Songbird - Lesley Ann Jones
 

Hiya - has anyone read it yet?

Reading it now. However, go one thread below. We are all arguing about it.

Good times!!

Tusky, have you read it yet?

Hi, Tusky.

The top review on Amazon says this:

“This person didn't really know Christine
Reviewed in the United States on November 19, 2024
I started reading this and realized. This person had no idea who christine is or was. She found information on the internet. Yes she had met her, but I doubt that she was a real friend to Chris. Stock photos from the internet and stories I don't think are even accurate. I am angry I bought this book. Save your money. Maybe Christine's brother and nephew will write a book about her. They knew her and loved her!”

Based on what I’ve observed in a recent Jones interview and from the sampling shared in another thread, I’m inclined to agree.

I got it the other day and skimmed through it. Very disappointed.

This.

There are far too many opportunists out there these days. A fool and his money are soon parted.

hmm, why does that review not surprise me? i'll read the damn book because i can't not read it, but as i think i said in another thread somewhere, i got google vibes from her listening to her in that interview w those 2 guys. Probably the details of stuff she *actually* heard in her talks w chris over the years could maybe fill one chapter, but she needed to dig up a hell of a lot more stock info to write a book.

and unfortunately, I don't think her brother or nephew or anyone *truly* close to her who loved her would ever write a book... BECAUSE they loved her!

--Lis

I would not think we are arguing about it. Discussing it is more like it :)
Unauthorized biographies are usually one of three types: Ones that reveal deeply sensitive information about scandal that is exaggerated to sell books, ones that reveal nothing and is a rehash of what everyone already knows, and lastly ones that are nothing but a cheerleader praising someone over and over. I also believe that no one should ever criticize a book without reading it first. What I pointed out seemed to rub some people the wrong way which confused me because I believe the book contains 90% of things we already know or strongly inferred about her life. Chris has already discussed her dependence on pain killers until she had a "wake up call." The book only reveals what the wake up call was. We all knew her days in Kent were rather dark. Nothing new there. We knew her career choices changed in a major way in 1990. The book only suggests the death of her dad had a bigger impact on her than some people may have realized. Maybe its the affairs part that is irking some people. We all imagined how hard it must have been to be the only woman in a band that was a major touring band. The Mac albums were not big sellers and they made their money on the road. We knew about the groupies and John's drinking. We knew it had to be a tough time. The parts of the book that detail this time is sort of what you would imagine a woman would see and go through in her position. We already knew the band gave Chris veto power of hiring Stevie. The book only suggests more detail on how Chris was more against the idea of Stevie in the band than just giving her veto power.
I suppose the juicy part is the allegation that Stevie and Dennis hooked up. A surprise but is it really? The two most drugged out, crazed rockers of all time hooking up in a band that slept with everyone is not a bridge too far to believe in my book. I also dont understand why when Chris found out matters. Whether it was 1980 or 1997. There is a boundary some should not cross. The military has it. No solider or officer will ever mess with another enlisted's spouse. Fleetwood Mac had that with Bob Weston because he slept with a band member's spouse. As crazed as they were that was forbidden and an unspoken rule. If Chris was depressed during the Dance and was a reluctant touring warrior. She was on a tour she did not want to partake, her marriage was failing, and her fear of flying was bothering her. In that fragile state she found out its not the affair that would bother her, its the disloyalty. So if it was true I can see why it bothered her even though it was so long ago in their crazy days.
I may nor may not buy the book but I have yet to read anything that is unfair, scandalous, or impossible to believe. It appears to be a book that 90% of it is going to be stuff we already know. I have to pinch myself sometimes because there are times I swear I am on an Air Supply message board and not Fleetwood Mac.
If Chris's brother or her surviving family had any issue with the book they would have publicly said so. Their silence is seen as an endorsement IMHO. The only one that looks bad in this book is Stevie. She is her drug crazed, sexed crazed self. John could have been portrayed as a real scoundrel but he's not. Its implied they were both "doing it to each other." We have empathy for both of them.

Now who wants to fight about this book? Please let me be Stevie so I can throw watermelon and pineapple chunks in all of your hair. If anyone dances behind me I am kicking you in your shins.

Same. Now that I'm older, I enjoy reading everything about the band, even the dissenting and unpopular opinions of them. I think most fans who like to have these discussions are on Reddit now, but I'm glad to see some fans still like to discuss on The Ledge.

I borrowed the ebook from the library, which gives me a chance to see if it's worth buying the book. Since there haven't been any good books on just Christine, I'll end up buying it.

The Stevie-Dennis revelation was a shock to read, but I wasn't surprised given the crazy rock and roll bubble that was their existence. The people they hooked up with were also in that bubble, so it was inevitable if Dennis was truly everything Christine described him to be. I'll bet hooking with Dennis was one of those "forbidden" and "outrageous" affairs that Stevie wrote about. But there's a line not to cross among good friends, and unfortunately, it was crossed. So Jones provides a sound argument for why Christine eventually left the band. And if you factor in that Christine's personality type was probably more on the introverted side, her flight response to cut all ties made perfect sense. You basically retreat to a time and place that was safe and secure. For Christine, that was her beloved England and family who ended up protecting her from the band at the end.

I think the grief of losing her father accelerated her decision to return to England. So, the years from 1999 to 2004 weren't initially dark. They were mainly about reconnecting with friends and family, like her brother and nephew for the recording of In the Meantime. From interviews I'd read, this seems to have been a very fun and healing time for her. But over the next 7-8 years, it sounds like she realized a quiet country life of baking cookies and attending community events wasn't how her story should end. Perhaps therapy helped clear her mind, face her demons, get over the fear of flying, and ultimately see what should come next.

It would have only been natural to have those reservations since she had led the band as its sole female member for almost five years, putting up with A LOT of sh*tty men along the way. But Christine could always see the bigger picture and set aside her own personal feelings for the sake of the band, another introvert quality! So she'd often buy into the best narrative, that she-Lindsey-Stevie had musical chemistry.

^^
I'm not familiar with anything on Reddit except fawning, adoring opinions. Those who have been fans for any length of time, aren't there, based on my view... I spent some time there after that last RS interview came out, reading what they had to say. Most of it strikes one note only, as I recall.

The book reviews at Amazon are varied. From “horrible, it’s more about the history of England during the war”, to “LAJ takes us on her journey with Fleetwood Mac, her ups and downs in love and marriage but most of all her incredible talent that was the glue that kept the band together.” The average is 3 stars. I'll wait a little longer to decide whether to buy it.

In the meantime, excerpts from the book would be welcome here. :)

Just out of curiosity, cause at this point it is not important at all, I was looking for articles about the Dennis-Christine relationship, and I found this one with this funny episode. It really made me laugh, while I imagined someone digging a big hole in my garden. Though I think Christine was not amused.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2004/jun/18/1

An early sign of Wilson's lack of control came when, as a token of his love for McVie, he hired a team of people to dig up her back garden into a giant heart shape. He was intending to fill the heart-shaped hole with roses, but he never got round to it. "My lawn was now just a big pile of dirt. He had all these people holding a candle around the edge of it, slowly sinking into the mud. Then he got up on the balcony and proposed to me. Then he sent me the bill for the work. I suppose his heart was in the right place."

You and that book. You know, while perusing the infernets yesterday, I came across one gallon jugs of lubricant. I'm ordering one with your name on it. :woohoo:

What? I don't understand your point, I didn't quote any book. Please explain.

"The heart shaped garden" story is from Mick's first book.

Are you sure? I got the digital book and made different searches with the words garden, hole, roses. I couldn't find it. And I didn't remember that episode, that's why I found it funny.

I read that book at least 50 times, back in the day. I'm sure.

there's a pic of Christine and Dennis in her back yard (I want to say sitting on the grass) with the heart-shaped "garden" behind them... I think it got half-planted with roses or whatever but never finished. I want to say I saw it in People magazine at the time.....:shrug:

here's one: https://www.famousfix.com/post/chris...ilson-21217175

Still looking for the one I'm remembering....

maybe I was thinking of this: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...84999561560342

I think I still have that clipping, somewhere. I lost my Tusk tour book in a flood, but I think all my clippings survived.

Book review…
 

Book Review – Songbird: An Intimate Biography of Christine McVie by Lesley-Ann Jones – Is ‘Songbird’ a Fitting Tribute to Christine McVie?
Patti AliventiDecember 9, 2024

Note: Thank you to NetGalley, Hachette Books, and author Lesley-Ann Jones for the advanced reader copy of this book. This review will also be posted on NetGalley. What follows is my unbiased review of the book.

When you have a situation where the subject of your book was a fairly private person and is now deceased, and her friends, relatives, and coworkers all refuse to talk to you, perhaps it’s time to rethink whether or not you should really be writing about them in the first place. Christine McVie was just such a person, and this is a book that probably shouldn’t have been written.

Christine McVie (born Christine Anne Perfect) was the keyboardist, vocalist, and one of the songwriters behind many of Fleetwood Mac’s greatest hits. However, she was fine standing behind her keyboards while Stevie Nicks took center stage. She gave some interviews, but not many, and rarely talked badly about anyone, which means a lot of what went on in her life was not discussed in those interviews.

With Christine’s death in 2022, the only testimonies straight out of her mouth are those scant interviews left behind. The author also had a bit of a personal relationship with her, but even that seems to be one where Christine kept her at a distance, as she seemed to do with most people. There are many things about her the author doesn’t know, and many situations are described with words like “suggested” or “likely”. In other words, the author has no clue what actually happened and is taking an (educated?) guess.

To make matters worse, throughout a good part of the book, Jones uses feedback from a clinical psychologist who never worked with McVie to describe what things “must have been like” for her or how she “must have felt.” I found myself disgusted at these parts for two reasons. One is that he never talked with McVie so he is analyzing her without her consent or permission (nor that of her family) based on videos and interviews. I thought psychologists were prohibited from doing this. The other is that he assigns feelings to her that she may or may not have had based on statements she makes. For instance, her mother was thought to have been a medium and was also a ghost hunter in Christine’s younger days, at a time when that was not the subject of numerous television shows. Based on one line in an interview, the psychologist has decided that Christine resented her mother’s absence and just wanted a “normal” childhood. There’s no way to ask her what she meant by that line, but his interpretation is presented as the truth throughout the book.

Without conversations with McVie herself or any of the members of Fleetwood Mac or any of her family, what is left to write about? The author manages to fill 353 pages with a whole lot of filler. Pages and pages are filled with tangents that have nothing to do with McVie’s life, except having occurred while she was alive. I learned more about the British Blues scene in the 1960s and 1970s than I ever thought I wanted to know. However, seeing how the author came to conclusions about a lot of things in this book, I have to wonder how accurate it all is. Many of the people who did talk to her seemed to be self-serving, as in they think that the mention in this book might help their credibility in the music business, or what’s left of it.

Overall, Songbird was too much speculation and too much filler. Two stars almost seem too generous, but there was good information about the music business and the many incarnations of Fleetwood Mac. I still maintain that it was a book that probably shouldn’t have been written. If I weren’t reading it for a review, I probably would not have finished it.

Nearly all these books are like this. SPECULATIONS of the author.

Still probably more accurate that anything Stevie pretends to remembers...

Yep. I have to agree with that review and I'm only a few chapters in. It's sooo much filler and speculation and BS from this psychiatrist or whatever. and she makes some assertions that to me come across as somewhat disrespectful. the whole thing about how chris resented her mother, how she maybe was made to feel less than because she had no psychic ability or true academic prowess. The way she continually presents dennis as 'the love of her life' and 'the one' with really nothing to back that up. The way she says -- just after a quote from chris on how she and john were in love when they got married-- she asks, 'But were they?' I mean wtf?? and then goes on to say that it was *really* peter green that chris adored. 'she'd had a crush on him for as long as she could remember'-- what, a few months?? They barely knew each other! and how J and C felt they had to get married because of societal pressure or some BS like that.... ugh i can go on and on and that's only up to like chapter seven but I agree that Jones really didn't seem to know chris at all .... she just took the few chats she'd had with her as well as some well known interviews and wrote the book around that, padding it with tons of useless info and guesses and filler.

also pissed me off that she mentioned that john had a sister who died, and the only place in the world to my knowledge where he EVER mentioned that would be one of his Q&As here at this website!! so a credit might have been nice, Ms. Jones lol.

OH--and another part where chris apparently told Lesley that she was in her marriage to john "for the duration," and that she thought he was also, which IMO was a lovely sentiment of their feelings and commitment-- but then Jones has this bit from Dave Ambrose on how he tried to sort of make a move on chris while she was married (but it depended how drunk he was if he found her attractive because she had a fruity nose that didn't do her face any favors??) and that he didn't see what chris ever saw in john.

To me it's like this author was trying to paint dennis as being far more than he was, while minimizing/showing her marriage and feelings for john in a dismissive/negative light. It really rubs me the wrong way. I really hope he never opens this book. I'm sure he won't, to be honest. I doubt her family will, either.

let me shut up. I think the BBC special presented a more accurate picture of her life.

--Lis

LOL, Dave “I was the original bass player for Fleetwood Mac” Ambrose?

yes, that's the one. he was hoping John would quit to be chris's manager (as he apparently had been tossing that idea around) so he could go back to FM, but that never happened. Luckily.

--Lis

This review is unfortunately spot on. I'm 1/2 way thru the book and it's painfully obvious that it's speculation and completely unedited filler, in an attempt to put a novel together.

Like many, after the interview we listened to, we knew what this was going to be.

Yeah—I was so turned off by the author’s podcast/interview whatever that I refuse to purchased this trash.

The reviewer got it right. Christine was private and wanted it that way.

And, that's truly the case here. She was private, and it shows because at least half the book has been read, and I haven't really been enlightened about who Christine McVie was, other than: Wow, what a sad and lonely rock star she was that suddenly couldn't deal with her best friend's betrayal, but didn't find out until 20 years later. (if you believe that, stand on your head). And the early british blues scene which the descriptions were vague at best.

But, if you read the book, you really do get the vibe there isn't much to write about. And, this person had only a few meetings to go from.

Great British WW2 history, though!!

I imagine Christine had a pretty active life. Sounds like the author couldn't access it.

A fascinating book idea: a song-by-song breakdown of her catalogue, with discussions about chords, melodies, songwriting strategies, etc. You know, the stuff WE would want...

Some inside stories and a connection of events of her life would have been great from someone actually on the inside. This is a thesis paper with a ton of research done from other sources, some of which weren't inside.

Actually, the one I want an honest, unexaggerated tell-all book from is Sandra. She was there for it all. It’ll never happen, but she’s probably the one who knows where all the bodies are buried.

Thank you for posting this. Its exactly what I have been saying since the book was released. None of us have interviewed Chris yet we all could have written this book. Nothing new is revealed. It is full of speculation that any reasonable person would make. Yes affairs do impact your well being and make you depressed. Chris was not thrilled about another woman in the band. Death of parents have impact on you.
This is why I was puzzled by some of the pearl clutching about it. Stevie also has had books similarly written about her. Nothing new revealed either. She was mad at Lindsey and never got over the relationship. Drugs are bad, blah blah blah.
All of it is what we already know i.e. Stevie slept with everyone :lol: