FM's Songbird- Documentary
 

Thanks!

Felt quite uncomfortable at the anti- Lindsey angle to this

I love Stevie's Christine impression when they had the big blowout at her house in 1987.
***in a horrible British accent*** Don't kill each other at my house. go somewhere else to do it :lol:

I had to skip though this because there seemed to be a lot of the same old drivel that's been rehashed ad nauseum. For this to be a biography of Christine but almost completely ignore her 1984 album is something. I liked seeing the footage of Lindsey working on the Tango album. I'd never seen that before. Of course, Behind The Mask was just skipped. It made it seem like it was in the cards for the five to reconvene following the Clinton inauguration performance with Time not even getting a mention.

I never like how much band info they skip in stuff like this but i guess they were trying to keep it to an hour or so..? or maybe even chris was less than enthusiastic about discussing certain time periods, which in her mind were maybe "less important". I never liked those added comments from the Heart lady and whoever that other woman was...that crap to me was a waste of time. i would have much rather heard more memories from folks who were in the band w her, or her brother, or from chris herself. but on the whole, i do enjoy that BBC thing.

--Lis

Besides the BTM era the last years with Bob Welch in the band when Chris was the only woman was sort of skipped too. But that is typical and was even the case with the Behind The Music segment from 1997.

It was sad when her brother was interviewed how she never played piano when she was living in Kent in isolation. I assume he meant post 2004 after her solo album. Chris also admitted drinking extremely heavy and taking codeine and pain killers. Its so wondeful she got clean and came back.
I admire her honesty and bluntness about Buckingham/McVie. She said it was supposed to be a Fleetwood Mac album but Stevie did not want to do it so they went on without her.

I think Mister Money is a main factor that decides what to include and what to skip in a documentary. BTM, Time, they choose to skip them in favor of the usual hits, succesful albums. A documentary focusing on these can easily reboost sale figures. It's hard to achieve that with BTM or Time, or so they think. It's the same reason they don't release their deluxe editions.

But it's dissapointing to we the fans to never watch details of those sessions, how she wrote those songs, etc.

I think we come at this from a niche perspective. Your average viewer doesn’t care one bit about the albums between Tango and The Dance, and there’s an added element here which is that 1990 onwards was a difficult period for Christine. Her second marriage sounded like it just went downhill during that decade and the work she did with Quintela, which manifested most heavily on BTM and Time, probably wouldn’t be what she wanted to talk about.

Note also that 10 mins was edited out by the YouTube channel that posted it, to circumvent a copyright take-down. But yes I think the time warp from Tango to Clinton inaugration was probably as per the original. It's also possible that the documentary makers included a part about those years/albums but they were edited out for time. All in all, way too much Stevie footage in this and not enough of Chris. Yes the cameras would have predominately been on Stevie over the years but it's not like there wouldn't have been ample footage of Chris to show.

As for the somewhat anti-Lindsey sentiment, it's just unfortunate that the documentary was produced during the "era" of that 2018 lineup. In her comments on the current lineup and Lindsey's firing/absence, you can tell from her voice and what she says that she's just working with the cruddy situation that got handed to her. Had her interview been filmed a bit later after that lineup had fizzled out to its inevitable demise, I'm sure she would have mentioned a more staunch position that the Rumours five are the best lineup. As it stands, it may as well have been produced by Irving Azoff.

I think it's sad that Billy didn't get more of a mention considering the key role he played with Chris in the 80s, in both her solo band and Mac. Perhaps if they'd cut out one minute of footage of Stevie spinning they would have found time for it.

Not enough John either. Yes he doesn't interview as well as the others but without him there'd be no Chris in Fleetwood Mac.

I just pictured an alternate timeline where Chris stayed as housewife/tourwife and never joined the band. Bob Welch presumably would have kept them going for a few years. And Mick still would have stumbled onto Buckingham Nicks. Just imagine all those amazing Chris songs we would have missed out on. Without Chris the White Album mightn't have done a great deal better than the Buckingham Nicks album.

Interesting. That would have been a complete different scenary. The pre-Rumours lineup with Bob without Chris would have produced different albums, I don't know if they had emigrated to USA the same year they actually did. Or if they would have done it anyway. Chris would have accepted to be a housewife in a different country? Probably the divorce would have been brought forward?

But yes the White album would not have been so successful. Only if they could have gotten the record company support, Rhiannon would have been a hit. Cause as Mick recalled, in 1975 "the attitude of Warner's execs was decidedly ho-hum". So with a weaker album, I don't know how much support they would have achieved.

You are right. This was produced in 2018 with the new lineup thus this glossy spin put on the new lineup. When Chris says she was happier than ever on the 2018 tour part of me did not believe her. If she loved Lindsey so much how could she love to perform his songs without him against his will especially coming right off Buckingham/McVie.
But if you notice Chris gives Stevie cover in a subtle way because Chris keeps mentioning through the segment the constant fighting between Stevie and Lindsey and how it never stopped, changed and got worse. Then she sort of implies everyone is "happy" and they no longer have to deal with it.
I would not go as far to call it "anti Lindsey" spin but its definitely a glossy portrayal of the 2018 lineup and how happy and perfect they are.
Remember Rolling Stone's 1982 Fleetwood Mac "Happy At The Top." Nothing further could be from the truth. Stevie would not even partake in the interview and they all needed a break from eachother.

It's sad she begins the doc saying she thinks it's unprecedent that any member in any band has gone for 15 years and returned to the same people. Well yes that was true in 2014 but listening it in this video when Lindsey is not with them anymore, and then Neil Finn appears on the screen, made me feel, more than angry, very sad. And it wasn't an unprecedent thing. It could have been if they had continued playing and making new records, but they didn't, and there are some precedents of brief reunions. Pink Floyd reunited with Roger Waters in Live 8 after 20 years, for example (amazing show!). But that was it.

And they said good things about Bob Welch, but during the few minutes he appears, none of the other members of the early 70s appear. Hum.

Again, another questionable affirmation by Mick is that he wrote he introduced Dennis to Christine (Christine had loved Dennis with all her heart (we all did), and he was a fascinating if exhausting episode in her life. I felt some responsibility, because I had introduced them.), but now I see Richard saying that Dennis asked him to introduce them.

Time and BTM lineups not detailed or even mentioned, but nice to see Rick in that gig almost at the end.

I definitely enjoyed this video anyway. A lot. Thanks for sharing. I remember it was in the BBC webpage but from my country it was blocked.

She mentioned this during the segment on The Dance. I'm curious on how acrimonious things were between Lindsey and Stevie during The Dance Tour. Based on the comments Christine gave, it appears that their dynamics were still relatively negative. I'm curious if this also contributed to her decision to leave the band soon after Lindsey rejoined.

I think it's pretty telling how she barely even said two words about Ed in that documentary. it's like she just didn't even want to remember that phase of her life at all.

--Lis

They really did have too much of stevie in some areas... her spinning in rhiannon wasn't really vital to a doc about chris.

i wanted to hear more from john also, even though his memory isn't the best. (He did not ask her out just after the windsor jazz and blues festival...he's off by like 6 months..:shrug: nor did they marry after 7 weeks of knowing each other. he was in the states for 6 weeks and came back and proposed 4 days later. chris says they had been dating casually for about 6 mos and her version of the story is the one i'm going with lol.) but there was so much more they could have asked him...nosy questions of mine include, were you surprised when she quit chicken shack to be a housewife, and do you think she enjoyed that phase? What was the hardest adjustment to living in CA when you moved to america? How do you think chris grew and developed as a songwriter? just little things, but stuff that he was there to witness since they obviously lived together for a long time.

for me it's so hard to imagine a fleetwood mac without chris joining it. her contributions were so important.

--Lis

That's a good question. Although from what i heard, her personal life around that time was such a ****show that i wonder if she even gave a hoot what was going on with L&S. she was still drinking *a lot* during this period, even though they tried to make it sound like they'd all sobered up. that was BS. John was also drinking out the wazoo on that tour and was still completely enamored with her, and in a way she always loved that, but he could also get carried away...and on the road this was hard. (and was also why JC told George Hawkins he might be called in as the back-up bassist, just in case...because that situation was a little tricky.) Whatever was going on w L&S may have been the least of her worries lol


I think she was just tired, stressed, and thought her big move back to england was the last shot to save her crappy marriage. ed was making her life difficult, and she found out about his betrayal with a person very close to her during the dance tour... that whole mess probably made her give even fewer f*cks about staying with the band and continuing the tour or making an album etc. it seems like she was just done. period.

--Lis

That is really scary that George Hawkins was called even as a possibility during The Dance. Chris looked miserable during The Dance. She always looked like she was enjoying herself on stage every other tour except The Dance. But you know how miserable she was because for the first time she stood up to Mick and the band and said NO. She was always so loyal to the band and Mick. She was moving shortly to the UK anyway. Extending The Dance 3 weeks in Europe would not have been a big deal. It just shows how much she reluctantly went along for a 6 week tour.
I think the Stevie and Lindsey drama every album and tour wore thin with everyone the older they got.

Lindsey and Stevie fought like cats and dogs with OWTS too. It was out in the open on stage in Miami in early 2015. During her Gypsy speech she was telling the story touring with CCR and how their car broke down. Lindsey made his guitar or pedal or some other device honk twice like a car horn. Stevie stopped mid sentence and looked towards Lindsey and said "Who did that? Did you do that? I guess my story is going on too long" She stopped mid story and walked away. That was a little glimpse of their antics that spilled out on stage.

Yes JC told george that he "would be remiss in his duty to Chris" if he didn't have a back up plan in case things got messy. I believe george told me he'd been the back up for a couple of tours, because sometimes john really struggled. (i wonder if john even knew about this back up plan.) The later tours, after the cancer diagnosis/surgery etc he seemed better.

from what i heard, chris and john both had little patience for the tiffs or larger eruptions between L&S. how many years can you hear the same fights?? no progress was made.

can't say i blame LB for wanting her to wrap things up lol.

--Lis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DedUrBIdf-4

Interesting. Would that have been before or after this?

(Sorry, not sure why I cannot get an embed to work.)

It was beyond my wildest imagination that JC would accept a fb friend request from me, and that we'd actually have exchanges about our posts. It blew my mind.

He was a class act. RIP, JC.

He was intensely loyal to them. he scared me though-- when we met john before a show during the dance tour and were chatting, i saw jc coming down the hallway towards us and i sort of whispered, 'Oh, sh*t.' and john turned around and saw him and chuckled at my reaction lol. JC reminded john of the time..."15 minutes mate" and then came back a few minutes later to remind him again! and sheepish john was like, 'I've gotta go get ready..' and i said 'yeah, you'd better!' lol

and btw JC was the reason i did not get a picture of me with john. :( i was too terrified to take the camera out from beneath the false bottom of my purse because i seriously thought he might confiscate it (or worse, have us thrown out!) i was scared of him lol, he didn't play!! but no hard feelings. i know he did his best for them all.


--Lis

I still can’t wrap my head around how, at their age—and after decades together—they could still find things to fight about. By that point, they had separate dressing rooms, stayed in different hotels, and barely interacted on the plane. And yet, somehow, the drama never let up. To make it more baffling, a lot of the arguments sounded incredibly petty and trivial.

From what I observed, it seemed like by around 2011, it had become increasingly difficult to disagree with Stevie—or even just suggest an alternate idea—without it being taken as a challenge. Not ideal when you're working with someone like Lindsey, who tends to have a strong, specific perspective on just about everything. He also seemed to try using humor to defuse situations, but depending on the night, that probably came off more like an attack than an attempt to lighten the mood.

I'm 40 now, and I learned back in my early 30s that sometimes you just have to let things go. These days, I’m very selective about what—and who—is worth getting upset over. Meanwhile, these folks were well into their 60s and still hadn’t figured that out.

It must have been incredibly frustrating for John and Christine to watch the same old patterns play out all over again—even after 10 or 15 years. I still wonder what they talked about, sitting on that amp together during all those shows in 2014 and 2015.

That's what I exactly felt in 2018. I was on vacation far from home when I learned "Fleetwood Mac fired Lindsey Buckingham". I didn't know the details for several weeks, just read headlines and thought Again? They're too grown-up people to be fighting like that. So I got angry with the whole band. And my reaction was, not to insult or complain about them, but simply to stop listening their songs.

But event after I learned about what happened, the Azoff call, Stevie supposedly offended by Lindsey's attitude at the Clinton event, etc. etc. I was still angry with all of them, even with J&C for continuing with the band without Lindsey. My "embargo" of avoiding their music lasted several months. Now I enjoye their songs again, but to this day I have not watched any video of the "Present Band" tour.

You are correct except for the fact you forgot that most rock starts are the most superficial, arrogant, and entitled people on earth. Stevie and Lindsey never got over each other and for the rest of their life have found petty ways to annoy the other and even write songs about each other decades after their relationship ended.
I used to think Fleetwood Mac had ridiculous petty fights until you read about Van Halen. I think most of that stemmed from the brothers owning and controlling the band. If you have ever worked for a business owned by a family you know what that is like. Alex Van Halen still will not talk to Sammy Hagar because the tequila business that Alex made Sammy sign and take control of (because it was losing money and Alex saw it as a risk) made Sammy Hagar $80 million dollars. Alex wanted out of the tequila deal so bad that he brought in a lawyer to make Sammy be accountable for it all and made Sammy buy his shares as it was losing money. When Sammy got rich over it Alex refused to talk to him. Eddie literally white washed and deleted Michael Anthony and his credits from the Van Halen website and as if he never existed in the band. He was erased because he was neutral in the fight between Sammy and Eddie. I wont even get into the David Lee Roth vs Sammy Hagar drama. Sammy Hagar never knew why Eddie freaked out and wanted him out of the band. Sort of like when Lindsey was fired. No one could really make sense of it.
Rock stars can be extremely arrogant, superficial ego maniacs.

Yep I'm sure most of the stuff was petty and trivial. Many folks continue to be difficult into their old age lol, and these two just seemed to irritate the crap out of each other. Stuff just festered and was brought up again and again, plus the enormous egos of (most) rock stars didn't help. The older stevie got, the more "yes" people she seemed to surround herself with... and maybe felt somehow obligated or pissy enough about Lindsey's opinions or behavior to constantly push back against issues big and small. It was like a never-ending power struggle and it doesn't seem they had much sense of humor about any of it.

If there are unresolved feelings in a relationship, even after decades, i'm sure it can be difficult to NOT be defensive or resentful to a degree, esp considering the feisty, fiery, opinionated intensity of S&L. Being kind of forced to be around each other when working i suppose made it unlikely much progress would ever be made. Fortunately, J&C didn't seem to have these issues but their personality types are sooo different from the Americans. They had a closeness that L&S simply did not have. Would have loved to have been a fly on that amp ! :xoxo:

--Lis

Not that I bought they'd fallen in love again in 1997, not at all. But I did enjoy those tender glances during The Dance. Many of us did. And I think that although they already had clashes during SYW, as we saw in the Destiny Rules video, by 2005 they were still enjoying sharing the stage, or so it seems here:
Say Goodbye
I love that version much more than the album one.

I think that is all rubbish. I remember the people that would write concert reviews of The Dance on the NicksFix saying how Stevie and Lindsey were in love and were going to rekindle their relationship after the tour. Many fans that became fans during the Dance believed this myth. The reality is Chris did not want to tour. Lindsey already fled the lunatics. Stevie had it out for Mick. I remember first hearing how the Mac was reuniting on Entertainment Tonight and Stevie saying she was no longer angry at these people. It was all for the money. For the short Mirage tour Lindsey and the members probably grossed a few thousand dollars. For Tusk they probably made a million. That was lots of money back then. But when the Dance came up they were to make several million each for just 6 weeks of touring not including all the money from the album.
The Mac did not reunite for artistic or creative reasons. Stevie and Lindsey did not fall in love. Mick, Chris, and John still drank like sailors. The only good thing that came out was Chris and Stevie quit smoking.

long, long, long before that. she was difficult when the fame went to her head in the 70s, and once she had success as a solo performer, forget it. wasn't it the mirage album where she was miffed about the way they were doing something and she threatened them with "how will it look in the press if i come out and say I don't like it" etc etc..... she held them hostage for decades, threatening to bad mouth albums, or threatening to not tour, etc in order to get her way, to get more money, to get the most "star" treatment of them all..... Lindsey more than anyone would tell her off, but even he over time came to have to cater to her whims more and more.

it also got worse once she had her own "team" to back her up-- Irving, Howard Kaufman, Karen, and who knows who all else. She had/has a whole posse on her payroll like courtiers to the queen.

I've said it a billion times...

Stevie Nicks is the WORST thing that ever happened to FM.

Creativity died, when the old goat gained control.

Interesting, every day I learn something new about my weird favorite band. Where did you read or hear that?

I actually think that was referring to Tango. She was never there, and barely on the album. The layered her harmonies on at the last minute. But yeah, she wielded control after Bella Donna.

(I just woke up, so maybe I'm not clear, yet. Lol)

Shame on you!
You quote Mick's book all the time. Its in there. Stevie got out of rehab and came into the studio pissed off. She complained to everyone she should be on the album more and should be singing back up on Everywhere. Christine had a few glasses of wine in here confronted Stevie and said that she wanted Stevie on backup vocals BUT YOU WERE NOT HERE. Stevie then threatened to go to Rolling Stone magazine and tell them she had nothing to do with the album.
Mick alleges this is when Lindsey layered her vocals in.

As Homer recall, the "but you weren't here" is from Tango, not Mirage. I'm not ashamed :) .

I don't remember a threat from Stevie about leaving the band in France or at any Mirage moment, in Mick's book. But I do remember a quote about Tusk:

The title refers to a jocular term of affection for the Male Member: old habits die hard in Fleetwood Mac. (When Stevie heard that we had decided to name the album Tusk, she threatened to quit the band in revulsion. But I chose to ignore her and nothing ever came of it.)

However it doesn't include a threat to go to the press and say she didn't like an album. I don't remember reading or hearing that, hence the question.

Shame shame everyone knows your name.
The original poster pointed out Stevie threatened to go to the press about an album. As another poster pointed out it was about Tango. The shame on you was because you quote Mick's book every day yet forget this detail from the book. My post was giving you the specific threat from Stevie about going to the press. It was Rolling Stone magazine. Its in the book. Its not that she did not like an album. It was that she was not included and not on the album enough.
Read the book!

I believe it was in Micks book and referred to Tango. When she listened to the album, she was mad she was hardly on it. And said something like how would it feel to tell RS she was hardly on it. Chris reminded her she wasn't ever there and apologize and she could be added to some background vocals. Which she did.

THat's right. I just checked the book. My confusion was because at first I read about her threatening to say that she didn't like the (Mirage) album. This is what Mick wrote:

We did have one blowout with Stevie when she came to the studio to listen to the mixes before Tango in the Night was released. After the playback was finished, she began to storm around the studio like a tornado. "It's like I'm not evenon this record," she complained. "I can't hear myself at all." I knew Stevie pretty well, and could tell she was angry. Then she threatened us. "All right, maybe I wasn't able to get to the studio that much, but how is it going to look when the record comes out and I might have to tell Rolling Stone that I didn't work on it?"

Christine McVie's eyes narrowed. She'd had a couple of glasses of wine, and wasn't about to be trifled with. "OK, Stevie," she said, "what are you so upset about?" "I should be singing on 'Everywhere,'" Stevie said. "You should hear me singing harmony on that song."

"I wanted you to sing on it too," Chris said in measured tones that signaled she was furious, "but you weren't here. In fact, we've been working for a year and you were only with us for a couple of days. Now why don't you just say you're sorry and we'll work it out?"

Omits gracefully, Stevie capitulated in front of the whole band, and we gleefully layered her vocals into the mix of the album, which now sounded indeed more like Fleetwood Mac. Stevie had been right after all, and so had Christine.

I agree with Christine point. And if it was a threat it was absurd. By acknowledging her absence during the record sessions, she would have been the one who would have looked bad instead of the band.

************ applause **********

For the record, Stevie did like Mirage. She is asked about Mirage during her MTV interviews in 1982 where she said she liked it much more than Tusk and that is was much more like Rumours.
And if Stevie is on Everywhere I can't hear her :lol:

That's what I immediately thought after reading it for the first time. And I still do. Did she actually complain about Everywhere? Or was it a Mick's confusion? Cause I never found where Stevie sings there. I supposed it was Little Lies, but there is no "early version" of LL in the Deluxe edition. I wonder why not. :lol:

Only Lindsey knows for sure and unless he writes a tell all book we shall never know. Lindsey only said he used technology to make his voice sound like Stevie on a few places and it was him that did the last verse of When I See You Again to finish the song. We dont know what is real and what is not real and probably never will.
Mick could have been purposely misleading or in the dark like the rest of us.
Her layered in vocals are much more obvious on BTM. Besides her songs she only sings with the band on Skies The Limit and Back of My Mind. She is not even on the chorus of Save Me but layered in a few times at the end "Save Me." She does one moan on the title track. She does not sing chorus on When The Sun Goes Down but mysteriously appears for one "take good care."

Someone isolated the vocals for "Everywhere" in this video, which you can find below. I might hear Stevie at the 20 second mark of this video, particularly for the lyric "be with you everywhere". On the regular studio version, it's far more difficult to make out her voice with all of the instrumentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzzKQ9R0RTU