The continuing mystery of the Mac's 1974 tour
 

There is enough circumstantial evidence from Mick's statements and factual events that Mick is full of sh*t.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news...cad07d8c&ei=58

Yes, the phrase Elmer Gantry quoted from Mick book is right.

To this day I don't know the names of the musicians involved, and I don't wanna know. Years later, the singer of the group contacted us to apologise. He swore that the musicians had been told that I would be joining them on the road after a few shows, so they went ahead. Eventually they formed their own band and recorded a single, "Why Did You Do It," that was said to have some bearing on the case.

So he stated that he still doesn't know their names, including the one (the singer) he spoke to? Come on, this is the first time I've read about someone having a very delicate and serious conversation with someone whose name he doesn't know and doesn't want to find out.

But there's something I don't agree in this interview, with promoter Rich Engler:

It actually went rather well. “[T]here’s no MTV, no social media, no internet,” Engler said. “Unless you were a big fan of Fleetwood Mac, and if you only knew them from the radio, you might not know that this wasn’t them… [T]he audience was going wild and loving it. They weren’t Fleetwood Mac, but they were actually really good.”

Yes there was no MTV in the mid 70s, but if I used to listen Mac songs on the radio, and if I bought some of their albums, I'm pretty sure I'd know there as a girl in the band, a female voice, even with singles. Did no one wonder where she was? Fleetwood Mac wasn't a hugely popular band, but I'm sure their tours generated some magazine articles. Critics who weren't that familiar with the band must have wondered where the female singer was, anyway.

Cause according to Google, the "fake" lineup was:
Elmer Gantry: Vocals
Kirby Gregory: Guitar
Paul Martinez: Bass
John Wilkinson: Keyboards
Craig Collinge: Drums

No MTV and the members were not putting themselves on the front cover of their albums. In those days people listened to music and many listeners may not know what the band looks like. Chris slowly merged into the band. I am sure some knew but there were already so many different members by 1974 I dont think it would have jumped out that Chris was missing. Yes hardcore fans probably knew it but casual fans probably not.
Good grief there were people showing at the 2018 tour thinking Neil was Lindsey. And guess what there is internet today, MTV, and everything else and people still did not know.
But then again many did not care because apparently they really rocked and sounded good. The point Engler was making was today it would have stopped after the first night but this went on for several weeks before the cat got out of the bag. The issue the article is addressing is Mick's alleged involvement and then playing dumb.

Yeah well that unfairly confirms Lindsey is not as popular as Stevie. I'm not a big fan of Guns N' Roses but I know and recognize Axl and Slash, though I admit I've no idea who the drummer is. But in this case Lindsey wasn't just a member in a band. So unfair, but that's how show business is.

Anyway that Neil/Lindsey example reminded me back in early 1998, I was taking a break at work checking some news and I read a sad one, so I commented to a friend "Sonny Bono has died in a skiing accident!" And she said "So now U2 is over???" :lol:

Yes it's not the same but I always recall that funny episode.

Is there any record anywhere of what sort of setlist they played?

I would love to know that too. I've seen a few people on Facebook that claim to have been at the Pittsburgh show where much of the audience was not fooled and there were lots of booos. Others claiming they were ripped off.

I've always wondered (and given we've had a fake Peter Green and a fake Jeremy Spencer in the past), if Mick on this occasion was being honest. What if the "Mick" the band met wasn't really Mick. What if that was why he wouldn't rehearse with them. I mean put any really tall guy in a hat and sunglasses and with an English accent, and you could fool people in to thinking it was Mick. He's not the most coherent guy, so you just have to make a few noises and mumble a bit.

The whole premise of the fake FM was that people didn't really know what the band looked like. Could that have worked on Elmer Gantry and co?

Ok but Elmer says A number of meetings took place, with the drummer seemingly providing approval to the new blood. “Mick later asked to be excused rehearsals as he was going through heavy personal issues,” so yes if the fake Mick was not even a drummer, that could make sense.

But if there were more than one meeting, Elmer should remember that face. And when Fleetwood Mac became a famous band with the Rumours lineup, Elmer would have discovered he was deceived by Clifford Davis, cause there are photos of Mick bearded and clean-shaven between 1975 and 1979. Elmer then identifies the Mick from the meetings with the Mick from Rumours lineup as the same person.

Nah….we know mick too well (well, not personally, but well enough to know he’s a scheming, conniving snake who is not true to his word and would sell anyone and anything down the river, if it were in his own self interest). Mick thought the band was done and was in on a plan to resurrect it with a new line up. Whether that would have been temporary or not, he saw the buck in that tour and wanted part of it somehow.
He probably **** his pants when Bob welch got in touch ‘mick, we’ve got to do something’…..’oh, er, yeah, we do’

i could believe mick was willing to do anything to continue... but john knew about the new band and i assume chris did as well. i think the problem arose when they realized they could lose the legal right to the name fleetwood mac? like i don't think they were stressed that another band was out doing their songs but maybe they panicked when it looked like those guys would be able to take/keep the name... and Bob pushed them to do something about it.

--Lis

What a wild conspiracy theory. Some circumstantial evidence on both sides. Mick's answers don't add up. The tour began in January 1974 as the band was about to record Heroes Are Hard To Find. It would not make sense to bless a fake band to tour while they were about to enter the studio. But then again this is Mick we are talking about.

It's a tragedy that this story hasn't been given a deep look into. All we have is hearsay and very little factual evidence.

Put a hat, sunglasses or tinted glasses and a scarf on anyone imposingly tall and you could pass him off as Mick when Elmer didn't really know what he looked like. Years later when they were famous, Elmer didn't physically meet with him. If he did, that would have been the real test. For me the suspicous bit is that "Mick" didnt rehearse with them.

Oh yes we all know that. I think Elmer is 100% honest in what he says, he has no reason to lie, and really had nothing to gain.

Its just my opinion, but I think the truth is more complex than Mick selling out his band mates for a few dollars.

I agree with that. Even if it's true Mick did reunited with Elmer, something doesn't add up in this whole story. He will never admit that, so we will never know what did he tell Christine and John, cause I want to think he wouldn't abandon the whole band without telling them anything. I think he would have told Bob too, but that's debatable.

And it was more likely that he wouldn't leave John like that. I know it's Mick, and I could be wrong, but that's my first thought. Even if it wasn't out of friendship, Mick would be interested in at least bringing John along because he was the original Mac, and it gave more legitimacy to the new band. Anyway we will never know the whole story.

Yes, Lis. I think your take is right. Mick's account of the fake band in his first book is too fuzzy and selective to take as definitive. And years later, when Davis was auctioning off some of his FM-related memorabilia, he posted an image of a postcard John sent from Hawaii in which he asks Davis how the new band is doing. That's pretty damning for FM's case. It reveals that at least John, Mick, and Christine were aware of the reformation plans. I think the reason Davis backed off is because he got his money from them. They settled around 1976-77, so the band was flush and could pay what they needed upfront. Plus the label was now committed to Mick's band continuing. So, bad luck brought them to near-ruin and good luck brought them out of it.

But I believe Elmer Gantry.

In his book, Mick says when he, John, and Chris arrived in LA they found Bob very pissed off. I can see why. Bob saw that Mick was letting the band be reformed under Davis' supervision, thereby negating all of the work the real FM had put in from Future Games forward. When Davis (in that mid-90s documentary) claimed Bob Welch's ambition was to take control of Fleetwood Mac, I believe he was referring to Welch wrestling the band from Davis' grip. Davis never dug Welch or his tunes and wanted him out. Perhaps he saw this reformation as his chance.

Thank god Welch brought the band to LA. Thank god the label allowed them to record Heroes. Thank god they eventually were able to tour in the U.S..

Mick's quote of Bob saving Fleetwood Mac is the most true thing he's ever said. He was the lynchpin for everything that happened even after his leaving the band. When you put everything into perspective, it makes it even more egregious that Mick didn't have the balls to stand up for him with the HoF stuff. Imagine how different everything would be had Bob left the band and not headed them fighting for their name.

"Bob Welch SAVED Fleetwood Mac" - Mick Fleetwood

And then for him to not even stand up for him at his exclusion from the Hall of Fame.

Mick Fleetwood is a piece of sh1t. Seriously.

Seriously. I'm not sure how important getting credit was for Bob but he deserves to be recognized for everything he did to help the band fight for their own name. When I think about how his life ended, it makes it all the more sadder. He deserved to know how much he was appreciated and that what he did mattered.

Absolutely. It's practically guaranteed that Stevie and Lindsey would've never happened if Bob hadn't moved them to the states(duh).

If that’s a reference to the letter John wrote to Clifford, I had the thought that John could have been talking about Hungry Fighter, not the fake Mac.

I'm curious to know that too. But no info about it, and I couldn't find a media profile of any of those members, maybe except for Craig Collinge, the drummer. There's a Facebook profile with that name and it shows a picture of him playing drums, and videos playing keyboards. But that guy, though is not a young boy, looks younger than I suppose he should.

However, if we were to find any of them on Facebook, Instagram, etc., I don't know if I'd dare to send them a message asking about the setlist. Perhaps that event is something they no longer want to talk about.

John might have been in one of his "I'm done with the band" phases. He had gone to hawaii because his marriage was pretty bad. Bob had told me chris went thru phases of also wanting to quit the band as well....so maybe mick was just trying to somehow stay working..? Bob weston also said the mcvies would fight over who should stay and who should leave so maybe they weren't 100% in. Chris even later said If it hadn't worked out w stevie and lindsey, she was gonna quit the band anyway. But I guess we'll never really know.


--Lis

Fwiw, I seem to remember that in Bob Brunning's (pretty poorly-written) book, there was a claim that at this time Chris "returned her shares in Fleetwood Mac" or some words to that effect. I borrowed it from the library as it didn't seem worth buying so I haven't got a copy to hand. If anyone has got one, perhaps they could correct or confirm.

It doesn't seem so far-fetched given what might be suspected about Mick's actions given what has been claimed by Elmer Gantry and Kirkby Gregory.

I hear that the band was booked to play a bunch of halls as part of the tour, but when Mick and the others called off the tour in the middle of it, they were still on the hook financially for the unrealized bookings. Getting the Davis group on the road may have been more than the manager’s bad idea. Maybe “somebody” in the band liked the idea, too, just to avoid paying promoters. Welch apparently did not like the idea (reasonable), but the manager’s insistence that he owned the name and had final say on membership must have roiled Welch to no end and he wanted to fight. Somehow, finally, Bill Graham got involved on their side, and that was what turned the tide in the States.

MYSTERY TO ME had not sold much, and Mac’s US audience was probably mostly college students and some holdovers from earlier lineups. Those were the people in the halls when the fake band was going. If I’m in college in 1973 and going to see a multi-act concert, I might not totally care whether Mick and Christine and John are there. “Fleetwood Mac” might not even be the band I’m going to see primarily. (Imagine if a fake Mac had been playing those gigs with REO and Benatar at the county fairs in 1994 — would anyone have cared?)

Good article which answers one or two questions but raises several more: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...n-tour-233735/

Well- thats not too far from reality, and No, I don’t think too many people cared/noticed/or were all that bothered. So I guess your point stands

Sh1t, I had lawn seats for it, and women all around me were bitching, "that's not Stevie Nicks!!!"

I wasn't too thrilled myself, until Bekka sang, "Dreamin' the Dream", and then she completely won me over.

All excellent points David. The financial strain of the cancelled tour and losing a guitarist definitely could of been financial motive for the fake band. Its a miracle they got their s**t together and did Heroes. While the album is fantastic, it has an odd vibe. Bob and Chris pushed to the front. Were they just going through the motions. Its fun to think WHAT IF the fake band never happened or Weston was never fired. Its likely Buckingham and Nicks would have never made the line up.
Another excellent observation is why people went to see the band. Chris and Welch were not really stars on their own merit drawing people to the band. The band was living off its name which was the perfect storm for a fake band resuming a tour.
Its a shame no one recorded any of these shows. It would be something to hear. But according to Joe Walsh they kicked ass.

Anyone who paid to see Fleetwood Mac in 1994 and saw a fake band perform would have noticed immediately. MTV existed then, but even if it hadn't, they'd already appeared on countless magazine covers. It's a very different situation from 1973.

I think then that not seeing Stevie and Christine that year with the band was disappointing anyway.

Don't be too sure of that. That summer tour had many acts touring together. Many attendees were not Fleetwood Mac fans and knew little about the band. All 3 singers/songwriters were no longer with the band. In 2018 people thought Neil Finn was Lindsey. There is a youtube recording of the Unleashed Tour when they opened up with Eyes of The World. Mick is banging on the drums and someone yells out STAND BACK. This Fleetwood Mac "fan" paid to see the concert, does not know Eyes of The World but knows Stand Back. He heard drums opening a song and his point of reference to that is Stand Back. Can you imagine Fleetwood Mac opening with Stand Back :eek: I don't think even Stevie would go for that.

My favorite quote from it is this: “To the band’s thinking,” said Welch, “that’s kind of beside the point. If he [Davis] has the rights to the band’s name, theoretically he can put anybody there. He can put four dogs barking on a leash and call it Fleetwood Mac.”

Maybe THIS was a premonition that five years later Lindsey would record that strange background sound-loop for Tusk! After all, it sounds like a bunch dogs barking at once…

I’d really like to go back and understand the demographic of the fan base back in those days. The Peter green era band was obviously huge in the UK and big in Europe. But really didn’t make a dent in the US. But then the Bob Welch band actually charted in the US….much higher (comparatively) than the early albums. Okay, they weren’t exactly the top of the charts, but there’s a noticeable shift in chart placings from Kiln House onwards. This to me suggests there was actually some fan base for that band. They weren’t just relying solely on the name as they shifted more units in the US than the early albums ever did. Penguin, I repeat….Penguin!!!!! actually broke the US top 50. That might not sound amazing….but somebody is taking a keen interest. I don’t know if it was maybe some sort of underground college thing?

Mick writes about this in his book. The Mac was very popular in the UK and Europe but when they went to the States that all changed. They had a steady grass roots touring crowd that made them money. The more popular they became in the states the less popular they were in Europe and the UK. This continued even in the Rumours era and went to the BTM era. BTM and OSOTM were considered disappointments in the States but in the UK they were #1 and #3 albums there.
When Weston was fired sort of started a chain of events that nearly collapsed the band and led to a fake band and eventually Bob Welch leaving.
They were making really good money touring the states. They were not really rich but comfortable. Look at John's car collection at this time. Once the Mystery To Me tour was cancelled touring dried up. That definitely was motive for the fake band. Had they been still making good coin on the road it may not have happened. I think they did have an underground college cult base that kept them afloat for years. When Lindsey and Stevie joined and toured with the band before the album release in 1975 they still played college campuses. I fell out of my chair when I learned they played Slippery Rock college in PA. I grew up not far from there and its crazy to think about.