Lindsey joins veteran trio
 

Ok, not quite. But I had to put something on the subject field to make you read this. But here's my suggestion. You got Lindsey, a whole bunch of rockin' tunes, in addition to some wonderful slow burners, not to mention the whacked-out stuff that we love him for, and you've got the unbeatable rhythm section of Mick and John.

Take these three lads, give them the instruments and send them out on the road. Just the three of them. Leave the synthesizers and the nylon-string guitars at home. Play only clubs like Lindsey did in 1993. And mostly stick to the rockers:

I Know I'm Not Wrong
Wrong
Deep Dense
Monday Morning
The Ledge
I'm So Afraid
Eyes of the World
Not That Funny
Johnny Stew
Countdown
Twist of Fate
Gift of Screws
This is the Time
Oh Diane

Acoustic set:

Save Me a Place
Big Love (OK, bring one nylon-string)
September Song
Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind
Say Goodbye

Encore:

Oh Well
Tusk (the stripped-down version)
Trouble
Go Your Own Way


Oh, yeah, and lots of Wheat Thins for snacking.

Excellent set but what's happened to "Red Rover" in the acoustic set

That list would be pure joy! My one adjustment would be remove the acoustic version of Big Love and replace it with Red Rover (as Neil said), then insert the original version of Big Love into the main set.

I believe we will see Lindsey tour the clubs again a la OOTC, but in a very long time from now.

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Simply from a logistical point of view, I think it would be tough to make it sound as desired as a trio. For God's sake, it took a self-proclaimed guitary ARMY for Lindsey to be satisfied on OOTC. He needs at least one more guitar and a keyboard player wouldn't hurt, but not necessary. But you need an acoustic guitar for GOS, GYOW, ISA just to name a few off the top of my head. Just sounds empty otherwise. But I like the set! Quite strong.
-Brian

Why would you need an acoustic guitar for "I'm So Afraid"...??:confused:

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

In terms of background figures, don't you think it would sound a little silly with just the bass? There's absolutely no way to hear the chords. You need a keyboard or something to give a strum for the chords. You wouldn't notice it unless you heard ISA without Christine or Neale.
-Brian

Oh sure, absolutely!:nod:

Sorry...misunderstood what you meant, I throught you were talking about the "normal" concert versions...like The Dance version would need an acoustic guitar...I was like..huh??:confused:....:laugh:

yea i absolutely agree....I'm So Afraid (an electric version at least) cannot be done with just Mick, John and Lindsey alone....you definitely need some sort of backing chord accompaniement, otherwise it would sound as dry as the sands of the Sahara! :cool:

stay cool as a cucumber Brian!:laugh:

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

I was wondering if anyone caught that...:D
Yeah the onlt way you could have a trio was on the acoustic set, or if Lindsey played piano...:shocked: not happenin...
-Brian

Now, Brian and Seteca, you guys of course are right that the songs would sound different in a trio setting. They would have to. But you are missing my point: There have been many trios that worked beautifully on stage and sounded perfectly full. Here's the trick: Lindsey would have to rearrange most of those songs for them to sound right in a trio. John too would have to make a few changes, though not as many. Think of what Lindsey does with "Countdown" with only his acoustic guitar. Now think of how he changed "Go Insane" and "Big Love." It definitely can be done. For instance on "Go Your Own Way," he could start by playing the acoustic intro clean on the electric guitar, than switch to power chords when the verse starts. (In fact, when I see footage of the Rumours tour, I wonder why he didn't play it this way instead of the way he does, which is to just play the power chords in the intro, thereby ignoring the song's signature acoustic riff.) He could probably stay with the power chords through the chorus, with some licks here and there, then switch to the intro chords, do it again, and then let it rip with the solo. It would sound great.

Also with a couple of numbers, he could just have John back him up with an acoustic, and just forego the bass. I know that's radical but it could work.

Have you guys heard of the White Stripes? Big sound with just a guitar and drums!

Interesting concept...Fleetwood Mac as "power trio".

As far as recreating the material live, that would take some serious "rearranging", but, if the songs are really as "strong" as we've attached that label to them, they can be pulled off in ANY type of setting...even on solo acoustic. If they CAN'T, then they weren't as strong as we thought...the strength is then in the arrangement & production rather than the song itself

Some great rock trios sound full live, as well as the studio:

The Police
Cream
ZZ Top
Led Zeppelin (basically they WERE a trio, with a front-man vocalist)
Beck, Bogart & Appice

But I think that's what makes Lindsey's songs so great... the fact that they are so multi-layered. If you stripped them down to three instruments, you wouldn't feel the passion in the songs anymore. Just my two cents.

Laura.

That's my point exactly...if the song's passion or intensity is only arrived through the production or arrangement, what does that say about the song itself? The measure of a good song, to me, SHOULD be that it's message, feeling, emotion, intensity, etc, can be conveyed under ANY circumstance.

The biggest examples are "Big Love" & "Go Insane"...who knew when they were first released with the "big '80's techno" arrangements that they could be so easily rearranged for solo acoustic guitar? I, for one, didn't. If THOSE two songs can cross that line, then why not others? Why COULDN'T "I'm So Afraid" be rearranged for solo acoustic guitar and still have the power & emotion of the full-on electric version?

But that just makes the music redundant.

Laura.

I just saw the White Stripes on MTV and went "Why do they just do closeups of the guitarist and drummer??" :laugh: They are pretty good as a duo, I must admit.
There's possibility for trio, as long as fans understand that they'd be coming to see something new and different. And we all know how new and different goes over with Mac fans sometimes...;)
-Brian

Hmm... maybe that's what we need to introduce the Mac to a whole new generation. Although I just feel that Lindsey sounds the way he sounds... no matter how many different styles he goes through, there's always going to be that signature Buckingham sound behind it, so even a radical departure is still going to sound Lindsey-ish.

Laura.

I'm NOT saying that the arrangement isn't important. And, yes, Lindsey's production style adds a significant amount to the songs. But, to give more value to the "production" than to the "song" is basically saying that without the "layering" the song itself is worth nothing.

That's what the Beatles fell into, as well. How were they going to play "Strawberry Fields Forever" live? They couldn't...or PERCEIVED that they couldn't (actually, I think they used that as a cop-out excuse to not tour anymore). I've heard other people play solo acoustic guitar versions of "SSF" and they sounded incredible!

OK, I do agree that the song as a whole should be given its value.

But while it would be interesting, I honestly don't think such a stripped down approach is something that Lindsey would go for.

Laura.

"No matter how many different styles he goes through, there's always going to be that signature Buckingham sound behind it, so even a radical departure is still going to sound Lindsey-ish.

Laura."

Thank God for that. We want the songs to still sound Lindsey-ish, but we're looking at taking a radical approach to the songs. So, yes, we would have to forgo the texture in the studio recordings. The production is essential with Lindsey's songs. Or is it? Again, I have to go back to Go Insane, Big Love, the acoustic version of Countdown, and Lindsey's take on Here Comes the Sun.

I have no doubt he could rework all these songs and make them sound great live.

Also, I am remiss for having left out "Shuffle Riff" (or whatever the real name of the song is) in my original post. Now there's a song that would sound absolutely killer in a trio setting. Essential blues with a kick-ass riff.

Now that you mention those particular songs, I have to rethink this... the live versions of Big Love and Go Insane have always conveyed more emotion for me than the original studio versions... I think it's because the originals always sound over-produced to me. So that does lend weight to the theory that the production is not the be all and end all. Or does it? Whereas those songs do sound better stripped down, I don't think it's true that every single song of Lindsey's could have the same done to them and still come out with as good an effect. If you were seriously going to put on a live performance with just the three instruments, you would have to be extremely discriminating with the setlist, or you could find yourself detracting from the original beauty of the song.

Laura.

"I don't think it's true that every single song of Lindsey's could have the same done to them and still come out with as good an effect."

Absolutely right, Laura. That's why in some cases I'm saying go all out on electric with a power trio of monster proportions. Think what Lindsey could do with that killer riff on Johnny Stew. Or maybe he could totally tone down Eyes of the World and do it as an acoustic song, with him picking the riff and John playing the chords. Or he could simply do Eyes of the World the same way he did it on the Mirage tour, though I'd lean a little more on power chords and less on the riff.

Damn, I gotta do some work...

I get the impression that he'd go for it in a big way -- or would have gone for it at one time.

There were tours way back when the band essentially was a power trio, just LB & Mick & John ripping it up. Christine's instrumental contribution is more about texture (particularly in the rhythm) than actual keyboard attention-getting. Take "I'm So Afraid," for example. I don't know why the power trio couldn't rumble through that song live without the keyboard part, which is just some chords on the B3. Doing that song with the three men wouldn't sound hugely different from the way it has always sounded ... maybe a little less full if the B3 isn't there, but still similar & certainly recognizable.

Ahhh, yes, but Christine's subtle touches really were the "make or break" factor in quite a few of those tunes. "I'm So Afraid" being one of them. It's amazing how subliminal Christine's keyboards are on a lot of songs...I think that's what makes me appreciate her even more.

I was going to say the same thing. I think Lindsey would have or might still dig something just like that.

For Lindsey, it seems it's all in the challenge and the process of getting there. The Cradle tour was a great thing because he got to orchestrate all of his songs just the way he wanted to for the first time ever. It was a challenge to find the right personalities and work out all of the intricate parts one-by-one, and it worked beautifully.

The songs he did alone without the full backup were incredibly well done as well. That was the other part of the challenge and I think he enjoyed that immensely. It was that stripped down part of his performing talents that he carried back over to the Mac when he returned to the Dance (Big Love, Go Insane, and even Landslide because he handled the keyboard line as well that Christine used to play on previous tours). In all of the clippings where he discussed his work on GOS, he talked about stripping away adornments and letting just the guitar or just a very few instruments do the work of a whole track. Taking that into account leads me to believe that a stripped down approach and some radical rearrangements could be right up his alley.

I'm not sure how many people have had the chance to hear the unplugged version of "Gypsy" that Lindsey and Stevie did for the first Arizona Heart Institute benefit, in 2000, but it was absolutely gorgeous.
In a live setting, I actually think the song stood out better this way, than it ever has with a full band.


(Wishful thinking: during the obligitory acoustic set on the upcoming tour, it'd be cool if they did "Gypsy" instead of "Landslide"... saving the latter for the closing number.)



Johnny Stew

That version of Gypsy is indeed quite enjoyable. I only wish it were available in a higher-quality recording.

As for ChiliD's points about Chris' keyboards, you are quite right. It becomes almost subconscious because she does not solo. That is why the Don't Stop version in The Dance is so interesting, in addition to the brass band of course. Chris does a little blues solo thingy there, and it's very cool.

"Little" is right.

She used to do longer & splashier solos on "Don't Stop" on the Tusk & Mirage tours, when the band would crank out a 12-bar & carry it home. Have you heard any of those? On some nights, she seemed kind of pooped & didn't do much but put texture to the rhythm but on other nights she laid on plenty of her trademark blues riffs (none of them technically demanding but all of them played at just the right points & with what I would, for want of a better word, call delicacy).

Her occasional "little" solos (as opposed to fills) were on almost all the blues shuffles -- "Get Like You Used to Be," "Don't Stop," "Stop Messin' Round," "Roll With Me Henry" -- as well as on "Tear It Up" & even a little organ solo on "Spare Me a Little."

As much as I enjoy her occasional soloing (& have learned all her licks), I am really much more fascinated by her rhythm patterns, particularly in the left hand. It's a style that hinges on the fact that she's left-handed -- no one else does quite what she does with her left hand. In general, the piano player who sounds most like her is (or was) Bob Hall; but Carole King's work on "Smackwater Jack" has the flavor of Christine's style, too, despite the fact that there couldn't have been any direct influence.

Where do you hear Christine's singular left-hand rhythm patterns the clearest? Grab any live version of "Angel" from the Tusk tour. It's essentially the same pattern as what she used on "Hold Me" & "Honey Hi" & "Got a Hold on Me" & others. I'm actually pretty good at it, but only after studying it for a long time.

David,

Don't leave out the live version of "Bermuda Triangle" where she does the opening piano riffs...her left hand does almost a "JOHN McVie" bass line...which makes me wonder...


...did John's bass playing influence Christine's left hand playing or did Christine's left hand influence John's bass playing??


What little keyboard "chops" I have left, that opening piano part to the live version of "Bermuda Triangle" is just a blast to play.

The Mac Trio!!!!
 

:wavey: Hi Musical Guru's!!!!
I hesitate to speak of this to you all but...
IMHO...I like all Male Trios or even... an all
GUY Band!!I LIKE the maleness! So...I really
think this is a super idea! It then reminds me
of John accompanying Lindsey on bass for
his famous tune...NGBA! I also admired the
boys Country Harmonies on... Cool Water!:D

If not The Mac...how about Nashville!!!:blob2: Sky:)

I makes me want to have been at those private corporate gigs in the early 90's when the lineup was only Mick, John, Billy & Rick.


Even a lineup NOW of Mick, John, Stevie, Lindsey & Rick would be killer, as long as Rick wasn't delegated to being an "add on"...as long as he got "equal time", that would be awesome!

Ooh...here'd be a hypothetical set, if that were the lineup (of course, they'd probably add on Brett Tuggle on keys, Lenny C on percussion, and Mindy & Sharon for bkgrnd vocals, too):

The Chain
Dreams
I'm So Afraid
Oh Well (Rick vocals)
You Make Loving Fun (Lindsey vocal)
Gypsy
Bleed To Love Her
(new Stevie song)
(new Lindsey song)
I Loved Another Woman (Mick, John, Rick only)
Landslide (Stevie & Lindsey only)
Big Love (Lindsey only)
Long Black Car (Mick, John, Rick + Brett only)
Gold Dust Woman (everybody on stage again)
(new Lindsey song)
(new Stevie song)
Love Is Dangerous (Rick's solo arrangement, but as a duet with Stevie)
Don't Let Me Down Again
Desiree
Not That Funny (with Mick's vest-urbation solo)
Rattlesnake Shake (Rick lead vocal)
Sisters Of The Moon
Tusk

(encores)
Go Your Own Way
Silver Springs

(final encore)
Storms (Lindsey & Rick on acoustic guitars, yet with full band)
Soul Drifter (Lindsey solo acoustic)

Interesting, Chil. I know we're talking hypotheticals here, which is what makes this thread fun. But can you see Lindsey leaving the stage during the show? They'd have to drag him out by the collar. I don't see it.

David, I never paid much attention to the organ or piano parts. But now that you mention them, one of my favorite things about You Make Loving Fun is that cool-ass rhythm pattern she does on the keys. What is she using there? Of course I also enjoy Lindsey's licks on that tune.

"vest-urbation"
chiliD... THAT is the best description of Mick's little drum-pad solos that I've ever heard!
:D


CarneVaca.... I don't think it's too far beyond the realm of possibility that Lindsey would give someone else the spotlight for a few songs. He'd probably appreciate the break.

It's been said that when Lindsey was actually considering going on the road with The Mac to support 'Tango,' he had expressed the desire to have another guitarist on stage to take some of the heat off of him (Which is when Billy Burnette's name was first bandied about).
Outside of Rick's inclusion, the 'Tango' touring band was probably very similiar to what it would have been even if Lindsey had been there.




Johnny Stew

I totally agree with Johnny Stew here.
Not only do I think he would appreciate the break, but
I think Lindsey is too much of a pro to hog the limelight
and try to leave other great musicians in the dark.
He has always had great respect for other musicians
and shared the stage equally when proforming.
I don't think you would see him leave the stage completely,
but I can see him stepping back to let someone else take
lead.

witchywoman:)

P.S. Love that term "vest-urbation" Chili, right on the nose.

Nah, sorry. I disagree. I think when Lindsey was talking about guitar help on stage, he meant someone in the background, as in The Dance tour. Under Chili's scenario, which by the way I don't think Lindsey would agree to, he might trade lead riffing with someone else, say Rick Vito, but I don't see him leaving the stage.

Why am I so sure? Remember the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame induction? Peter Green was inducted too, yet he was not invited to play with the band, which put on a rather lame unplugged show. I'm not blaming Lindsey for Peter not playing with them because I really don't know what happened. But if Lindsey wanted Peter on stage, he would have made sure that Peter played. After all, Greeny got up that night and played with Santana, who by the way swirled around him with all kinds of showy playing while Peter stuck to his playing-with-feeling mode.

Hi Carne,
I think if you read my entire post here You will see that I
agree that Lindsey would not totally leave the stage.
I don't really see that Johnny's post reflects that he thought
that he would either.I think the refrence was
just a breather to being out front every minute of the
show.
I can see Lindsey giving the song that understated tone he gives to it at that point; putting in those nice background touches that would complement the stylings of the lead person.
As to the Peter Green reference, we all know Lindsey has
an ego, but I can't see him refusing to let Peter play.
Who knows, Peter may have had his own reasons for not
wanting to play.
Just my opinion, we're here to share ideas and I welcome
any comments to my posts. It would be a very dull world
if we all thought the same. Wouldn't it?

witchwoman:)

The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame thing was totally different. From reading a Peter Green interview recently, he said he didn't play with Fleetwood Mac because they'd already had a planned set, and he wasn't familiar with the material...he WROTE basically what has become Santana's signature tune, and Carlos asked him to play with them.

Kind of makes sense, why play unfamiliar material with your EX-band, when you can play YOUR OWN song with the people who keep the royalty checks flowing in! :)

I DO think Lindsey, for the sake of "the show", would leave the stage...it would make the transition to the next songs more dramatic, and, Lord help us if Stevie & Lindsey shy away from "the dramatic"! :lol:

Good point Chili :laugh: Yes we all know what drama queens
they can be.:nod:

witchywoman:)

Yeah, but wasn't this a great opportunity to pair those two up on "Oh Well?" I don't think I can ever forgive the band for blowing that.

And Witchywoman, I couldn't agree with you more about disagreeing. The truth is we'll never know because the scenario is unlikely to happen, but it's fun to speculate.

There was a whole laundry-list of things that DIDN'T happen at the 1998 HOF induction ceremonies that were "tradition" up to that point...most glaringly, the absence of the "all-star jam"!

With the inductees that year, the possibilities were just so fantastic and to have it so sterile was a crime.

The Jam....
 

chili...Do YOU know why the Jam was stopped that year?
We were really mad ...that's the best part! Any info?Sky:eek: