I think all of this is simpler than we assume
 

I think LB said I’m not touring without new music. And the band (Stevie) said not recording. And it was a simple vote in favor of Stevie. The rest of the reasons and the end of the day are window dressing.

You could be right. Also Stevie can NOT write by herself anymore. She needs someone to do most of the heavy lifting. M. Campbell will do that for her.

Lindsey never said he was not touring, no matter if the music was new or old. We all saw it in that video.

The reason was simple, but it was not the one you’re saying

Well, Lindsey did that for 40 years. But her bloated ego won't allow that anymore.

On premise, I SO want to believe that, but then the interview today...it was beyond awkward. All of them. I feel like if it was cut and dry, the interview would have come across far more genuine. It really didn’t. Now, Mick really did leave the door open, by skirting around the word “fire” (albeit doing it terribly)and so did little crocodile tears. Given this is not a global tour (FM not going to EU???), I don’t think they have any notion this is their farewell....SO who will extend the olive branch to Lindsey, and will he receptive. Honestly I think it would need to be John and go something to the effect, “we suck, we all (you included LB)f’d up. Let’s end this right!”

Yeah, it could be, but Stevie will never allow it. Unless this tour sucks big time. But it won't, so :shrug:

MF said he wouldn’t sign on the dotted line. I think that’s accurate. It was a game of chicken, LB wanted new music. The band didn’t blink, and worked behind his back to move on. The whole “he wanted to make us wait a year” line is a partial truth not because he wanted to avoid a tour, because he wanted to record before agreeing to a tour. In fairness this happened in Jan/Feb and they are waiting 9 months anyway from that point to start the tour. Add in 2 months to write and record and that’s the “year” they reference. Or the “two years” (from the last tour) that Ken C has stated.

At the end of the day I think LB said I’m not going out for a cash grab only tour, and they said “well we are, so see ya”

She who will not be named probably sees it as something more. But I’m not sure the rest do. I think Mic would take LB back in a heartbeat if it equaled more money.

Video...?
 

Admittedly, I'm not as up on this as everyone else seems to be. What video is everyone referencing as proof that Stevie is the evil mastermind behind all this?

To me, the part of the Rolling Stone interview where Stevie says “I just want to be happy the next 10 years of my life” says it all. This was about HER, not the greater good of Fleetwood Mac or it’s fanbase. She was tired of Lindsey’s antangonism and insistence on a new album, so she orchestrated an ultimatum. Only tours from here out- no new albums; take it or leave it (knowing Lindsey would leave it). The rest of the band recorded the Buckingham McVie album; it’s clear as day who refused to participate and got the FM name removed from it. Like others have said, this has all been a high stakes game of chicken. We see who won. The whole band knows what would happen if Stevie were to leave, which is why they ultimately backed her instead.

I'm confused. When did Lindsey say he wanted to do new FM music? Now? When? Because then it's impossible the rest of the band would have said 'no' if they're now talking about doing a new FM album.
Lindsey had given up about doing a new album with the band a long time ago.

If you're talking about his solo album, it was ready. And he could have done his solo tour before the FM tour started.

It's so nice when you don't have to explain the same thing over and over again. So, thank you :xoxo:

That phrase says it all. She practically admitted she was tired of him and wanted him out.

But he gave up on doing a FM album a long time ago.

I'm not so sure. I mentioned before that comments are running for Lindsey about 10-1 on Twitter. The tour may very well suck, and that would be righteous. #IStandwithLindsey

I can’t say I agree with this at all. The EP was Lindsey’s way of trying to get Stevie to dip her toes into the water of recording with him again. He agreed to help with her In Your Dreams solo album. Lindsey spoke for years about recording songs in keys which dovetailed with Stevie’s range. He played the game of chicken when he recorded the Buckingham McVie album with the rest of the band- I suspect he felt that would entice Stevie to join them. Instead it backfired and Stevie most certainly got the FM name yanked from the album. He did years of cash grab tours and mellowed his experimental style on the EP, Buckingham McVie, and his soundtrack songs; all in the hopes of getting into Stevie’s good graces- to no avail.

It is very simple - she said him or me and Moneybags Fleetwood obviously picked the best answer for his wallet. Edit: Yeah, the McVie's went along with this too. They shouldn't come away unscathed in this. They agreed and let this happen.

As for the tour being a bust or sucking, I truly don't think that technically it will suck at all. Fleetwood and the McVie's are excellent musicians and it appears the same backing band will be there to provide the foundation as before. Mike Campbell is an excellent guitar player and will be fine. I don't know Finn's work much but the guy is a professional and will do his parts fine.

But it will lack SOMETHING. In the same way that the 1987-90 bands were missing something. The shows were technically proficient but they lacked a certain chemistry and haven't aged well at all - they sound sterile and routine. I feel this will be more of the same, even though I'd have to say Campbell is a far more dynamic player than Vito ever was. That chemistry was blatantly obvious during The Dance. Something about that fivesome just works. It's all of the history and drama and tension along with the fact that they just create good music together.

yes to all of this.

i think button-lip is talking about present day - he gave up on trying to push for an FM 5 album in 2018. actually he gave up at the end of 2016 when they decided to put it out as BuckVie.

I think the making of the BuckVie album was the beginning of the end. It's my theory that Stevie was pissed that it happened and basically, for lack of better words, wanted 'revenge' against Lindsey for it. So she's already mad at him for that, he's already mad at her for not letting the FM album happen, then he asks to delay the tour, they say no, then he asks to do two tours, they say no (whichever came first), he stands his ground, she gets fed up and decides she wants to be 'happy' the next 10 years of her life so she says 'him or me'.

And I think she's gonna regret it big time.

I do too. Just remember, Stevie herself quit FM following Behind the Mask because “it just wasn’t the same without Lindsey.” Keep in mind, Lindsey’s exit in 1987 was a truly nasty experience for all. She may say she hates fighting with Lindsey, but it’s that friction all the same that I think keeps her fired up and interested. I suspect that’s why Stevie actually ended up ditching Dave Stewart from her solo ventures- the mutual love fest and “yes man” interactions eventually bored her. Just look at how Stevie chased around Tom Petty, too... even though he was often quite dismissive and even rude to her. She thrives on conflict. With the 2 new guitarists, there will be no head butting, elsewise they’ll simply get tossed out of the band.

Hmmm, are you sure you don’t have a source on your own? :xoxo:

Perfectly said :nod:

Actually, maybe the answer is very simple. The Mac wanted to make some money, and Lindsey wasn't ready. Get two seasoned musicians, go out on the road, and let Lindsey relax and do his small machine thing.

An inside publicity stunt to prepare for a MASSIVE FAREWELL YOUR in late 2020/2021 with Lindsey Buckingham BACK in the fold. The Farewell Tour can go on for two years, hitting every market twice. The ticket sales will go through the roof, as people will think this is their only time to see the Rumours lineup again.

Finn and Campbell are nothing more than short term office temps. Moreover, they know it, and they're happy to make some money instead of sitting home doing nothing. Sure, maybe I'm just practicing wishful thinking.

It is some video some fans took that you can not hear very clearly. It is not proof of anything. His conversation with fans is not going to be the same as his conversation with the group.

This has been my read on the situation as well- Lindsey will return for a massive farewell tour in several years. I’m not sure I agree that the whole thing is planned... but I suspect that’s how it will likely end. I tend to believe after dedicating their entire adult lives and legacies to this band, that they’ll want to end it on their own terms, in a respectable way. Going out with replacement guitarists from a potpourri of 1980s bands isn’t how any of the 5 will want the story to end.

Why wasn’t Stevie fired when she wouldn’t make an album with them.

ANSWER: Fleetwood Mac cannot play huge arenas without Stevie. Since Mick and John only earn about 10-15% each of the profits, Mick needs to play huge arenas to make any money.

It's like a car with a flat tire being able to run on a small donut spare tire. Fleetwood Mac can fill large arenas WITHOUT either Christine OR Lindsey--but NOT without Stevie. A Buckingham/McVie/Fleetwood/McVie lineup would only be able to play smaller theaters at best--much like the Buckingham McVie tour playing The Majestic Theater in San Antonio, Texas (seating capacity 2,200). That lineup could also fill theaters of about 6,000.

Lindsey is the only person who really cares about albums. As with most record label contracts, the band doesn't make any money off album sales. The money is in touring. $tevie knows that. Moreover, a new Fleetwood Mac album wouldn't sell over 750,000 units. A far cry from the record sales of yesteryear.

Stevie Nicks - love her or hate her, fills seats.

I am just heartsick over what happened with Lindsey's dismissal. It was the wrong decision for the legacy of this band.

Well, English isn't my first language and I can hear and understand everything Lindsey says.
Weren't you all waiting for Lindsey to say something? So because he was talking with fans it doesn't prove anything? He was caught off-guard so he didn't even have time to think about what to say. Like in some other interview that happened this morning.

So much of her story, her legacy, like it or not is wrapped it him (and him her), she can't let it end on a bad note. She says this herself. "When we are 90 and one of us goes, the other will be there...." The tour won't suck, but it will not be the farewell tour they want to go out with. IMO. Why aren't they in Europe, why aren't they in Australia (who knows, may come later) I do find it interesting they are saving the larger arenas (Forum, NYC) for the end of the tour. We shall see. This group has more lives then Morris the cat...however, what I saw today, was a little bit of disgust with themselves. I am a big believer in...there's one side, the other side, and the truth lies somewhere in the middle. So much isht has been tossed around....let's just get to the middle.

Probably right about the areas, but the Fleetwood Mac brand with 2/3 of its classic lineup singer/songwriters would easily fill larger theaters.

As I’ve said before, Robert Pollard of Guided by Voices is a friend of mine, and the difference in album sales, money offered for shows, and ticket sales is considerably more if he bills it as Guided by Voices compared to Robert Pollard solo or any other moniker he comes up with, regardless of who else is in the band. It doesn’t matter what he does or who is backing him up, it’s how he brands it that‘s the single largest factor in sales.

My point is, as a brand, LBCM was something new, compared to SN, who was actively cultivating her own brand independent of FM since at least 1978. If Mick and John had been on the tour and the album and tour credited to FM, who knows how well the what was LBCM would have faired, especially if they did the co-headline tour with someone like Bonnie Raitt?

I would love Bonnie Raitt as a co headliner. Maybe she could stand in for Stevie if she ever got the boot. That would fill an arena maybe..

Yes, this. She does thrive on conflict. But is so self absorbed and lacks self awareness to realise she lives off having LB in her life....without their chemistry and volitity what does she have in her life at all now?

this makes me want to cry
because you know it's probably 100% accurate :distress:

and it reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally pisses me off we're never going to get another proper FM album (i love love love SYW and it's my fave record) but it needs to be all 5 of them ALL FIVE OF THEM. +ly contributing, not some 1/2 assed effort from Stevie like EP (though i cut her some slack there because of her Mama)

I have no idea about that quote, and she may well have said that, but that's not why she left FM. She's said numerous times (and Mick acknowledged it) that she left FM because he refused to let her put Silver Springs on her greatest hits album.

I remember that quote too. You have to put it in perspective though. In 1990 the Mac was out of steam. BTM was considered a major flop being the first album to not go platinum since the Nicks era. The band could not even get a single to crack the top 20. Christine was tired of touring. Ticket sales were not great for their 1990 tour. I saw them during the Farewell tour in Pittsburgh in November 1990 and there were about 9,000 people there. The entire upper balcony was empty which was embarrassing when lights hit around the arena. Stevie's management advised her to not even partake in Behind the Mask because they thought it would hurt her solo career. Stevie's klonopin problem was becoming very obvious too. So in the context of everything happening, of course Stevie longed for the good ole days of the Mac. During the final performance of the Farewell tour in Oakland CA where Lindsey played Landslide, Stevie is optimistic and says someday hopefully they can play together again. The band carried on without Lindsey but obviously there was something missing. Something very similar to when Christine left.

Exactly, the tension may make them dysfunctional but it also defines their art. Without it...

She can still write and sing about Lindsey even if he's not around. In performance, though... this isn't a solo show. She'll have to find a new way to relate to the other side of the stage. I just hope she doesn't do something feeble like try to sing "Silver Springs" to Neil or go hug Mike Campbell during the "Landslide" guitar solo, as if the men are as interchangeable as Darrin on Bewitched.*



*Or Dumbledore in Harry Potter, in case you don't know who the heck Darrin is.

The SYW set list changed a bit in the early days of the tour, as did OWTS. I would be curious to see how this set list evolves because it’s not resonating with fans. I noticed in the interview yesterday, the rehearsal footage specifically, Christine was practically off the stage in the next room. “If they can’t see me,I am not here”

I feel also that Lindsey wasn't crazy about going out and playing the same old stuff again. He and Chris made and toured with new music in a short amount of time. I find it all a bit odd that Lindsey wouldn't agree to tour. Everyone, fans included knew the Mac was touring in 2018. Lindsey says in the video that he is pushing back his solo album and doing a best of that he would like to tour with in between Mac shows. I don't know why that would bother Mick and Stevie so much. Let him do it. If it's too much, he'll decide to stop. And Chris's remarks in the Rolling Stone interview where she says she was surprised at Lindsey being gone when I think she came back from England? It's almost like this was a Mick/Stevie decision. I just think there is more to the story and I hope Lindsey does an interview to clarify. I'm really torn about the tour. They come to Pittsburgh Nov. 1st, but I just can't get on board with it.

Ego, it all comes down to ego.

Lindsey doing solo dates between Fleetwood Mac dates was never going to fly. It risked pulling people out of Fleetwood Mac seats and into his show instead. It's disheartening to realize Lindsey thought it would be ok with the rest of the group, it goes to show that I think Lindsey's (and I say this lovingly) assessment of how the rest of the band viewed him and his ability to work with them, must of been quite a bit different than reality. He made very respectful comments about Stevie needing to do her 24k tour and even said, "no harm, no foul in needing to do that". I think he was expecting the courtesy to be returned and it was not. In short, I think he was giving them more credit than they deserved.

Promoters were not going to sign off on a tour with Lindsey playing solo within a neighboring market. It would upset their ability to play secondary markets and milk the cash for every last drop. And no matter how small of a percentage his solo dates would have on Fleetwood Mac ticket sales, we all know Mick is going to side with anybody advising him when it comes to anything remotely financial.

Not to mention the whole premise would instantly infuriate Stevie. Her big MO has always been using her solo career to solidify her dedication back to Fleetwood Mac and use it as some sort of backwards guilt trip to claim Fleetwood mac is the sword she always has to fall back on. It was her primary means of leverage within the band and for Lindsey to walk in and somehow suggest do both at the same time....fireworks.

and here's a reminder why this current situation is total bullsh&t:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/n...d-mac-20121205

This article is in Rolling Stone Dec 5, 2012.

As previously reported, Fleetwood Mac will head out on the road next year for a massive world tour. It turns out the tour was originally scheduled for 2012, but Stevie Nicks decided to take an extra year for her own solo trek. The rest of the group decided to make the best of things and use the time to cut a new album, but that ultimately fell apart, too.

Stevie gets to play fast and loose with the rules-- when she wants to keep doing solo stuff, the band needs to adjust. When Lindsey wants to do solo stuff, tough sh&t, you're fired. :shrug:

Another bit:

Interviewer: I spoke with Stevie last week. She said she wanted the band to be gone for three years, because anything less would make the tour seem less special.

Lindsey: There might be a little bit of rationalization to that. We had actually planned to tour last year. We hadn't done any routing yet, but there had been a commitment from everyone, and then it got put off. Stevie had done her album and I had done mine as well. Hers came out a bit later and, to be fair, someone is always causing trouble in the band. She would look at me doing these small, solo things where I nurtured myself and brought that back into the band. I don't think she had one of those experiences, whether it was an album or touring behind an album for a while. She needed to have that experience.

It was fair enough for her to want to extend that until she felt it had been played to her satisfaction. There's no judgment on putting the tour off for a year, but it was a surprise to everyone. We had planned on it for a while, and she had planned on it. But things change, and that's a part of Fleetwood Mac. We're a moving target. We're a group of people who, you could make the argument, don't belong in the same band together. It's the synergy of that that makes it work.


Again, he says the band makes plans, Stevie wants to change them even after we were all planning on it, I played nice and said ok fine.

A big part of the rest of the article is about all the dancing around and cajoling they had to do to try and woo Stevie into recording some stuff (this ended up being the EP) .

Why does the band twist itself into knots trying to please Ms. Nicks far more than anyone else in the band? Ka-ching, ka-ching. And she knows it, and isn't afraid to use it. She'll threaten not to record, or not to tour (the card she played during SYW), threaten to go to the media ("How's it going to look when I go to RS and trash this project?" -- I forget which album she pulled that one on) and on and on and on and on.

Wow. Just wow. I hope some interviewer finds this and grills them about it. Because Stevie fills arenas she can do whatever she wants. But the guy who actually put the most work into the music doesn't so he gets the boot.

If Azoff was the maestro behind this debacle, with mick and Stevie his marionettes, do you think even if the deep recesses of his own mind, is sitting his is office going “Holy F*ck”. Actually that can be said for any of them I guess. I am sure the “band” thought the interview yesterday would have been well received and we can all move on. I mean, flyers showing up in CA???