Let's talk about... Fleetwood Mac!
 

what a novel concept, right?
so perfectly said. :thumbsup:

i took this out to a separate thread, because it was a reaction in and to a thread that clearly doesn't belong in this forum - while the write up above does. but that out-of-place thread was for some non-explicable reason posted twice in 2 different forums, even though it belongs in neither, and allowed to be talked about, in both forums. :eek:


and then, this perfect post immediately received this rebuttal (under the guise of agreeing with it):

what or who exactly is a "lindsey freak"? seems that you just invented yet another name to bully people, while spouting against name calling. you can't have it both ways, boy. :shrug:

on Anti-Bullying Day too. how appropriate.:rolleyes:

and another perfect post:

Talking about Fleetwood Mac on The Ledge? What a novel concept indeed! :D

Now the only question is whether one wants to discuss selected individual members or the Pre-Rumours, Rumours, Post-Rumours lineups of the band.

:confused:

"You can't have it both ways, boy?"

I think anyone else who read my post knows what I was trying to convey, and I think you did, too.

Our posting styles are just very different, that's all.

Yay for all the provided forums :D

I adore The Ledge, I must say. I hope it prevails eternally. :xoxo:

huh? yes, everyone understood and several people called you on it - you can't have it both ways: YOU are calling people names - in the same post in which you were ranting against calling people names.

i have NEVER ever heard the term "Lindsey freaks." so please tell me - what or who is a "Lindsey freak"? and how is calling anyone "freak" not calling names?

I do not understand the whiny concept of "namecalling" in this forum. That's what happens when people are pissed and right now, most people are pissed, albeit for different reasons, which is the one unifying factor on this board. But noone called anyone an asshole or worse, so imho the whole being oh-so-sensitive about "namecalling" is just emo-bullcrap. Every time something happens with Fleetwood Mac, this board discusses namecalling, instead of just have a go with their opinions and stand behind the emotions that make everyone write in the first place - name them like they are and put the blame where it belongs - onto this stupid band. Or - have a good fight here, that's at least more entertaining than the passive-aggressive pseudo feuding that goes on right now. Get a grip and speak your mind - honest, direct and without being such sissys.

So THAT was rude. I needed that. Bite me. :thumbsup:

I get what bwboy was trying to say, and he certainly hasn't shown any indication on this site that he's a bully :shrug:

"Lindsey freak" was just used as an example of a term that would be equivalent to "Children of Stevie" - which kind of implies that any Stevie fan is some kind of freak.
And so what reaction would that have in Lindsey fans? - clearly not a good one.:distress:

Anyway....... Elle, as you pointed out, it was Anti-bullying day yesterday, maybe we could have anti-bullying day on here instead today. Yes have disagreements, but leave out the nastiness just for a day. It is possible? I hope so :woohoo:

i still don't get what he was trying to say. he was talking against name calling, and then made up yet another name to call people - something-or-other freaks. i don't understand how making up another name for people one doesn't agree with is trying to calm waters.

but i'll gladly listen. and i'm still waiting to hear where that "freak"-name calling came from.

maybe i'm just dense but equating the name that was used (whatever you feeling may be on it!) with the one made up on spot? that makes no sense. :shrug:

also, are you implying i am being nasty? believe me, i can be nasty. and i hold back here, quiet a lot.

There had been quite a few derogatory terms used for Stevie fans lately, and generally people weren't reacting to it, which is great. But does that make it ok? I think bwboy was just trying to demonstrate - how would others feel if derogatory terms were used for Lindsey fans? What kind if reaction does that cause on the board, and how about we all try not to do it so much.

That was my understanding, but maybe I'm not able to explain it well enough, and possibly he'll be able to explain it better than I can.

i do appreciate your efforts, so thanks for that! wonder which ones? in the first post i quoted here, bombay listed following:

"for anyone unhappy with the current FM situation, whether they are FM fans, LB fans, BN fans, or SN fans, these were the terms tossed around here:

Pathetic
Hateful
A Trump voter (which is f&cking hilarious)
a loser with nothing else going on in my life...
A Lindsey fanatic...

Have I missed any of the names that have been thrown around on here by Stevie diehards, who are all upset because they have been called

Children of Stevie
Chiffonheads"

no that certainly wasn't my intention - sorry if it came across that way. I was talking about the general nastiness lately on the board - it seems to have escalated in the past couple of weeks. I know we are going to fight and disagree on here, as that comes with FM territory, but I was suggesting just trying to leave out the worst of the b*tchiness just for a day.

I think his comments came after a post I made yesterday, that a few posters were up in arms about someone saying "pathetic", and I reminded those people that just the day before they were perfectly happy to use the term "Children of Stevie are out of their cells again" as soon as anyone said anything in defence of the rest of the band members.

I think bwboy was looking for a term that would be equivalent to the CoS to demonstrate how derogatory it is, and can we refrain from describing other people here in those terms.

I really didn't want to bring this topic up again, just trying to explain.

And yes we can all try to be not so sensitive about things, but it's also ok to try to sort these issues out.

Hope I'm making some kind of sense??? :shrug:

thanks for clarifying. again i do appreciate it - and any honest discussion. makes the world more interesting! people trying to shut down any discussion and disagreements is what is so puzzling. i guess people are so used to groupthink these days, that they are losing the skills of civil arguing and debate?

back to FM topic: you know what i find really interesting? the divide in the fandom right now seems to be actually less than it used to be in recent years:

• used to be SN fans vs LB fans vs BN fans vs FM fans and then all different combinations.
  
• now it's mostly LB + BN + FM5 + disappointed SN fans all on one side, and then mostly SN-only + pre-and post-BNera FM on the other.

another difference i see is that it seems the 2 groups are much more entrenched in their views than all these fragmented groups of fans seemed to have been. also interesting: all these SN fans who would normally only go to SN solo shows and hate FM ones now all of the sudden being the staunchest defenders of FM. :laugh:

Yes the recent developments with the band have certainly shaken everything up, including discussions on this board. Its definitely more heated in here lately, with more people posting and some aligning their views with others that they don't normally agree with.

It actually amazes me that this band can generate so much conversation between fans, and we never seem to run out of things to say about them 24 hours/day, every day of the year :laugh:

Oh my God, Elle....
Are you a lawyer? Seriously. If not, were you at least the Champion of the Debate Club in high school? You've got some serious skills, and I mean that. I may not agree with all of your posts, but I wanted to tell you that I appreciate your writing and debating skills. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
You go girl!

Jamie

:laugh: :xoxo: :wavey:

i made a serious omission in that list - and i'm waiting to get some beating from Christine fans - they were usually pretty neutral in the past - or just different CM fans were divided pro or against different groups. and now they are coming strongly with that big group of "mostly LB + BN + FM5 + disappointed SN fans" - and against their favorite. so should have been "mostly LB + BN + FM5 + CM + disappointed SN fans"

i'm sure they'll correct me if / where i'm wrong! :xoxo:

also no idea whether there are any Mick fans and how they feel right now :lol:.

John fans?

Does anybody out there actually like Mick? There have been so many bad stories about him and his character- I't had gotten to the stage where I was lukewarm about him but generally gave him the benefit of the doubt. Now I think he's just a bit of a grubby old saddo.

I like his sense of style.

I doubt that he's a bad person, but he's just really, really shameless and blatant when it comes to money. I doubt that he'll ever move an inch unless he can make a buck off of it and I have no doubt in my mind he will take advantage of/exploit (however you want to put it) the Fleetwood Mac name for money until his dying day. I don't think his "the band must play on" mentality is about Fleetwood Mac in itself, more just about the money he gets from Fleetwood Mac.

Sheeeebus.
 

I don't think he's intentionally bad, but boy, is he horrible with money and making decisions. :eek:

Seriously, it's like he gets a buck and immediately spends it. It's called a savings account, Mick. *clap*Look*clap*into*clap*it!

He gives me the creeps and is the kinda guy I would not want to be stuck in an elevator with

:nod::nod::nod:

As well, he strikes me as egotistical, greedy, I have a doubt if he has a philanthropic bone in his body, but I am not sure about that so if someone can prove me wrong on that, that would be delightful.

He just strikes me as such a prime example of:

"Me, me ME and I don't give a holy hoopla about whether the poor and weak and downtrodden die in the mud, as long as I can have my luxury automobiles and ALL the niceties and luxuries money can buy."

Just the sort of vibe I get regarding Mick Fleetwood, and the sort of person I cannot abide.

But I'd really like to be proven wrong though. The world needs all the philanthropists it can get.

Well, regarding Mick, I have to say that he was VERY gracious when I proposed to my wife in front of him, on stage, before a show. He even had his people take extra photos of all 3 of us, and kind of had me re-enact the whole thing to get good ones. He later told Stevie about it too. So naturally I have a soft spot for Mick, but I can also see that he can be a ruthless business man.

Jamie

I hope this is on topic because Lord knows everyone will shoot me down to hell if it's not.
When do you think Lindsey will make a statement? Or will he remain silent?
And will the new Fleetwood Mac have any new songs to tour with?
I think the biggest driver of new music was Lindsey and now he's gone.
But I'm not going to sit here and pretend like so many Lindsey fans do that he did absolutely nothing wrong. People like Elle even concede that Lindsey wanted to try fitting in his solo shows in between Mac dates. You just can't do that. You're either fully committed to your band or you're not. You can't have it both ways. He should do his solo tour before or after the Fleetwood Mac tour. That's what he always used to do. It's what Stevie does. It's what Mick and his blues band do. It's what Christine did when she toured her 1984 album. Why should Lindsey be the exception?

If you think Stevie has never let her solo career get in the way of Fleetwood Mac I don't know what to tell you. When they were recording Tango in the Night, she flew off to Australia to go sing with Tom Petty. They all wanted to start working on an album right after The Dance (understandably, as that would've been the smartest move to capitalize off the success of The Dance) but Stevie was busy with Trouble in Shangri-La and so that album didn't happen till nearly 6 years later, and it had to be yet another case of Lindsey giving his solo album for it. And then after Unleashed, they were supposed to go on the road in 2011, but Mick agreed to give Stevie and Lindsey that year for their solo projects and then they'd go back on the road in 2012. Lindsey took the year and was ready for FM as scheduled but Stevie did not stop and delayed them yet another year.

And then the most recent example of the friggin band having to shelve what was obviously going to be a Fleetwood Mac album and go forward with releasing as Buckingham McVie because Stevie refused to have any involvement. That right there most likely guarantees Say You Will as the last FM studio album and Tango in the Night as the last "Rumours-era" studio album.

I ran into him by accident in Bristol Farms grocery store here in LA. He was set up in a little table hawking his wine. If there were 2 people there that was a lot. It was EMBARRASSING. I went up to him bought a bottle of wine and told him I was a big fan an I would be happy to try his wine. The man was a DOUCHEBAG. End of story. BTW I'm not a excited fan stalker. I live in LA and see tons of celebrities so it wasn't like I was making him uncomfortable. D BAG.

after Unleashed they were supposed to go in the studio. Lindsey was talking about it at Unleashed shows, there are many videos. but Stevie put her solo first yet again, and went to record IYD. the band - again - had to adjust. Lindsey was talking about it during Seeds solo shows - he had a speech about never planning to do a solo album that he was supposed to work with FM but the time "opened up" so he made Seeds in 2010 and toured it in 2011. then they were supposed to work as FM in 2012, but again SN refused and that's when Mick's Playboy interview happened, proclaiming Mac being dead because Stevie yet again delayed anything to do with Mac.

Stevie was too busy opening for Rod Stewart in 2011... :rolleyes:

You have some good points I will admit. But you're arguing that Lindsey always does for the band what they expect of him, which can't be true. If he did exactly what the band asked of him like you're saying, then there is no way they would have sacked him. Does anyone honestly believe that Lindsey wasn't Mick and John's and Christine's first choice? I'll concede Stevie might have wanted Mike more than Lindsey but everyone else in the band wanted to try and make it work with Lindsey but they had irreconcilable differences. Anyone who thinks they fired Lindsey flippantly or that they didn't want to try to make it work with lindsey is kidding themselves. This decision was a last resort.
I still say I would have preferred they did not replace him. Or maybe bring Mike in but not Neil. The Chris and Stevie show would have been something new and daring instead of playing it safe. And if they didn't replace Lindsey, he would be more likely to come back on any other tour in the future because he would not feel betrayed like He probably does now.

I'm not saying Lindsey has always been some perfect little obedient angel who does whatever the band wants of him. I'm sure that whatever he was insistent about (which was the two tours, not the delay) was probably an annoying request to have to plan around and why couldn't he just have waited until after. It's my belief that they fired Lindsey because after that (and a lot of other things influencing it), Stevie decided she didn't want to put up with their difficult relationship anymore and insisted on it, through an ultimatum or some other means. I'm sure the other members would have wanted to work it out but Stevie didn't, not anymore, and because she's THE money-maker for the band, it happened.
But my main point here is that this just isn't fair. I don't doubt Lindsey could be quite difficult in the past and even more recently (i.e. SYW), but he's always done the work. He put a lot of effort into this band and aside from backing out of the Tango tour because he was going nuts, he's never really let the band down in that regard. Stevie on the other hand, has, several times, not given her all to the band or has totally blown them off. It's not right that Stevie's allowed to do that and come back whenever she wants, but others can't.

How was he a douchebag? I mean, if there were like 2 people there (and you so that's 3) you would think he'd be nice and glad you came, right?

maybe Mick was embarrassed and in bad mood since he was wasting his time sitting there trying to sell wine but nobody was coming around and buying? obviously no reason to be a douchebag, why not make life nicer for yourself and people who actually do come around, but just trying to think of a possible reason.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Seriously I can’t believe that line was typed by anyone...I mean...REALLY!?

Hey now, you wouldn't laugh at Bob Dylan!:rolleyes: