How's THIS for an answer to FM site ignoring Time & BTM?
 

As I've been saying lately, I visit mickfleetwood.com less and less as the days go on but in asking (on the board and in a PM) if the comment at fleetwoodmac.com about the new Mac album being the "first new Mac album in 15 years" could at LEAST be amended to it being the "first new full studio FM album with LB & SN as members of FM in 15 years" I received THIS in a PM from "Knight":

"All points well taken, John. I'm the producer for the FM.com site as well as MF.com. But, the FM.com site has tremendous input from the members of the band as well as Warner Bros. Records. The copy on the FM.com site was crafted and revised for hours. It will stand "as-is" despite the deep points you bring up for numerous reasons. I'm thrilled that you took the time to write about this and encourage you to be vigilant and help point these types of things out to me. Just understand that some things will not change, even when you're right! Thanks again for your thoughtful concern"

Even though we "knew" it, at least it makes it "official" that they want to ignore that "Time" and BTM even existed.

I'm kind of glad in a way that at least "they" were straight to the point about it and said so. At least we know where we stand "officially" now on this topic. You would think it would just save them much grief to stop "people like me" hounding them about such matters and having to have to send "fans like me" separate PM's about these "decisions" when they would save themselves a lot of time (from separate PMing) if they would just say this stuff publicly on their board/site (or where ever they would so choose).

I guess I just don't understand why amending it would be such a problem for them as by adding such wordings I suggested, it would only HEIGHTEN the fact that SN & LB are there which is what they obviously want to public to know first and foremost. Oh well whatever, I just thought I would share that so anyone else wanting to know this would know for sure one way or the other and as it is the "post Rumours" members/albums that are the ones being "ignored" and those that visit this section are the ones most interested in such things that it would be of interest to some of you that visit here, that's all. I hope it was anyways. :)

John

It just seems more & more obvious that Mick & Fleetwood Mac really DOESN'T WANT "fans like us", John.

Oh no!!
Fleetwood Mac & Warner Bros' attempts at revising history must be working... I just glanced at my CD collection, and 'Behind The Mask' and 'Time' are DISAPPEARING!!!

chiliD... fire up the DeLorean (*you may have to borrow one off of LouieLouie2000*)!
We need to go back...
to the future!!!



:laugh:
Johnny Stew

So are Kiln House, Future Games, Bare Trees, Penguin, Mystery To Me, and Heroes Are Hard To Find!!!


"Then Play On" is now right next to the "white album" (NOTE: I file my CDs Chronologically by artist)

I am totally not surprised...the Mick site is just another publicity/marketing tool, I doubt that the Knight is even an original fan tho I have not doubt he will be by the time wetcamelfood and Chilid are finished with him :laugh:

accuracy and "truth in advertising" is not high on the list when you're trying to sell something be it an album, DVD's, tshirts and/or fanclub dues :o

Oh, don't EVEN get me started on the price of the Fan Club "dues"...

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I wonder if they'd deduct 30 bucks for those of us who joined the other fanclub in 1990? :rolleyes:

"Fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me."


Johnny Stew

Hmm, I wonder if we have a good "false advertising" lawsuit case here?! Only kidding. :)

John

Boo
 

I can't possibly believe that these people are just ignoring a bunch of precious music like this one. Oh, Mick Fleetwood is a very good drummer, but I haven't liked most of his business actions lately... :mad:


Song of the moment - Jane

Re: How's THIS for an answer to FM site ignoring Time & BTM?
 

Well, John, if that little communication from the site owner isn't about the wooliest & most patronizing thing I've seen on that site yet, I don't know what is.

I've always felt that dealing with officialdom on a rock band's home page is akin to dealing with officialdom at the U.S. Post Office or the Internal Revenue Service. I know that a lot of people get positively moist with excitement over the prospect of an official Fleetwood Mac site or a Stevie Nicks site or, now, a Mick Fleetwood site, but I find it all just so dorky & ineffectual. The persons who run these sites are invariably uninformed, condescending & often prone to wanting to babysit site visitors. "No chocolate pudding for you before you finish your din-din." "Put that down." "Go stand in the corner until you decide to behave." "Have I given you permission to talk out of turn?"

If that's your idea of fun, by all means have at it.

That is a very surprising response that he sent to you John. At the same time, however, perhaps it is not so surprising as that was the most commercially sucessfully period of the band. On this site, I have always strived to provide information about all of the people who have been in Fleetwood Mac. That can certainly keep one busy as you know...for years. I guess at least he *tried* to be polite, but it does come off as rather dismissive.

- Marty

I must be one helluva fool. I joined the official fan club in '78 & the Stevie Nicks club in '83 or thereabouts.

I passed on the 1990 club. I figured that all that official fan club excitement would kill me.

Oh I know, and agree. As I say, I am glad that at least we got an official answer one way or the other about this if nothing else. It didn't really matter to me how fluffy/nice (or not nice) they were about it as long as we could wade through it all to get a straight answer one way or the other. I just wanted to "force" the issue as much as I could. In all honesty, I am surprised that they wrote back at all (I just wanted to "go through the motions" so at least I would know that I've "covered that base already" so to speak) as any other questions (besides my question as to whether Mick's "Mojo" band CD would be released in some form later on after the initial "giveaway" of it to his club members to which the answer was "yes" (once again in a "secret" PM as they obviously don't want fans to know that either and I had to wade through all of the talk of how "the club members would get it first" before the "yes" (to the "yes or no" question I had asked him) appeared in the PM) hence why I won't be joining that club but that's another story...) I have asked there have gone unanswered. Naturally, the more straight the answer the better but this flowery stuff is how they have chosen to do it and as they have chosen to do it "secretly" (via PM's like this to those like me who have asked about it) this is why I thought I would post it here so anyone else wishing to ask about these matters need not waste their time as this is what they would get if they were to do so. Since they refuse to make it "public", I will. :)

I hope this doesn't cause any problems for you Marty as that was not my intention. :)

I AM thrilled though (more than anything else) that you have remained true to your FM vision/site as The Penguin REALLY is the way a Mac site SHOULD be and as you say, although it does keep one VERY busy keeping on top of ALL things Mac (!), it is worth it in the end, if not for us, to let the rest of the cyber world know that regardless of what those in official places say, THIS is the place to come for your FM needs, that they have an alternative and don't have to accept their (edited/flowery) version of what FM is (etc.). Heaven forbid the facts speak for themselves. :)

It surely can't be the first time where an "unofficial" site is far superior to an "official" band site either. :)

John

John--

Thanks for the compliments and for your help with the site. I'm curious though-- how would a lack of non-Rumours lineup related material on the official sites cause me any problems?

- Marty

Marty
 

You're very welcome! :)

I just meant I hope me posting that PM doesn't cause you any problems as, even though I have read them and seem to understand them well, I wouldn't want to cross the line on the terms & conditions of the use of the ledge without realizing it.

Also, you never know who could be upset by such things. It seems pretty obvious (to me anyways) that some of the mickfleetwood.com people lurk here and I thought they may not take kindly to me passing this piece of truth along to the other fans here and would take it up with you (as I would imagine that if they wanted to make these facts "public" then they surely would have done so by now in some form so I was left to assume that they didn't want it posted. Maybe not, but it looks like they obviously feel that the number of fans of all non Rumours FM (minus Peter Green) is so small that they could handle getting their "feelings" on the matter out to those "few" people who ask about it by PMing them all seperately when they ask so they can keep up their facade on their site the way they want which will obviously include fleetwoodmac.com too since they/he will be running that too (if they even have a message board there). Naturally, they are entitled to that but as I'm sure many FM fans of ANY FM lineup/member(s) know, we have to wade through all of their fluffy talk just to get to the answers we seek and I decided to post this to make it easier for "those few" (in their minds) who were curious about it so they would know once and for all "how they feel" on this subject (as unfortunate as it is and even though it has been suspected upon for quite a while now, it is the confirmed, official truth). Though there is much "fluffiness" to wade through to get the answer here, at least it IS AN answer which is more than what has been "said" elsewhere about it in an "official" way).

Also, I have no problem with that/those official site(s) talking about BN (& PG) FM, that's great, BUT it's not EVERYTHING! ChiliD & I (and probably others) seem to have this stigma follow us that "as we like other FM lineups/members, that therefore means we don't like the BN lineup/members" and I don't know why some seem to think that because we never said it, meant it or whatever. We don't let it bother us because WE (and the others that fall in to this "category") know what we like and that's all that matters. :)

In addition, this is not my "idea of fun" as was also said earlier in this thread, I just wanted to go through the administrative process I needed to go through in order to feel that "I've been there, done that (etc.)". I KNEW either one of two things would happen:

1. No reply or...

2. (which admittedly was the more suprising of the two, not in what they said, but just that they replied) that they would say "well, tough, we're going to ignore that they existed anyways".

...and I prefer option 2 as now we know, fine, end of story, just don't know why they couldn't just come out and say it already, they'd save themselves a lot of time and effort being bugged by the "few" like me. :)

I guess I often worry about inadvertantly causing controversy when all I meant to do is pass on info and I just mean to take part/answer some threads here as how I see them (just as others here do) but I'm glad that it hasn't (or doesn't seem to have...) caused any problems for you (so far) and I hope it stays that way as well! :)

John

A band wishing to ignore its own history, its own members, its own music and therefore its own special place in the history of rock music, is more than I can bare. Of course we knew it all along, but still it's unbelievable. It's hard to be a fan.

Anna

You know that Mick Fleetwood makes me sick sometimes, how can I forget BTM and Time when he always goes on about how Fleetwood mac will always continue no matter what, and then completely dismisses all those who he has worked with since 1988

He sounds like he really doesn't care about FM after 1988.

That's really a shame, because he really had two GEMS in Billy Burnette and Rick Vito. :nod:


If word of this gets out to the former members of FM, no doubt a lot of hard feelings will be formed. Billy has been a friend of Mick's for a LONG time...he was in Mick's band The Zoo for YEARS before joining FM, so for him to discount his being in the band for nearly 10 years would be in really poor taste. :distress:

Just my opinion.


Michele :wavey:

I think many of us agree with you, Michele. It makes me squirm uncomfortably to think that Billy might hear that he's been in effect blotted out of Fleetwood Mac's history. That's absolutely horrible. He isn't my favorite FM member of all time, but the guy helped save the band's ass for that first tour after Buckingham left, & he played with them for years. How can you treat your friends that way? When I think of how Billy always stood up for Fleetwood Mac & spoke of them in hushed, awed tones, & how he always said he was a huge fan of Lindsey Buckingham blah blah blah & how he thought Stevie Nicks was so great blah blah blah & how he spoke so lovingly of Christine blah blah blah ... give the poor guy the satisfaction of reminding the world that he was in the group, too.

Billy was always very good to the Mac, but it seems they didn't exactly return the goodwill.

Hey David,

I just had another thought....I'm willing to be that's why Rick Vito will not discuss the reason(s) why he left the band in 1990.

I wouldn't be surprised if Billy is already aware of all this....he's never been given the credit he deserved for anything else he's done, so I wouldn't be surprised if the word has spread to him already....:distress:


Billy has been good friends with Christine for YEARS....even BEFORE he joined the Mac...he appeared with her in 1984 in her solo album concert with George Hawkins,Jr. and Todd Sharp. He still keeps in touch with Christine, as they are still good friends. Billy made mention of this during his Q&A.

Stevie also said how much more relaxed things were when Billy and Rick were in the band. Stevie was ALSO a friend of Billy's BEFORE he joined the band. Rick was also part of Stevie's "Street Angel" tour, and that was 4 years AFTER he left the Mac.

Billy and Rick are also very good friends, as they have performed together on a couple of occasions in the past couple of years.

My thinking is, if there are going to be hard feelings here, it will probably be with Mick and maybe possibly Lindsey too...as it seemes that he also pretty much ignores the fact that Billy and Rick were in the band.

As you said, it's "absolutely horrible". :distress:

Michele "The Billy Freak" :wavey:

The same can be said about Bob Welch, too.

Bob Welch saw them through five albums and lots of disruptions, as Burnette, Bramlett and Vito saw them through two albums and not simply disappearing. Someone bought those records and saw those shows. For them to all get treated badly at all now doesn't elevate the B&N incarnation to me, it just denigrates other musicians. I can imagine them feeling like they were sorry they bothered to contribute. In fact I wonder sometimes why B&N being so totally brilliant ever joined the drummer, keyboardist and bass player who could have turned out such other shameful recordings that they now want to pretend they don't exist. Can you say it's insecurity? Pretty weird. At least Nicks seems to still validate Bob Welch's existance. Probably the more they try to ignore and hide these other albums the more curious some people will get anyway. Pandering is lame, and the more they pander to the Rumours 'era or mystique' or whatever it is the more I shake my head. Letting the fans run your band is a big big mistake. Hopefully they've made an interesting album and not just slapped some kind of self indulgent Rumours retro sound alike attempt together to make money. Hopefully they really wanted to work together again for creative reasons and not for lack of support or new things to try.

Maybe one day he will aknowledge there existance

I cant see any of them attending his funeral though

Bob's only "bad blood" is with Mick, John & Chris...he says that he's still friends with Stevie & Lindsey.

Where does Bob say all this, do you have any interview excerpts?

Read his Q&A here on the Penguin.

will do and thus recieve a full compliment again ;):laugh: :nod: :wavey: :p ;)

It's really good reading.

*agrees* although I wasn't really sure about Billy at first, but he's a great singer, songwriter and guitarist.

I thought that Rick & Billy were great additions...they gave FMac a more varied set list than they'd had in years; pulling a few Peter Green gems out of the closet, dusting off Lindsey's "Don't Let Me Down Again", as well as playing the latest material with equal aplomb. They even brought "Gold Dust Woman" back from the dead...since they hadn't played it since the Rumours tour.

Rick Vito songs that should've been Fleetwood Mac songs:

I'll Never Leave This Love Alive
Intuition
Desiree
I Still Have My Guitar
Honey Love

Billy Burnette songs that should've been Fleetwood Mac songs:

Don't Say No
The Bigger The Love
I Recovered, I Survived
Gone Again
It Ain't Over
Try Me

Hey I finally got to see some of Mick's site and he is selling Bare Trees, so the non PG or BN is not entirely erased.

Considering what it says on that pre-order form, I'll bet he's not selling Behind the Mask and Time on his site.

Yeah, no doubt! :)

I think "post PG pre BN" is a gray area as it seems like part of Mick would want to "hide" that time as well due to his fights with Welch, them not being as commercially successful (heaven forbid!) etc. but he knows it has to link between the 2 areas he will acknowledge and "Bare trees" is probably more acceptable to him since Welch only has two songs on it and Danny was the main force behind it and since he was there in the "good old Peter Green days" (as Welch calls them)...Just a thought.

John