Mirage & Tango In The Night (Remastered & Expanded)?
 

I've been asking this question for over ten years now since the reissues of the first three B/N era Fleetwood Mac albums were released back in 2004.

Mirage and (especially) Tango In The Night were very successful albums in the UK at least. I can't see remastered & expanded editions of these albums not selling well.

I did read on another forum a few years back that the original plan back in 2003/04 was to reissue the complete catalogue which is owned by Warner Music Group. This is the albums from 1969's Then Play On to 1995's Time. I'm not sure if this included the Live album from 1980.

I don't know how true this is or where this information was sourced from. If this is true there must have been a reason why they ditched this project and just decided to reissue Fleetwood Mac, Rumours and Tusk.

Tango In The Night has four non-album B-sides, 12" remixes of the singles released off the album, outtake tracks such as Special Kind Of Love, What Has Rock 'n' Roll Ever Done For You?, Joan Of Arc and more... plus demo versions of tracks from the album.

Mirage has one non-album B-side (Cool Water), the extended mix of Gypsy, Blue Monday, Goodbye Angel, If You Were My Love, Make Me A Mask, Teen Beat, Gypsy (Rock Version) and the original recording of Smile At You which was eventually re-recorded for the Say You Will album in 2003.

I've contacted Rhino at [email protected] on various occasions asking this same question and they always come back to me with the same answer, which is:

"We do not have any plans for these releases at present but I will put your request into our suggestion box."

Along comes 2013 and Warner decide to milk the Rumours album by reissuing it yet again! What was the point in that? The live material on CD2 of the 2013 reissue of Rumours would've fitted nicely on a reissue of the Fleetwood Mac Live album from 1980.

Warner/Rhino really need to sort their catalogue out.

What is going on here? Is it the record company, the band themselves or their management who don't want any reissues at the moment? There is so much material from the vaults that should be out there officially by now.

If anyone knows anything about what is happening here please throw some light on it. :distress:

Thanks

P.S. We already have people (not me or anyone I know) compiling their own remastered & expanded editions of Mirage and Tango In The Night...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyuAwML-kHc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRC-A6Isn0o

On this thread last spring has been posted links to the remasters made by Rhino in 2011, hosetd by HDtracks: http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showth...88#post1169688

Thanks, but I already knew about those high resolution releases on HDtracks. They are downloads only and aren't available on any physical format. They also don't contain any extra bonus tracks at all. They don't even come with a digital booklet... just the album front cover. Having said that, I personally think the HDtracks edition of Mirage is superior to the original CD.

I'm talking about proper remastered & expanded editions like they did in 2004 with Fleetwood Mac (1975), Rumours (1977) and Tusk (1979).

I too hope they eventually release the Mirage and Tango in the Night remastered versions on CD, However, not if they are going to use the same mastering technique used on the other Fleetwood Mac remasters.

With these remasters being done in the early 2000’s they were created right at the time when the Loudness Wars were taking full flight.

Now apparently saner heads are starting to prevail in the mastering world and hopefully we have turned the corner from brick-walling and now back to proper remastering.

Case in point, let’s take a look at Hold Me, on the HD Tracks version it has a really nice DR rating of 13, now compared to the “remastered” version on The Very Best of Fleetwood Mac, that one is at a DR value of 7! That is terrible! They have compressed it is such a way that we have lost almost half of the Dynamic Range, what the Heck?!

I’m sorry but remastering to me means more than turning up the volume, compressing the heck out of it so people can listen to it on their iPhones over the sound of a bus, and then slapping on a “Remastered” sticker.

It’s like if Peter Jackson made sure Lord of the Rings looked really good on an iPhone, then worried about the theatrical presentation later.

If done properly I think a 2 CD edition of Mirage and Tango would be wonderful, I just have doubts that the powers that be will take the time to do it that way, judging from their re-re-re-re-releasing of only 1 album I don’t think quality is foremost on their minds.

I also just wanted to mention one last thing in regards to High Resolution music, HD Tracks do not make these downloads, Qobuz, HDTracks, Pono and Acoustic Sounds are all supplied the audio and artwork files from Warner, so if you have issues with the quality of either, the fault lies with Warner not the different download sites you choose to buy from. In previous threads on this issue the low quality artwork was perceived to be indicative of HDTracks not being a legitimate site, this is simply not true. They do with what they are given.

Now, that all being said, it would be so nice to be able to buy a CD and know that you are going to get the best sound possible, jumping through all these different hoops over he past few years trying to suss out what is the best sound quality is becoming tiring and prohibitively expensive. Look, if Steve Hoffman can be still mastering beautifully remastered CD’s there is no reason the rest of the industry can’t do it too. Heck, we have seen it done beautifully with the recent Tom Petty and Bruce Springsteen remasters, both are wonderful and an incredible improvement over the previous versions.

Here is hoping that corner has been turned and we can get some truly wonderful product for our money.

Rant over :)
Enjoy your Weekend Everyone!!!

With CD's quickly going the way of the cassette & VHS tape, I wouldn't place any bets on another expanded CD release coming out. Remastered digital versions with bonus tracks, most likely...but, not anytime soon. Once Fleetwood Mac finally fades into the great Penguin Colony in the sky (as a band, not mortally), we'll probably finally see the complete remastered/bonus track added catalogue update that has been previously "rumoured".

I totally agree. It's unfortunate, but probably true.

The death of CDs is much hyped, but has no impact on reissues. A steady stream of CD and vinyl reissues are released every week. Super-deluxe is all the rage, these days, and every obscure band you've never heard of has had deluxe reissues, box sets and remasters.

Just not Stevie or Fleetwood Mac, who are always waiting to capitalize on some nontangible moment in time where they can maximize sales, which will never come.


http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/

And unfortunately that usually happens after the death or the permanent retirement of an artist or a band.

Which will never cease to amaze me. I mean for goodness sake the whole Buckingham Nicks re-release can only be described as a bloody fiasco at this point.

No DVD/Blu Ray releases in over 10 years? I think the last Fleetwood Mac video was Live in Boston if memory serves.

What are they waiting for? Oh sure we can all drown in Rumours re-releases but is that their only significant release? Is that all there is to their legacy? I think not.

It is vexing to be sure.

Thank you for dispelling the oft cited myth of the pending death of CDs. Also defying the myth is the revival of vinyl records! Despite the convenience of digital media, collectors/people still enjoy/want the physical rendering of their media.

The relationship to the product (including books) is more solid, more enhanced when you are able to hold it, feel it, display it. When you're just listening or reading it on your phone/tablet, you're less connected to it.

It's akin to social media. Even though you can communicate with someone via many different technological methods - nothing beats being in their physical presence.

I wholeheartedly agree. I actually sold my copy of the White Album 2004 remaster, because I was so disappointed with the sound quality. As I recall, it didn't have enough high end and sounded murky and lifeless-- the same with the Tusk remaster. They sounded like "rush jobs" done without much care to preserve the sound quality. These days, when it comes to Fleetwood Mac, I listen to anything but CDs-- if I want digital files, I can listen to vinyl rips or HDtracks downloads, and other than that I can just listen to the original albums on vinyl (or cassette)!

One thing I'd be interested in, if these albums were reissued, is some previously unheard material from the sessions. Given the lack of attention usually paid to Mirage and Tango by the band, I don't see it happening anytime soon. In the current era, there is tons of nostalgia for the 80s and 90s-- so much of the current synth pop is heavily influenced by 80s sounds, it seems like the right time for a reappraisal of Tango in particular.

Yes, but you are applying logic and reasoning to what should be done, if we have learned anything from Fleetwood Mac is those to things seldom impact their releasing decisions. :)

In regards to your comment on the sound of Tusk there is a rumour floating around that the source of the HDTracks release of Tusk is a flat transfer of the aborted DVD-A 5.1 release. If this is the case it is a shame this was never released for that HD version is closest I have ever heard to my 1st LP pressing. Just wonderful quality.

Have a great weekend!

I agree with you WHAT are THEY waiting for all of them??? the group the big wigs who knows but to me the TIME has always been NOW not 10 to 20 yrs from now when no of us will care or the other alternative which is really sad. There is still some sort of fan base now. Really I'll never understand what 'they' are being told or probably if they really care. Either way its just sad. We should have great quality on all the music and DVD items but nothing. No rarities released for there solo works much really (well expect Stevie's 24 K Gold no Lindsay Box set etc). Except little bits here or there. Same for the music --we know there are more Tusk etc outtakes alternates for all there LP/cds but yet we get Rumours for what the 20th time. Talk about milking that cow. OK I know its there 'cash cow' but come on--heck Stevie didn't even release an awesome rarities box set for the 25 or 30 anniversary for Bella Donna with many cds alternates outtakes and a nice DVD set and a rare outtake photo booklet. So much could be done but just isn't and I wouldn't hold my breath either. If I knew how I'd make one up myself but thats not gonna happen --if I had the $$ for it. Oh well, its sad cause there missing the boat to me. Sorry for the rant. :shrug::D

You are correct. Tusk was going to be released on DVD-Audio. They even created a new 5.1 surround sound mix of the album from the original multi-tracks. Lindsey was heavily involved with this project.

In an interview a few years ago he was asked why it hasn't been released. He said that although the project was completed Warner were reluctant to put it out. He didn't give a reason as to why Warner ditched the idea of releasing it.

I'm guessing that it was because the DVD-Audio format was fading fast. It's virtually a redundant format now.

CDs are quickly going the same way as cassettes and VHS video tape? That's news to me.

CD reissues and box sets are being released all the time. In fact, over the last few years it seems that CD re-releases of particular albums and CD box set releases of archive material have increased.

This makes the fact that Mirage and Tango In The Night not having been remastered and expanded yet seem even more odd.

As mentioned by another forum member above... there is a big demand amongst certain music fans to have some sort of physical product when it comes to buying an album rather than just settling for a download.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Yes! I hear Lindsey's Mirage sounds all over the place these days.

I believe strongly that reissues of these albums would sell well, so if the band themselves or Warner are worrying that they won't sell, they shouldn't.

The more people who email Rhino at [email protected] requesting these re-releases the better. Get that suggestion box of theirs overflowing, although it should doing that already. :)

The re-releases are certain to sell well among a world-wide legion of die-hard fans. The albums may not make the charts again, but that isn't the main intention. With minimal expense, the record company will still make a decent margin of profit from a repackaged product.

I suspect these reissues (and their sales numbers) matter little to the band members. They mattered more to them at the time when the albums were initially released.

It would be awesome to have super deluxe editions of Mirage and Tango like they did for Rumours. Outtakes and early cuts and live performances. The only thing I wouldn't like is Lindsey being absent from Tango live versions. He should have done the Tango tour.

The Tango In The Night tour has already been released on DVD, so I doubt they will include this DVD again on a remastered & expanded edition of Tango In The Night (if that ever happens).

On the DVD the live show features Rick Vito and Billy Burnette in place of Lindsey. It was filmed at San Francisco's Cow Palace in December 1987.

I agree that Lindsey should've done that tour. If he wanted to leave Fleetwood Mac at that time he obviously had the right to do so, although he should've done the Tango In The Night tour first and then quit.

Lindsey MIA
 

If you don't quit badgering Lindsey for not being on the Tango tour, we're bound to hear another "survival" speech, isn't that weird?

LOL, you just made Coca-Cola come out of me nose :laugh:

You're my new BFF! I needed that. I was having a miserable night and that post probably wasn't fair, but only a FM friend would get it!

Any time :D

I am doing the meet & greet with Mick in a few weeks time, I am considering asking who decides on these things and if he would like to see those two stellar albums remastered. I'm worried it could just be a wasted question. Any thoughts?:wavey:

Good questions. I've always wanted/wondered why we haven't gotten The Dance in blu-ray widescreen format. It may have something to do with the way they filmed it back in '97... but damn, I'd imagine it could look so much better.

Hi Mylittledemon,

I think the main issues with The Dance not being released in a Widescreen and high resolution format such as Blu Ray, and I am sure someone can correct me if I am wrong, is that it was originally filmed in a standard NTSC video format meaning there is no High Definition Master to transfer to Blu Ray.

Also it was filmed in the 4:3 aspect ratio so that if they wanted to create a Widescreen 16:9 aspect ratio they would have to cut the top and bottom off the image to conform to the widescreen format.

However, that being said would I think would be an interesting alternative is the Live in Boston 2003 DVD.

Now that, to the best of my knowledge, was filmed in High Definition and was also done in the 16:9 widescreen aspect ratio. So that is a really good candidate for Blu Ray.

It also would not have to be spread over 2 DVD’s and theoretically would have a greatly enhanced picture and sound quality, and finally have a proper anamorphic transfer so it is not pillar boxed on widescreen T.V.s as the DVD version is.

It is unfortunate regarding The Dance however, I remember back in 1997 and 1998 I could not go into any electronic store without seeing it displayed on some TV, that was a really fun and exciting time to be a fan. Great memories travelling over the US seeing different shows. Lots of fun. :)

Hmm. Bunch of maroons. What were they thinking? Hell, Scorsese was doing widescreen 20 years earlier when they filmed The Last Waltz. :distress:

I know, right? :)
But remember the Last Waltz was meant to be a theatrical film and The Dance was just for late 90's home video release.

Widescreen TV's in North America at that time still were not the norm, VHS was still around so...

But I agree, maroons, they should have seen it coming, heck even some TV shows started to film in widescreen or at least film protected for widescreen for potential home video release.

Unfortunate but what can ya do?

I just hope they get some of current tour filmed in HD and released on Blu Ray, having all 5 of them back together I can't see this NOT happening.

Yes .Widescreen with film was around for along time like back in the golden age of of Hollywood .Video was in its heyday here in the states when the Dance was taped.

Probably would be too expensive if the concert was filmed in widescreen film instead of videotape.

To bad The Dance was not filmed live in Imax 70 mm film and later transferred to DVD and then to Blueray.

I'm not a fan Stretch-O-Vision when they take a 4.3 movie or TV show and stretch it to 16.9.See to much of that on Youtube.

To my knowledge .Its sad already that nothing has been done with pro shot filming with this current tour.Atlease we have the YT fan footage for keepers for a souvenir from this tour.

I agree.Lindsey should of hang on until the Tango thing was all done.
All of our VHS's are shot including the Showtime aired copies that we self recorded.

The DVD could be remasted to Blueray along with the Mirage show.

Please could you asking him about remastered & expanded versions of the Fleetwood Mac catalogue which is under Warner Music Group?

The albums I'm referring to are all the ones from Then Play On (1969) to Behind The Mask (1990), but excluding Fleetwood Mac (1975), Rumours (1977) and Tusk (1979) as these have already been remastered and expanded.

It would be interesting to hear what he has to say on this subject.

This would depend if The Dance was filmed or recorded to video. If it was filmed they could scan the original negatives to 1080 HD and release it on Blu-ray. This would look a lot better than the standard DVD.

However, by watching The Dance it looks like it was recorded to video. If this is the case it will be impossible to create an HD version. In 1997 they weren't recording shows to video in 1080 HD.

The Rosebud film from 1977 was shot on film, so provided the original negatives still exist they could restore them and then scan them to 1080 HD and release this concert on Blu-ray.

I believe it's only currently available on DVD. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm just amazed that, barring the 35th Ann Edition of Rumours that came out a year late, Warner Brothers hasn't tried to release or re-master anything from the band in the last 11 years. They've gone on three "oldies" tours since then with nothing to promote. Couldn't Warners at least given us physical copies of a re-mastered Mirage or Tango with outtakes, etc? Or maybe even a DVD of all the music videos? Or the Rosebud film on DVD by itself?

I personally would LOVE to own the Rosebud DVD but of course it's only available with the SUPER DELUXE edition of Rumours and I'm (nor any of my closest FMac fans/friends) not going to shell out all that $$$ for that DVD, seeing as how most of us already own both the 2004 re-master and the vinyl.

I believe it to be video tape. Par for the course as
film cost too much.

But a new Blu ray version of all their "video" taped
concerts could show improvement over what we've
seen, if someone cared to take the time to do it right.
But that cost $$$.

For me it would be worth it for the audio alone. A DTS
or Dolby Digital master from the multi-track tapes. I'd
buy it.

I am afraid we're stuck with the 4:3 aspect ratio. And
stretching Stevie is not a good idea.

Is the stereo track on the DVD PCM? Also, does it feature a 5.1 surround sound mix?

If so, PCM (Pulse Code Modulation) is actually superior to Dolby Digital and DTS in terms of audio quality. These are both lossy compression formats. PCM is uncompressed audio (the same as CD audio quality if it's a 16bit/44.1kHz PCM track).

Both Dolby Digital and DTS are usually used for 5.1 soundtracks as they take up less space on a DVD than PCM does. A 5.1 surround sound track in PCM wouldn't fit onto a single DVD. It would however fit onto a Blu-ray disc.

Most music DVDs have a stereo PCM track rather than a Dolby Digital stereo track for this reason.

I believe Blu-ray discs feature lossless audio compression formats for both stereo and surround sound tracks, so a 5.1 surround sound mix should sound better on a Blu-ray release than on a standard DVD release.

Good Evening Andrew,

Now if memory serves on one side of the DVD was a PCM 2 Channel [16bit – 48kHz] track and the other side of the DVD was a AC3 5.1 [48kHz] audio mix but it has been a while since I checked it out so I am sure someone can correct me if I am wrong.

Hope this helps

Have a good night

I agree, the 2013 edition of Rumours was totally unnecessary. They were just cashing in on the Rumours name. Like you said, the Rosebud film could've been released on DVD and Blu-ray separately. I'm quite happy with the 2004 remastered & expanded edition of Rumours.

This live tracks on CD2 of the 2013 Super Deluxe Edition of Rumours were recorded during the Rumours tour, so they would've fitted nicely on to a remastered & expanded version of Fleetwood Mac Live (1980). This album featured live tracks from both the Rumours and Tusk tours.

The sticker on the cover says "Double Sided Disc, Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround,
Backed with PCM Stereo".

It's been so long since I played it, that I couldn't remember the specs.

What I do remember was that it wasn't ever spectacular looking.
I've got it on DVD and laser disc.