Do Fleetwood Mac need backing vocalists?
 

As mentioned in previous threads, I am more than impressed with the Mac version of "Thrown Down" but I am troubled by one aspect of it - the rather anonymous backing vocals courtesy of god knows who. Yes that's right, someone other than a member of the band!

This just doesn't make any sense to me - the Mac are renowned for their unique harmonies and not just the blend of Stevie, Lindsey and Christine, but also for their inventive approach to vocals whether it be all three vocalists; just Stevie and Lindsey or multi-tracking of a lone voice (cue Lindsey and most of his contributions to the Tusk album).

So why would they take the step of soliciting the services of outside backing vocalists? Well, of course, the obvious explanation would be to fill the supposed void of Christine but this just doesn't cut it for me. The supporting vocals featured on "Thrown Down" seem to be mimicking Christine but are a pale imitation of the real thing. The fact is that Christine has left the group and as Mick has mentioned in recent interviews, paved the way for a new incarnation of the band. So why would they want to replicate the previous incarnation, particularly if they are not capable of doing it themselves?

Mick has also spoken about the dynamic of this pared down version of the Mac harking back to the days of Buckingham Nicks and the fact that it presents an opportunity for Stevie and Lindsey to reassert themselves as a vocal duo. He has even trotted out the old "full circle" cliche as a catalyst for the sound and themes of the new album, yet the inclusion of hired vocalists would serve to contradict this statement.

It's one thing to rope in celebrity rock guests like Sheryl Crow (and whilst I don't consider this a wise move, she at least can boast an intimate and creative bond with Stevie) but to rely upon the input of insipid, generic sounding nobodies, well that just leaves me cold... and somewhat confused.

I guess none of this bodes well for the upcoming concerts which will undoubtedly feature backing vocalists just as the Tango In The Night and The Dance tours did. I was hoping with Christine gone that Stevie and Lindsey would rely solely upon themselves and strip things back on stage, but I will have to accept that this was wishful thinking. Once again, I'm sure the justification for these superfluous intruders would be that they are integral to recreating the sound of the records, but why is this deemed necessary?

The Mac catalogue has always taken on a new dimension in a live context and it is these raw reinterpretations that are generally cited by fans as the definitive versions of classics such as Rhiannon; Landslide; Go Your Own Way; Sara; Sisters Of The Moon; Gypsy and Big Love. The whole purpose of live performance is to redefine one's work and communicate it in an honest and truthful manner. Highly stylised odes to perfection are of no interest to me... but more importantly, are they to anyone else out there?

pettiness sweet pettiness. :distress:

I think they do actually, brings a bit of depth to the songs

Phil, you've raised some interesting points. And I am sure most of us have thought about the concerns you express.

While I am not a fan of the "superfluous intruders," the fact is the if band wants to do harmonies the way it used to, the backup singers are necessary. Stevie cannot hit some of the notes necessary to pull off the harmonies, and Lindsey's use of the voice effects can only go so far before they sound too manufactured. So I'm torn on this one.

As for the live sound, I went to "Tango" and "Dance" shows and I was gratified that they had the backup singers, and in the case of "The Dance," the added musicians. I mean, look at some of the early video footage of the band performing "Go Your Own Way," for instance. Without the acoustic guitar rhythm the song sounds pretty plain. That acoustic riff is fundamental. By the same token, trying to recreate the harmonies of "Gypsy" or "Everywhere" would have been impossible without the backup singers.

If the live sound comes across as too antiseptic or pre-fabricated in the next tour, I will blame that on the thing that irritates me about Lindsey more than anything else--his insistence on approaching the shows as if they were a Broadway play, with even the commentary between songs rehearsed. That lack of spontaneity in concert is troubling. And it makes me think twice about seeing the band when they come to New York. Even though I love to see Lindsey wail on that guitar, I'm not sure it'll be worth it to sit way up in the nosebleeds through a prefab show. Besides, nothing will ever beat the experience of being close enough to touch him (which I didn't) at the Paradise in Boston during the Cradle tour.

I guess, ultimately, I can live with the backup singers. I wouldn't mind seeing Bekka back there harmonizing with Lindsey and Stevie. And by the way, don't be surprised if Sheryl Crow does make an appearance on the album. I would put money on that. And I could definitely see her filling in on keys in the live shows. We'll see.

I don't like the idea of alot of back-up vocalists..but truth be told,the songs would sound pretty strange without them...songs can not be replicated onstage to sound exactly like they do on album without some adjustments.I really didn't mind the Dance line-up at all..I think the girls fit in just fine...but i think that with Christine gone it is going to be more of a challenge..if they plan on doing any songs that involved her at all...anyway...bottom line..I don't care if they take the Vienna Boys Choir with them...they are putting out an album,and touring with it...and i am pretty damn happy about that :)

I don't think FM need backing singers, because where they have more than 1 singer, they can just use them instead.

As we've discussed here before, Fleetwood Mac using additional musicians on their studio albums is not without precedent (Waddy Wachtel played rhythm guitar on "Sugar Daddy," for example), but this will be the first time they've used additional vocalists outside of the live environment.

I like the additional vocals on "Thrown Down"... they add a nice touch, and thankfully they're not obtrusive.
I'm not sure how I'll feel if every single track features additional vocalists though.
I guess it'll just depend on how they're used. If it's sparingly, and for the betterment of the songs (for example, they're not noticeable on the choruses of "Thrown Down"... they just provide some color), then I guess I won't have a problem with it.

Just so long as it's not done excessively.


Johnny Stew

Correction: They were used in "Time."

In the studio they don't need back up vocalists. On stage they probably do. For example, listen to Go Your Own Way from the Dance, then listen to another live version of it by the Mac in any of their previous tours. There is a major difference in the vocals. Some people like back ups some don't, I do. It's all just preference.

Matt

omg!!! :eek: :shocked:

ouch!! just fell out of my chair...Carne has dissed Lindsey!!!:laugh:

personally, I enjoy concerts that have some showmanship in them, nothing is more boring then watching musicians just play songs exactly off the record. I loved the Cars back in the day but they were the most boring concert I'd ever seen...nobody moved an inch...they should have twirled...

as for backup singers on the album, I agree with Johnny Stew, ok as long as they are not intrusive...

I won't sit here and be an apologist for the man. He has flaws. Now if only the Stevie fans would have the same attitude... ;)

Oops... I forgot about Lucy Fleetwood providing backing vocals on "These Strange Times." *blushes*

Well... unless you were referring to Dave, Bekka & Billy?!
:laugh:



Johnny Stew

I think Stevie's fans do have the same attitude... it's just that we don't hold anything against her, or vilify her for any mistakes she's made.


Johnny Stew

Nah.... I caught you. Let me relish this. ;)

I certainly don't vilify the woman. I'm a fan. I simply am not a fan of all of her work. And I try to be lucid about the reality of the current state of the Mac.

Back-up singers!
 

Excuse me... Since we are villifying here...I got so tired of those girls up there swaying back and forth constantly! It was very distracting to me! Weren't those Stevies back-up singers? So, of course she used them!!! Lindsey did his best work...Alone !!!:)


They will never have that FRESH...YOUNG...Buck/Nicks vibe again
as they are mature now and not strong enough to do it all ... as they acknowledged with all the extra musicians and singers on stage
during The Dance Tour! I feel as Phil does!!!:D Later! Sky;)

I like a Mac concert that's rough & off-key. When you bring in the Celanis & the Mabrys & the whozits & whatsits, they are trained to sing on pitch, which really bums me out. I don't want my Mac concert to sound like elevator music. That's what the '97 concert sounded like with all those perfectly pitched oohs & aahs in the background. The other thing I didn't like was Christine McVie's choice of electric piano patch. It was way too bland for my taste. It sounded like the Rhodes Billy Joel played on "Just the Way You Are." Yecchhh.

I for one would vote for no backup singers. I like my Mac pure, imperfections and all. :nod:

If Christine was there then I would say no backup singers. I feel that without her they really need another voice to round out the songs. Although I love Stevie & Lindsey's harmonies, Christine's vocals really enriched the blend.

Also, in the past it seems that Chris & Lindsey didn't do enough vocally on some of Stevie's songs during live performances.

During Dreams they would sing during the chourus "heartbeat...stillness...lonely" and that really added to the song. Also during Sara they did the ooh's and aah's and joined in with harmony during the " I stay home at night, all the time" part of the song.

In later years it seemed that they only sang the "thunder" part of Dreams and added nothing to Sara(when they still performed it).

I have also seen Stevie leave the stage during I'm So Afraid & You Make Lovin' Fun.

It seems that since Tango, when they started using the backup singers, that the songs seemed "fuller". To me they add to the song, without being overbearing.

I also am in the minority here, but I would not mind seeing Sheryl Crow on tour with them. They need a keyboard player and someone to perform Chris' songs. I would like to see a few of Chris' songs performed.

JMHO

Sean

I don't really mind backup singers, as long as they stay well to the BACK of the stage!:D

If it means the songs will sound better than they otherwise would (and I'm sure Fleetwood Mac can make a good decision about that!), then sure, let the backing vocalists "aaaaaaahhh" all they want!:)

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Something real...
 

I am not keen on generic backing vocalists under any circumstances. I don't have a problem with Sheryl assisting, especially in a supporting role because apart from being genuinely talented, she has lived and breathed the road so possesses an acute understanding of what is required... some ****ing passion.

Anyone who wants to hear the studio recordings recreated on stage may as well sit home with their cds and dvds - that way they'll save their money and won't cop any nasty surprises like off key vocals or improvised instrumentation. Jesus what is the art of live performance all about anyway?

I don't need to hear pristine muzak or watch an array of costume changes or marvel at how well Stevie's makeup stays in place or observe the stilted backing vocalists' tacky moves... I want flesh and blood, something real. I wanna hear Stevie's voice crack and Lindsey's guitar bleed... surely others do too.

C'mon Stevie and Lindsey (after all it will be their show), reclaim your edge and leave us breathless like you did twenty years ago! Age has not withered them - they still have the ability to mesmerise, of that I'm sure. So let's see them strut their stuff like they actually mean it and maybe, just maybe we'll forgive the occasional "foible" in exchange for something positively visceral... a meaningful and moving connection. Yeah, I think that's what it's all about.

The truth and nuthin' but the truth!
 

I agree with Phil, given the choice, STRIP IT DOWN! I go to a show because I want to see FLEETWOOD MAC in concert. This is their "false advertising" stuff going on again but we are used to this one by now as it's been going on since 1987 (as already stated elsewhere in this thread), by rights the shows SHOULD be billed as "Fleetwood Mac... and friends" but haven't been and of course won't be as this kind of fakery is done by just about all in the music industry now so it's become "the norm" as LB would say.

Sure, I enjoy my DVD/VHS's (respectively) of "The dance" & "Tango..." etc. and yes, they have "extra people" (whether it be backing vocalists or added musicians but since TITN, we haven't had much of a choice in the matter, if we want to see recent stuff by FM, it's this or nothing, take it or leave it. The closest they came to being stripped down to just the Mac was the "Time" tour but even then, they felt as though they needed to "fill the void" left by Christine with Steve Thoma as an "added musician" on the eighty eights.

Unfortunately the "business" that FM is, dictates that it is considered the "right" thing to do for everything to sound plastic so there WILL BE extra people on this tour, I'm COMPLETELY sure of it. It would be one of the most surprising things I have EVER witnessed if only the 4 of them were to do this tour (or any future tour) WITH "cracks/imperfections" and all but they will NEVER do that again (unless it becomes "the in thing" to do but I highly doubt that will ever be the "case/trend". I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to do this kind of thing back in the 70's but it just wasn't done by anyone back then so they stayed with what was the "done thing" and didn't do it. This is probably why I love that older live stuff more, it's more real, what you see is what you get and the fans were given the benefit of the doubt that they would stick by those that they liked and wouldn't just say "Oh, you hit a wrong key, I'm outta here!" but I guess we don't have the benefit of the doubt on this anymore.

It reminds me of an interview I heard about ten years ago with songwriter Jules Shear on local Boston radio station WFNX where he had talked about how he had gone to MTV with the idea of the "Unplugged" shows (and I do remember him hosting it originally) as he thought it would be cool to have bands/artists come in and jam with each other and play each other's songs and just have it be accoustic, loosen up, mix it up a little, etc. but he said (with the exception of Aerosmith who were completely into the idea) all of the other bands/artists were screwing around with it doing extra takes and camera angles as they were always concerned with looking/sounding good and never wanted to do songs they were "unfamiliar" with in so far as performing. So he eventually quit the show as it became sort of a joke of what it was supposed to be. I'm not saying FM are a "joke" live or anything, I just mean it sounds like they don't want to have spontaneous/different moments (like the "Unplugged" artists) and that would be the whole appeal of going to a live FM show for me personally, to hear anything different to what I can already hear on the records (in a substantial way) but that's JMHO. :)

So that just leaves the decision of whether to go to the shows or not, I don't think I will be going but that's just my own choice and I hope those of you who will be going have a good time. :)

Sure, I will buy the DVD they release next year (though I get a feeling they are trying to replicate the Tusk doc feel on it rather than having it just be a straightforward concert DVD like "The dance" which I would prefer but...). If they are going to serve up "plastic perfection" anyways, I might as well hear it COMPLETE with the added overdubs and all and let them bring the show to me for $19.95 rather than spend however much for the tix (if lucky enough to get good ones which I probably woudn't be anyways) for the same thing as we know it will be the same rehearsed thing (speeches and all) at every show on the tour with the exception of any "guest appearances" (a la Crow) at a particular show, in which case when the introduction of the "guest" is over and the next song counts in, the script continues.

Sad but true, this is the way it is though I am happy some of you like that extra stuff. The record is the main thing to me personally anyways so I guess I'd be willing to bend on that as heavily overdubded discs are order of the day now it seems, so as long as it sounds good, I'll be happy as that is what I will hear over and over again anyways, not the concerts as such.

By the way, I thought it had been confirmed already that Sheryl Crow IS going to be on one of the tracks on the new FM album? (can't remember if it is on keys or backing vocals or what though but...)

John

I want my Mac pure and simple, please=:-)...No back-ups. I really wasn't happy about them at the Dance tour; at least they were for the most part unobtrusive.

I have heard Sheryl will be on the album somehow but I hope she's not on tour with them...

Well for me the back up singers never bothered me. They were always a part of Stevie.
I will take Fleetwood Mac anyway I can, I have never seen them live and I have been a fan for over 27 years. I think there is a lot of nic picking going on.
How many bands do you know after all these years are still powerfuly popular, have such an impact on us, and still tour. I think not many. Be grateful that they are even doing this at all. You can't please everyone. And I bet they can't even please everyone in the band. So be grateful they are still around, that no one has died or is ill. Be grateful, they are I bet giving all they can. I would love to see them live one day, I hope.

Alison

The words you say last a life time. So say it with love.

We are never going to have Lindsey on stage singing "Go Your Own Way" with the edge he did in 77, we are never going to have Stevie on stage having her "Rhainnon exorcisim" ever again. Also the intensity of the songs has passed and all of the real raw emotion that once was there isn't anymore. I'm willing to put down some money that there will most definately be backups for this upcoming tour and like it or not, that's the way it's going to be.

Matt

The background singers are never background enough for me. I absolutely HATE the "Runnin' in the shadows" thing they do at the end of GDW! Hardly unobtrusive!

If I go to see Fleetwood Mac, I'm not looking for anything but them. I'm not looking for a "full sound" or what the song sounded like on the album. I think I'm with Skylark on this one. Lindsey was AMAZING with his stripped down "Go Insane" and " Big Love", and just as well because they probably wouldn't have done very well on stage if he had tried to re-create the studio sound. But that's where the artistry comes in! I would rather see a concert with ALL the FM songs stripped down and just the 4 or 5 of them than this freakin' entourage thing they've been doing for the last couple tours! :nod:

Other than the VERY short "Mirage" tour, Stevie hasn't been without her background singer entourage since "Bella Donna", 20+ years ago...what makes anyone think it'll be any different NOW?? I think (and fear) that "Fleetwood Mac" will have the same personnel as "The Dance" tour, minus Christine. Let's hope fresh arrangements abound, however. But, it's Fleetwood Mac we're dealing with here, so I kind of doubt it.

IMHO, no version of "Go Your Own Way" will ever compare to the Mirage Video version...the vocals...the music....amazing!

"BAAAAYYYYBAY I'd GIVVVE YOU MYYYY WORLLLLD"

And of all the songs on The Dance, GYOW really seems to have the least effect from the back up vocalists...it's actually hard to hear them...you have to pay close attention.

Sure, the Mac aren't spontaneous with their arrangement, and the concerts (setlist, arrangement, personnel) are fairly predictable...but they are in no way as bad as say...The Eagles. You may as well listen to the album in lieu of going to an Eagles concert. They are a great band with some great, amazing songs...but I honestly believe Hotel California has never been changed in 25 years!

jmn3...
 

That sucks! :mad: Why would I want to go see a band who sound IDENTICAL to their album!!?? :confused:

THANK GOD Lindsey redid Big Love and Go Insane, two highlights from The Dance!! I don't think I've ever heard an ISA that sounded identical...similar yes...identical...nope. There ARE some FM songs that they've done which are almost identical tho. I love finding a diamond live song amidst all the similar sounding ones...like the SOTM from the Mirage video is REALLY different from the Denver 82 version...and I love them both!!

Hmmm..
 

The back-up vocals is a bit of a tricky question, but in the end I think the best solution is definitely to have them. Becuase then for whatever portion of the showit can just be raw BN ... but then on top of that you have the fuller sound when required.

As for on the album, Lindsey does do the voice alterations, but mainly for his songs. Remeber his whole thing about singing with a deep tone when in relation to Stevie :distress: . So Lindsey aint doing the backups on, for instance, Thrown Down. And Stevie these days - fraid not..her voice is a lead, not a pad! So really, without Chris or some really creative backup voice remodelling involving Lindsey and Stevie that wouldnt directly translate to what they can do on stage (an aspect I think is a driving point with this album), Mindy and so forth may as well jump aboard. Becuase FM does have a set sound to some extent, and that certainly involves YMLF/Sara/Gypsy lush background vocals. As for the 'new FM sound', thats some not all. Like Tusk ... a lot of the girl's songs retained lushness amidst the 'splintered' sounds of most of Lindsey's songs.

To Alison
 

I certainly hope you get to see the Mac this time=:-)...It's an experience you won't forget=:-)


Let's put it this way-as long as I get to see and hear the Mac, I'm not too picky about the back-ups-it's just that I'd prefer they weren't there...but I'd never not buy an album or not go to a show because of them.

I agree we'll probably have much the same personnel on this tour as the Dance. I wonder who will play keyboards? Brett? Chris' side of the stage is gonna look mighty empty without her if they don't put somebody there...

Yes, but even still, those were already 5 year old arrangements he'd done during his "OotC" tour in 1992...his "I'm free of Fleetwood Mac finally and I'll just screw with the arrangements" phase. :nod:

Re: jmn3...
 

Denver 82 is a great version of SOTM. It's similar to the Mirage video with the "Brother, sister, brother...." part, but yet it's almost completely different sounding. And actually, you can understand Stevie at the end in Denver...you actually here "and you say no bayyyybee", as opposed to "fdfidsaglkjsghlfjdgfldgflsdjgfasdf" on the Mirage video!

Another thing to point out is that a good portion of the audience whom attend Mac concerts aren't hardcore Fleetwood Mac fans like we are. They don't know what we know as far as sound on stage, etc. Even some diehard Fleetwood Mac fans don't listen close enough to realize the intricies of the music beit in the studio or live on stage. Most people go to concerts for the music, and they don't care if there are back up singers or not. All they want is a top notch performance with their favorite songs sung. To me, that's the reason why there was an addition of back up vocalists during the Tango In The Night tour because people don't want a raw performance, they want all the gloss and glitter and whatnot and backup vocalists add to the gloss and glitter.

Matt

AAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! I busted on this one!!! Me too, me too!! Where's the pukey face when I need it....

UGH!!! What WERE they thinking?? That performance was so killer, too. Why'd they ruin the spookyness of it with that background ****....

As Peter Green said, "Oh, well..."

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I'm in absolute agreement with that. Even though I still dislike the idea of having them in the studio recordings, there's that kind of sound that appears in that vocal from "Thrown Down" that Stevie cannot possibly reach, neither can Lindsey (except that he'd programmed his voice or whatever)... So it's a big "hmmmmmmm!" for the studio presence of backup vocalists.


Song of the moment - Jane