Interesting numbers...
 

Number of songs each singer/writer has on each album:

White Album:
Lindsey: 5 (counting WT lead with CM)
Stevie: 2
Christine: 5 (counting WT lead with LB)

Rumours:
Lindsey: 6 (counting The Chain, IDWTK and Don't Stop)
Stevie: 2
Christine: 4 (counting Dont' Stop lead with LB)

Tusk:
Lindsey: 10 (counting Think About Me lead with CM)
Stevie: 5
Christine: 6 (counting Think About Me lead with LB)

Mirage:
Lindsey: 5
Stevie: 3
Christine: 4

Tango in the Night:
Lindsey: 5
Stevie: 3
Christine: 4

Interesting.....to me, anyways! LOL Lindsey in the lead, with Christine, then Stevie.

Just a little clarification... Stevie wrote three tracks on 'Fleetwood Mac,' even though Lindsey sings lead on "Crystal."

She also wrote three tracks on 'Rumours,' but shared lead vocals with Lindsey for "I Don't Want To Know."


:)
Johnny Stew

And....
 

You might want to actually calculate the minutes each writer has on the FM records. Stevie's songs are always the longer ones with Lindsey's being the shortest. I'd think that each member would be pretty even then....especially on Tusk.


Joe

interesting numbers.
 

you can calculate all you what, but stevie writes and bangs a tamborine.... the MUSIC, for the most part, is left up to the rest of the group......


THANK GOD FOR LINDSEY.....

I don't dispute that Lindsey is indeed a god....but let's just remember who wrote Fleetwood Mac only Rumours line-up Number 1

Pip

Re: interesting numbers.
 

Haha, well put! Her contributions only go so far...
-Brian

Apparently this is turning into yet another Stevie bashing thread....Her contribution to Fleetwood Mac is BIG, which really in no way should be belittled by any FM fan. Her role in FM could not be topped by any one.

Lindsey is a great musican and his contributions to FM should not be overlooked either.

FM is a BAND with each member making it what it is. It's always been a democracy with each member getting equal time...any way you want to slice it....which really was the original intent of the thread.

Joe

I'm not all pro- Stevie...but really,can you honestly say the Rumours line-up of the Mac,sans Stevie,would have been as sucessful?? Everyone i have ever met who i mention the name Fleetwood Mac to always goes "Oh,you mean Stevie Nicks"?? The fact is,she was a great focal point for the band with her performances in the beginning...and as time went on it became obvious what a great lyricist she was...put that together with that golden voice..and you have a winning combo..she didn't need the Mac after the first few years..but she loves her band and never wanted to give that up...

DOH!
 

I did NOT start this thread to BASH anyone...I love them ALL, I was just bored on Thursday night and counted up how many songs each singer had!! AAHH!! They ALL contribute A CRAPLOAD of talent to this band...FULL STOP!!! (Thanks, seteca. LOL!)

And, Johnny Stew, I forgot to clarify the Crystal thing and the IDWYK. Oopsie. I thought I got all the "wierd combos".

Christy the bashing remark was not aimed at you, it was for baugh who "dropped in" to make a whole slew of very derogatory remarks about Stevie on various threads in the Rumours forum. I don't think the original intent of the thread was to slam anyone...sorry you misunderstood my comments.

Oh and by the way I would like to make one more "clarification"....All FIVE members get credit on "The Chain". ;)


PEACE


Joe

Johnny Stew...
 

I know...I wanted to clarify to EVERYONE that my intentions were not to bash anyone. HAHA Yes, The Chain...maybe I should redo my list! LMAO!! I must've been tired...

Folks, calm down!

I think what happens here is that the Stevie fans feel slighted that she gets fewer songs on albums though she's had the most popularity.

But think of how us Lindsey fans feel. Without him, there would be no Fleetwood Mac sound. All we would have is a spectrum of sound and style differences throughout the years without any cohesion. If not for Lindsey, who gave Fleetwood Mac the sound we all know Fleetwood Mac for, the band probably would have stayed in the outskirts of oblivion forever. It would have disappeared in the mid 70s, I'm sure. Kudos to Mick for spotting the great talent that Lindsey is. And remember, Mick didn't even want Stevie in the first place!

Yet Lindsey is totally underrated. He hardly, or rarely, shows up on "best guitarist" lists and historically he has gotten very little of the band's spotlight. In my estimation, he only really started getting his due when the Dance came out.

Stevie wrote some great songs. That is absolutely a fact. But starting in the mid 80s, her stuff became mediocre. And I believe that a lot of people around here would agree with that.

I agree, CarneVaca.
And to those who think that you have to love everything that Stevie does and believe that she can do no wrong in order to call yourself a fan, I disagree.
She's written some great songs and some not so good songs (and some pretty bad songs too as a matter of fact).
That said, i still have the audacity to call myself a Stevie Nicks fan.

*angie

Just my two cents as both a FM fan and Stevie fan, I think one thing the non-Stevie fans who are totally entitled to their opinion need to understand is that us Stevie fans have had to endure lots of bad press and social put-downs about Stevie, both past and present...Stevie is a no-talent, Stevie is a has-been, Stevie is fat and lazy, Stevie is this, Stevie is that. It has been this way always since the beginning, just read some Rolling Stone articles and you can understand how belittleing it can be to be a Stevie fan. and it was especially hard during the late 80's and early 90's but we made it through.

And with each literary arrow/dagger thrown her way, the social structure continues to try and make her fans feel stupid to enjoy her music/personna. And so we have become more tighter and adamant in her defense. including on this board. I know it can be especially hard on those Stevie fans who come to this board to share their enthusiasm and love of Stevie and her music, They can be gravely disappointed when other FM fans have their own favorites including negative Stevie opinions. But please know that our extreme defense of Stevie comes from a past of hard knocks...Social fabric loves to put people on pedestals only to tear them down at a later time, and from my point of view and experience, society is particularly viscious on women. It can be very perverse and cruel when a woman is on the downside of fame...case in point, Anna Nicole Smith...

I personally came to this board as basically only a Stevie fan and have enjoyed and appreciated having my musical landscape broadened by Lindsey's, Peter Green's and even Bob Welch's music and their wonderful fans. It only has enriched my love of the Mac and does not detract from my love of Stevie's music. As a fellow FM fan, I can only ask that all the non-Stevie fans, try once again and re-listen to her famous stuff and then try some of her new/rare stuff as well, I think as FM fans you will be pleasantly surprised and be re-enraptured by the whole FM magic once again, a perfect time to do so since the new tour will hopefully start in 2003. Believe me as a fellow FM fan, don't listen to just the social/literary hype, Stevie has done some great music since the 70's...

I Adaore stevie probibly as much as anybody, BUT there was a time frame where she SUCKS. from 1973-1983 Stevie did not have ONE bad song. every Fleetwood Mac Song she did was PERFECT and Bella Donna was PERFECT, and the Wild Heart was all good too. And The live performances I've seen and heard are Spectacular. Stevie looked Great in this time period. It was here 73-83 where stevie was truly to me the greateest musical person ON EARTH. But then comes Rock a little which was a collection of EXTREMELY MEDIOCRE songs. But her live shows were still firery, so this 85-86 era is like a grey area, the calm before the true disater hit. Enter Tango in the Night. 3 PATHETIC songs. Even the much loved Seven Wonders sucked. and now even her live performances are horrible. I've seen the Tango in the night video and she is a lifeless zombie. Then comes an even LOWER point but not the LOWEST, that comes later. OSOTM comes out, and is easily her worst solo work. Although there are a few good songs, this is not a very good album. But Stevie hit the VERY BOTTOM of her career in 1990 with her freaking Behind the Mask songs, and crappy voice. The Second time was not a song it was something someone thwer up. But Stevie finnally rebounds for me in Street Angel, a much disliked album that i fell is leaps and bounds better then TOSOTM. It's a step back to her earlier songs and it rocks. but she is not FULLY back for me. from 1995- 2001 she wrote many great songs and with TISL regained her praise from me. It aint AS good as 73-83 but it'll do for me. Again this is how i fell about stevie, I LOVE HER to death except for those 87-93 years.

NOOOOOO
 

I wrote that long reoply and stupidly ended up putting it in the wrong topic:rolleyes: :laugh: i want this in the talent thread

Bella Figura: I believe that's the most level headed thing I've read on the pro-Stevie side in the past couple weeks. Comments like that make me respect your position on the issue, honestly.
Two additions I'd like to make though. 1. I don't think some of us are making comments meant for others to take as "negative", they're just comments meant to place a different amount of value on Stevie in this case. We just think contributions can be made, but they can only go so far compared to others'. I must say, I LIKE her contributions for the most part. 2. We're not in any way attempting to keep you from enjoying Stevie, we're just giving our opinions of her and her music.
Thank you very much for the post again, I can much more easily accept and respect your opinion without some of the bias and defensiveness I've seen in other posts.
Hawkeye: You know, you can delete a post by clicking on edit and checking the box for delete if you wish. Just an undo button of sorts :)
-Brian

i know that, but i don't want to re-type the post. So i'll leave it here. now thqt i look at it, it can belon here too i guess.

The thing that gets me down when I read stuff like this (negative posts) is I feel like I'm one of the few that truly appreciates FM (Rumours) lineup as a whole group. Sure I have my favorite members etc. but I can't say that any one member takes precedence over the other or is better etc. I truly appreciate each member for the contributions they have made. I don't "worship" any member and I see that each one has their faults and is not perfect. I don't feel like I need to get defensive when somebody expresses an opinion or uses constructive criticism. Most importantly, I don't feel the need to put down one member to build another member up. Really, thou how many out there can truly say that they *like* each member of the group and above anything would love to see a "Fleetwood Mac" concert rather than a "Stevie solo concert" or a "Lindsey solo concert". I, for one, can say I have been a Fleetwood Mac fan first and always will be.

AAHHHHH!!!! Therein the rub. When the band was acting like a band, they could truly be appreciated as a group. Starting with Tusk, they were going their own ways separately, even though they managed to pull it together for what in my opinion IS the Fleetwood Mac masterpiece. Then Stevie went solo ("Never gonna make it, baby" Could Lindsey have been more wrong?) and she started contributing crappy songs to Fleetwood Mac. Even though Gypsy is a great song, everything else that she gave Fleetwood Mac after that was crap. Yet her blind-faith friends were still eating it up. Sorry, the quality is simply not there.

Meanwhile, Lindsey was getting better.

Now, I'm told TISL has great stuff. It doesn't appeal to me, but fine, that's a matter of opinion. Now let's see what she gives the band this time. More crappy leftovers? This is my issue. I do not want another Fleetwood Mac album if it's going to be a bunch of great songs from Lindsey peppered with crappy leftovers from Stevie.

As far as the public is concerned, maybe that's true. But LB has almost always been praised in the rock press, which is usually where the really interesting opinions are found. Particularly in 1979, he was considered a breath of fresh air (by the way, how stale that cliche has become). During their commercial heyday, when they were still a fascinating & vital presence on the pop-rock scene, Fleetwood Mac were critics' pets, & LB typically received the lion's share of credit -- whether it was the band's arrangements & production in the studio or its live gigs. His confidence grew onstage over the years from the time he joined the band, & by the time the whole "Tusk" dunciad rolled around, he was, as a couple of rock reviewers in the L.A. Times noted, dominating the band's live shows as the kinetic center. I was lucky enough to see the band play a bunch of times in those days, & he really was the dominant force, whether he was driving the band into hard-rock terrain instrumentally or forcing the others to continually take chances in their appeal. He loosened up the others considerably, so that his bandmates' songs, like "Angel" or "Over & Over," became dazzling, sexy displays of on-the-fringe prowess.

Well, most likely this is the last post I will make on the subject, since this horse is long dead, and now very well beaten.

I read Bella Figura's post, and I think she perfectly struck the nail on the head.
Many of Stevie's fan take these debates to heart, because there always seems to be an air of snobbery throughout the proceedings.
The implication always being that Stevie Nicks fans are mindless sheep, worshiping at an altar somewhere, giving their souls up to some chick rock 'n roll star, and just waiting for the day when they can put on their platform boots and the Halle-Bopp comet will come take them away.

I'm well aware of Stevie's limitations as a musician and a singer, but that doesn't tarnish my enjoyment of her music.
I'm also aware that not every song she writes is a masterpiece, but that doesn't stop me from being entertained or moved or inspired by them.
Lindsey and Christine have written some pretty big stinkers as well.

Lindsey was indeed the chief architect of the Fleetwood Mac "sound," but his vision wasn't always spot on. He's produced some songs that can be deemed quite mediocre, to say the least.
Christine has written the majority of Fleetwood Mac's hit singles, but at their core, most of them have no more depth than "silly love songs."
But that doesn't stop me from being entertained by their music, nor does it sour my opinion of their contributions to the band.

It's obvious that I'm a Stevie fan... I am also a major Lindsey fan, and a major Christine fan... but most of all, i'm a FLEETWOOD MAC fan.
I subscribe to the theory that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

You put the three of them together, and their styles compliment each other beautifully. The amount of Fleetwood Mac gems far outweighs the clunkers. And even their lesser songs are usually more enjoyable than other band's biggest accomplishments.

Yes, Stevie "only" writes and sings, but I don't see why that implies she is the least important member of the band.
Nor do I see why finding enjoyment in each one of her songs implies that someone is blind to her limitations.

Maybe this is a bad analogy, but when you love something or someone, it doesn't mean that you're blind to their faults... it's merely that their faults are a part of them, and therefore you can love those as well.

And I think that's where these arguments come in: There are people who love the band, warts and all, and find it engaging to discuss all aspects of their music and personalities, including the negatives.... And there are other people here who also love the band, and are cognizant of the negatives, but prefer to focus on the postives.
The "All Aspects" people can't understand why the other faction appears to be so blindly loyal... while the "Focus On The Positive" folks can't understand why the others seem to only discuss what's wrong with the band, and not what's right.

I guess I'm somewhere in the middle.


Johnny Stew

Funny how no one's touching the "crappy leftover" statement. Because it's true!

Could be that.... or it could be that no one wants to get into yet another argument with you over something that is entirely subjective.
:D


Johnny Stew

and the ref call "foul", free rim shots for Stevie....

she is the greatest musician to ever play music since Mozart
she is the most talented poet since Elizabeth Barret Browning
she is the most beautiful woman since Helen of Troy
she is the most popular 20th century icon since the Beatles and Elvis Presley put together
she is the priestess, she is the reason birds sing in the morning and crickets chirp at night
she is the goddess, she is the reason the sun shines in the morning and the moon beams at night
she is the reason i wear my platform boots proudly and you know what Nancy Sinatra has to say about boots...

Come on, Johnny, now you're just trying to hurt me.

Well they say the truth hurts

Pip

Which is why all the Stevie fans on this board are whining?

Ouch!

I don´t see the need to post a "I defend Stevie with teeth and claws, because she´s perfect"-kind of post. But one thing that came to my mind when I read the posts was...

I can´t remember reading anywhere that artists like Peter Gabriel, Joni Mitchell or Lou Reed are highly regarded because of their perfection on any instruments. What they are acknowledged for is their talent in songwriting. If anyone wants to rank Stevie next to the SONGWRITING talents of the artists mentioned above, is of course anyone´s personal choice.

I think Stevie´s problem has often been the fact that unlike some other artists she involuntarily tends to distract people from looking at her work and make them concentrate on the "airy fairy"/ "black shawl"/ "priestess"/ "gypsy" or whatever aspect of her visual appearance instead.

AAH! Wrong thread... I somehow can´t get it moved over to the "Talents" thread... sorry! :)

Well put, Johnny.
I already said most of what I had to contribute to this topic over on the "most talented member" thread. I acknowledge that Stevie had a down period (1985-1993 IMO), but: a) everyone has down periods in life; and b) I think she's on the other side of it now.
Really, her creative dip lasted a shorter amount of time than it has taken Lindsey to put together a single album's worth of new solo material (10 years and counting). Stevie releases more material than does Lindsey, so she exposes herself to more scrutiny.
That's not a judgement call; I love them both to bits. But let's put things in perspective.

*sighs*
Before I even post this, I'm already ashamed of myself... because I know the difference between a healthy dialogue, and something that is quite simply meant to be bating.
And typically I'm smart enough to avoid being dragged into the latter.
But, alas, here I go anyway....

Anytime someone makes sweeping generalizations... such as a song being "crappy"... with no valid argument to back that up, they should expect a rebuttal.
Calling something "crappy" is an opinion, and leaves itself open to be argued, or ignored.

Also to write off any discussion as "whining"... implies that other people's opinions are childish and inconsequential.
Which is another statement in which I can see nothing constructive.

At this point in the game, one must wonder why someone would make such comments.
Obviously some kind of reaction was being sought, and I doubt the intentions were merely to engage discussion.

I enjoy healthy debates... when they can be conducted as adults.
But anything less, and I bore very quickly... and tend to lend very little credence to the point of view being stated.



Johnny Stew

yes, Johnny Stew, I could hear your sigh right thru my speakers and you are so right on the money...when reason and humor try to lift an interesting discussion to it's rightful healthy level, all that is needed is one small inciteful comment to bring it all down once more...

and finally there is only one last recourse...

"Bored now" Willow from Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Do post there. I think we can break 100!

Thanks for the insight Carne. Once again, I have no problem with others opinions. And that is exactly what yours is an opinion - too bad it seems like an opinion that is forced on others. I'll say it again, I appreciate the group as a whole. And just because you don't appreciate ANY of Stevie's contributions that's fine. But don't try to imply that's the way we all SHOULD feel.

I think Johnny Stew said it best
.
The "All Aspects" people can't understand why the other faction appears to be so blindly loyal... while the "Focus On The Positive" folks can't understand why the others seem to only discuss what's wrong with the band, and not what's right.

I guess I just don't understand all the negativity that's all. I focus on the positives of the band and try to keep away from the negatives. It's too bad we all can't do that.

Oh, gee, here we go. Is the "whining" comment going to get me another point? Hey, how many points do I get anyway? Johnny, I can't believe you took that seriously. It was obviously written in jest. So if I but one of these ;) next to the remark, it would make it OK?

I simply don't get it. People are way too sensitive on this board. You try to have a serious discussion, and people get on you for saying this in that way about a band member. You make a joke, somebody gets offended. Get real, folks.

As for the use of "crappy," it was admittedly done to elicit a response. But isn't that what we're doing? Exchanging comments. I keep reading about people get on here to make statements that will elicit a response as if that's bad thing. I though this was a discussion board.

Like it or not, all Stevie Nicks has given to Fleetwood Mac since 1982 is leftovers, most of which weren't very good. And that is all I was saying.

I was being playful, Johnny, and you took me way too seriously. Forgive me for assuming you had a sense of humor.

Not true. Scroll back to see where I praised Stevie for having written some great songs. (It might be in another thread.) Also, I've credited her for being a survivor. It's a funny thing: I can actually see people in multidimensional terms, which is why I have praised and criticized her.

Gee I don't feel slighted at all. Actually I think that all the members get equal TIME on an album, which is the way it should be. I might feel a bit slighted though if my favorite band member's songs weren't being released as singles equally.


Joe

Isn't that what Stevie, herself, has said many, many times? That she ONLY wants to be remembered for being a great SONGWRITER? Not for being a great piano player or a great guitar player. Well... congradulations, Stevie...I think you've made it. (Even if you cannot stand her music, if you just read her words, you have to admit, the woman can write some pretty great stuff.)

Bella Figura....wonderful post. And the same goes for Johnny Stew, I have actually looked forward to reading them. You both have made excellent points.

Okay...I'm going back into hiding now. I normally don't post on these long "discussion" type threads....just because I simply don't have the time.

And yes....as much as I love Stevie...I do believe that the "whole is greater than the sum of the parts".
~~Angela~~:wavey:

Well now, that's a whole 'nother pot of gold. Singles are not picked on a democracy based system. The label puts out singles that they think will make the album sell. They don't give a flying f*** as to who sings the song. If Bob the talking baby sang the song and it meant more sales than a kick-ass song, Bob wins. It's just the sad truth.
-Brian