The Tango sessions were this bad?
 

We know the struggles Lindsey went through during the making of this album. But I will cut and paste this from wikipedia with sources. We know Lindsey faked Stevie's voice in several areas. However, were we not led to believe it was because of Stevie's absence? Apparently Stevie showed up intoxicated and her vocals were so bad that Lindsey deleted them after she left. Mick admits he forced Lindsey to make Tango and has regrets that no one was listening to him when he was trying to speak. Now it makes sense because during the reissue of Tango, I have always said that Stevie sounds drunk on Ooh My Love. There were no good demos of hers that came from these sessions. Its clear Lindsey had standards and what Stevie got away with in the studio during RAL (quality of sound) was not going to damage this record. Its also no surprise why her songs are so bad on this record.

*****cut and pasted****

Although the record eighteen months to complete, Stevie Nicks spent a total of two weeks in the studio with the band, as she was promoting her third solo record, Rock a Little, throughout this period. Nicks sent demos of her songs to the band, recorded while she was on tour, for them to work on in her absence. "Welcome to the Room... Sara" was inspired by her thirty-day stay at the Betty Ford Center to overcome her cocaine addiction in October 1986 (Nicks used the pseudonym "Sara Anderson" when she checked into the facility).[16][17][18]

When Nicks did go to the studio, she often felt unmotivated: "I can remember going up there and not being happy to even be there... I didn't go very often". With vocal sessions taking place in Buckingham's master bedroom, Nicks recorded her parts for Buckingham and McVie's songs intoxicated. Given their poor quality, Buckingham was forced to erase most of Nicks' vocals from these recording sessions after she left the studio.[19]

Buckingham recorded some of the vocals using a Fairlight, an early sampling synthesizer.[20] On "When I See You Again", he re-assembled separately recorded takes of Nicks, explaining, "I had to pull performances out of words and lines and make parts that sounded like her that weren't her".[8] "That was in my estimation when everybody in the band was personally at their worst. By the time we did Tango in the Night, everybody was leading their lives in a way that they would not be too proud of today".[21]

With pressure on Buckingham to keep the project focused and moving forward, things came to a head shortly after the release of Tango in the Night. At a band meeting at Christine McVie's house to discuss the accompanying tour, he announced his departure. "The album was well received", noted Mick Fleetwood. He continued, "Somewhat sadly, the kudos of that was never really fully attributed to Lindsey because he wasn't present... He was coerced and persuaded to do that album—mainly by me. And, to his credit, he put aside everything that he'd dreamt of doing, including making his own album, for Fleetwood Mac, but then realised that he'd made a mistake... Lindsey was not being heard. We just didn't get it".[22]

Already I’m confused by this timeline. It says Stevie sent demos to the band while she was on tour for RAL; then it says Welcome to the Room Sara was written and recorded after she went to rehab… which was after her RAL tour was over. So apparently some of the album was done after rehab.

While I appreciate Lindsey did the album as a favor to Mick, guess what- so did everyone else. Stevie said she didn’t want to be there, and she barely participated, but she did sing 3 songs. Christine did her best work here, too. She outshines Stevie and Lindsey so much on this album. And John didn’t have to work on this album, either. So does Lindsey deserve kudos? Absolutely, but so do Christine and John. Mick benefitted from the album, but they all did. A lot. And considering Lindsey’s solo stuff didn’t sell as much as FM, it benefitted him to have his solo songs Caroline, Tango, Family Man, and Big Love on this album, because they got maximum exposure they wouldn’t have gotten otherwise. I’m sure Lindsey knows this, too.

Huh?
Confused by the timeline? Its true she sent them demos while on the RAL tour. WTTRS was definitely written and recorded post rehab. It may have been the final track recorded and slapped on the record. Apparently all the songs were crap and Welcome/Sara was the least worst option.
The only reason I posted this was because the part of Lindsey deleting Stevie's vocals pre-rehab. I had not heard that so direct before. I knew she was rare in the studio but much of the reason Lindsey was crafty was because Stevie was so terrible and then not around because of rehab. I wish Lindsey would write a book someday. IMHO listening to Ooh My Love tells a story. Its so bad I was surprised the Mac released it on their Tango deluxe reissue.

I think a book by Lindsey would be incredibly fascinating. Doesn’t seem likely, though. Sorry you don’t like how Stevie sounds on Ooh My Love- I loved the outtake on the Deluxe Edition but I’ll have to listen to it again to see if I can hear what you’re hearing with her vocals. As for Stevie’s least worst option, I would give that honor to When I See You Again.

Learning more about when each song was recorded for Tango would be cool, and certainly interesting. I wonder if Christine had any idea at the time how stellar her contributions were? Or any of the band members, for that matter. Little Lies, Isn’t It Midnight, Everywhere, Mystified… not a bad song in the bunch! And why Down Endless Street didn’t make the album over Family Man is hard to comprehend.

I wanted to add, it’s always been curious to me that Lindsey left when he did. I totally understand that making that album was not fun for him, but the thing is, the worst was over: Stevie went to rehab and quit drugs, Mick knocked off the drugs, and the album was complete. By all accounts, Stevie, the biggest problem at the time, was doing well at that point, and totally recommitted to touring with them. I wonder if the tour had gone well, if that would have kept them together and with another album following. Moot point, but this post got me thinking ‘what if?’

Based on how Mick looks in the Tango video, I'll wager that Lindsey knew what he was talking about when he said the road was always worse!



But yeah, it would be a cool alternate timeline to see.


I think Family Man belongs on TITN over Down Endless Street.
I also am an outlier in that I think WTTRS is not bad. It's got a rich, full band sound, Stevie's vocals on it are not as problematic as on Whassamatterbaby, and the jungly vibe to the music is a good fit with the album's motif. Granted the lyrics and title are a bit off the wall.

The first cut is the deepest one of alllllllllll

Mirrors of her former self…

Food for thought: James Taylor made Carly Simon and her family use port-a-potties and wouldn’t let them in his house at their kid’s wedding.

Some exes would do anything to avoid being anywhere near an ex’s personal place or letting an ex into their’s.

Recording in Lindsey’s bedroom was understandably a bit much for Stevie and she needed to lubricate. I doubt anyone doesn’t feel a little sympathy for her on that point. Why she didn’t pull a little rank and insist on recording her parts in a studio is a bit of a mystery.

The worst was not over. You work with addicts so you know addicts usually relapse or substitute another substance. Stevie started klonopin and she even said in the interview that it caused her to not show up or show up late. I really dont think Lindsey was going to trust her especially since she could not even complete the 30 days in rehab and ran away after 28 days. Mick's substance abuse continued well after Tango. A recovering addict cant be around parties and other drug users. I think the experience of making the album just made him want to cut ties with these people. I think Mick even acknowledged that bringing drug dealers to Lindsey's house was so wrong. There is a photo of Stevie smoking one of her kool 100's sitting in a chair next to Lindsey during the Tango sessions. Stevie looks so tired or completely wasted and Lindsey is looking at her almost trying to peak her interest. That photo does not say "I'm clean, lets go on tour"

But Stevie did quit using cocaine, and by all accounts the tour with Rick and Billy went incredibly well. Stevie’s dependence on Klonopin was very gradual, she didn’t quit using cocaine and the next day become addicted to Klonopin. Her time after Betty Ford was successful in the sense that she quit cocaine, went on tour with FM, recorded with them on at least 3 new songs, then did her solo album and tour for the OSOTM, followed immediately by another album and tour with FM. She was very productive until the Klonopin became an issue during the Behind the Mask tour, but from 1987-1990, she was in a much better place, and I think Lindsey would have responded well to that. His mind was made up, though. Ultimately it worked out fine, I mean BTM is one of my favorite albums ever, so if Lindsey hadn’t left, that album wouldn’t have been made.

You realize Lindsey toured with Stevie for years. He heard the stories from her RAL tour. He saw her behavior in the Tango studio. He had no reason to believe it was going to be good. The bridge was already burned. He had enough and wanted out regardless of any potential of sobriety on the road. He did not want to walk away from the album and wanted to finish it and then hit the escape hatch. The point am fascinated with is Lindsey deleting Stevie's vocals because they were so bad. I was fascinated many years after Tango release that it was not Stevie on Family Man. Damn Lindsey was so good with that machine. There is controversy if Stevie is on Everywhere or even Little Lies.
I demand to know these answers!

There’s no question that’s Stevie on Little Lies. Everywhere, I don’t know but I presume that’s her. Family Man I couldn’t possibly listen to that song again to see if I can tell who’s singing background- yuck.

Dont be so sure. I would have never believed it was not Stevie on Family Man. When I heard it was Lindsey with his machine, I went back and listened very closely. Lindsey was very crafty and he did all sort of voice things on this record. He even made his own voice sound like a woman grunting. Until I hear Lindsey's perspective, I am not convinced either way because I have already been amazed. I also thought it was Stevie on Everywhere too. Mick's book gives circumstantial evidence its not when Stevie flew into a rage that she SHOULD be on background vocals on that song. And Chris told Stevie she wanted it but YOU were not around. If Lindsey's machine and gadgetry sounds just like Stevie on Family Man, then I am open to the possibilities on other songs. Lindsey even took the original Seven Wonders vocal track and sped it up without making Stevie sound like a chipmunk. This is why we need a Lindsey book. Another piece of circumstantial evidence on Little Lies. We hear the Tell me Lies part but in the chorus we dont really hear Stevie. Why? She sang only the tell me lies line and then not the chorus? Seems odd. Like I said, I could go either way but its pretty amazing. Another possibility is that it is Stevie's voice but she was not there to sing it. Somehow he got her voice and inserted it in the song.


Or just maybe Stevie has a twin we never knew about. She was also born in the desert. She does not perform live but sneaks in for vocal tracks. If you ever notice we never see the solo Stevie and the Fleetwood Mac Stevie at the same place. Rumor has it she sings back up for Kelly Clarkson.

I've never understood this. To me there's a clear timbral difference between their three voices, and it's so obvious when high "girly" backing vocals are actually Lindsey, ie all throughout Tango and SYW. Or at least, it's clear when Christine or Stevie's voices are absent. Lindsey and Chris' vocals do have a big overlap in timbre (think how they bleed together in Don't Stop), but there's a rich and warm quality to Chris's voice that makes it unmistakable as to which tracks she's on (eg Steal Your Heart Away) and which she's not on. For whatever reason (Lindsey usurping total control of the project? Christine not being fully available?), Lindsey and his backing vocals are the substrate of Tango, atop of which Christine and Stevie make cameos.

Just listened to Big Love and was impressed by the bass line. It's busy like a John bass line but very fast and stays in the low keys. I assume it was John but maybe it was sped up? Sorry if it's common knowledge.

Her other tracks aside, Stevie pulls out the stops for Seven Wonders and nails it. Chris and Lindsey are vocally at the top of their game. Too bad that lineup never lived to match the beauty again in a studio album. But they went out on a high note, just as Lindsey wished.

I’m going by memory, but in Mick’s book when he mentioned Stevie complained that she wasn’t on the record much, they argued a bit and then Lindsey added her and everyone felt better. I figure that’s when she was added to Little Lies. So we have to agree to disagree- after all, some people say they can’t hear Stevie on Magnet and Steel, but can hear her on Heart of Stone. So who knows.

The biggest mystery is Don't Come Around Here No More. When I first heard the song on the radio in 1985, I thought wow its cool Stevie is singing back up. I was shocked she was not credited on the album to find out she did not sing. It was Sharon Celani who sang back up. Is it her familiar voice that made me think it's Stevie? Or is Stevie really there but not credited. I go back and forth. I say no now but every now and then when I hear that song I swear I hear her.

That is a wholesome sentence there:laugh:

But I get you, no drama for the recording.

We've been through this. Stevie is on the three songs on which she sings lead, "Little Lies," the extended mix (but not the album mix) of "Big Love," and that's it. Nothing else.

AND...the extended mix of Family Man. It's not much, I know, but I actually love her weird vocal additions to the extended mixes of those songs!

There's a (pop) country guy named David Nail, whose first album I absolutely fell in love with. Played it EVERY DAY for a couple of years.

Other than FM, I've never been much of a liner notes reader. After more than a couple years of being obsessed with it, I finally read the notes. It was WADDY playing guitar on it!!!

Coincidence? Maybe not? Maybe it was a sound I was so familiar with, that it just sucked me in?

Remember the 2017 Salon article by Annie Zaleski? Dashut and Greg Droman shared some great information:

• Droman hit it off with Dashut while engineering “Can’t Help Falling in Love” at Rumbo, so much so that Dashut pulled Droman over to work on “Time Bomb Town” at the same studio.

• Lindsey had Droman start engineering his 1986 solo album at Rumbo, down the hall from where Fleetwood Mac was just starting sessions for their next album (with Jason Casaro). When Lindsey decided to put his album on hold, Droman thought he was out of a job — until Dashut called him down the hall to engineer the Mac sessions.

• Lindsey was paying close attention to Kate Bush at the time, who was using some of the same studio technology that he was.

• The most important technological innovation on Tango was not the Fairlight digital samplings but the use of variable speed — recording and playback at half speed or twice speed — which created the crystal-like high end and chorusy quality on the album. The band spent huge amounts of time recording or modifying parts and bits at variable speed, adjusting until an effect in the sonics was achieved.

• Lindsey was handling a lot more engineering at the micro level in 1986 than he had a decade prior. Consequently, Dashut and Droman helped with basics such as setting levels or mics but then stepped back and offered mostly spoken support while Lindsey ran the board.

• Tango was recorded and mixed to analog tape (when other bands were immersed in digital) but used a two-track digital machine for mastering. Just like with Jaws in 1976, however, this digital machine wound up eating the bits of manually spliced tapes, which made for a crisis every bit as major as the 1976 crisis, when the tape heads destroyed the high end on all the masters.

• Dashut said that cocaine wasn’t a big problem at that point, but marijuana and alcohol were.

Thanks. Listening now.

I don't understand how she could be available to make these positive contributions to these extended mixes but was left off the album versions. Did she do them after the album wrapped?

The story Lindsey has historically presented is that she was unavailable and they had to make do via all manner of gimmickry. Yet here she is on these extended mixes making positive contributions.

I did not mean to reignite the debate about which are Stevie's vocals on Tango. My point was the surprise of Lindsey deleting her vocals after she left. Apparently it was not just her absence that impacted the album but also her lousy vocals. But that should be no surprise. The RAL sessions also had some crappy vocals.

I dont take a position of what Stevie recorded on the other singer's songs on Tango. Lindsey stated or never denied cleverly creating Stevie's voice. I take him at his word. There is not much of Stevie on the other songs so you really have to wonder if its her at all. The remix versions of the singles shed no light on the subject. Remix of singles happen when Warner Brothers is polishing up the album for release and promotion. These were probably done around the same time they filmed the videos. If anything, IMHO the remixes show how much Stevie did not sing on the album tracks. I owned the Little Lies extended remix. Stevie's voice on that remix is completely different than the album track. She was out of rehab, rejoining the band and preparing promoting Tango. Lindsey needs to come clean ;)

There is no dispute its Stevie on Seven Wonders and WISYA. Although Lindsey did some tape stuff and added his own vocal to the end of one of those songs. So the options would be:

A. Everywhere
B. Family Man
C. Little Lies
D. All of the above (either way)

I was not the only one who could swear they could hear Stevie in the chorus in Red Sun although we know she was not there. Lindsey has a way of crafting his voice. I refused to believe Family Man was not Stevie. Someone reported here it was Lindsey a few years ago. I did not believe it until I did my long investigation......slowing down and listening with headphones. I then became convinced it most likely was Lindsey. Then I was like holy crap, if this is Lindsey then its not too far off to believe the other songs are Lindsey too.

I am speaking with no authority, but...

The 'can't disguise' line in Little Lies is a cameo by Stevie. It is 100% her voice, a complex vocal, fingerprint that cannot be modulated from Lindsey's. Also, although further evidence is not needed, the idea that Stevie would be in the video lip-synching that line as if it was her voice but it was actually Lindsey, is something Stevie would have never permitted, or at least we would have heard about it from her by now. All the backing vocals are Lindsey except for two parts in the chorus where Christine harmonizes with herself ("tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies" and "oh no no you can't disguise" panned to the left). Stevie is mostly not shown in the video as singing on the rest of the chorus (because she didn't), except for two aberrant instances at the final chorus, where I guess they wanted the whole band in the one shot and it would look weird for Stevie not to be singing along with Chris and Linds.

"Everywhere" is all Lindsey except the glorious lead vocal by Christine. Stevie's voice makes no appearance.

"Seven Wonders" all three are singing backing vocals on the chorus.

Which part of "Family Man" is even supposed to possible sound like Stevie? The really deep "a family man" part?

Fascinating, David. Thanks for getting me "up to speed".

Their efforts paid off, artistically and financially. There are so many crafty little tweaks, especially to the vocals.

That's crazy. For 20 years I never thought for a minute that was Stevie singing on Family Man. It always appeared super obvious it was an effect on Lindsey's voice.

If anything, I always thought Christine was singing on “Family Man,” but now think it’s just Lindsey’s modulated voice.

I'm an idiot because I always thought that bridge part was Stevie until about 5 years ago. It sounds like her no? My impression was after rehab and the album practically done, Lindsey layered in her voice on Family Man and Everywhere, and Little Lies. But if its not Family Man or Everywhere then its just Little Lies.

The mystery continues then. Which Stevie voice sound is Lindsey doing and which song?

Agreed with pretty much everything you said, but I wouldn’t really consider the video for Little Lies evidence one way or the other. After all, the video for Big Love shows her singing the entire chorus along with Lindsey. Christine, too, I think.

Right, the exact quote at Mick's first book was:

We did have one blowout with Stevie when she came to the studio to listen to the mixes before Tango in the Night was released. After the playback was finished, she began to storm around the studio like a tornado. "It's like I'm not even on this record," she complained. "I can't hear myself at all." I knew Stevie pretty well, and could tell she was angry. Then she threatened us. "All right, maybe I wasn't able to get to the studio that much, but how is it going to look when the record comes out and I might have to tell Rolling Stone that I didn't work on it?"
Christine McVie's eyes narrowed. She'd had a couple of glasses of wine, and wasn't about to be trifled with. "OK, Stevie," she said, "what are you so upset about?"
"I should be singing on 'Everywhere,'" Stevie said. "You should hear me singing harmony on that song."
"I wanted you to sing on it too," Chris said in measured tones that signaled she was furious, "but you weren't here. In fact, we've been working for a year and you were only with us for a couple of days. Now why don't you just say you're sorry and we'll work it out?"
Omits gracefully, Stevie capitulated in front of the whole band, and we gleefully layered her vocals into the mix of the album, which now sounded indeed more like Fleetwood Mac. Stevie had been right after all, and so had Christine.

Previously, there was this:

Stevie finally showed up in January 1987; we'd been working six months, and it was the only time the whole band was in the studio together. We had been sending copies of our working tapes to Stevie's home in Arizona. On her part, she was dreading that Lindsey, in his producing capacity, would be sarcastic toward her, but he made an effort not to be as much of a martinet as he was with the rest of us. He was under some strain with this project, and lost his patience occasionally, but with Stevie we wanted him to be more objective and professional. He tried to make her feel great in the studio, and they got on well. (The love-hate saga between those two will never end.)

Stevie’s vocals are on Little Lies and Everywhere and I still believe maybe deep in the mix of Mystified and Family Man. He does a great job on the title track and You and I with his “ Nicks tricks”

Sounds like wishful thinking, on both counts. :cool: Thanks for the quote.
I note that Mick and his ghost writer do not specify that her voice was added to the Everywhere track per se, or that the attempt to do so became the final product. Yes, it can be implied from the context, but maybe the author deliberately used the obfuscatory phrase "album" here instead of "song/track".

If anyone ever detects the layer on which her vocals were mixed into Everywhere, please point it out to me. Maybe she tried adding that "Wanna be with you" part that she ended up singing in the concerts, but it was ultimately gleefully removed from the album mix at Christine's discretion, after the stormy altercation with Stevie had passed.

I could definitely see Stevie's cameo in Little Lies being something that was added in after the fact, to mollify her and avoid the scenario she raised of the truth of her non-participation being found out.

That totally makes sense. The album was released and in stores in April 1987. She showed up January 1987. Thats not much time. We know Welcome To The Room Sara was recorded and probably when the insert of the Little Lies part as added.
This could explain Mick's quote about her voice being "layerd in." Little Lies was probably a finished project and they cut her parts and "layered" them in. It actually worked to have a double backing vocal in some strange way. Little Lies is the only song on the entire album that sounds like an entire group effort. You can hear everyone playing and singing. Sadly its the only track though. I used to hear Stevie on Everywhere and Family Man but I dont anymore after I saw the light :lol:

I don't get their premise but I wish them all the best!

I’m pretty sure that also applies to 7W and WTTR…S.

My understanding of the club remixes (the 12-inch House on the Hill dub and Piano dub and all that nonsense) is that a third party (Arthur Baker, Jellybean Benitez) grabs the rough mixes and deliberately alters levels and tempos and all that for a club or dance ambience. The only thing they might actually add is a drum machine. So all that caterwauling we hear of Stevie on those remixes is FROM the sessions, and the band opted not to use those tracks on the album. When Lindsey or someone else says that he didn’t “use” or that he removed some Nicks vocals, he means that he didn’t use them for the album — and that’s true. That’s why we don’t hear reckless caterwauling background vocals from Stevie all over the album. They were recorded but avoided, leaving the club remix guys to pull them in again.

Yeah, she may have bitched a bit, been allowed to record some backup vocals, split, and then the others listened to it and thought, “We don’t want that on this.”

That’s my hunch about the sessions for Tango. Some people recorded some things during moments of minimal consciousness — namely Mick, Stevie, and possibly even John — and then the production and engineering staff (Lindsey, Christine, Richard, Greg) listened to the results and figured they had better not keep a lot of that alcohol-fueled garbage on the album. I can imagine that certain members of the band listened to the album when it was ready for mastering and wondered why their drug-addled tracks were inaudible. When you’re stoned, it sounds a lot better than it does months later during your brief sobriety.

That’s why I call Tango the Little White Lies album: I can almost hear Lindsey and Chris stuttering a bit and trying to casually tell the others, “Yeah, we looked and looked and we can’t find those tracks,” or “You never actually recorded that — you had a family emergency that day.”

FM as a band quit sounding like a band with the release of Tusk. Solo Lindsey songs mixed in with Stevie and Christine’s songs. Mirage had a little bit more of the band feel than Tusk, but Tango went right back to the previous formula, with solo Lindsey songs mixed in with Christine and Stevie’s songs. Now whether that was because Stevie was away on a tour or didn’t sound good, who knows, but Behind the Mask was the first FM album that sounded like a cohesive FM album since Rumours.

It’s pretty sad when you have to try to figure out whether Christine was playing keyboards on Lindsey’s songs on Tusk, or if Stevie was singing back up on Tango. Same problem with the “duet” Buck/Vie album, which was the same thing as Say You Will- two solo albums clumped together with little intermingling of the two singers.

So glad we could hear all four singers on Save Me, Skies the Limit, Stand on the Rock, etc.

I thought SYW was a great blend of Stevie and Lindsey. I'm trying to think of isolated, solo songs. I had heard Stevie didn't want to be near "Come". I love Mick on that song.
I guess Stevie isn't on Red Rover. Though when they sang it live she was on it and she sounded great. Stevie's not on Murrow Turning Over in His Grave
But I think WTWCT, Everybody Finds Out, Destiny Rules, Miranda, Peacekeeper, Steal Your Heart Away, Not Make Believe, Silver Girl are band fire to me.

Just curious: how many more copies did BTM sell than SYW worldwide? BTM was # 1 in the UK

Last I heard, Behind the Mask went platinum, Say You Will went gold.

You’re probably to right about the songs that feature both singers, but 8 songs out of 18 is disappointing to me. The songs I like the most from Say You Will are the ones where you can hear both Lindsey and Stevie together. Their harmonies are so beautiful, even without Christine.