Stevie says Mac members get paid the same
 

Rock icon Stevie Nicks believes the fight against sexual misconduct and gender inequality in the entertainment industry is going to require persistence.
"Everybody needs to not let this be a kind of big wave and just go away and say, 'Oh well, you know, it's over and nobody cares anymore,'" Nicks told CNN at the Recording Academy's MusiCares event on Friday. "Everybody has to keep really fighting because otherwise women, we will be swept under the carpet yet again and it will just start over."
Nicks and the other members of Fleetwood Mac were honored at the annual pre-Grammy Awards charity event.
The singer, who joined Fleetwood Mac in 1975, said she and fellow bandmate, Christine McVie, did not experience much sexual harassment over the course of their meteoric careers.

"I think I've been very lucky," she said. "And maybe it's because when I joined Fleetwood Mac, Christine and I made a pact. We said we will never ever be treated like a second class citizen amongst our peers as we get more famous and more famous -- and if we're in a room with famous rock n' roll stars that are men and they treat us that way, we will scream at them and then we'll walk out."

"We've been a force of nature our entire career, so nobody has dared to step over that line to Christine McVie and Stevie Nicks," she continued. "I'm such a raging monster when I'm angry that it would have never worked, so I'm really glad I never had to run into that."
As for the ongoing conversations about pay disparities between men and women in entertainment and across industries, Nicks said she's in full support of those calling for pay equity.
"Fleetwood Mac has two women and we all get paid the same," She said. "And if we didn't, Christine and I would be walking out the door."

This has been debated here before. I think Stevie was trying to relate to the current "me Too" movement in claiming "we all get paid the same."
I think many of us speculated that Stevie gets paid more than other band members when touring. We may never know the truth. But if it is true perhaps Mick, John, and Lindsey can start their own non-twirling "Me Too" movement.

I highly doubt Stevie and Lindsey got the same money when they joined Fleetwood Mac as the rest of the group and I'm sure lawyers made sure that changed when Rumours became a big hit.

They were initially on a $200/week salary with FM, until they decided to make them full members.

Equal pay from Stevie is such B.S.

Until Christine came back, I believe it was fact that their breakdown of pay was:
Stevie 40%
Lindsey 30%
Mick 15%
John 15%

She's so full of it.

"Me too" is about sexual harassment. The pay equality thing has been in the news a lot too with the most recent thing being Mark Wahlberg getting paid something like $1.5 million for re shoots while his co star Michelle Williams got $1800 for the same work.

Curious where this breakdown you're citing came from? Thanks!

Somebody "in the know" posted it back around SYW, and the following tours, before Christine came back.

But pay for what? Public appearances? Tours?

Touring revenue.

I think her point in general was that the women in FM were never paid at discounted rates compared to the men.

Clearly over time various members have leveraged their higher profiles and greater "bankability" to negotiate for more money. Part of the issue in Hollywood is that say, an actress with high visibility and proven track record of selling movie tickets (a la Stevie as a musical performer) still doesn't get the same as a man of equal stature let alone get more than male costars. So FM is a case where everyone has equal opportunity to shine, and if you shine more in the marketplace than others, you leverage that for a higher share. Women in the acting world typically were topping out at whatever people thought was the highest amount a woman should make, rather than being able to negotiate for whatever rate a successful actor should make (regardless of gender). There was an artificial ceiling for actresses regardless of their level of success. Men could go for whatever they felt they deserved and hold out till they got it. Women were supposed to be grateful for whatever they were allowed to make.

Stevie's point, though not well articulated by her, was that the playing field was always level in FM in that everyone had equal opportunity to succeed and then be paid appropriately according to their success. In this she is right.

Except when she was making almost triple what the band's founders were making. Isn't that reverse discrimination on her part?

I guess it's okay in that direction, since she's showing "a man" who's boss? :laugh:

That seems incredibly vague. I'm not sure I could make an argument to bash Stevie for being such a big, bad greedy meanie because "someone in the know" posted it here 15 years ago...JMHO

Yea, stevie nicks should be incredibly proud, she may be the one example of reverse pay discrimination based on how much she brings to the table. Especially with those SYW tour figures. The person on stage the least and contributing the least to the songs when she’s not on lead had a staggeringly disproportionately high piece of the pie.

And yes, 8 get it, the drawing people in factor can not be ignored here. But in just looking at it from the angle of “equal pay for equal work” stevie won that game! She needs to be the face of the me too movements success stories edition!



Now please, no one gtake the above the wrong way, I’m diminishing the importance of the movement, just pointing out hilario A irony.

Yeah, that was why I initially asked. Not putting much stock in this. Could be right, could be wrong, but nobody here knows for a fact either way, so... meh.

I agree. But it was posted here, and your ability to search the threads is as easy as mine. Maybe you have the energy, I don't.

OK Stevie, did you “just” come off of a long tour 3 months ago and now need 2 months in Hawaii? Time for some rest :laugh:

Oh, I'm not doubting that you accurately conveyed info posted here from the SYW era.

I guess the reason I'm not putting stock in the pay breakdown is because it's incredibly easy for any user on this board to make up something like that and quite difficult to come by real numbers. The number of people who knew the payroll statistics for *each* member of the band has to be pretty small. And so, when that info pops up on TL, we're stuck trying to determine the legitimacy of a game of telephone.

Anyway, sorry for any confusion, if there was any! :wavey:

Well I could certainly believe that pay breakdown, couldn't you?

I'm sure she has the most powerful management among them.

Frey and Henley said they were never restarting The Eagles unless they got a higher cut than everybody else...

I don’t know how popular she is in the US cos I don’t live there.
But I do know at The Musicares awards who got the loudest cheer, scream holler etc, etc.
And it was Ms Nicks....so to most folks, she is the most popular...(you don’t have to like her to work that out)
She is a draw...she is a crowd puller...
So maybe your % figures are correct.
She gets paid by results....
So she bends the truth...so what.

As a writer Stevie gets more royalties from album sales, etc. When the Mac hit it big in 1976 I guess the 5 members split touring equally. After Lindsey left in 1987 and Rick and Billy joined, I seriously doubt they were paid the same as Stevie. I bet she negotiated a bigger chunk. When Christine left, I bet she negotiated again.
I hate to think she makes more from touring than Mick because its his band. But I would probably believe its a tradition that has existed since 1987.

it's only discrimination if someone is prevented from even participating in the money pool to start with-- as a lot of the women in hollywood have been.

Once you're allowed in the pool to negotiate what you are worth based on what you bring to the table in terms of ticket/album sales, then it is market-driven, not genitalia-driven.

If Mick wants more money, he needs a better manager who will fight for it against all the other managers fighting to divvy up the pie. Discrimination would be if they said "sorry Mick, you're a man so you can only make X amount no matter what." As it stands, the market has spoken and she drives more sales than he does. Capitalism, baby. (ETA: otherwise, Lindsey should also feel bad for making more than Mick, and I doubt he does, or that anyone would expect him to.)

You might think he should get more coz his name is on the band, and he and his manager should fight for money on that basis. But money talks, and the number of tickets Stevie can sell far outstrips what he can sell. Capitalism.

I don't think Stevie feels the need to rub Mick's nose in her success anyway; Lindsey, on the other hand.... yeah, I think she loves that she outsells him.

Wasn't the breakdown after expenses:
Stevie 35%
Lindsey 35%
Mick 15%
John 15%

Before Christine's return, I thought Stevie and Lindsey were paid the same. Whatever the case, the singer/songwriter headliners SHOULD get paid more because they are filling the seats. Let's face it, without the lead singers, John and Mick would either be the opening act for REO SPEEDWAGON or playing 500-seat clubs. It's been done before-just reference the Bekka Bramlett/Billy Burnett lineup of Fleetwood Mac.

It depends on how you look at it and what you consider equal work. In the corporate world, you are rewarded for landing accounts, bringing in clients, etc., so you might have the same base salary as the person in the office next to you, but factor in bonuses and now you're making something very different. This is how Stevie earns money....by bringing in crowds.

Now, if you look at Lindsey on stage for the entire concert (even needlessly during Mick's interminable drum solo) and always having to do at least one thing (play guitar) or sometimes two (play and sing) while Stevie can leave the stage and never does more than one thing (sing), then Lindsey is putting in more time, "doing more work," and would be deserving of a higher salary from this point of view.

But honestly, the breakdown that David posted (which I'm still not sure is corroborated fact) never bothered me much. The men of FM have extremely limited earning potential away from the band, whereas Stevie can still bring in a tidy sum. For Mick to make a third as much as Stevie is a pretty big win for him. They all benefit financially from Fleetwood Mac, but the guys get bigger "raises" than she does when they all come together.

They made a pact. Sure they did.
We'll scream - and then we'll walk out...
You tell 'em Stevie.

That raging monster needn't be worried about
being sexually harassed now. #tooold4me2care

I agree Lindsey does a lot of work for the band. He is also the Musical Director for Mac tours, and you can be sure he gets a nice salary for that work (arranging songs, working with the additional musicians and singers to work out how they'll play etc You can see that a bit on the DR doc). The percentages someone cited earlier have to do with shares of the gross (tickets). We don't know for sure what they're shares of merchandising(teeshirts etc) they get. And as noted, he gets paid for being Musical Director (as Waddy does when he's MD for Stevie's tours, etc). He also gets a share not only as performer and as songwriter (two different royalties) on their albums but he also gets the Producer royalty and fees....so he made a lot on FM records.

The breakdown of their earnings must be fascinating. I bet it's not so much "salaries" as lump sums, however.

Plus don't feel bad because I bet 15% with her is more than he'd take home if he split 50-50 with he and John without her. I'm sure that's the only reason those figures fly with any of the other members.

I think what Stevie meant was that everyone in the band, regardless of gender, receives equal pay for equal work, not that everyone in the band is paid the same regardless of their individual roles. That is what the Times Up movement is about -- not that men and women are just paid equally, but that they are paid equally for equal work.

Therefore, Lindsey may make more money for producing albums, Stevie, Lindsey and Christine may make more money for writing songs, etc.

Weren't Stevie and Christine tied for third position on the 2015 Forbes list for Highest Paid Female Singers due to Fleetwood Mac's tour that year? I don't know where those numbers come from, but it would imply that no one received more money just for showing up on tour.

^ This. ;)

“Christine and I made a pact …”

:laugh:

Christine never made that kind of pact with Stevie.

I am not being a devil's advocate but I am curious about your statement. What is equal pay vs equal work in Fleetwood Mac. For example, Lindsey plays guitar all night and sings the same amount of songs as Stevie. Why should he get paid less for touring? Mick founded the band and gave both Stevie and Lindsey their big break. He plays the hardest, banging on drums all night. Why should he get paid less than Stevie when touring.
What is considered equal work? To make it even clearer... Stevie would never go there to say her singing is not equal to the other band members. The band would never tell her that she does not play an instrument so she gets paid less. THAT would be and equal work example.
Time's up Stevie ;)

Stevie was talking about touring. Lindsey made the most from Fleetwood Mac because he was a main producer plus writer. Christine and Stevie got songwriters royalties so they made a lot more than Mick or John. When it comes to touring they all make the same.

No one was talking about royalties. There is NO proof what so ever they are paid the same for touring. When the Mac started to splinter do you really believe Stevie was paid the same as Rick and Billy? She knew and her management knew Stevie was a huge draw and she was paid more to tour with the Mac. Look at her interviews where she says her management told her to leave Fleetwood Mac after Lindsey left and don't record with them anymore. She felt obligated to stay in the band because she knew if she left the arenas would be empty. Its just a sad fact unfortunately. After Christine left there was another vacuum. You are kidding yourself if you really believe Stevie split everything equally during the Unleashed and Say You Will tours. Her solo tours yield almost the same numbers.
Back in the old days yes they were probably paid equally for touring but not after all the break ups. This is not unique to the Mac. Most bands that splinter and need to keep or bring back other key members have sweetheart touring deals. Even worse look at Lindsey and Christine's solo tour. It is so sad but reality to see 2/3 of songwriters of the Mac perform and could not fill a small theater while Stevie was selling out arenas. No way her management allows things to be split equally between the 5. However all band members are profiting from this equation so they are not complaining. I don't agree with it but I am not dumb to know what reality is.

^^^^This.

As much as I hate it, it has to be true. OGB doesn't deserve it, but I'm sure she gets it. She's the one who puts the asses in the seats.

Of course there's no accounting for taste.

yes, and putting asses in seats or selling records/cds/downloads whatever *IS* the "work" in a big commercial band. Not all these tasks like who pushes the record button or who strums the guitar or whatever that people are going on about. The big picture is that the job is selling product. The product being sold is either a tour or an album or a book or a movie or whatever. Your job is to come up with the content (the songs in the case of an album, or the show if a tour) and then sell the hell out of it. You don't have to like this definition, but that is what show business is. (I hear you, Lindsey..'but what about the art, the art'.......though even he totally knows this is what 'the business' is all about :nod:).

So 'equal pay for equal work' in this context would mean if any one of them could sell the same amount of seats/albums as the next, they'd all get paid the same. They don't. Doesn't mean they don't put in just as much effort and do just as many, or even more, daily tasks.....it comes down to who sells product. And she does, more than anyone else in the band. That said, Lindsey is in a very solid position to argue for more money because while she is more the public face of the band, and generates more publicity and sells more seats with her higher name recognition, he is the lynchpin of producing the content that they are trying to sell. Mac albums without him didn't do as well as Mac albums with him. He and his management can argue that he is the architect of the sound that made them so successful and why the songs recorded 40 years ago are still selling well and are respected. He's gotten better at marketing himself in this role and telling everyone how everyone else's songs wouldn't be what they are without him.;) That leverages him more money because he can show his efforts directly sell more product.

Chris could as well. I really hope she's getting her fair share. She seems like she doesn't like fighting and discord but I hope her managers go in and fight because she wrote more hits and her presence on the last tours increased ticket sales.

I've never believed that. Stevie's money is primarily earned outside the Mac with songwriting royalties & private (i.e. corporate) concerts or private parties. She knows what she has and is a smart cookie for that. Chris as well. Without her (Stevie), the Mac is really NOT the Mac.......

Isn't she managed by Irving Azoff? That sawed off POS would wrestle a nickel out of his dying grandma's hands.

She gets more than 20%. I guaranf*ckingtee you that she does.

Have you seen her contract??

Didn't think so.....

Happy Ledgeday to me!! 16 years on this great forum (at least under this name) :):) :confused:

I know how leverage works.

When the Eagles reunited, Frey and Henley refused, unless they got a double cut of the pie.

I'll bet... your life... that she gets more than 20%. I'm positive she does. And I can't stand her, so why TF would I be "standing up" for her?