We Are So Lucky
 

We are so lucky...

Because we have Stevie Nicks. We are fans and we know her magic.

I just feel sorry for those not touched by her songs, her voice, even her life. They are definitely missing something.

I just saw her on Divas Live and she just lit up the stage...everyone was mesmerized and then she got the standing O because of her beautiful presence.

No one is like her!!!

Very well said Janet!

Pip

Sometimes I know my friends think I am cracked, because Stevie doesn't really seem to fit into their musical schemes...but I have never cared. When Stevie says she hopes her music can take people away for a little bit...well, it has! When I'm by myself its virtually all I listen to. If I'm sad there are songs that touch me...if I'm angry there are songs that touch me. I'm not a fan that ever wanted to really be like Stevie -or try and write mystical poetry- or to paint misty scenes with maidens. But in some small way I think we are all similar...we like the mysterious, the ambiguous. And we all like to be taken away, at least for a little while. Who else can do that as well as Stevie can? No one.

I think
 

if you had to sum up Stevie in one word it would be

MAGICAL

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Tunnel Visioned-Janet??
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Janet
[B]We are so lucky...

I just feel sorry for those not touched by her songs, her voice, even her life. They are definitely missing something.

__________________

Hold up. You're sayin that non-Stevie people's lives are lacking if they don't like her or have heard her and were'n't like blown away by her? Who's the "we" here? That's like saying people that are jewish are "missing something" cause they don't believe in Jesus. :lol: It's all individual what people like and don't like. Live and let live. I could care less who likes Stevie and who doesn't. I like her fine, but the music world is a BIG PLACE and there are peeps 100 times better than her! People who don't like her aren't "missing" anything if they haven't heard her or Fleetwood Mac music. You can't "miss" what you have never experieced or do not want to experience, since it was never there in the first place for anyone who hasn't heard her. :wavey:

True that, WWO(NOT Adam,I am so sorry about that,again)..I mean..i think Stevie's music is great and all..but i have plenty of friends who just don't listen to her and the Mac,period..they have their own favorites..and they aren't really missing anything in their lives...they are just touched by something different.

That's cool, Sarah. Some other dude called me "dear" on another thread! I think that's worse than being called Adam. :lol:

Re: Re: We Are So Lucky
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WhiteWingedOne
[B]
Oh please give it up......go post on the Lindsey board and talk about his genius where you are obviously more comfortable......

Calm Down Weezie!!
 

yeezus! why do I need to do that? why would anyone need to do that? and just who are you to tell what/which/where board people can use to post their thoughts on? :confused: Last time I checked, I was on a public message board. I can express myself fairly well for a kid AND answer someone (and btw honey lamb I wasn't talkin' to you! ;) ) AND I sure am not the only one who knows Stephanie Nicks doesnt' have floral farts and poops vanilla ice cream ;) Any doubts just look at the number of views of this thread vs the number of replies. There's the reality check for your day. :wavey: You can just give it up first! :nod: :wavey: WWO

I know that some people get annoyed when I do this... but before this has a chance to get out of hand, I'd like to once again remind all and sundry to please conduct themselves in a respectful fashion.

All views are allowed here, and everyone should be comfortable expressing their own opinion.


Thank you,
Johnny Stew

Re: We Are So Lucky
 

ITA, Janet. I have pretty much been a Stevie fan my whole life, as I can remember my mom listening to her when I was growing up. But I also remember the time that I first listened and actually "got" the message she was trying to send. After that, I went and bought BD, WH, the White Album, and Tusk. (I already had RAL, OSOTM, Tango, and, lol... my mom's copy of Rumours:D ) and I listened to them all, even the ones I already had, straight through. I was just amazed. Beyond amazed. And I truly do kick myself for not realizing it (her "message") sooner...because I sure could have used the support her words and music have provided since, many times over, back then.

~~Angela~~:wavey:

What exaclty is this message anyway?
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by EnchantedStorms
[B]


After that, I went and bought BD, WH, the White Album, and Tusk. (I already had RAL, OSOTM, Tango, and, lol... my mom's copy of Rumours:D ) and I listened to them all, even the ones I already had, straight through. I was just amazed. Beyond amazed. And I truly do kick myself for not realizing it (her "message") sooner...

_____________

well her message for the most part says "SOS LINDSEY!!!!" :lol: Stevie's really a little girl and she needs a lot of help sharpening her crayons when she writes her songs. They aren't bad songs, they're just written like a schoolgirl with her head in the clouds. I am still waiting for a 53 year old Stevie to come out and give me some more "I know what I am saying now cause I am old" lyrics. :( She has this in her!:nod: She's older than my mom and my mom said this too. :D

Her message is about life. About love. About pain. And about how to deal with it all. Some people, even if they have heard Stevie's songs before, still don't like it. They don't "get" it. Not that that is a terrible thing. To each his own. BUT....I do know what she has given ME over the years. And I can say that I have seriously BENEFITED from it. I think all anyone is trying to say is that they, knowing what THEY have gained, wish that everyone could experience that same enrichment. NOT that they are worse off for NOT having listened and liked what they heard, but that they COULD be enlightened, or enriched, if they could get the same enjoyment, fulfillment, and understanding as the ones that do get it.

~~Angela~~:wavey:

yeah so what's the revelation here???
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by EnchantedStorms
[B]Her message is about life. About love. About pain. And about how to deal with it all. ]

_______________


yeah ok! but that's what "music" is all about!! about those 4 elements. SO!! every single song ever written by anyone, anywhere, at any time in HISTORY tells the same damn story or stories. Love gained, love goes, girl comes, boy goes. Different words are used that's all. Some write the songs in crayon, some use pen, some use computers and some used the walls of caves.
I agree with Christine McVie who said once alot of Stevie's lyrics are "rubbish" cause they just are! I don't get anything out of

"she stairs at the stairs blah blah so many things to stare at" or

"well you've been asleep well I've been asleep for how long she says."

Stoner junk. But if it turns you on!! :wavey: :wavey:

wow. Your post is "slightly" different this morning, than it was last night. The one last night (or rather, EARLIER this morning, lol) was a lot friendlier....at least towards Stevie...IMO. Anyway...I can see this is going to turn into yet another bashing thread and, I think I said before, I don't have time for them. Stoner junk? Um, no. I've smoked pot two times in my life, and that was more than enough for me, I saw no need to try any of the other, harder stuff. But--"she stares at the stairs, there's so many things to stare at these days"....Is one of my favorite lines of Stevie's. Ever been so down...so let down...by life, that you just don't have the energy for anything ? Maybe you are young enough that you haven't had to experience anything, yet, that has been so traumatizing, or life-altering. Well, when you are told that you will never have children of your own...that is enough to make you "sit and stare" at everything, at nothing...for a LONG time...trying to figure out where in the hell your life is going now . As I said before...to each his own. You obviously don't "get" Stevie. That's fine. Just don't bash the people who do. As for Christine's quote...it makes me laugh, but then, I don't think she "gets" Stevie's message 3/4 of the time, either. Yes, every songwriter out there writes about love, life, etc. But SOME know how to do it in a way that "strikes a chord" with some people. Stevie happens to do that for me, and for a lot of people that frequent this board. I suppose we all just get tired of feeling like we have to explain ourselves, and defend her, all the time. There was another post, on one of the lengthy threads on this subject, that detailed WHY we are so quick to defend her. Very good post. You should go read it.

Oh, and doesn't Stevie usually use a typewriter when she writes? Think I remember reading that somewhere.

~~Angela~~:wavey:

Oh man! Get a grip!
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by EnchantedStorms
[B]But--"she stares at the stairs, there's so many things to stare at these days"....Is one of my favorite lines of Stevie's. Ever been so down...so let down...by life, that you just don't have the energy for anything ?

let down by life? Nope! Sorry to disappoint you! you get up, and move on. self pity sucks and it bores people too. which may be another reason why some of her songs are really bad. :lol:



"You obviously don't "get" Stevie. That's fine."

no, I get her. I just don't LIKE HER 24/7 and I DON'T HAVE TO and I think she writes some real LAME-O stuff just to gett attention. That is my opinion. Don't like my opinion no one is making you read them right? :nod:

" Just don't bash the people who do. "

uh welll hellloooooo :wavey:....I havent bashed ANYONE. matter of fact I said in my post whatever turns you on! So Scroll on up and read that. I am just HONEST about my liking or not liking stevie nicks. I refuse to be shot at with canons. what a huge shock that I defend MY positiion! ;) If anything, you are bashing people who opinions are different than yours and that is really against Freedom of Speech. Some of you get so militant about her it's AUTOMATIC "bashing" if anyone disagrees with you and the worship stuff. :nod: Get over it already. ;)


"As for Christine's quote...it makes me laugh, but then, I don't think she "gets" Stevie's message 3/4 of the time, either."


Oh Good. Someone on my side, and it's someone who IS a briliant songwriter and who IS someone who knows her. :lol:

"I suppose we all just get tired of feeling like we have to explain ourselves, and defend her, all the time."

well just Who is "we." Is the Ledge for Stevie FANS ONLY? :confused: This is a message board where people can express their opinions FOR or AGAINST Stevie. Keep saying "Public Messsage board....public message board....public message board" until that sinks in. :nod:

"Oh, and doesn't Stevie usually use a typewriter when she writes?"

Only when she's out of crayons. :wavey:

Ummmm

I wasn't trying to say she's better than any other Fleetwood Maccer...they are all great.

Im just saying, Stevie RIGHT NOW...at 54...shes pretty amazing. She's been through **** and she remained on top of it all. Thats all I was saying. It wasn't a door to analyze lyrics or to say if YOU don't have her in your life you're pathetic. It was just like...Stevie is cool and everyone should at least give her a chance.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Janet

" She's been through **** and she remained on top of it all. "

ok that's interesting to say that. But I would say that sentence needs some work. How about "she put HERSELF through **** and finally hit rock bottom (in her case a fireplace OUCH) and then pulled herself out of the ****." that's MUCH more realistic. :nod: She sure was never on top of it all meaning all her problems and such or she never would have turned to coke. Has she been on top of her decisions she would have been strong enough to "just say no" to the klonopin and valium, too. We all make CHOICES and she made a load of real bad ones and paid the price. again, dudes, the truth is hard to accept sometimes! :rolleyes:

Angela.......that was all very well put in all of your posts!!!!

Oh WhiteWingedOne, can I ask you something? If you can't stand Stevie Nicks so much, and all things and conversations Stevie Nicks, if it's such junk and rubbish, then why oh why do we have a user id name of "WhiteWingedOne"--obviously pulled from lyrics of her songs.........and if you can find so many better things to talk about and so much better music to listen to, why do you even bother to waste your precious time by coming here? Even though I do have my own ideas of why, I was just curious as to the reasons you would like us all to believe. Isn't there some Seseame Street message board you can go and use your immature language on and pick fights on??
Where did Stevie borrow her crayons from? You????
"Peeps", "honey lamb", "floral farts", "poops vanilla ice cream", "you can just give it up first" (no you, no you, no you--was your tongue actually sticking out while you typed this?--my friends and I used to fight like this, you know........WHEN WE WERE FIVE!!!!!), "LAME-O", "uh well hellloooooo", "dudes"...............
OH GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!

I mean, call me crazy, and pardon my rear if this is incorrect. But need I remind you or anyone else that normally websites and message boards such as this one are set up and maintained because somebody REALLY LIKES something or somebody and they want to discuss them/it with others who REALLY LIKE the same thing/people. Last time I CHECKED, you were "on a public message board" that was set up to discuss what is GREAT about Fleetwood Mac and all of it's members, and also to keep fans informed on things that are happening with the band, it's members, albums, tv appearances, magazine articles, etc. etc.

Marty, I guess I would like to direct this question toward you: do you not wholeheartedly enjoy and absolutely love Fleetwood Mac and all of it's various members and want to share that love with some civilized people on your message board??

Maybe I was falsely mistaken when I signed up on this board and started posting a couple years ago. Anymore, this is getting to be obsurd and out of hand!!!!

So, from where I'm standing, incesant bashing and criticizing of various members (in particular, Stevie Nicks, who takes the brunt of the beating) is bringing the majority of the folks here down, and is helping bring this message board down. It's not serving the purpose that the majority of the people who come here are looking for, myself included.

Thank you ever so much for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stephanie

:distress: :distress: :mad: :distress: :distress: :distress:

I don't think there was anything inherently wrong with the statement Janet made, in exactly the form she made it.

Stevie *has* been thru some difficult things. Everyone in this world has.
It's pretty much assumed that some of the difficulties we face are of our own doing, and some of them are just the cards we are dealt... so that much can be left unsaid.

I really don't think Stevie wants anyone's pity. I also don't think that she feels, or would want anyone else to feel, that she is a victim. It seems to me that she takes full responsibility for the "mistakes" she has made in her life.
For example, when she speaks of the doctor prescribing the Klonopin, she has never once said that it was force-fed to her. She's explained *why* she consented to take it, and she's talked about the state of mind she was in when it was prescribed for her, but she's never said that she wasn't fully responsible for her own decision there... or in regards to any of the other things she's gone thru in her life.

As far as the self-pity thing... well, I haven't met a person yet who hasn't felt sorry for themselves at least once in their life, however briefly.
Beyond that, none of Stevie's lyrics have ever hit me as excessively self-pitying. And trust me, if they were, then I would have bored of them a long time ago.

The basic theme that I've always found within her lyrics is one of empathy.
She's saying, "hey, I've been thru it too, and yeah, it hurts, but I got thru it and so will you."

At the very least that's what *I* get from her songs... and I think a lot of others do, as well.


Now, I almost let this point drop, but I might as well touch upon it too...
Calling Christine a "brilliant songwriter," is just as subjective as calling Stevie one. And it's a statement which can be argued with just as much ferocity.

For all intents and purposes, there is nothing deep about Christine's lyrics. She writes upbeat pop ditties about love lost and love found.
She also writes beautiful ballads... about love lost and love found.
That's the extent of it.

There are no great political or social statements being made within Christine's, Stevie's, or even Lindsey's lyrics.

What IS brilliant about Christine's music is the same thing that is brilliant about Stevie's (as well as Lindsey's)... their words reach people. They entertain, and at their best, they have the power to inspire.

We each have our favorites within this band, and whether we admit it or not, we each defend our appreciation of our particular favorite(s)... I just can't see why so few people are able to accept and respect that fact.

There's no need for someone to tear down one member, just because they like another.
"I'm right, and your wrong" arguments are pointless, because there IS no right or wrong.
Debates are terrific, and can be very interesting and engaging... but at some point all parties simply have to agree to disagree. Or... in the best of all possible worlds... open their eyes to *both* points of view



Johnny Stew

Thank you Johnny Stew....
 

hooray, someone who gets it all.........:nod: :nod: :nod:

Just call me a picker....
 

I really want to be a pain in the arse today...LMAO!!

Lindsey's song, Murrow is kind of a political statement, isn't it...even tho it's not an "official" song, it's only a GOS demo, still. LMAO!! I just want to be a thorn in your side for a small time there Johnny Stew. I'm not BASHING Stevie by saying that, just wanted to make an observation that hit me when I read your post.

OMG...what am I about to do...OMG...STEVIE RULES!!! :D

The Ledge isn't just for Stevie fans..but, hello....isn't this the Stevie forum?? Yes people can express opinions for and against but you seem to want to stuff it down our throats! In your opinion Stevie rights some lame song...like a schoolgirl with her head in the clouds??? Hmm...well she must be doing something right. Your opinion is obviously important to you but you need to chill a little and accept other points of view too....that is what it is like in the grown up world of a debate. Perhaps you should check in when you have outgrown your crayons

Pip

Re: Just call me a picker....
 

*giggles*
You got me on that one, Christy. :laugh:

Maybe i should have said, "99.8% of the time, there are no great political or social statements being made...."
:D


Johnny Stew

*Wink...wink*
 

...to Johnny Stew!! Aren't I the smart-aleck today? ;)

You Love to Attack Newbies, that's all
 

You first. And to the Stevie Fan person who mentioned my screen name. To my knowledge STEVIE's lyric refers to a WHITE WINGED---> DOVE. I call myself White Winged --->ONE because I used to raise birds AND I HAPPEN TO LIKE SOME IF NOT MOST STEVIE NICKS HITS. so do me a favor and get off my freakin' back already. I will post my opnions and if you don't like me put me into your ignore list! not too hard is it Pippy Longwinded?? Yeesh!!!! :laugh: :distress: :laugh: :distress: :cool:

ok I will handle you seperately
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rumours

"Oh WhiteWingedOne, can I ask you something?"

No. :lol: oh ok--go ahead :rolleyes:

"If you can't stand Stevie Nicks so much, and all things and conversations Stevie Nicks, if it's such junk and rubbish, then why oh why do we have a user id name of "WhiteWingedOne"--obviously pulled from lyrics of her songs........"

hey! I NEVER said I couldn't stand Stevie Nicks. NEVER! so don't put words in my mouth. I never said her songs were junk, i said some of her crappier lyrics were "stoner junk" and the "rubbish" is what Chris McVie thinks of SN's songs! :lol:


"Isn't there some Seseame Street message board you can go and use your immature language on and pick fights on??"

Don't know. I love Sesame Street though. Especially Miss Piggie. so I will definitately check it out. thanks for the lead. :wavey:

"I mean, call me crazy"

ok You're crazy. :lol:

"Last time I CHECKED, you were "on a public message board" that was set up to discuss what is GREAT about Fleetwood Mac and all of it's members"

there a lots of discussions here about what's really BAD about Fleetwood Mac and it all it's members and usualley that results in a Stevie Nicks discussion. :lol: :wavey: now you can get off my back too. I can express myself the way I want it's Freedom of Speech. Have a nice day! :wavey: :

Stevie Nicks
 

I'd like to reiterate that sentiment because I wholeheartedly believe that's what Stevie does best. She makes us feel good and lets us escape from our problems. Well said and kudos to you ricohv.

And hey if someone else doesn't like it....I say who cares?!


Joe

I love to attack newbies??? Um...if you say so, oh word of wisdom one.

Pippy Longwinded...try to be a little but more original next time

Pip

Miss Piggie on Sesame Street?? Never saw that in my childhood.

Ok, well I think people who take drugs are pretty much losers. My father died of a heroine overdose and I think he's a loser.

But to get to that point where you depend on it...it means you are just trying to cover up alot of pain. God knows I have alot of pain and its a struggle to get thru the day sometimes...I know something like drugs would make it easier for a while...but I know after awhile it would ruin my life.

Stevie didn't have it all that hard...but then it got hard She did lose her best friend in the whole world. She did have to give up babies for her career. She did go thru one bad relationship after another. She did have to juggle two careers and make everyone happy. She did have a marriage that was fake and a child that she couldn't even speak to after awhile ...even though she promised Robin shed take care of everything. She did have to go thru alot of bad press because she took a stand and did things a bit differently than everyone else.

She went through hell and she pulled herself up from the terrible world of drugs she was living in...she cured herself and started over....how many artists over 50 still have careers as strong as hers? NOT MANY.

do you know musicians over 50 at all?
 

either your kidding or you don't listen to any music :lol: Careers as strong as hers? She vanished for YEARS!! :lol: here's my list that includes all rock stars and groups where they are all in their fifties and still performing on some level or another. The females in this group have more albums/tours and constistency going for them than stevie could ever imagine having! here we go and thanks Dad for getting me into 70's music:

Cher
Tina Turner
Linda Ronstat
Ann and Nancy Wilson
Maryann Faithful
The Stones
Rod
Barry Manilow
Neil Diamond
The Who (two left and still rockin)
Bobby Vinton
Arosmith
Meatloaf
KC and the Sunshine Band.
Carly Simon
Carole King
Babarra Striesand
Ozzie Osbourbe
Don Henley
Eric Clapton
Peter Green
Phil Collins



I will think of some more but this should get you started knowing there is plenty of success and long life out there and just aboaut ALL these poeple have taken drugs and surived. So Stevie is special in her own way but she ain't all that and a bag of chips when you read my list.


:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Even AT my age, I know these are CHOICES people make. too bad Dr. Phil wasn't around to slap some sense into Stevie huh? oh and she didn't give up the babies. She conveniently got rid of them(poof! all gone!!) becasue she was into drugs and selfishness. there are many good Rock Moms out there! so let's not sugar coat! speak the truth! why is everyone so afraid! :rolleyes: :distress: :rolleyes: :distress:

Okay...I actually said nothing about self pity. I happen to agree with you on that. It DOES suck. And I cannot stand it. But, at the same time, sometimes there are things that happen to people in their lives that they cannot control, or maybe they COULD have...but didn't know how...and the aftermath sort of sends you into shock for awhile. Yeah, eventually you get up, and move on...but there IS a period where you have to figure out HOW to DO that. So, yeah...there have been times when I've "sat and stared at the stairs".

I bashed no one. I simply said, that the ones that DO get it wish that everyone could receive the same fulfillment from it that they do. We want to share. ONLY because we know what she's done for us. How she's helped us.

Wonderful. You "get" Christine. I happen to love her music, too. But to say she is brilliant, and (part/most of/"whatever") Stevie's work is "rubbish" or "stoner junk" IS a matter of OPINION. Just because you, or Christine, or whoever says it's so, doesn't make it true, and I don't think you're going to convince anyone here--by that I mean the "Stevie" board--that is a fan of hers, to believe any different.


Thank you, Stephanie!:D And ditto...to you.:nod: lol

Oh, and don't think I ever saw Miss Piggie on Sesame Street, either. Now, Oscar the Grouch....definitely Sesame Street.:nod:

~~Angela~~:wavey:

Holy S**t...I haven't been on here since last night and look at what has transpired...damn...i do have to say,we are a lively bunch...I already stated my opinion about original subject of the thread,which seems to have gotten lost amidst the quarreling..but i just have to say,give it a rest..people are gonna have different views...sometimes we aren't gonna like them,but the fact is,that no matter how much be protest,they aren't gonna change..so why waste our time arguing???

Well said!!! LETS STOP IT, b4 threads have to be closed!!!!! I'm also talking about those in the Rumours forum that have grown to be rediculous in length:rolleyes: This will be the last time I check this thread, so lets end it here, for everyone's sake!

~Alex

PEACE OUT!:wavey:

Re: We Are So Lucky
 

What an attrocious thing to say! You "feel sorry for those not touched by her songs." So you may succeed at your job, have a beautiful spouse, beautiful kids, feel at peace with yourself and the universe. But if you're not a Stevie fan, you're merely worthy of pity? Wow!

Well...
 

I guess I can say the same thing about Lindsey, I WISH everyone liked Lindsey and that he got the recognition he deserves, but alas, twas not meant to be. We are blessed with the great music we have in this world, but I must agree with Carne here in that if you don't like or know Stevie's stuff, you are not a "poor soul". People like what they like, and that's that. Not everyone loves Journey, Aerosmith, BBMak, The Monkees, DC Talk, Amy Grant, Michael W Smith, but I love each and every one of them, and I wish everyone loved them as much as I do and knew the magic in their music, but they don't. :shrug: Oh well...waddayagannado? Not trying to spark a LB vs SN debate, just stating my opinon, Janet. ROCK ON!!

My new motto: Listen with an open mind...

I guess I should have read the whole thread before posting that last one. But it just struck me as so outlandish that I couldn't keep from rushing to post something.

How humorous that some of the same arguments I made a couple months ago are getting the same response. At least folks are consistent around here.

WWO, if you haven't gotten a "strike," you're probably well on your way. That crack about pippy something or other should do it. Invoking Freedom of Speech will get you nowhwere here, because soon enough the owner of the board will inform you it's a private board and so long as you abide by his rules, you can stay.

Just keep in mind some of Stevie's hardcore fans would rather live in a fantasy world. Facts and logic are often foreign to some folks.

OMG WWO:laugh: That last part was pretty funny. I love the woman to death but that was funny.

there yah go!
 

see now, the truth can be funny too. The major problem is getting people to see that. Stevie does live in a world that is not mine. Or yours. Or even her worshippers. THAT IS MY POINT! so weezie and pippie yah gettin it yet?????:wavey: :wavey: She lives in a world she has made for herself that doesn't include ANY NORMAL ACTIVITIES! Let's go bowling, Stevie! Huh?? What?? What's THAT?? Let's go to the cash machine! Huh?? Cash??? Huh??? Let's go to the ladies room for a tampon! HUh?? I am a cartoon character!! I don't have periods!!! (:lol: I just saw Annie Hall with my Dad and Mom and that line cracked me up! :lol: cause I;m sure there are people who think she's never been on the rag, either! and neither have I but I hear it's nazzztay! :lol:) :wavey: The WWO