Fleetwood Mac Fan Club and Presale FAQ
 

Let's get some question listed that we would like included in this FAQ. Once completed it can serve as an informational section for those who are considering joining, it can bring people (including FM management) up to speed on what has happened, or perhaps it could be used for those who are seeking refunds. I can continuously edit this first message as the FAQ becomes more and more complete. I need everyone's help though in putting it together-- this can be in the contribution of questions and answers. I know that for many this is an emotionally charged issue but just the facts here! If there is anything at all that we are unsure of then it should clearly be indicated as such. Here are a couple of initial questions...please add as many to the list as you want. If you want to start writing out answers, that would be cool too. If you see answers you do not think are completely accurate or complete, tell us too!

*****

Questions

1. When was the fanclub started? [ Answer ]
   
2. How much does it cost? [ Answer ]
   
3. What was included with membership? [ Answer ]
   
4. What kind of seats were available at the presales? [ Answer ]
   
5. What are my chances of getting front row seats? [ Answer ]
   
6. What does the term "seats in the best 20% of the house" mean? [ Answer ]
   
7. The fanclub says many tickets in the block of seats put away for its members will be in rows 1-30. How realistic are my chances of being offered seats in those rows? [ Answer ]
   
8. The fanclub says that no one except VIPS and Season Ticket Holders will have access to any seats in an arena before the fanclub members - is this true? [ Answer ]
   
9. The fanclub says if the seats in the fanclub block sellout, the fanclub members will "rollover" into the rest of the seats in the venue and will be offered the best seats first. [ Answer ]
   
10. I've seen the term "slow rollout" being used, what does the term mean? [ Answer ]
    
11. I've seen the term "top selldown" being used, what does the term mean? [ Answer ]
    
12. I see lots of great seats in the first 30 rows available on Ebay and through ticket brokers, where did they get these seats? [ Answer ]
    
13. Will the fanclub notify me of media & print appearances by bandmembers during the tour? [ Answer ]
    
14. Do Lindsey & Stevie have any involvement in the fanclub? [ Answer ]
    
15. Does the fanclub offer any discounted merchandise & cds to its members? [ Answer ]
    
16. Are fans satisfied with the way the fanclub is being run? [ Answer ]
    
17. Is there any one on one communication between the fanclub management and its members. What happens if I have a problem, is there someone I can talk to or email who will answer my questions? [ Answer ]
    
18. Are refunds available from the fanclub? [ Answer ]
    
19. What are venue presales and how can I get access to them? What types of seats are offered at these sales? [ Answer ]
    
20. Can I ask Lindsey or Stevie a question through the fanclub? Do they read the message board on Mick's site? [ Answer ]
    
21. What happens if my password does not work on the day of my presale, is there someone who I can contact and what help and assistance can I expect from them? [ Answer ]
    
22. What happens if I jump the gun at the presale on Ticketmaster before the time specified? [ Answer ]
    
23. The fanclub membership specifies 20 tickets for each member for this "leg" of the tour, what does the term "leg" mean and how will this effect future tours for this cd? [ Answer ]
    
24. Will the fanclub notify me if additional dates are added to my city or to the tour? [ Answer ]
    
25. Many fanclubs are addressing the problem of scalpers buying up the best seats, what is the Fleetwood Mac fanclub doing to protect the best seats from scalpers and enusuring that its members get access to them first? [ Answer ]
    
26. Does the FM Fanclub and FM Official Site have any connection or contact with this site or other fan sites? [ Answer ]
    
27. What happens if my password does not work on the day of the presale and I am unable to buy tickets, can the fanclub provide me with seats to make up for the error, or will they refund my membership dues? [ Answer ]
    
28. Does my FM Fanclub Membership also give me access to Mick Fleetwood's Site and his message board? [ Answer ]
    
29. Is the fanclub offering any special merchandise for its members and will that merchandise be available to the general public if I don't join the fanclub? [ Answer ]
    
30. Is the fanclub open to non US residents? [ Answer ]
    
31. What will the overseas fans be offered through the fanclub, will we have presales if they tour in our country? [ Answer ]
    
32. What is the cost to renew my membership next year? [ Answer ]
    
33. Will I be able to buy tour merchandise through the fanclub if I can't attend a concert? [ Answer ]
    
34. Do Stevie and Lindsey have their own fanclub that I can join? [ Answer ]
    
35. Will fanclub members get to meet the bandmembers before or after their shows? I belong to some other artists fanclubs and this happens at some shows, are there any plans for this if I join the FM fanclub? [ Answer ]
    

Answers

1. In December 2002, there was a lot of discussion for a Mick Fleetwood Fan Club. Annual membership fees were reportedly going to cost up to $90. Members were to receive a CD from Mick's band Mojo (which was to be released to the public at a later date), 3-D glasses to see exclusive content on mickfleetwood.com, an autographed photo, and discounts from merchandise purchased through his website. This idea apparently has at least been temporarily suspended as the Official Fleetwood Mac fan club has been started. Memberships for this began selling the week of February 10, 2003. [ Return to Top ]

   
   

2. Initially the Fleetwood Mac fan club was $59.95 for a one-year membership. The dues were raised to $79.95 just prior to the first concert presale (March 13th). AOL members may be able to still purchase membership for $59.95 (confirmation or denial of this would be appreciated) [ Return to Top ]

   
   
   

3. The following is a direct quote from Fleetwood Mac.com as to the benefits of becoming a member of the fanclub:
   
   Quote:

   ADVANCE NEWS & CONCERT NOTIFICATION Advance e-mail notification of Fleetwood Mac Concerts and Special Member-Only News! As a member you’ll receive periodic e-mails notifying you of concert venues and dates with instructions on how to purchase advance tickets. These e-mails will also often contain information to keep you up to date on news about Fleetwood Mac. ADVANCE TICKET PURCHASE OPTIONS FOR FAN CLUB MEMBERS – You’ll Create Your Private Membership USER NAME as soon as you join. Your User Name allows you to purchase up to 4 tickets PER CONCERT for most venues. We’ve set aside Preferred Seating in Special Fan Club Seating Rows generally located within the BEST 20% of floor seating at most venues! Members will generally receive 2 Day Advance Purchasing before the general public can order tickets! You’ll link to Ticketmaster right through the Fan Club Site and purchase at regular rates direct through Ticketmaster! Seat selection for Fan Club Members is based on Fan Club Member demand and availability at each concert and every Member has an equal chance of getting exquisite seats. Even if a show you’re trying to get tickets for has Fan Club Reserve Seating sold out when you log on for tickets, you’re still able to select from the Club's reserved public ticket block BEFORE the block goes on sale to the general public! YOU’RE VIRTUALLY GUARANTEED SEATING AS A FAN CLUB MEMBER! Note - Most venues offer Advance Ticket Purchasing and Special Fan Seating. Some restrictions apply. INSIDER NEWS Log onto the Fleetwood Mac Fan Club and check out the Insider News area for the most detailed news and information available straight from Fleetwood Mac! AUDIO & VIDEO & PHOTO EXCLUSIVES This area just rocks! Exclusive audio and video files from the Band Members at home and from the road make this the coolest part of the Fan Club! Everything from audio or video backstage after a show to interviews on the plane to concert shots will be produced and electronically sent to us for fast posting by the road team “living with the Mac”. We’ve trained them and armed them with cameras and mic’s. Watch these pages and you’ll be as close as you can get to the REAL Fleetwood Mac Story! Can’t wait? Start right now with a special tour of the studio where the new album “Say You Will” was recorded! This area includes a narrated tour of the studio’s rooms by Mick along with a couple of “virtual rooms” where you can navigate around the room and see everything at your own pace

   In order to join the fanclub, it was necessary to agree to the following disclaimer:
   
   Quote:

   "Club Membership does not promise or offer any specific seating or preferential treatment other than as described on the “Club Info” page at this site. You agree to abide by all rules set forth on the Member portion of the site and in any Member communication. Membership is valid for one full year from date of purchase and is non-refundable. You understand that you may not get either access to a specific concert, access to Fan Seating Blocks in any specific concert or any seating at a specific concert based on demand and availability from the venues. You understand that systems the Club uses may fail during critical times and you agree to accept the Club’s final determination on any Club related issues arising from internet or software/hardware failure."

   [ Return to Top ]
   
4. Answer pending.
   
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27. Answer pending.
    
28. Registration on Mick Fleetwood's message board is free. It is not necessary to join the Fleetwood Mac fanclub to post. [ Return to Top ]

    
    

29. Answer pending.
    
30. Answer pending.
    
31. Answer pending.
    
32. Answer pending.
    
33. Answer pending.
    
34. Answer pending.
    
35. Answer pending.
    

*****

Again as I posted in my other thread though, The Penguin and The Ledge are not associated with or responsible in any way for the fan club. As this is an issue that affects so many of our members though, I think it is appropriate to address it here.

- Marty

Re: Fleetwood Mac Fan Club and Presale FAQ
 

Here's some answers, Marty:

1. --- Don't know the date but it was in January, I believe.
2. It was $59.95, then it was upped to $79.95
3. No merch or anything! Just the pre-sale, a few crappy videos (more are promised), and some lousy question and answers.
4. Supposedly the best 20%, rows 1-30 in most venues.
5. NOPE! All inquiries to refunds have been ignored by Mr. Jonathan Todd, Pres. and CEO of SabreMark, Inc., AKA "The Knight"

Hope this helps! :)

Question: Can anyone confirm that this is what was known as a "top down" presale?

the "odds"
 

Chances of FRONT ROW seats aside...

Even if they get the "benefit of the doubt" legally under this "you have a CHANCE of getting best 20% seats etc.". What I wonder is if it ever said in the terms etc. what the ODDS were/are in this "chance" you would get a seat in the "best 20%..." etc. as I assume by the same token, lottery tickets etc. (albeit in VERY small print) need to state the very slim odds of winning on those somewhere (maybe on the back side? I don't buy those myself so I wouldn't know but that would seem rather academic).

Maybe I'm wrong though but I think if many fans had the chance of seeing what the slim odds were, they may have thought twice about joining (if there were any odds at all in the first place). Just a thought. :)

So, since I wasn't in the FC I don't know so this is why I ask, does anyone know if it said the odds anywhere in the FC terms?

John

Re: the "odds"
 

It doesn't matter whether or not they legally worded their terms correctly, John. If a company has (blantantly) taken unfair advantage of consumers, regardless of whether it stayed within the law or not, under Californian law it can and will be heavily investigated and legal proceedings may proceed if there are enough complaints/the complaint(s) is(are) serious enough. Read my post in the "Banned" thread, here's a link:

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showth...3331#post83329

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

seteca
 

OK fair enough and I agree, just that I assume it would have to be PROOVED that they were "blatantly being unfair (etc.)" and I thought if they didn't word something right then that might be the way to "nail 'em" on that. :)

I did see your other thread, thanks for that, I didn't know that so that looks good that things may get settled in some way so I hope you all get what you should, I'll keep my eye on these threads to see what happens. :)

John

Ok Marty....I'll give you what I know or have heard and seen.

#2)cost $59.95 and now up to $79.95 (there was some kind of special deal for AOL members who got it $20 cheaper at some point early on)
#4)worse seats were available to clubmembers than those in the venue presales AND those of the general public. This was confirmed by many who saw better seats pop up for the other sales than their fanclub sales
#8)UNTRUE...I personally and NOT a VIP or season ticket holder. I was able to purchase two great floor seats in Philly on the day of the venue presale just by reading the password in a post here on the Ledge. My tickets are currently in hand and ready to be used at the show. ANYBODY and their brother could have bought tickets from the venue presale.
#9)a lie...If that was so we would not have been offered the same bad seats in the back over and over again. When the public ticket sales went up over the weekend better seats were offered than the supposed "rollover into the rest of the seats"
#10)"slow rollout" means that Ticketmaster or tickets.com somehow were totally unaware that it was time to put the "special fanclub" seats on sale. Therefore they were considered "rolled out slowly to the members".
#11)"top selldown" means the seats in a venue that would traditionally be the last ones sold or the ones that people would throw back over and over if given the chance are the ones sold first. An illusion is created among those who are more apt to purchase at all costs (those online first, in line at counters first and on the phone first to buy tickets) that this is all that is left and that the house is selling out quickly. Thus an easy sale of a bad ticket and later the good seats can go on sale and will sell anyway due to their high quality. A few good seats are thrown into the mix of a "top selldown" top create an illusion of a quick sellout.
#13)Sure will...after you read about it on the Ledge or Nicksfix first
#14)Unknown...Stevie has apparently answered some questions posed to her by fanclub members in the members only area, but Lindsey and John have not as of this date
#15)No discount on anything and no offer of anything other than the new CD which is available to anybody who visits the site
#16)yes and no..predominately no
#17)you may email but there are no fans currently reporting any email responses to questions. There are only a select few "helpful hands" who are in direct contact with the Knight who speak for him on occasion
#18)no refunds at this time...they are "working on something to make it up to us"
#19)venue presales are supposedly for VIPs and season ticketholders and are accessible by anyone with a password...that word was "dreams" for the first round of sales and anyone could use it and purchase some really good seats.
#21)you must contact Ticketmaster and try to get them to help you..if not, you were instructed to call the fanclub and leave a message for a return call
#22)you cannot jump the gun as Ticketmaster does not open up the ability to purchase tickets until the sale time starts (which ended up being much earlier than people were told....however, TM was publishing the times 48 hours in advance. The members were told that Ticketmaster was wrong, but it didn't matter)
#24)Yes....dates were given to us repeatedly although not lately
#25)nothing publicly known only that we are told they had something in place to stop it
#28)anyone can access Micks message board and site...all you have to do is register for free
#29)no special merchandise at this time
#30)open to everyone
#32)cost of membership is supposed to be $79.95 next year....LOL like anyone will renew! LOL!
#33)maybe...who knows
#35)nothing special planned at this time, although they did float the idea of paying $1000 for a special "meet and greet with the band" which would not surprise me to find that "the band" would end up being John and some of the backup singers

Thank you mbr33-- I'm going to pick this up again tomorrow night. Hopefully more people will work on this and add more and more details and questions in the meantime. I do have a question though-- actually on your first answer. Wasn't the price $59.95 for everyone initially? Any idea when it was raised to $79.95 (which I see it is now)?

Thank you. My goal again with this is to post legitimate questions and answer them as best we can in an objective manner to help clarify the whole situation.

- Marty

Hi Marty,

It was $59.95 for everyone initially, but there was some reports of a discount for AOL members in the early days. I am almost positive of this because people were ranting about it on Micks board. I do not have AOL, so perhaps someone who does may be able to fill us in on how that worked?

I joined on 3/4/03 for $59.95 and read that the price went up to $79.95 in the week prior to the first presale. It seems like I was one of the last to get the "special deal" LOL!

Isn't it obvious to everyone that if nothing was wrong, illegal, unethical, or whatever, with the fan club that Knight wouldn't be in a frenzy to delete everything negative related to that issue? From what I've heard he's deleting all the negative posts about the sale. He's banned people from the site who spoke out and tried to get direct answers to questions. This is something he's done all along even before the pre-sales when people tried to pin him down to specifics. People tried to find out how many memberships were sold. He wouldn't answer that. People asked him to specify where the fan block of seats were located. He tried to skirt this one but he did post messages that not only restated the best 20% line, he discouraged people from buying tickets in the venue pre-sales. First he said there are NO TICKET SALES happening on the dates mentioned for Venue Pre-sales. A day or two later he deleted that post and changed it to Venue Pre-sales would not affect the fan club block of tickets. He discouraged people from buying tickets at those sales. He also insisted that there would be a "roll over" to the best public seats left if the fan club seats sold out. This never happend. Many people posted that they were never offered anything but the worst areas of the floor and second level lodge seats during the pre-sale, while others said they got much better seats waiting for the public sale the next day. What happened to the "roll over?" Most of the messages and threads that verify this information have been deleted from Mick's board. Before I was banned (why I don't know?) I searched Knights past posts and noticed he deleted many of his own messages relating to the fan club. I say again, if nothing's wrong, why is he reacting this way?

He also posted on his "Knightly News" board every night leading up to the sale and emailed members multiple times in the days before the sale. He must have known what was coming and that they could not live up to the expectations of the presale because many of his threads were deleted the night before the sale.
He also posted that he would not be able to post as often over the next few days as the presale would "keep them all busy for a few days". I wonder what he would have had to do during the presales that would have kept him so busy?

Misleading statements
 

Since I am now banned (I think for writing and asking for a refund) I'm not sure what's still posted. I do know there were dozens of messages deleted the day of and after the pre-sale. How many people remember the post made by the Knight about the special edition cd that said IT DOES NOT EXIST! Is that one still there? He also posted in response to my thread about the venue pre-sales that NO SALES WERE TAKING PLACE on the days I mentioned about venue sales. That one came down in a hurry and was replaced by the one that said the Venue Sales would not affect our fan block of seats. What does that mean...not affect? It can mean anything he wants it to mean like the slipping in of the word "generally" in every post hyping the fan club seats as best 20% and Rows 1-30. To me generally means more than not. I took a poll at Mick's site which asked who was happy with the pre-sale. The results showed that less than 10%, only 4 out of 60 people who replied were happy. Is that thread even there anymore? It's probably been deleted. I know as soon as the results were posted the fan club sent out emails asking people to reply with good comments if they got good fan club seats. I guess he doesn't believe his own board. As far as what was said, even the language still showing on the fan club sign up page is misleading. It implies that you get better seats than the general public and people know that's not what happened. Fan club members were offered only the worst seats on the floor the majority of the time. To me, the disclaimer doesn't "generally" hold water.

Yes, there were psots to the effect of AOL'ers getting a $20 discount but it was never addressed offficialy. It wouldn't surprise me if the posts or entire thread were deleted.

What I'm wondering now is, when we received the email about the next presale it said they would be changing our passwords. I haven't received anything further. So tomorrow, if I decide to give it another shot with the ticket roulette, is my password gonna work? Or does asking for a refund and getting no response invalidate my membership? I have a feeling the sh*t is going to hit the fan all over again tomorrow. :nod:

misleading statements
 

Maybe somebody could explain this contradiction? These are direct quotes from a post by the Knight made on the day of the first fan club pre-sale. In one instance he is trying to justify the scarcity of good seats for anybody we know of by saying that the fan club has an extrememly large number of members we don't know anything about...

"Please note that the number of this board's members who are also Fan Club members is very small. There are thousands of fans who are Club members and have never been to this board."


Later in the same message he says the "value" of the fan club membership is in the scarcity of competition for fan club seats...

"The Fan Club value regarding tickets is that you're choosing with a very small group compared to the public onsale. While you may not get the seats you hoped for, the seats you get now should be better than what you would get if you went to the public onsale."

Which is it? Is the value of the membership based on the fact that you have a small group of fan club members, or is the reason you got lousy seats becasue there are thousands of fan club members competing for a handful of seats? It can't be both.

Presale FAQ????????
 

FYI : I copied this to assist us in determining
what to do about joining the F Mac Fan Club:

#18. "Notice: Our log in names are being up-loaded
into the Ticketing Agencies Software to become your
Password at the Pre-Sales...therefore...there are...
NO REFUNDS or CANCELLATIONS in membership as
we can't take your password out of our system!"

Johnathan Todd
Director Fan Club
````````````````````````````````````````````
Our Pittsburgh friends say they got "terrible" seats!

AOL members can join for $59.95 - they save $20 off the regular price. Still reduced - and probably will stay that way!!!

Thanks Marty
 

Marty, thanks so much for hosting this! Just so people can compare what happened between the fan club and the public sale, here are posts taken from Mick's site (now delted). This thread was copied exactly as posted and nothing is deleted. The comments are overwhelmingly on the side of fan club being not as good as public sale. Here's how it looked on Mick's chat.
Oh, the last part shows how I tried to log in after taking a poll and it showed I was banned.

Author Topic: publc onsale better than fan presale (Read 196 times)
machead
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publc onsale better than fan presale
« on: Today at 8:30am » [Quote] Quote [Modify] Modify

what a scam this fan club pre-sale was! iwas able to pull section 120 during public sale for the washington show. previously during the fm presale [the supposed best 20%] i was only able to get sec.105! my friend tried for the pittsburg show and was able to get 3rd row from the stage! gee,i guess we were'nt able to access the general public seats as promised after all. duh!
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MastaCow
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Re: publc onsale better than fan presale
« Reply #1 on: Today at 8:47am » [Quote] Quote [Modify] Modify

Same with me, and it even took me 10 minutes to get through . I got better seats, Sec 100-rowQ, than I was offered in the Fan Club Pre-sale.

« Last Edit: Today at 8:48am by MastaCow » Logged
fleetln
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Re: publc onsale better than fan presale
« Reply #2 on: Today at 8:48am » [Quote] Quote [Modify] Modify

Public sale is alot better than pre-sale. I was going to join the club, but I didnt and decided to wait and I got a section 3 row S I am only about 18 rows from the stage. Your better off waiting.
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naugrad
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Re: publc onsale better than fan presale
« Reply #3 on: Today at 9:32am » [Quote] Quote [Modify] Modify

Have to agree with you. I got pretty good seats at Pitt. for the pre-sale (Igloo Club - Row D) but decided to try for better during the public sale. Ended up in Row F, Section 2. That should be row 6 dead center by my calculation. As my buddy Mick says "You can't always get what you want but if you try sometimes you just might find you get what you need." All's well that ends well I guess. Anybody want to buy some Igloo Club seats? <http://www.mickfleetwood.com/public_...mages/wink.gif>
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OK-LANDSLIDE
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Re: publc onsale better than fan presale
« Reply #4 on: Today at 9:38am » [Quote] Quote [Modify] Modify


Agree completely!! OKC pulled up 9th row floor within 5 minutes after sale started. Nothing in this section even offered in so called fan club sale. What a freaking joke the fan club was, not to mention idiot I was!! I DEMAND REFUND FROM THE MONEY GRUBBING *******!!!! OK-LANDSLIDE
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tinarap
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Re: publc onsale better than fan presale
« Reply #5 on: Today at 9:43am » [Quote] Quote [Modify] Modify

can knight please address this subject. how did the public get all our presale fanclub seats that we paid 60-80 bucks to secure . hoW IS THIS POSSIBLE THAT THIS HAPPENED.
this is all the proof we needed altho we already knew by the tickets that we already paid for .
this club should be ASHAMED OF THEM SELVES AND REFUND EVERYONE AND SHUT THE HECK DOWN. YOU PPL WHO HAVE THE SECOND PRE SALE " DONT FRET" LOL, JUST WAIT FOR THE PUBLIC SALE.! AND IF YOU DO GET GOOD presale tickets even better, thats just more proof of how incompetent that fanclub was with the first presale!!!!!!!! good luck to all of you!
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creedsteve
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Re: publc onsale better than fan presale
« Reply #6 on: Today at 9:44am » [Quote] Quote [Modify] Modify
I got on right away for oklahoma city 5th row! so much for wasting the 60.00!
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Re: publc onsale better than fan presale
« Reply #7 on: Today at 9:47am » [Quote] Quote [Modify] Modify
on Today at 9:38am, OK-LANDSLIDE wrote:
Agree completely!! OKC pulled up 9th row floor within 5 minutes after sale started. Nothing in this section even offered in so called fan club sale. What a freaking joke the fan club was, not to mention idiot I was!! I DEMAND REFUND FROM THE MONEY GRUBBING *******!!!! OK-LANDSLIDE

Hey Tammy: I pulled up 10th row in FLR 3 and was going to purchase it but I maxed the time I had the ticket saved...
I did get FLR 5 Row A which I did purchase...Brian J.

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WelshWitchPMD
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Re: publc onsale better than fan presale
« Reply #8 on: Today at 10:02am » [Quote] Quote [Modify] Modify

Yeah I pulled up floor seats for both Cleveland and Worcester. They did not pull up for the pre-sale. I did not get them however, they were still far back. I did get pretty good seats for the second Worcester show.

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Pattie <http://www.mickfleetwood.com/public_...ges/smiley.gif>
estranged4life
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Re: publc onsale better than fan presale
« Reply #9 on: Today at 10:07am » [Quote] Quote [Modify] Modify
on Today at 10:02am, WelshWitchPMD wrote:
Yeah I pulled up floor seats for both Cleveland and Worcester. They did not pull up for the pre-sale. I did not get them however, they were still far back. I did get pretty good seats for the second Worcester show.


That's great ya did better on the second show Pattie...I did better myself, But I wasnt planning on buying another ticket <http://www.mickfleetwood.com/public_...es/shocked.gif> But I was just too curious and had to check it out...I wished I wouldnt have maxed the 5 minute time limit on the FLR 3 Row J ticket though, But now Im in a FLR 5 Row A seat which will suit me just fine <http://www.mickfleetwood.com/public_...ges/smiley.gif>
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mbr33
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Re: publc onsale better than fan presale
« Reply #10 on: Today at 11:19am » [Quote] Quote [Modify] Modify

I pulled up some seats in venues that I cannot attend (too far from home, do not want to pay for airfare, hotel, meals, etc) and was not to surprised to find better seats available there than what were on sale for our presale. Hopefully the trend continues tomorrow for AC and then on MOnday for Philly.
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OK-LANDSLIDE
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Re: publc onsale better than fan presale
« Reply #11 on: Today at 11:28am » [Quote] Quote [Modify] Modify

Hey Brian listen to this great one I pulled this morning. I later got offered 2 in FLR 5 Row A, so used to hitting button try again (start over whatever) I thought I hit continue and cancelled them out. What a dumbo I was on that one. Oh well wasn't meant to be, hope somebody descent got them and I am just afew rows behind them in FLR 5 anyway. But not do to fan club.

OK-LANDSLIDE <http://www.mickfleetwood.com/public_...ges/tongue.gif> <http://www.mickfleetwood.com/public_...ges/tongue.gif>
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Re:Public onsale better than fan presale
« Reply #12 on: Today at 11:40am » [Quote] Quote [Modify] Modify

on Today at 11:28am, OK-LANDSLIDE wrote:
Hey Brian listen to this great one I pulled this morning. I later got offered 2 in FLR 5 Row A, so used to hitting button try again (start over whatever) I thought I hit continue and cancelled them out. What a dumbo I was on that one. Oh well wasn't meant to be, hope somebody descent got them and I am just afew rows behind them in FLR 5 anyway. But not do to fan club. OK-LANDSLIDE <http://www.mickfleetwood.com/public_...ges/tongue.gif> <http://www.mickfleetwood.com/public_...ges/tongue.gif>
<http://www.mickfleetwood.com/public_...ges/smiley.gif> That's great Tammy. Ya could've been where I am now gonna sit...lol...But I could've been in the 10th row if I wouldnt have been busy not paying attention to the time <http://www.mickfleetwood.com/public_...mages/grin.gif>

Hey, I like Row A on FLR 5, Since FLR1-3 only have rows A-P which isn't much in the Ford Center's tiny floor area...Should be interesting to see how everything stagewise looks from that vantage point!!! Brian "Never for profit $$$$" J.
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Re: publc onsale better than fan presale
« Reply #13 on: Today at 11:46am » [Quote] Quote [Modify] Modify
SON OF A @#$#^%&%$#$$%!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was online THE FRIGGING SECOND PITTSBURGH TICKETS WENT ON SALE FOR FAN CLUB MEMBERS AND I WOUND UP BACK IN SECTION 5 ROW W!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, all involved in this sham....send me a fan club email and let me know how it feels down in H-E-L-L!

Stephanie
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Re: publc onsale better than fan presale
« Reply #14 on: Today at 3:59pm » [Quote] Quote [Modify] Modify

i'm right there with you all! i got better seats today (section 113 for the show in d.c.) than i did on thursday when the pre-sale happened. and the guy behind me in line got section 121 row d, which are actually better than mine.
i think we were all totally misled about which tickets would be available to us if we joined the fan club.
i'm so sorry that all of this happened . . . it kind of puts a damper on everything. this fan club pre-sale was just a total let-down.

~ lml
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I hope you don't think my post is a problem because Knight places a copyright logo on the message board. These comments are made in a public forum and are the property of the people who made them. I will certainly remove anything the authors ask to have removed, but I don't see how Mick's site people can claim any copyright. If you think it's necessary to remove this, I'll understand. It's just the only way I could illustrate the facts now that Knight has purged everything from Mick's site.

I am really glad I did not join! A fan club membership, and you don't even get a signed pictureof the band...

If you guys paid your fan club fee on your credit card, have you tried calling your credit card company to dispute the charge? I have done this before. It is pretty easy to do. They will ask what you have done to try and fix the situation, so it would be a good idea to email the fan club first (if you haven't already) to say you are unhappy about it and want a refund. Save a copy of that email that you can send to your credit card company, and let them know that the fan club is ignoring you and not replying at all to your complaints in that you did not get what you paid for. I don't see any problem with your credit card company fixing it for you and crediting your account. I did this when buying a mattress and I had signed a contract saying I could not get my money back - for any reason, but only a replacement if something was wrong with the mattress. Well, something was wrong with the mattress, but because of the crappy customer service I recieved, I refused to give them my business, and so instead of just getting a different mattress, my credit card company made sure I got a complete refund and so the mattress company had no choice but to come pick it up from my house and take it back, and give me my money back. And then the mattress company tried to get me to sign the paperwork when they picked it up and not refund me in full, but charging me for delivery, service, etc., and I wrote in my own note on the paperwork saying I was returning the mattress for a *full* refund and wrote down the amount, and how they gave me free shipping and delivery. And my credit card company backed me up all the way, and I got my refund in full.

So it's worth a try. Just make sure you have tried emailing the fan club once or twice aksing them to refund your money. And then you have that to tell the credit card company - that you tried to resolve the issue on your own, but the company is not responding to your complaints and questions.

Good luck!

Hi Ledgies,
Just wanted to let you know that I was able to pull a 12th row seat in this morning's public sale for the Columbus show. Also, my password for the fanclub presale is suddenly not working. Go figure.

If anyone's looking, I just pulled another 12 row.

#18 REFUNDS- No, Not through the fan club

#28 I disagree with mbr33. You only get access to Mick's board if you never complain and did not ask for a refund of the fan club membership. I was not offered a refund after asking for it twice and I have been banned from the site even though they did not give me my money back. I will dispute the charge on my credit card, which shouldn't be a problem now that I'm banned from the site altogether.

Unfortunately, I didn't have time to work on this FAQ this evening. If others do have the time and would like to help complete it, please pick a few questions and provide as much detail as you can in the answers. Please also try to write in as objective a manner as possible. mbr33 gave a good starting point on many questions. I will try to work on this more on Tuesday night. Thank you.

- Marty

I've been reading this board for a while and this is my first post. I felt led to respond because I was one of the taken and I'm happy to see that somebody--Marty--shows an interest in what has happened. What happened with the "fan club" presale is disgusting! The terminology in all of the fan club e-mails regarding the presale was vague and misleading. In the excitement of scoring a seat in the best 20% of the arena I went against my better judgement and joined the club so that I could participate in the presale. I paid $59.95 just a couple weeks ago and on the day of the presale I ended up with seats that will require the use of binoculars. I've got a high speed connection and not more than 30 seconds after quickly logging onto Ticketmaster at 12:00 PST (when the tix for my venue did go on sale), I was offered seats in the back of the arena. In a panic I clicked to purchase the tickets and have regretted it ever since! I contacted Ticketmaster about a refund and they told me they have no control, that I should contact the folks in charge of the presale. HA! I have e-mailed the Knight and sent him personal messages while he is online on that stinking chat board. Nothing, he replies to nothing!!! Many of my posts have been deleted but I haven't been banned, not yet! I think it's a real shame this has happened. I've read where some blame Mick but I would like to believe he is clueless. The fan club is wrong all the way around!!! If you're not a member, DON'T JOIN!! You get nothing but some videos of Mick--that's okay but we should get more as members of a fan club!! I've spent $60 for a lame fan club, $125 for awful seats to a Mac show, and $20 in service charges for that same show. I'm very happy to be seeing the show but expected to be seeing it without the assistance of binoculars!! Sorry so long....nice to be able to vent and know it won't be deleted.

Thanks!!!!

Spunky,
If you want, you may call Ticketmaster, ask for customer service and explain to them what you were promised and tell them that you didn't get what you were promised. Make sure you ask for customer service, a supervisor is the only one who can approve the cancellation of your order. You must also wait until the public sale begins. I know this works because I did it. I also made it clear in a very calm way that if they didn't cancel my order that I would dispute the charges on my credit card. I had no problems with them. Sorry things didn't work out for you.

Answers to FAQ
 

Here is some of what I know from being on/banned at Mick's board. I also joined the fan club. I did not buy seats due to the inavailability of anything in the best 20% of floor/house.

1. Memberships began selling the week of Feb 10, 2003.
This is according to several people who said they kept
receipts and bought memberhips the first day/week.

2. Prices have varied. First advertised price was $59.99
Later it was raised to $79.99, but AOL members are still
supposed to get a $20 discount. CAN AN AOL MEMBER
VERIFY THIS?

3. You mention what is being advertised NOW on the fan club
sign up page. However, during the first month I don't think
that was the same advertisement. Does anyone else
remember when they changed it? During the first month of
the fan club the only tangible thing offered was the access
to seats as quoted in this post made by the fan club director.
This post was made about 3 weeks ago.

"I hope the Fan Club will get judged based on what it provides the fans during the tour. Not much it can offer at this moment, other than a discount to those of you who chose to come in early. I think most of you will be happy about our stellar ticket block which includes over 500 seats a concert starting in row #1 and moving through about row 25 in most venues. As for the song offer, I believe you can LISTEN free in the FREE videos coming on the free Fleetwood Mac site. The charge is an OPTION Warner Bros. Records - Not the band or the Fan Club - is OFFERING for those who want to OWN the songs BEFORE they get released on the record. WBR is doing a pretty cool thing by letting people SELECT what they want to OWN in a SINGLE format. They have requirements for paying other parties so a small charge for a song you can own sounds fair. It is a choice that some people will like. I hope this post is helpful." The Knight! on: Feb 26th, 2003, 10:40pm

4. According to a poll I conducted at Mick's site (now deleted,
but I saved all posts and can put them up here if nec.) LESS
THAN 10% got tickets in the best 20%. The poll results were
4 out of 60 got good seats according to those who responded
before the thread was pulled. Most people posted that the
only seats offered them, from the minute the sale began
and for hours throughout the day, were the very back of the
floor in the worst part of the highest priced seats. In my case,
looking for seats at the Staples Cntr., from the second the
sale began, I was offered 2nd level or last section of the floor
only. This went on for 2 hours. I was offered the same seats
in the same rows, over and over again.

5. I remember a post on Mick's board by the Knight, the fan club
director, which mentioned no exact number of seats but that
we would have access to front row. His post mentions
information related to questions 6, 8 & 9. Knight's post:

UPDATE: (3/1 10:58 AM Pacific Time)
"OK - Here's what we know. We should be announcing On-Sale dates, Venues and Concert Dates for the first leg on Monday, Maybe Tuesday AT THE LATEST. Club Presale should begin within 10 days. Public sales shortly thereafter. A few venues have sent notices to their season ticket holders or their e-lists announcing their venue's date and pre-sale info for VIP/season ticket holders. These presales are not related to our Club presale and do not impact our Club reserved ticket blocks. I can confirm that the Fan Club has FRONT ROW (FIRST ROW - ON THE FLOOR) seats in all Ticketmaster sales venues. Club also has about 600 seats in the best 20% of the house, on the floor, for most venues. Additionally, Club members may purchase from the general public stock before public sales begin."

This is what Knight said BEFORE the sale, not what actually happened. I'll start a new post and begin with what fans said actually happened or was truly available on the day of the sale.

This is what really happened according to somebody who posted on Mick's board early the next morning the day after the sale. I copied it directly from Mick's board just before it was deleted. This person says they have connections at Ticketmaster and his post addresses issues in question numbers

4, 5, 7, 9, 11,

Posts: 1
FROM A PRO - NO TICKETS WERE RELEASED
« Reply #51 on: Today [3/14] at 2:01am »

"I stubbled upon this board from an email I received from the Fan Club and wanted to confirm that there were no more than 20 tickets available within the first 20 rows for any presale. I have been buying tickets for a large hotel chain for over 15 years, we do tons of promotions and give hundreds of tickets out to our clients weekly. I have purchase through Ticketmaster presales practically everyday, over 90% of the time I get seats within the first 5 rows released. I can also confirm the post someone made on this board that only 1 pair of row 1 seats were available for each venue, then 4 tickets in row 10, then a few in the row 20s. The bulk of tickets were in the rear floor sections and in bad lower level seats. A quite reliable connection we have at Ticketmaster said this is what they call a "top down" presale, its when they put the worst of the top price seats onsale first. These are typically the hardest seats for them to sell because people are usually only willing to pay $100+ for good seats, then they select the cheaper seats. If you check shows that have gone onsale you will always see the worst "best" seats are the ones that are left. Basically this was a scam from both the fan club and Ticketmaster, the fan club led us to believe that for $60 we can get first crack at good seats, and on Ticketmasters end they ensure the bad "best" seats get sold so they shows will for sure sell out come the public sale. The real front row seats will go onsale to the public on Monday but will get sold in less than 1 second. I have already contacted Visa, they have credited back my $60 and are investigating. If more of us complain then it will be pretty obvious that a scam took place and we should fairly easily get our money back. Again I have been doing this for over 15 years, I can confirm all of your suspicions."

Re: Answers to FAQ
 

Yes, please. If someone on AOL could please check this out it would be helpful.

- Marty

hello all~
here is what it states on AOL:

**Fleetwood Mac

Category: Music : Pop/Rock

Join the official Fleetwood Mac Fan Club and get access to premium tickets, content and more.
Special offer for AOL Members NOW! **

the link takes you to the fanclub page, so it appears the discount is the same one that was "introductionally" given to everyone else.

this is taken from the "Artist of the Month" page. Hope this helps.
~april~(*

A couple of things
 

I have all of the fan club emails regarding the presale on my computer at home, so I can send them over, if anyone wants to add them to the FAQ somehow.

Also, I was wondering, shouldn't there be a question regarding the early start for a good number of the presales? We should document which shows started early, if we could. I'm in the process of getting a refund, so I'm trying to figure out when the Nassau Coliseum show went on sale.

I am on AOL, and do not know of any additional discounts off of the fan club memberships being offered to AOL members. Would have been nice though.....I joined while the fan club still had the price down to it's oh-so-generous $59.95, or whatever it was. I don't feel that my $60 "worked for me" in that whole pre-sale thing.

Stephanie

Re: A couple of things
 

I saved things going way back as well. Not sure if it's wise to put it up now. I was planning to put lots more here to show how things were constantly changed over there and also at the fan club webpage to present a different image to whomever might be snooping around. That was before I got hacked after the last time I posted to this thread. I also see nobody's added much since then. It seems sort of pointless now. Most people seem to be moving on. SYW polls and rate this song threads are what everybody wants to discuss. That's cool.

C'mon glitter! "You can't stay home and give up the fight..." Hang in there girl.

Re: Re: A couple of things
 

Glitter, I think there is much more interest here than you realize.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/900077.asp?0ql=c9p

Interesting MSN article about the online fan club ticketings going on... they do specifically mention the 'Mac.

Thanks for posting this. If we haven't already sent anything to Stevie and/or Lindsey's management, it would be worth adding this article as an appendix, no?

It may have. According to the article, MSNBC received a lot of feedback re: the "fan club"s and also feedback re: FM too.

Today, I heard from a fan club member that when the Grand Rapids pre-sale began, one did not need a password to buy tickets...apparently, they logged in right at 9 AM and surprise! It was just like a general public sale. Understandably, they were upset that their co-workers in the same office, who are NOT fan club members, got better seats!

Just another item to chalk up under JT's web of lies and BS!:mad:

Just thought I'd mention I got a nice email from the fan club today. It said I was granted a refund for my membership. Well, whadayaknow? It wasn't really news to me because my credit card co already ruled in my favor and reversed my charges along time ago. At least "somebody" within organization is taking responsibility for the fan club mess. I wonder what finally convinced em to make amends? Letters to management? Bad publicity from MSNBC? The CAG breathing down their necks? All of the above? It appears there's been a change of leadership...at least in name. My email was signed

Carol Wilson,
Director of Fan Services

Most likely just an employee of JT. Anybody else hear anything about a shake up? I'm satisfied that somebody's FINALLY stepped up to the plate. I might even rethink getting the cd and perhaps going to the Phx show. It's a benefit for a cause I've always supported in the past.

I'd hate to say it's too little, too late, even though I'd be justified. I've always said I'm not of the postition that I could never be satisfied. I just expected somebody to take responsibility for the way fans were mistreated. Now I'll try to move on and salvage what I can from the experience.


:wavey:

They're still spinning crap
 

One of the last emails for the recent presale said that "there were no big system failures that we know of during the first presale". They're also still trying to convince everyone that the biggest problem during the first presale was the incorrect use of passwords.

They've also changed some of their promises, AGAIN....

The new phrase they're spinning is

"top 20% of the floor seating"

"small block of 1st row seats"



and they've changed the access to all of the arena seats before the general public sale to:


once the club block is taken, members will be able to purchase "SELECTED SEATS" sheduled to go on sale to the general public before the public offering.





It seems that NOTHING has changed and Jonathan Todd still believes that he can keep changing the fanclub agreement whenever he wishes and keep changing and spinning what was promised and sold to the members. For some strange reason he thinks he can keep getting away with this.

My guess is they're granting the refunds and not contesting the credit card chargebacks in an effort to make this quietly go away. It won't stop the complaints filed against the fanclub and Jonathan Todd and it won't matter to any agency investigating them that they granted some refunds. This is not going away for Jonathan Todd anytime soon, EVERY dog has his day.