Anyone else fear the SYW Lindsey songs are gonna the same version as GOS?
 

I REALLY do enjoy all those Gift of Screws tracks. But I am a little worried that when I hear SAY YOU WILL, the old GOS tracks will be exactly that (the same exact version) but just with a new Stevie vocal here are there. I would be a little upset if this were the case. Can anyone, that may have heard any of the new tracks let us know if they are inedeed NEW versions?

I mean Lindsey must know that the entire GOS album has been leaked out across the www. Just to take half those finished tracks and just throw them on a new Mac Album would semm kinda lazy.

what are anyone else's toughts?

-Derek

There are a few people here who actually want the 'GoS' tracks to remain unchanged, and will be happiest if they remain exactly as we know them... but personally, I'm hoping that Lindsey and the band have made a few tweaks or refinements.

Nothing major though... just something to make them fresher, and more "band-oriented."

There are rumours that "Peacekeeper," at least, has been modified somewhat from the version most of us have become familiar with... so it'll be interesting to see if there have been changes made to any of the other tracks.



Johnny Stew

Re: Anyone else fear the SYW Lindsey songs are gonna the same version as GOS?
 

Your rationale is a little vexing. So because the songs were leaked, he should go make all kinds of changes to please the few hundred people who already have them? That would make a man who has slaved over the songs for 10 years lazy? If a manuscript of John Irving's gets leaked out on the web six months before it is supposed to be published, should he go make changes to it?

Most of the GOS songs were finished, so don't expect major changes.

Re: Re: Anyone else fear the SYW Lindsey songs are gonna the same version as GOS?
 

...and some of us like them just the way they are....:)

Glad i haven't heard the GOS demos.

Even if they ARE the same versions that were leaked, they're going to SOUND a tad bit different due to they'll have gone through all the final mixing & mastering. For example on "Bleed To Love Her", there won't be that variation in the overall level of the track. The volume at the beginning of the song is quite a bit lower than it is by the time it gets to the second chorus...the final versions will have those kind of discrepancies eliminated (or, I'd be VERY surprised if they weren't).

You know the funny thing is if LB left the tracks on SYW exactly the same as on the "released" demos, then I have to wonder what he (and I mean LB not FM) has been doing for the last six years :eek: :cool: ;) I guess genius takes time. I can also picture LB doing a bunch of stuff and SN saying where is my stuff that was originally in here - "Put it Back" a la Norma Desmond when Joe Gillis tries to delete one her scenes from her self-penned silent movie script in "Sunset Blvd." Actually, that's not a bad reference, only SN is not as delusional or washed up as poor Norma Desmond :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

If you do not get the Sunst Blvd. reference - go here for more information http://www.filmsite.org/suns.html and see below in a better than usual paraphrasing of the story:

Norma: "Cut away from me?"

Joe: "Norma, they don't want you in every scene."

Norma: "Of course they do. What else would they have come back for. Put it back!"

______________________________________________________________________________
Someone is feeling a little punchy:wavey:

THE PART I DON'T GET...
 

I must admit that I don't know much of the story behind GOS but if it was true what I heard about that Reprise had rejected GOS as a solo album, why is it that they now accept some of those same songs (on FM's SYW album they (Reprise) will put out) that they had previously rejected for LB's GOS?

John

Re: THE PART I DON'T GET...
 

That could be fairly easy to answer -- they wanted it to go on Fleetwood Mac's name. Lindsey may be a genius, a master, however you want to praise him, but he still isn't known for high solo sales figures, and sadly that's what a record company is interested in these days. So, if you can take the same songs and plaster them on to the name Fleetwood Mac to sell a lot more, why not? (That last sentence was NOT MY thought, it's what the record co. was probably thinking.)

I don't thnk so. Fleetwood Mac spent EIGHTEEN MONTHS in the studio. I would be suprised if those songs weren't drasticly changed. Just look at the times we got. All the songs have very differnet times. Most noticeably Come. I liked the songs, but i feel none of them sounded finished. Except Red Rover.

I wonder just exactly what people are hoping for when they say they want the songs to be different. Did you not like them? Do you want him to change words, rework the progressions, perhaps can the melodies and do chants for all fo them?

I don't get it, people, these were finished songs. Of course there will be some changes because those tracks weren't mastered. Chili mentioned the Bleed to Love Her example. When I put the files on my audio-editing software, I noticed a lot of the songs started at a lower volume than they ended.

Yes, there will be some tweaks, but again, don't expect major changes.

I agree that the songs won't be changed musically, per se, but I do believe there will in the very least be some extra parts, retracked parts (namely rhythm and b/g vocals), and up-todate mixing a'la Thrown Down/Say You Will. The arrangement/mixing of Miranda/Murrow etc is pretty sparse by comparison to these.
Unless they're approaching Stevie song one way and Lindsey's another :shrug:
:wavey:

how do you explain a nearly two minute drop off in Come's time.

I assume Carne considers editing to be a tweak, as do I.

I really hope that they treat Lindsey's and Stevie's songs from the same direction....It would disturb the album flow if they didn't....

~Alex

I would remind you that is not official. It may well be that the length of the files on WinMX may be off in a couple of cases.

But even son, a two-minute drop would not change the character of the song. And if you ask me, Come is way too long anyway.

I think we'll see a mix...
 

I bet a few of the GOS demos will be totally re-recorded and sound different, others will get slight tweaks, others will simply be remastered with or without a Stevie vocal (remember not all of Lindseys Mac songs have Stevie on them) and not sound different at all. I don't care which ones get redone and which don't. I love them all and I'm sure I would love any changes, from the most radical to the most subtle. I especially love to hear alternate versions of my favorite songs with very subtle differences.

I agree, most of the GOS demos sound totally finished. Say Goodbye is an example of one that sounds lovely the way it is, acoustic...but it may get some added instruments and/or vocals. I trust Lindsey to make the best of every song. He's the last musician/producer in the world I'd call lazy.

Deribish, I think Lindsey probably knows they've been leaked on the web, but that probably wouldn't be reason for him to change them. And I don't think anyone here has heard the new versions to compare.

We totally can't trust those times from the dummy files on Winmx! They are from files that contain no audio. Then again, I admit I saw those and thought, "say it aint so" because I wouldn't change a thing about Come, but like I said, I trust Lindsey. :nod:
-Sonia

Don't look a "gift" horse in the mouth...
 

I'm in total agreement with Carne on this subject. Many of the "GOS" tracks we are familiar with are finished versions that were submitted to Reprise for final mastering. It is possible that Lindsey may have undertaken some further minor post production mixing and editing but essentially all that remained to be done was the mastering and sequencing of the album.

However, in the absence of those final touches, we are still left with a masterpiece, perhaps Lindsey's finest work to date. So if the songs to be included on "SYW" have not undergone any radical transformation in the intervening years, what do we have to complain about? The gripe concerning familiarity is a rather cheeky and esoteric one. What must be remembered is that whilst many of us have been able to access these recordings, we were never supposed to - it is the internet age and a considerable lack of discretion that made this possible. Consequently, in this godless, de-regulated society we exist in, all kinds of arrogant assumptions are made but the reality in relation to what has been leaked (from the "GOS" submitted selection) is that they are not "official" nor "released" and most definitely not "demos".

I would imagine that apart from the addition of Stevie's vocals to some but not all of the "GOS" songs, there may be some subtle remixing in order to lend a contemporary air (remember some of these songs are 9 years old) as well as complement the sonic qualities of Stevie's songs but next to no reinvention. After all, if it ain't broke...

The charge of laziness directed at Lindsey is both misguided and entirely inaccurate - let's look at the facts.
After working steadfastly on solo sessions between 1993 and 1995, Lindsey hooked up with Mick, John and Christine to flesh out the recordings. Then in 1997, "The Dance" interrupted proceedings but by 1998, Lindsey picked up where he had left off and resumed recording. I don't know whether Mick and John were involved at that stage or not, but after much painstaking creation, the completed, unmastered "GOS" album was handed in to Reprise during December 2000 (as evidenced by the official Reprise CD-R). Then virtually immediately afterwards, Lindsey began work on the "second half" of what was to become "SYW".

In January 2001, Stevie handed Lindsey a clutch of 17 demos and shortly thereafter, he reconvened with Mick and John (this time in the rented home studio) in order to commence laying down tracks for these very songs. The three of them proceeded to fashion finished instrumentals of these songs up until December 2001, at which time Stevie entered the studio after completing the "TISL" tour. Recording continued throughout 2002 (possibly incorporating a number of post "GOS" Lindsey tracks) and as we know, the mixing was completed in early December. By my calculations, Lindsey's work ethic ain't' too shabby.

With regard to the content of "SYW", there are four distinct periods of recording as outlined above, but I believe what we'll hear will be principally taken from the 1996; 1998-2000 and 2001-2002 sessions. In a sense, a whole new album was created during the last 2 years and if I remember correctly, Mick attested to this by referring to the focus of these particular sessions. He remarked that there had been a real emphasis on simplicity and purity of sound, referencing the approach to "Rumours'" more acoustic moments. This would imply that there is indeed a stylistic difference between the bulk of Lindsey's and Stevie's songs, perhaps even recalling the spirit of "Tusk". As far as I'm concerned, this bodes well for the album whether the songs jar alongside one another or not. Somehow though, I don't think this is going to be a problem.

So, in conclusion, let's get real about the situation and be eternally grateful that Lindsey and Stevie have not had to resort to embarking on reunion club tours at this juncture in their careers. Rather they have embraced true artistry during middle-age with the same intensity and verve as they did in their youth. No, not too shabby at all.

Re: Re: THE PART I DON'T GET...
 

Yeah I figured that but assuming Lindsey would've known that's what Reprise was going to say/think, then why did he even bother submitting it to them for a solo album in the first place then? (Just so you know, I'm not getting at you Sorcerer, I just mean them you know? :) ) Oh well! :)

I tend to agree with Carne, Phil, ChiliD etc. that with the exception of adding SN's vocals to the GOS stuff I would imagine there won't be much of a difference and yeah, an edit from "Come" would be a "minor detail". JMHO though. :)

John

Re: Don't look a "gift" horse in the mouth...
 

Phil.. what a good post !

I couldn't agree with you more, we should ALL be happy that these very talented folks are still with us and doing what they love to do best, entertaining people like us! :)

What an impressive retrospective!! I would have never been able to make clear what was fact and what was fiction (fed by the rumours and personal thoughts on the different boards). Thanks very much, phil. This makes me feel good again about the album....and it's been a while.....

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and opinions on the GOS/SOW Lindsey tracks. The responses (and information in them) has turned this into quite an interesting and exciting thread.

However, I'd like to take this time and apologize for my choice of words in my original post. I was by no means trying to offend anyone or their love for the oringal versions of these songs -- I was just looking for some new information. I was also NEVER trying to imply that Lindsey was a lazy person, producer, musician or Mac-member. That was just poor/"lazy" post-composition on my part.

-Derek

Eh, fughetabbahdit!

Also, when you compare the demos of Thrown Down to what we are assuming is the final copy, the change is drastic. In fact, another Ledgie fairly recently compared the new Thrown Down sound to the old "Wall of Sound" developed around the 60's. To get this sound requires layering of many different tracks, etc. In other words, that new big sound did not just happen; it took time. So, maybe LB spent those last 18-24 months 90% on SN's 17 demos (one a month ? - she gave them in 2001 ?) and 10% reworking the GOS "demos" to fit SN's vocal and other contributions as well as the input from John, Mick, and the record company. This, of course assumes LB and SN actually saw production value in all 17 SN demos. Even so, if they only chose 14 SN songs to work on to fruition, that is still less than two months per song. Moreover, depending on the quality of production SN's demos are sparse and can take a long time to craft, e.g., Thrown Down. Food for Thought:cool:

Whatever the changes, I cannot wait to hear the GOS songs in FM format. Thankfully, I have, I think, copies of the LB only versions if the FM production is changed too much :eek:

just a thought..
 

Whil I think the GOS leaked tracks are great, I do think some will be reworked. "Red Rover" is my favorite, and yet it contains no drums or bass [as I remember Lindsey mentioned he did it with two guitars and a delay effect]...while Lindsey by no means has to use Mick and John on every track [ala Tusk and the magical shoe box] I'm curious to see how it might be reinvisioned with a real rhythm section. The song melodically is so strong that I think it might not lose anything from being refashioned in a more mainstream way....the strength the song might actually be more obvious this way!

Remember, quite a few (I dare say, "MOST"?) of the GOS tunes had Mick & John as the rhythm section already, so they already ARE in "Fleetwood Mac format".

That's one of the tunes that Lindsey described as trying new ideas, so I seriously DOUBT that they'd overdub drums & bass to that. I foresee "Red Rover" being done live by Lindsey onstage alone (ala "Big Love")

Actually, after reading..
 

After reading the new guitar magazine interview, it looks like "Red Rover" might remain the same as originally recorded...

And after reading that I REALLY hope we get to hear the tracks that DON'T make it onto the album...there was a new Lindsey song mentioned in the interview which I have not heard of before..plus his description of the guitarwork on "Not Makebelieve" makes me really want to hear it..

Come....
 

CarneVaca!If you read my posts about how dangerous that
song was for ME...almost going off the road in my car when
it changes timber in the "chorus - bridge" part...maybe they
quieted that louder part and dropped the second replay for
a smoother modulated"Come/Sweet Darling!"Still NICE!Sky:)

Hello ChiliD -

I agree the FM rhythm section on a bunch of the GOS demos puts them in a quasi FM format.

I was more or less referring to SN vocal contributions and any changes LB might make to accommodate those vocals. It certainly is feasible that LB could let SN take lead vocals on a song or a section of a song while he moves to harmony. SN did this in her song Twisted. Or, there could be two lead vocals and two or more layered harmony sections as SN usually does. A good example of a good result of this type of accommodation was when they added SN's incredible (my opinion) harmony to Big Love on Letterman and other shows after The Dance tour. So, we shall see!!!! Whatever, the end result, I cannot wait to hear it as I am sure I will be pleased.

Re: Re: THE PART I DON'T GET...
 

I totally agree. Yea it's that simple: Fleetwood Mac sells, Lindsey Buckingham (relatively speaking) doesn't.

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: