Lindsey: Rock’s biggest jerk or misunderstood genius?
 

From the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...rstood-genius/

Mark my words. It begins...

And so it begins. Once the dust settles the truth will come out. :nod:

Just to post the whole thing for folks:


Lindsey Buckingham, formerly of Fleetwood Mac: Rock’s biggest jerk or misunderstood genius?

By Travis M. Andrews April 11 at 7:00 AM


It’s rare for Fleetwood Mac — a rock band formed in 1967 — to garner headlines in 2018. Still, the band was in the news not once but twice in as many weeks. Monday’s news that Lindsey Buckingham reportedly has been fired shook the rock community, earning eulogies and angry quips on Twitter.

There’s little question that the iconic band is losing a visionary musician (again) in Buckingham. But during a time when pop culture is reexamining its heroes, it’s important to remember that the guitarist and songwriter’s personal reputation is littered with allegations of controlling, belittling and even abusive behavior.

Rock-and-roll is often steeped in mythology, so, like any stories about the genre, it comes down to whom you choose to believe: the camp that believes he’s a misunderstood genius or the camp that believes he’s rock-and-roll’s premier jerk.

Many of the stories concerning Buckingham come from former romantic partners.

[ Lindsey Buckingham and Fleetwood Mac part ways — again. He was reportedly fired this time. ]

Buckingham and fellow bandmember Stevie Nicks might be the most famous star-crossed lovers since Romeo and Juliet, only their story ends with them playing in the same rock band and singing songs about each other. The dissolution of their years-long relationship added creative fuel to the writing and recording of 1977’s “Rumours,” Fleetwood Mac’s most successful album.

But tension existed between the two long before the breakup. The young lovers released a single, eponymous album as Buckingham Nicks two years before joining Fleetwood Mac. The couple appear nude on the album cover, something Nicks reportedly was highly uncomfortable with.

The studio said it wanted a sexy cover, so Nicks “with her last hundred dollars bought a loose, filmy white blouse that exposed a little skin, figuring that would do it,” according to her biography, “Gold Dust Woman” by Stephen Davis.

It wasn’t sexual enough for the photographer, who asked her to remove it and bare her breasts for the camera. Nicks protested, calling herself prude and saying her family wouldn’t approve of the image.

The photographer pushed, and Buckingham eventually snapped, according to the book.

“Don’t be paranoid,” Buckingham yelled. “Don’t be a [expletive] child. This is art!”

Eventually, feeling “trapped” and “under pressure,” Nicks removed her shirt and bra for the shoot. “She looked like someone else,” Davis wrote. “She also looked tense.”

Nicks felt “mortified” by the cover, particularly when it hit shelves in 1973 and earned the disapproval of her father. She almost quit music at the age of 25.

“From the beginning, Lindsey was very controlling and very possessive,” Nicks said, according to the biography.

Things didn’t improve after their breakup. Buckingham wrote “Go Your Own Way” in 1976 about Nicks, even though Nicks had to help perform the song. The lyrics are full of vitriol, from the bluntly cruel (“Loving you isn’t the right thing to do”) to the character-questioning (“Packing up, shacking up’s all you wanna do”). Nicks was, of course, insulted.

“I very, very much resented him telling the world that ‘packing up, shacking up’ with different men was all I wanted to do,” Nicks told Rolling Stone. “He knew it wasn’t true. It was just an angry thing that he said. Every time those words would come out onstage, I wanted to go over and kill him. He knew it, so he really pushed my buttons through that. It was like, ‘I’ll make you suffer for leaving me.’”


Things grew worse. During a 1980 tour for “Tusk,” Buckingham allegedly mocked Nicks onstage, tried to trip her and, at one point, attempted to kick her. Singer Christine McVie was furious. She found Buckingham after the show and hit him.

“I think he’s the only person I ever, ever slapped,” McVie told Rolling Stone. “I actually might have chucked a glass of wine, too. I just didn’t think it was the way to treat a paying audience. I mean, aside from making a mockery of Stevie like that. Really unprofessional, over the top. Yes, she cried. She cried a lot.”

He later also threw “a Les Paul [guitar] at Nicks’ head during the show,” McVie and Nicks told the magazine.

Buckingham has claimed that he doesn’t remember the incidents.

While that tension only continued growing, both Buckingham and Nicks have said that it fuels their creative output.

“Relations with Lindsey are exactly as they have been since we broke up,” Nicks told Rolling Stone in 1981. “He and I will always be antagonizing to each other, and we will always do things that will irritate each other, and we really know how to push each other’s buttons. We know exactly what to say when we really want to throw a dagger in.”

Much darker and more concerning are the stories Buckingham’s next serious girlfriend, Carol Ann Harris, shared in her tell-all memoir, “Storms: My Life with Lindsey Buckingham and Fleetwood Mac.”

In one, Buckingham, needing to urinate while being driven to a hotel, unzipped his pants and evacuated himself into his boot, “as our driver looked on in horror,” according to the book.

In another, Harris hung out with the band’s crew members only to discover that a jealous Buckingham had ordered them not to talk to her. “And in their eyes I saw a sense of fear that I recognized — fear of Lindsey’s anger. Nobody wanted to be the target of Lindsey’s fury — and this I understood.”

Throughout the book, Buckingham is shown doing mountains of cocaine and verbally and physically abusing Harris, which she described in great detail.

In one instance, she wrote, he “raised his arm and hit me hard enough to knock me off the staircase into the wall.” In another, she wrote, he grabbed a fistful of her hair, got in a car and drove down the driveway, dragging her across the pavement.

Eventually, Harris claimed, a doctor told her that she had to leave Buckingham for her own safety — so she did.

As with any memoir, it’s difficult to assess the validity of these stories. They certainly contrast wildly with a 1984 Rolling Stone profile titled — and this is not a joke — “Lindsey Buckingham, Lonely Guy,” in which Buckingham talked about how much he wanted a “wonderful, sensitive, soul-mate girl.” This was during the “fairly barren” period after his relationships with Nicks and Harris ended.

The profile painted Buckingham as a musical genius who spends most of his time in the studio, trying to “break down preconceptions about what pop music is” and “struggling to be original” — but also as someone who worried “visibly about being the good host.”

Some problematic details cracked through in the piece, though.

Take Buckingham’s comments on Harris: “At first, she was just another conquest.”

And, even though in that very profile, Harris said Buckingham’s solo record about their failed relationship (“Go Insane”) made her “angry” and “sad” and was “upsetting,” the rocker said he doesn’t regret making it.

”I didn’t have too many second thoughts, mainly because it was either that or go to a shrink,” Buckingham told the magazine. ”I know that sounds a little flippant. I think it was something that had to be addressed. People who write things that mean something, usually they’re a little too personal for somebody else. That’s a risk that has to be taken.”

The only thing that is certain is that Fleetwood Mac has always been a pressure cooker.

To wit: Criticism has been levied not just against Buckingham but all the members of the band. Grammy-winning producer Ken Caillat, who worked on “Rumours,” once said in an interview that after the record was released, he and the crew felt like “survivors of the Titanic or something.”

“You feel like you’re family, and you’re not a family. Fleetwood Mac was not generous ‘parents.’ They’re pretty selfish; so many people that were part of the family have since been discarded,” he said, adding, “They’re all so self-centered and egotistical that they don’t think about anyone.”

Buckingham’s recent departure from the band could be for a number of reasons — but it wouldn’t surprise anyone if that pressure cooker finally exploded.

Again.

The Stevie/Lindsey feud is both of them. Stevie was no angel either. I used to think Lindsey was such a jerk for leaving the band hanging in 1987. He really pissed me off. I totally forgive him for that. The crap he put up with during Tango is insane. Lindsey shelved his solo project to pull Mick out of bankruptcy. Mick was buying drugs in his driveway. Stevie was showing up late and drunk. I don't blame him for leaving at all now. I don't understand why so many paint Stevie as some helpless victim. Stevie is a very powerful woman. She has one of the most successful rock singers in the music business. I see Stevie as no victim as I would say Lindsey is jerk. Of course both Stevie and Lindsey are jerks at times. Christine took way more abuse from John and there is no drama between them because they want it that way. Why these 2 can never move on is quite the study. Some would say they never got over the break up which means they are still in love :eek:

The title is an either/or. The article.... Not so much

I believe he has indeed behaved quite badly in the past, and that's on him to deal with.

That said, she stayed in a relationship (working) with him for DECADES after this, and perpetuated romantic images of herself with him both onstage (hugging, kissing, etc) and in publicity photos-- in band photos right up until now she holds his hand, drapes her arm around him, etc.

So why perpetuate closeness with your abuser? He wasn't forcing it. She CHOSE it because it made her money. She had options-- she had a hugely successful solo career that allowed her to never work with him again. Heck, she even sent him her demos when she got stuck and asked him to bail her out. (good example: soldier's angel)

eta: I see this as the beginning of damage control from someone's side.

Ever watch Judge Judy?

You’ll get one partner suing for some reason, and JJ will ask “how long did you stay with this person after the loan before suing them “. The partner will inevitably say 6 months or a year or three years whatever..... JJ will come back with a “then you didn’t really care if you got that money back, and you wouldn’t be suing if you hadn’t broke up.....forget about it”

That’s the way I feel with a lot of these LB stories. Especially Carol Ann “ I still post pictures of Lindsey weekly on Facebook” Harris.

yeah. co-dependence.

The Harris book claims Christine witnessed the car/driveway event. And yet Christine toured behind Buckingham-McVie with this "monster." How can she justify touring with him if he was a monster? I wonder if Christine will eventually be in a spot where she will be pressed as to the "validity" of some of this backlog. How will Christine handle it. She is the one that wrote, (relating to John):

Why not think about times to come?
And not about the things that you've done?
If your life was bad to you
Just think what tomorrow will do


"Yesterday's gone." There was a time when yesterday could be somewhat washed away. But not in this day of the internet: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter.

People are fickle. This drama is not even close to being over. A lot of people could be hurt. I don't relish any of it. I wish none of this happened. Didn't it seem "more better" (sic) when we were all unaware and just listened to the music?

In one word....YES!

Yes but the drama is the music. There is no separating them especially now in the age of Twitter, Instagram, etc. Christine and John are probably thanking their lucky stars that their issues never blew up like this.

Both a musically gifted character and a scary angry abusive jerk. I think the latter is way got him booted from FM. It catches up with you, you know.

How sad that Lindsey's wife and children have to see, hear, and read media speculation as to his character.

Another issue: By all accounts, Lindsey was at the very least controlling and hurtful. But basing an article on two books of questionable merit is pretty awful journalism.

The PR wars have begun again. But this time, given the current cultural climate and a national movement aimed at the correction of the mistreatment of women, this story will get uglier, no matter how true or distorted it is.

Turning this into part of "#metoo is insulting. Stevie and Lindsey have got beyond their issues on this a long time ago.

Christine DEFINITELY witnessed the car/driveway episode....they all did. And when Mick's book came out and mentioned it and Lindsey said he made the whole thing up just to sell books, both Christine AND Stevie wanted to go to the press and say "No....this happened!" (It was Mick, however, who said "No....we know what happened, and that's all that matters.")
That said....a lot of these stories/events took place 30-35 years ago (maybe longer in some cases), when Lindsey clearly had a serious drug and alcohol problem. I really think being married and a dad has changed/mellowed him. Hatchet stories like this are pointless.

People never really get over abuse. Especially if it flares up again years later. Lindsey is no different from other abusers with anger issues, creative genius or not.

Breast by any other name...
 

Stevie's tits, titts, teats, breast etc...story sounds so lame
at this point. I would believe she wanted to keep them
covered up except for the photographic proof we have
from all the years past the Buckingham Nicks cover.

At this point I wish she would keep them covered.

If, in fact, Lindsey is an abuser. There’s no doubt he had anger issues that might even have turned violent. Certainly Stevie’s reactions to him for the last several years point to trauma. But I’m wondering what the contexts are for all of this. I’m guessing Christine wouldn't have toured with him this past year if she saw him continually being abusive towards Stevie. So my guess—whatever that’s worth—is that at worst he was once mentally and possibly occasionally physically abusive to her but has since, through counseling or whatever, grown. But working alongside him must bring up all of those old feelings in her all the time. This is just a guess, obviously.

2 articles in WaPo, 2 days in a row, is that a first for either FM or LB? and the actual article just about Lindsey this time around.

This article cites the Davis bio, which has almost universally bad reviews from anyone who follows Stevie or Fleetwood Mac.
It literally got Stevie's birthday wrong.

Obviously Stevie's body doesn't exist to please you, and is her's to do with as she pleases...but I honestly can't recall another topless photo from Stevie's career, beyond Buckingham Nicks. Is there one?

There was a thread in the Nicks section that
showed way more than the Buckingham Nicks
cover ever did. Even including the outtakes
from that session.

I would respect her (her story) if there wasn't
overwhelming photographic proof that she enjoys
showing her ____ off.

The poor Stevie routine doesn't work on me.

To be clear, any decisions she made later in her career don't retroactively change what she was feeling during the Buckingham Nicks photo shoot.

I haven't been here in a long time but have to say this - there have been too many people who have described this behaviour by Lindsey, with witnesses present as well, for it all to be made up.

He's a brilliant guitar player and musical genius, but he's also been a terrible abuser.

You can't just say a woman deserved to be beaten up just because she was being annoying or difficult. Nothing justifies that sort of behaviour. I can't believe people seem to be suggesting it here? It's the sort of thinking that keeps women trapped for years in dangerous, abusive relationships - because they think 'Oh it was my fault, I set him off...'

He may have calmed down a bit now but can still be prickly at times and people who have experienced abuse can still have 'flashbacks' many years later that are traumatic. Unless you've been through it yourself you don't know how it can screw with your head.

We want to compare this with Christine and John McVie? They had a difficult breakup but I don't think I've ever seen anybody say that he did what Lindsey did.

We probably won't get one more full Mac tour or album. For God's sake it's sad maybe but not the end of the world! At this stage of their lives, they can choose to do what they see fit, with or without FM.

Got to be fair to Stevie and challenge you there...
Stevie has always been relatively modest regarding her body compared to most female performers. Yeah there was a thread showing some cleavage shots (most of them from late 80's/early 90's when she definitely did assentuate her chest) but she's never put her boobies fully on display. She's rarely worn short skirts.

It would be wrong to paint her as somebody who likes to flaunt her body.

That's where I'm at with this. I was shocked at the news (but at the same time...kind of surprised they made it 20 years post The Dance together). I may roll my eyes over the fact that in even in their 70's this band hasn't mellowed enough to just get along...but by the same token they're in their 70's and can --and should be able to- do whatever the heck they want.

I think Stevie lives in a fantasy on stage where the personality Lindsey delivers to Stevie on stage is what makes her happy. She cherishes those moments with him as good times. Off stage I feel is a very different story - that's where their real personalities still come at each other.

They tried their best to contain it in the Destiny Rules documentary but they eventually broke out into a fight...and who knows how many fights off-camera they had together.

I think if Stevie loved him SO much, that she would have ran to him during The Dance era - but knowing that she did not speaks louder than her words. There was a reason she didn't want to go back to him.

Now I don't think Lindsey is a monster but I think the image of what he is based on his past has been portrayed. Some fans feel that this departure is karma coming around full circle from the last time he left.

But will we ever really know the reason? I'm sure Stevie will give a speech about it on every show when she tells them how many shows they've done and how many minutes she talks in it.

I love them all as musicians, but damn.

I posted this in the duplicate thread. If the two threads are ever merged, this post will show up twice, so my apologies if that happens.. but since the threads haven't been merged yet, I though I would go ahead and repost my thoughts here.

------------

I hate that those stories from the Davis book are presented as coming from "her biography" as if Stevie supervised it - more accurately, it's a biography of her. We all know it is full of inaccuracies, third/fourth hand stories and questionable content. However, people will just swallow it all as truth... weak disclaimers located much further down in the article notwithstanding. I give more credence to the Harris book, although it too has its problems.

Lindsey certainly had some major issues. We know of two times he lost control and got physical with Stevie (The Tango fight and Tusk onstage). If it's true he was abusive with Carol Ann (and he was pretty messed up back then on alcohol so it's very possible), then I'm glad she got away from him. However she, and everyone else involved, have obviously forgiven him since they continued to work with him / speak fondly of him for years. As for his other faults outlined in the article, those just seem like typical moody entitled arteest crap.

I think the violent behavior is 30 years behind him now, and these kind of "hit pieces" serve no purpose.

One more thought: If you have to go back decades to find real evidence of Lindsey being a true jerk, that says something in itself. Shall we give him no credit at all for cleaning up his act? That's something the "biggest jerks" don't typically bother to do.

i don't have time to read what everyone has said here right now, but just wanted to chime in - it's definitely interesting to see what the line is on twitter accompanying the actual headline when you click on the link. it basically says - hey we should re-examine this guy who's just been wronged by his band. :rolleyes:

that said, i think he's both, except biggest jerk is way out of line, just like he's not the most misunderstood genius either, not by a mile - but they didn't claim he was. on the other hand, there are tons of way bigger known jerks in rock, he's not even half way up the ladder. someone on facebook said maybe the headline should be changed to something like -

Rock's garden-variety jerk or misunderstood genius? :D

:angel:

And I thought you always had my back.

Stevie might be modest now as age has a way
of doing that to most people. Now she actually
wears too much clothing. Layers and layers.

Back not too long ago it was a different story
and you know it was. I'm not arguing right and
wrong, just that she was always showing her "stuff".

My problem is that I'm tired of her lame old stories.
That day the Buckingham Nicks photos were taken
must have been the only day in the 70's that she
was a prude. Like I said, the pictures of her bare.
And by bare, well you know what I mean.

Nude - Stevie's got a problem with the one who
made her pose. Wasn't she of age?

Drugs - It was the doctors fault. He made her
take them.

Weight gain - Drugs and doctors. Hey wake up!
That was in the late 80's to mid 90's. There are
diets that work. If she'd stick to one.

Writers block - I guess that's Lindsey too. It's
got nothing to due with frying her brain on drugs
(the ones she took on her own).

on and on and on and on and on and on...

It's a dangerous assumption to think it never happened, though. We don't know what happened between them because they have never really talked about it. That's a far cry from "it never happened". We need to be aware of when we are drawing conclusions from facts or when we are making our own assumptions.

Someone also made the statement that Christine wouldn't have worked with Lindsey if she had seen him really abuse Stevie. She saw him really abuse Carol and still worked with him, so.....

We all make the mistake of thinking that everyday life within FM is like everyday life for us. It isn't... like it isn't for most rock stars. Especially during the white-hot famous years, FM got away with a lot of sh$t. If we take the famous quote by our now president (regardless of how we feel about him) he said, when talking about the people who are his fans, that he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Ave (in NYC) and no one would care. Well, that's what being in the biggest band in the world is. You can behave ABOMINABLY and people don't call you out on it. You're famous, you're rich, you can be rude, obnoxious, demanding, waking helpers up at 2 am to go get you a sandwich, demanding the hotel repaint your room pink, punching your girlfriend, demanding the presidential suite, stealing people's spouses, whatever you want and no one calls you out on any of it. Ever.

What I'm saying is when people live with that going on around them everyday for DECADES, it just gets normalized. Things that would shock us and leave us standing with our mouths hanging open don't even get noticed anymore as unusual by them or people around them. Don't be fooled by how people are in interviews etc. That's a PERFORMANCE just like when onstage. Especially certain people in FM who are very, very clever at marketing themselves as a certain persona. As Chris said in RS about Stevie, she's all about herself, and she's made herself a 'brand'. Lindsey similarly markets himself as the misunderstood genius who does everything selflessly for everyone else and still they dump on him. Image management.

I don't know where you've been for the last 40 years. She wore very very short skirts a lot in the late 70s/80s. Ever see her onstage with Bob Welch? Her very skimpy leotard tops and then camisole tops from the late 70s and into the 80s left absolutely NOTHING to the imagination. Why do you think Dave Letterman ran that short clip of her from I Can't Wait over and over and over again, leaning forward and shaking her maracas?? Again, there are the yarns people spin when doing interviews, and then, if you watch carefully, there's what they actually do.

Lindsey the biggest jerk in rock? Hah. He is not even the biggest jerk in Fleetwood Mac.

Kristen's IG post about this - https://www.instagram.com/p/Bhfs0bhA...en-by=kbchrush

kbchrush

Dear Washington Post,
“Rocks biggest jerk or misunderstood genius?”🤔 Neither. Just a great man with a raw deal. But thanks for asking. #istandwithlindsey #teamlindsey @washingtonpost

She doesn't think he's a misunderstood genius?

Huh??? That's a reason that justifies equating them with each other? I think I know which side is really making 'dangerous assumptions'.

During Fleetwood Mac, what Stevie wore was the fashion for young women and she was always wearing something. Unlike in that photo where she was obviously naked with her boyfriend.

I might as well drop this board again though as obviously I'm never going to have the same understanding as the general consensus here. It's useless.

(I still regard Lindsey as a great artist/musician. But I won't let that put me into denial about his problems.)

who equated anything? All I said was you can't say what did or did not happen with the McVies because they've never said much about any of it. :shrug:

who denied Lindsey's problems? I've actually said I believe at some point he got physical with Stevie. :shrug:

Actually, Stevie didn't wear what was in fashion for everyone else.... she *set* the fashion, as she still does today. Designers copy her all the time.

The real issue was whether she was a prude. She's worn outfits that show off her assets, partied with the best of them, and had scores and scores of lovers. That doesn't suggest she's a prude (just a woman with healthy appetites). That's all anyone said-- her words versus her actions.

If you are indeed looking for a board with no differing opinions, this board will make you crazy. :shrug:

That account is not verified. It could be anyone.

+1000. There's no sexism and misogyny here. It doesn't exist I tell you! You're making it up! You're imagining it! Lalalalalalalala.....

No it's not. It's a non issue. You want to talk about people's sexual forays? Let's talk about Lindsey allegedly cavorting with hookers and randoms on the Say You Will Tour. Don't believe me? Read the archives.