, do you Johnny?

Of course I don't.

But I also don't believe in double-standards, and I see a lot of them around here.

Hmmm... Are you accusing me of double standards with your "around here" comment? Come right out and say it.

Yes, I definitely feel that there are double-standards in many of the comments you make in regards to Lindsey and Stevie.
What's good for the goose is apparently not good for the gander, and it often leaves me scratching my head trying to figure out why that should be so.

But I said "around here," because you're not the only one who does it, and I wasn't trying to single you out.

And, here I thought he was talking about ME!


:blob2:

What exactly is the double standard?

I said this: "The verses have two chords and the melody is almost non-existent. The song really picks up energy on the chorus."

You countered the first half of my statement by throwing back at me something I said in another thread long ago: "There is beauty in simplicity." A statement, which by the way, does not say "all simple things are beautiful," unless you REALLY want to interpret it that way.

I don't remember calling "Say You Will" simple or even suggesting there was no beauty in it. In fact, I made a point to say the song picks up energy on the chorus. I have also said several times I like the song.

So what exactly do you find so offensive about that? Your defensiveness of all things Stevie gets a little tiring, frankly. You don't even know how do discern between disparaging remarks and what I did here -- balanced criticism.

I get it: You think Stevie is the cat's meow. Now, can we get off the defensiveness and discuss an issue based on the merits of the topic?

My initial response to you ("ah, but there's beauty in simplicity") was meant as a friendly nod to your previous statements, only because you seemed to be using the simplistic nature of "Say You Will's" structure and lyrics as an example that Stevie's current songwriting doesn't live up to what she's written in the past.

Using your statements about "Family Man" as an example, my intention was only to remind you that a song which is not necessarily overly complex in structure or even lyrically, is not a good example that the songwriter has lost their touch.

Stevie set out to write an upbeat, catchy song, in the vein of many of Christine's most popular tunes... and I think she did an excellent job of that, while putting her own unique stamp on it.

Am I saying it's in the league with the likes of "Rhiannon" and "Sara"? No, I'm not.
"Say You Will" is in a league all of its own, but I do think it's an excellent example of how much Stevie's talents have expanded over the years.
She can write an edgy, thought-provoking, stream of consciousness song like "Illume," on one end of the spectrum, and a fun, sing-songy tune like "Say You Will," on the other... while deftly covering all points in between.

If I "defend" Stevie, it's only because so many people seem to still want her to write the way she was writing back in 1976.
I think what she's writing here and now is far more interesting than what she wrote decades ago, because she has matured as a songwriter... just as you feel Lindsey's talents have advanced beyond even classics such as "Go Your Own Way," and "I'm So Afraid."

You're one of Lindsey's biggest cheerleaders... you love the music he has written throughout his career, and you take the time to point out what makes his songs so great... even when it's a song most others dislike, or are using as an example that he "doesn't write as well as Stevie."
So I don't see what's so different between you and I there. :)

I feel that Stevie should be allowed to write a song such as "Say You Will" without it being cited as an example of how she doesn't write like she used to, when Lindsey can be praised and exalted for writing a song such as "Family Man" (which, by the way, I happen to like considerably)... and that is where I have trouble seeing the "balanced criticism."

From where I'm sitting, the real criticism only seems to come into play when it involves one of Stevie's songs (and any real praise that's given is usually for the production and/or arrangement, and not really for her lyrics at all), and that gets a little tiring to me.

Funny thing is, I didn't even mean to get into the middle of this debate once again. The sole intention behind my initial response, was to give a friendly reminder that, just as it's unfair to use "Family Man" as an example that Lindsey doesn't write as well as Stevie, using the simplistic nature of "Say You Will" as an example that Stevie has lost her touch, is also unfair.

I guess my comments just didn't come off as light-heartedly as I originally intended, and unfortunately it dissolved from there.
I gotta learn to use more of these smilies.

At any rate... since we're both tired of this merry-go-round that we so often seem to find ourselves on, perhaps we should find a new topic for debate.

Wanna discuss who was more talented, Dave Walker or Bekka Bramlett? :D :laugh:

I forgot to mention this in my post above, and felt I should add it... the reference to "Say You Will" as being "simplistic" was based on your comment, "the verses have two chords and the melody is almost non-existent."

I felt that that was what your comments boiled down to, so that's what my response was in regards to.

I just wanted to clear that up, because I know you mentioned that you never called the song "simple," and I didn't want to seem as if I were putting words into your mouth.
That the song was "simplistic," was my take on your "two chords/non-existent melody" statement. :)

well, I'm not one to beat around the bush(ok, I am:p ) but I really do feel that Stevie is a far more accomplished writer than Lindsey.

Say you will may be simple but as a songwriter myself, I know that someone that can do the pop song and the deeper songs, the more complicated songs..that's the real deal right there.

I really don't think any of fleetwood Mac are as good in the writing department as they once were. If not as good..then not as prolific, they obvious have been sitting on many of the SYW songs for years, they either are writing one song a year when it comes to them or writing a crap load of crap, I prefer to think the first where stevie is concerned.

I find some of Lindseys songs on SYW to be part two or part three to his past and while I appreciate the new things that were tried, I can't help but feel a lot of it is old hat.

the annoying thing about SYW is that it gives you the publishing date only, I'd love to know when these songs were copywrited, I know some must date back decades. Judging on when Everybody Finds out was done..Stevie is still on top of the mac writing game.

Maybe I can help to clear that up a little.

To the best of my knowledge, Lindsey's songs were all written between 1994-2001 as he worked on 'Gift Of Screws.'

"Say Goodbye" was written during, or sometime shortly after, the 'Dance' tour in 1997, and "What's The World Coming To" is his most recent composition on the album, written around 2001.
Unfortunately I don't know anything more concrete in regards to when the other songs were written.

Stevie's "Goodbye Baby" was written around 1976, and "Smile At You," around 1978.
"Running Through The Garden" was first published in 1992, though educated guesses place it as having been written around 1985.

"Thrown Down" and "Not Make Believe" were written somewhere between 1997-2000.

And finally, "Say You Will," "Destiny Rules," "Silver Girl," and "Everybody Finds Out" are the most recent songs on the entire album, having been written in December 2001/January 2002.

Sorry for such broad dates on some of these, but those are the closest estimations.

Johnny Stew...
 

For the sake of pedantry (what are fans for after all? ;) ) I'm pretty sure Say Goodbye was written around 1990 after he left TITN.

I was pretty sure he said in a recent interview that it was written about Stevie, around the time of 'The Dance.'

But with the bulk of articles and interviews floating around right now, I can't remember exactly where I read it.

You could be right though! :)

I think there were periods when Lindsey was the stronger writer most obviously the early 90s OOTC is his best work. during this time due to the Klonopin, Stevie had hit her writing bottom.However after she got off the Klonopin I have to hand it back to Stevie as the best writer of the two.

Hmm I'm pretty sure I read in that first big Lindsey interview from oneof the Guitar mags (GP?) that Say Goodbye was written about Stevie but way back after Tango. Can I be bothered to double check? Nup! :laugh:

Johnny, let's try something new in the future. Look at my statement on the whole. First I mention the song's undeniable catchiness, then I mention the two-chord monotonal quality of the verses. Then I said the chorus has energy. Not once did I say or imply it was a bad song. There's nothing wrong with simplicity when it is done right. At best my "two-chord" statement was intentionally ambiguous, not negative. Methinks that unless I come right out and gush with unbridled enthusiasm about anything Stevie, you're going to have a reason to get defensive. With all due respect, that's just silly.

Let's just move on.