My nit picks for Tusk.
 

Tusk:

I think the Tusk album could have been cut to 11 or 12 songs.

1. I like the live album version of Over & Over better. The Tusk Over & Over should be more like the live album version.

2. The Ledge is okay, sounds like filler to me, could have been cut.

3. Think About Me is good, but Lindsey like hogs all the vocals away from Christine in the second half of the song. It's also too short. It should be at least three minutes.

4. I like Save Me a Place, but I don't like the other low male voice doing backup vocals. The backup vocals should have been Stevie and Christine. Save Me a Place is also too short of a song.

5. The piano on Sara is my favorite thing about the song, but it sounds like it needed tuned or something. The piano track should be tighter and sharper and just slightly more prominent than it already is.

6. I don't really like What Makes You Think You're the One. I know everyone else loves it. I could do without it.

7. I like the live version of Not That Funny better. It doesn't need to be 10 minutes on the album though. I like it when it's more piano prominent like this video on YouTube

http://youtu.be/1Fi3NGwnE3c

I think this video cut out too much guitar though. I like the guitar on Not That Funny, but it seems to overpower the piano when you listen to other live versions. The piano should be less subtle.

8. I guess I just like their 1979-1980 live arrangements better. Same for Sisters of the Moon.

9. I could do without That's Enough for Me

10. Brown Eyes is good but I don't really like the clicking. I would rather have a subtle drum beat. Maybe Mick could have used brushes like he did on Sara.

11. Never Make Me Cry is also too short. It's a great Christine song, but if I had to cut one of hers, it would be this one.

12. I also don't care for I Know I'm Not Wrong.

13. Honey Hi is okay, I love the ending, but the rest of the song is just okay. It needs more to it.

14. Beautiful Child is a beautiful song, but if I had to cut one of Stevie's songs, it would be this one. There is already Sara and Storms.

15. Walk a Thin Line is really good, but it needs Stevie and Christine on it. Like the rest of Lindsey's songs on Tusk.

16. Tusk is okay. I could do without all the extra sound effects and the USC band and have it be more Fleerwood Mac-y.

17. Never forget is also just okay. It needs some more energy. It needs more bass and drums and get rid of the Brown Eyes clicking. The guitar and keyboard need to be more rocky and poppy

To summarize: Stevie's songs were good, but too many slow teary songs. Lindsey needed Christine and Stevie on his songs. Christine's songs were too laid back, they need to be poppier and rockier.

My Tusk track list would be:
(I used the same order and just cut out songs. This is not the order I would have put the songs in. I didn't feel like going through them again.)

1. Over & Over
2. Think About Me
3. Save Me a Place
4. Sara
5. Storms
6. That's All For Everyone
7. Not That Funny
8. Sisters of The Moon
9. Angel
10. Brown eyes
11. Walk a Thin Line
12. Never Forget

(But with all the changes I suggested.)

I haven't read through all your post yet, but for info, they had have the full 6:28 version on the original record release. It is only the original CD release and the 7" single release that feature a shorter version. The 2004 remaster also includes the full verison.

Wow, its hard to nit pick about Tusk but I will force myself.
I love all the songs. The only song I would drop is the Ledge. But I could keep it but place it on the 4th side. Its too early in the mix on side 1 and immediately casts Tusk's quirky side. Although there is nothing quirky about Tusk today. Its held up pretty good. I could not stand to remove any songs due to the creativity on each one.
I was never crazy about the album cover or song Tusk.
My biggest nit pick would have been to release Think About Me as the first single. Its a mainstream rock/pop track that would have been huge. The headline would have been "Fleetwood Mac is back." Even though the single Tusk made the top 10, it confused the masses. I believe Think About Me would have cracked the top 10 if it was the first single. I also believe it would have been a good lead single to promote the album better.
So these are my few nit picks :eek:

Oh I too prefer the live version of Over and Over. But I also prefer the live version of Sisters. If there was a way to make those raw live versions a recording in the studio then I would add that too ;)

I was going with my iTunes. The Sara on Tusk on iTunes is 4:39. My parents won't let me have their Tusk album, they have the original they got in 1979. My dad was a collector back in the day. He's let me take some of his old albums but there's some he won't give up.

Maybe they should have made Rumours 2

I love Tusk and see it as a truly remarkable record. However, my concerns with it are more than mere nitpicks (unlike whatever unreasonable complaint I might have about some aspect of either of the the previous two).

1. The track sequencing is bizarre. That might be part of the point. But it does get in the way of the flow. To start the album with the ultra conventional "Over and Over" and follow it up with music from another planet ("The Ledge") never sits easy with me. I get that Lindsey might have wanted to juxtapose those two worlds--California industry-pop with garage band punk. That's a powerful statement. But it doesn't make for enjoyable back-to-back listening. The result is a fascinating yet frustrating sense of fragmentation.

2. No Christine song on side two is simply wrong. She should have written and performed one in place of "That's all...".

3. Stevie and Christine should be singing harmonies on a number of Lindsey tunes, especially "Save Me a Place" and "Walk a Thin Line." The three harmonies only sound apparent on Christine's songs, and on "Sara" and "Beautiful Child."

4. "Storms" and "Over and Over" give off a strange, echoey vibrato that makes the songs feel chilly when they should feel warm.

I don't know where to start with Tusk. Unlike the previous 2 albums there are plenty of Stevie songs, but she doesn't feature enough in the other songs. I also agree that Lindsey's songs need more Stevie and Christine. IIRC the outtakes of The Ledge, That's Enough For Me and I Know I'm Not Wrong do feature them more which is why I prefer them.

Not that they needed more tracks but I think it's a shame The Dealer didn't make it.

Some of you make some great points. The sequence of songs is pretty random. I think because of the rebel mind of Lindsey Buckingham in 1979 he did this on purpose.

They say Tusk was Lindsey's first solo album where he worked alone on many songs. Yes I would say more group inclusion and harmonies would be better.

I am old enough to have bought Tusk as an album. I had a cheap stereo with cheap needle. Tusk is surely an album for the digital age. Those quiet songs like Storms just get ruined with the scratches and surface sounds on vinyl. I agree that Over and Over and Storms have a chilly effect. That is a great characterization that I agree with.

I would still keep on all the songs. I love Honey Hi and Never Make Me cry even though they are short and sweet. I suppose you could have had a Rumours 2 with dropping The Ledge, Tusk, Not that funny, Storms, Honey Hi, I know Im not wrong, Never Make Me Cry, and That's enough for me. But I cant imagine not ever hearing these songs. Short term yes it would have been a bigger commercial success. But long term Tusk is considered by many including the band members as a crucial album.

Love Tusk and would keep all the songs on there and in the same running order. However;

1) I wish Lindsey had reigned it in and made his songs sound at bit more conventional. As has been said, Christine's and Stevie's voices should have been on his songs.
2) Love the packaging but I hate the pictures with Mick wearing that stupid white hat- Otherwise nice pictures make me want to scream just because of that damned hat.
3) Sisters of the Moon should have been released as the first single. It would have been a big hit had it been the lead song (followed by Think About Me).
4) Indeed, as it was intended as such an epic release they could have pushed the boat out and released non-album songs as singles in support of the album (Beatles-style). Its a shame certain songs were not used.
5) Disappointed Peter Green's contribution to Brown Eyes was barely or completely inaudible.

I haven't listened to Tusk as a whole for ages, so I'll just nitpick what I know (IE, the Stevie songs)

Although I do agree that Christine and Stevie should be on Lindsey's songs more.

The only nitpick I can think of is... as amazing as Sisters Of The Moon is, I wish they'd done more overdubbing like in some of the demos. Like in the "She was dark at the top of the stairs" part in this demo...

I always found the packaging very annoying and felt it was made literally for left handed people. The cover was stupid. After having that gorgeous pic on the cover of Rumours and that awesome White Album cover, for them to waste such a great opportunity was just shameful. There could have been more color photos instead of all the B&W pics.

Tusk was the perfect choice as the lead single though because the world was impatiently waiting to see what FM would follow up the Rumours classics with. Nothing on that album was more grand than the title track to capture the world's attention.

WB waited too long to release SOTM as a single. Because of the backlash FM received, by the time SOTM was put out, the album was long dead unfortunately, in the eyes of the world.

The artwork was a bit crazy. I have not seen the album inserts in many years but wasn't there a photo of Stevie looking like a witch? It just was silly with some of them up on the ceiling in that phony and staged photo session room.
I don't like much of the Tusk photo shoots. The album stuff is cheezy but the video shoot where many photos were taken is pretty bad. Chris and Lindsey are so wasted they cant even look straight.
Fast forward to Mirage.... complete opposite...classy, romantic, artwork. It was the early 80's before the wild 80's of big hair took over :eek:

Did Mirage have photos and stuff in the album packaging?

Each to their own. For me the Tusk artwork was brilliant- epic, even (the ambition of the packaging matching the ambition of a double album).
The ceiling shots in particular were fantastic. The hours I spent pouring over that album cover and all the inner sleeves.

Unfortunately no.
I was referring to the album cover, back and album insert cover.
No album packing but there was a cool photo on the album sleeve of all 5 members almost painted.
I LOVE the shadow silhouette from their HBO Mirage concert. That is my all time favorite group shot. I like the Mirage era because they were not kids anymore and Stevie and Chris were at their beauty peak. No more hippy clothes.

I should not say I dislike all of the Tusk photo shoots. Get this for irony....my current wallpaper on my computer is the photo where Chris is getting choked and Stevie is off to the side singing. Its just funny to me and I appreciate the photo. Although even from the side you can tell Mick is wasted :eek:

This is sacreligious!!! This is Tusk

This is largely because this wasnt intended to be a double album, but actually 2 companion albums released virtually at the same time. There was suppose to be a story between the two. When the record company shot it down they approved a single "double album" release. Which explains partly the sequencing.

All this time i thought Stevie did it when really , really ,really, really high

Lindsey painted that.

Michele

Congratulations! We've just "nitpicked" to death the 2nd best Fleetwood Mac album ever recorded. Moreover, "Tusk" should have a place on The 100 Greatest Albums ever recorded. Many modern day musicians list "Tusk" as an overlooked masterpiece, thus given the record a new place in music history.

"Tusk" was Lindsey flipping the middle finger at the record industry....True renegade rock-n-roll.

http://youtu.be/M_pRYcP7OyY

^ I really like the instrumental arrangement in this outtake of Sara. The piano is the most prominent sound, it doesn't get drowned out by the guitar at some parts like in the final version. My favorite part is the piano when Stevie starts singing "I think I had met my match, he was singing and undoing.... And undoing..." I wish we could hear the piano that much in the final version of Sara. I would also like to point out that the bass is not lost either in this outtake. The bass on Sara is so awesome. It's just the guitar that needs to be more subtle on the final version.

since we're nit picking .... isn't it a Harpsichord not a piano ?

I could be. I always thought she was playing an upright piano when they played it live, so I thought they used a piano to record the song as well.

I had never heard this before.

Are you saying each "single" album was originally differently sequenced? And then, when the label said no to releasing two companion albums they went in an resequenced? I'm confused.

There was a thread discussing Tusk as two albums a few years ago.

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?p=1040674

it's a piano.

Chris talked about them using a grand piano of a particular brand (can't recall now if it was Steinway... not Bosendorfer.....it escapes me now). Onstage she said they placed a metal rod against the strings to give it that unique, almost metallic, sound. You're right, onstage she played an upright, which she also played on Not That Funny.

It bugged me so I found the article where she talks about her set up playing it live with the metal bar: http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.ph...x_v2&id=11&c=2

I haven't been able to find the article where she talks about recording it, but will keep looking.

That's way more then nit picking. Hardly agree with anything you've said except I don't care for That's enough for me.

Yes! I see no reason to de-tusk it. It is what it is. THIS IS TUSK.
Wishing that it was more palatable to one's personal taste or expectations just supports all the confining artistic principles Lindsey was aiming to defy.

It took several decades for the album to achieve its status of lauded distinction and appreciation. Lindsey made the bold move to push the envelope, and it eventually paid off. The album's context has benefited from space of time, and now stands out from the pack for all the right reasons. It's odd, unexpected, indulgent, challenging, unconventional...everything art is meant to be.

But go and think what you want, I know that you have the need.

Lets put things into a little context. The albums appreciation has grown- there's no denying that. I'd still say its far from universally lauded though. There are plenty of people out there that still find a lot to be desired- a spectrum that stems from full 'de-Tusking' as you put it, to little gripes here and there.

I'm still not sure about this. My understanding was Tusk was always supposed to be a single album but they ended up with far too much material and decided they couldnt not use it so opted for a full double album. I've read your mention of Ken Caillat. I wonder if perhaps he personally had an idea at some point- rather than it being a band idea. KC's ideas and Lindsey's ideas were very different.

In the end I'm pretty sure the odd running order was deliberate to make the album uneven- particularly following Over and Over with The Ledge; lull them in with something they are familiar with and then immediately hit them with the new sound.

I've never personally had an issue with the running order- seems okay to me.

This is just a fun thread. I doubt anyone seriously is trying to de-Tusk Tusk or nit pick it to death. Its just another fun conversation about a great album.
With so many songs sometimes they get over looked. I was just listening to Never Forget Tonight last night. What a great song and an excellent way to close the album.

Yes, got to talk about something!

Yeah I said in my original nit pick thread about the white album that I have OCD and I'm too critical. I'm also a perfectionist. We needed some debate around here.

I certainly can't speak on anything beyond what I was told. I was having a convo with KC, I forgot what my specific question was, probably something like "did you go in with the plan to make this a double album" or something similar, and his answer was basically "it wasn't always intended to be a double album" which sparked my interest. He went on to explain the concept of partner albums that were destined to tell two individual stories that would compliment each other.

I didn't press the tracking question (largely because the concept caught me off guard" it was my impression the idea died prior to finalizing the exact number of tracks, so it's possible there was no final track listing concept for partner albums but I'm guessing there was a rough sketch at least. I wonder if ine was to be more "pop" the other "creative leaps" or if it was just to tell a love story some sort of "get together" album and "breakup" album. I wish I had time to grasp how many questions I really had.


EDIT:::: I found word for word the part of my convo that I was looking for. We talked about several things but this line clears up what I mentioned. This Is straight from the horses mouth.

"It was supposed to be 2 single albums that eventully would fit in a custom jacket that both albums would form one picture, but the label chickened out and went w a traditional double album format"

I love the artwork, especially the pictures inside.

Same here.

I also remember when the entire album was played on the radio. The host mentioned to Mick that there was a lot of cardboard.

Tusk was crucial album to keep Lindsey in the band. Lindsey didn't want a Rumours 2.

I remember when the Fleetwood Mac cd was first released (1985?). I couldn't wait to hear Crystal w/o any pops and clicks.

I think Tusk was one of the first mass released albums recorded/mastered digitally. I also sort of remember reading an interview with Lindsey about the Mirage album where they didn't record digitally again because it was too time consuming.

The major radio station in my area at the time played Tusk, Sara and Angel regularly. I think I heard Not That Funny played a couple of times and Farmer's Daughter occasionally. One time when I did call up to request a song (NTF), they did ask me what other songs I liked from the album.

I do remember hearing That's Enough For Me played once and of course the DJ made the snide comment after playing it that he had enough.

Very well stated!

For certain the album is, so to speak, not everyone's cup of tea. That is a large part of its distinction; much like fine art --some get it, some don't. Lindsey's intention was not to placate the masses by replicating what was to be expected. And he succeeded! I understand the yearning to edit the album to make it more traditional and accessible, but that misses the point as to why Tusk is what it is.

With the benefit of space and time, more people have warmed up to the album, recognizing the approach was purely motivated by something more than just universal commercial appeal. It was a daring move, but it allowed new musical avenues to open up.

I admittedly was one of many fans who was initially disappointed and confused about the album, mostly about Lindsey's songs. But that didn't dampen my intrigue, because it had such a unique, albeit, challenging aura. Fast forward from 1979 to now. I see the defiant artistic brilliance of Lindsey challenging the norm. For a band inclined to plays it safe, this was a unique moment in their history.

If Tusk needed to be two discs in order to get five stellar Stevie songs, then so be it.

But I will always have a problem with a Lindsey Buckingham solo album spread out across it. I even read an interview where he basically bragged that "Tusk" essentially contained his first solo album.

And it's a pretty good solo album too But the problem is Lindsey was/is in a "band."

Adding Stevie and Christine harmonies to some of his songs would have helped solve this problem (and likely improved the songs).

It still would have been the California rock equivalent of "Prince & the Revolution" (where the "band" contributions were often limited to Wendy & Lisa's background vocals in the studio). But it might have added cohesion (same goes for Tango). Actually, Lindsey might not be that far removed from Prince in terms of wanting to produce and play songs mostly by himself.

But Tusk is what it is. If you love it all, that's awesome. But to me, it's just not a fully enjoyable listening experience all the way through. Maybe I'm getting too old to appreciate jarring musical numbers like "What Makes You Think You're the One" and "Not That Funny."

I also read an article where Ken Caillat said he took the lead on album sequencing to help it flow better. I actually think "Sara" should have opened the whole damn thing.

And you know what, I can make that happen by constructing my own Tusk playlist. I did the same thing with 24K, whacking that down to 10 or 12 songs, depending on my mood.

There's plenty of great stuff on Tusk to make it your own.

I actually do enjoy listening to Mirage straight through. It's not perfect. But it flows.