LB on his "Mythology" with SN
 

Hitfix Fleetwood Mac's Lindsey Buckingham on his 'mythology' with Stevie Nicks

Read more at http://www.hitfix.com/news/fleetwood...pQM5jfb64XX.99

What is holding up a new album and the latest on Christine McVie

By Melinda Newman Monday, May 13, 2013 2:31 PM

Fleetwood Mac is having tremendous success on its current sold-out tour. The band is playing its classic hits with verve and enthusiasm, plus, since the recent release of 4-song EP, "Extended Play," the quartet has new material to sink its teeth into. Guitarist Lindsey Buckingham spoke to HitFix about the current state of Fleetwood Mac, the delight he takes in his still dynamic connection to Stevie Nicks, the latest on a full album from the band, and if Christine McVie will join her former band mates when they play London in the fall.

I saw the band two weekends ago at Jazz Fest in New Orleans and it seemed like you were on fire. The band was playing in daylight without any of the bells and whistles of an indoor arena show and no one missed them at all.

There’s a lesson there. We’ve all come to feel that we need to rely on the constructions of quite elaborate set design and the backdrop that changes from song to song and, really, this band, because we are a band of musicians and a great singer, we could go up there and with a couple of spotlights prevail probably just as well. It should be about the music first and, of course, with us, it is.

“Extended Play,” a four-song EP with your first new music in 10 years, came out on April 30 and landed in iTunes top 10. How gratifying was it that people were so eager to hear new music?

I haven’t paid too much attention to how things are going with it because, really, Mick [Fleetwood] and John [McVie] and I got together last year and we cut a bunch of tracks and then Stevie came to the table later. Even early on, Mick and John and I felt that the songs that we were doing were some of the best stuff we’d done in quite a while.

I am also happy with what it represents with the subject matter. The dialogues to Stevie that are, miraculously, still going on back and forth between Stevie and myself after all these years, I find that to be quite touching and somewhat surprising— something that neither one of us would have predicted years and years ago that we’d still somehow be driving each other’s motivation from a distance, and so I’m very happy with the way the EP turned out and it’s great to be doing some new things on stage.

You wrote one of the new songs, “Sad Angel,” for Stevie. What was her reaction when she first heard it?


I was not there, but I believe she latched onto it immediately. [When] that song was written, I was trying to reach out to her a little bit... she had a very good experience making her solo album [2011’s “In Your Dreams”] and it took her awhile to kind of sort of ease into the mentality of being in Fleetwood Mac again this time... That was a song to help lure her in a little bit, not that there was an agenda to do that, but it just seemed appropriate to what was going on at the time... “Hello Sad Angel, have you come to fight the war” and “Here we are, we fall to earth together/the crowd calling out for more.” It’s really sort of sweet that all of this is still taking place.

With piano ballad “It Takes Time,” you’re pleading for patience to someone who wants to heal you. What's that about?

I guess the reflection is that I’m actually looking at some of the actions that I’ve taken over the years and maybe judging them more objectively and maybe getting to a point in one’s life where you can look back and say, “Hmmm, maybe I could have done that differently” and acknowledging that much of the motivation that has driven certain creative actions and certain decisions has come from that dialogue that seems to have unfolded in slow motion over a period of many years. We are still somehow on a road of evolvement.


Is that one about Stevie?

I would think so.

It’s not the only relationship you’ve had, so I wasn’t sure.

But, you know, you can slip into these roles and it’s not that the feelings that you have aren’t... it doesn’t mean they are any less authentic. But at this point, to some degree, what Stevie and I have, we’ve played these characters for so long, you know, and it doesn’t threaten anything having to do with my home life, my wife completely understands the dynamic of it. There’s a certain aspect of professionalism to it.

Do you feel that in some way now it’s part of your role to keep playing into this mythology?

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Do you feel that in some way now it’s part of your role to keep playing into this mythology?

Well, it’s a mixed bag. There is the mythology and there is, you could call it, a role, but you know that doesn’t mean we haven’t lived it. If you backtrack all the way back to “Rumours,” when all of this mythology rose up, if you look at the appeal of that album, it went beyond the music. It was, whether people could identify it or not, this idea that under less than ideal circumstances, in fact, under quite emotionally challenging and painful circumstances, that we were able to somehow summon up the strength to rise above that and to sort of follow through on what we needed to do fulfill our destiny, if you want to call it that. And so the subtext of “Rumours” becomes not the soap opera part so much as that it was an act of will and that has continued. Where reality stops and where the role begins, it’s a little fuzzy in there, you know.

So not just for us, but for you two too?

For us too! Yeah, and I think that’s appropriate and I don’t know how it could really be any other way because of how it began, you know.

This is the first tour since 2009. Every time you guys come back together for a tour, you must discover something new about Mick, John and Stevie. What have you discovered about each one of them this time that you didn’t know?

(laughs) Wow... As far as Stevie goes, again, if you go back to that song “It Takes Time” and thinking maybe about times in the past when maybe I could have shown her a little more love or shown her a way to make her process a bit easier. From the first day of rehearsal, I had that in mind to try to do.

I think that difference between Stevie and me right now on this tour: If you go back two tours to 2003, we had just finished doing our last album, “Say You Will,” and I had produced that. And there was a certain, I wouldn’t call it an animosity, but there was a lot of tension between Stevie and me. Some of that polarity clearly played out on stage and, in a way, it made for a very interesting show. When you cut to 2009, that had been kind of neutralized, but there was nothing so tangible between us. And now, it’s sort of swung the other way where there’s more of a connection. There’s more of a mutual acknowledgement of what we’ve been through, an openness to acknowledge it on stage.

With John and Mick, the only thing I’d say about John and Mick on this tour is that they are both personally in, I think, the best places I’ve seen them in a long time and possibly because of that, I have never heard the two of them play better as a rhythm section and, of course, they are one of the great rhythm sections in rock. Consequently, as a band, we are playing about the best I can ever remember us ever playing.

You brought up that there may be a new album, but given the difficulty of getting these four songs together, should the fans not be holding their breath?

What needs to happen now if we are to do a complete album— because I think my portion of the material is not only written and recorded, but probably mostly finished— Stevie needs to come with some new material... She’s not like me, I work alone a lot when I do my solo stuff. It’s like going down to the studio and painting. I’m kind of self sufficient... With Stevie, she will write lyrics and keep them in a file and a lot of times she doesn’t even come up with melodies until later, until someone says, ‘well, you’ve got to come up with something.”

There are two scenarios that could lead to new material for Stevie, some of it would be her coming up with new songs. I have a lot of very raw stuff that has no lyrics yet...and if she wanted to sort of co-write on that level, I would love to look into [that] because we’ve never really done that. That’s an intriguing possibility. But that’s what it’s going to take: for her to bring, in one way or another, some stuff to the table so we have a balanced representation between the two writers.

I’m not overly worried about what we do. Hey, if we don’t do an album, we could always do another EP. That would be another option, so I don’t really know what’s going to happen.

“Extended Play” also features “Miss Fantasy,” a new track with very classic Fleetwood Mac harmonies. How did that come about? ??

That was sort of in a moment when I’d had some interaction with Stevie where I felt like I was tapping into the whole lexicon of memories and of emotional connections going all the way back to before she and I were a couple. She was really much caught up in the world of her solo effort. It was right at the end of that and I felt like it was hard to kind of find her in all of that or that perhaps more accurately, it was harder for her to find me, and the person that she knew and trusted and so you know, “Miss Fantasy,” it may be “you don’t remember me/but I remember you” and that’s really what that’s about.

Any truth to the rumors that Christine McVie, who left after 1997's "The Dance," might get on stage with Fleetwood Mac in London?

We did see Christine. She was in LA [on her way back from Maui]. Mick got her to come over to Maui for awhile... When she was living in LA and finally left the band, it was for a number of reasons. I think she really needed to burn as many bridges as she could. She got a divorce, she sold her house, she sold her publishing, she quit the band, she moved back to England. It was a radical set of things that she did all at once. ??Some of the reasons for that, I don’t exactly grasp, but, you know, what are you going to do?

She is very welcome to come up and do “Don’t Stop,” or whatever she wants to do. We’ll have to wait and see if she’s comfortable. I think it would be wonderful. ??

When the five of you had dinner in LA recently, how long had it been since you had all been together?

The last couple of times we were on tour and we played in London, she came to the shows, but it was very, very fleeting. Probably [not] since she left the band had we actually sat down for several hours and been able to just kind of interact in a more leisurely way. ??

What comes next for you after the tour is over later this year?

If it were up to me, what I would do is go into the studio with Fleetwood Mac and actually finish an album and put out a whole album. Maybe look at stringing not a whole year, but a big chunk of time behind that [to tour] and do something that we have not done in years and years, which is string a few experiences together without these long breaks.

My guess is even if we didn’t do that, there are more places in the States that we have not played yet that we’d probably want to get to after the first of the year after we come back from Australia.


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Really interesting to me that Lindsey brings up the possibility of co-writing with Stevie. I tend to think they'd have done it by now if they ever were going to... but I don't see why Stevie writing/fitting lyrics to one of Lindsey's musical pieces would be any different than doing it with something Mike Campbell sends her. Maybe it can happen.

Also lovely that Lindsey wants to go into the studio when the tour is through. Hopefully the others will want to do the same.

Lindsey says "you know" almost as much as Stevie does.

Oh, so she can do more than Don't Stop? Whatever she wants? Good to know. Thanks, Linds. If I could wager, I think it will be more than just Don't Stop.

Michele

I don't know why he would want to write with her any more than she wants to write with him. Just both write songs with FM in mind that are intended to incorporate the other person's vocals.

Michele

Hey, isn't the 'Dressing Room' version of Wild Heart kind of a co-write between them in that fashion?

Yeah, it would be.

Also, it's funny how Stevie talks about how they have these 3 year intervals that they've found is a good amount of time to be away from each other, but this makes it sound like that's really Stevie who wants those breaks and not Lindsey. I know Lindsey did say that SWS came about because he had free time that he didn't intend on having.

Wow! This is so great to hear! Thanks for sharing! I would LOVE to see those 2 write a song together! If they can manage to sit down and interact with each other long enough to produce a song without killing each other, i will so sooo impressed. They have come a long way, I know they can do it. Put it this way; if she wrote with Dave (Stewart) then why wouldn't she write with Lindsey. In my opinion i think her and Lindsey are just as capable as writing together as her and Dave, i mean they known each other for like EVER. (over 40 years)

The thing is, Stevie wouldn't even have to sit down with him.

If he's already finished the music, he can just send it over to her and she can write something at home (or wherever) without him even being there. That's what she did with all the people she co-wrote with prior to Dave.

This is encouraging. Now we know if Christine only performs Don't Stop, it was completely her choice and all she wanted to give us. I sincerely hope the 15+ years of retirement has inspired her to perhaps do at least one more song, one of hers that the band wouldn't normally do...

That might be an interesting dynamic to see - who/what are they musically when they aren't competing with one another?

I love how he's honest about the dynamic with them and their "mythology"-- they are indeed very aware of the shipper fantasies and blatantly do play to them. That said, he admits that there obviously is that whole history between them and that gets mixed in at times. I recall on an earlier thread folks wondering how all this Stevie shipper talk goes down with his family and clearly he has explained it to Kristen et al as the role he plays onstage and in the media. Truth somewhere in the middle perhaps. Wonder if he or his "people" have read some of the comments on boards like this....

Obviously he's come to see how sh&tty some of his past behavior to Stevie has been and how that would feed her distrust of him even to this day on some level. I respect him for seeing that so clearly and wanting to somehow make amends for that. It would seem Stevie isn't quite sure how much to trust it and is going to take her time before risking getting burned again... she still has her guard up somewhat with him. Totally understandable.

Thanks for posting Michele.

I could see Chris doing a revised encore set...World Turning/You Make Loving Fun/Don't Stop or, remove YMLF and tack Songbird on at the end.

Ideally, she'd play the whole show but I think either the encore appearance or just Don't Stop is more likely.

If she played the whole show, the London audience would be in for a real treat. But unless she rehearsed the songs, I find it pretty unlikely. She would never put herself in a position that is uncomfortable, not being sure about certain songs or how the band is performing them, especially in front of an audience. I also realize though for a performer you get such a drive when it's your song and you have haven't played it in a long time, how it sounds and what it means to you and to the real fans for the band to be doing it. Maybe we'll see You Make Loving Fun or Say You Love Me, that would be amazing. I agree that Don't Stop, however blase it is and how it's nowhere near her best work, is probably most likely. It is nice that Lindsey has left the door open. If I were him, I'd be excited to play some of her songs, since it's welcome change from what I'm playing night after night. I bet it wholly depends on Chris' confidence, as well as her humility (she certainly is not one to take the spotlight away from Stevie and Lindsey, the touring group who the audience has paid to see).

One More Go Of It...
 

It'd be nice to see her play Songbird one more time to close a show. No way I'm going to make a London show (let alone the right one in the end), but I hope she walks back out after Say Goodbye to play some grand piano. I'll live vicariously through YouTube and squeal at home.

Now there's a novel idea! ;)

I wish Stevie was as willing to strike while the iron's hot. They're not getting any younger, and it crushes me to think they might not make the most of their twilight years... :distress:

That's what I'm hoping to see (and record) at the O2 Friday night show.

That was nice, Lindsey, to recognize that Stevie is a great singer.

The thing with Songbird, I don't know if she does it. It would take away from Lindsey's and Stevie's concert for a special guest to close it. How I see it, again: for Christine it all comes down to her confidence level and her humility (she's low key; she's not going to move attention away from the people the audience has paid to see for her).

The reason why I don't see this happening is because she's not in the band and probably would not want to close out their show with a solo performance.

What does "shipper" mean?

I just don't think of her as a special guest. All these years I've been paying to see four FM members, Christine is part of the reason that got me there.

In 1990, Lindsey didn't close the show, because there was an encore (Songbird) but I thought it was a little odd that he got the closing highlight, GYOW with Rick and Billy there. I loved it, but I wondered if they felt a little pushed aside, especially since Mick brought Lindsey out for the last bow and made a big deal out of him. But that was strange because Billy and Rick weren't in the band with Lindsey.

With Lindsey, Christine and Stevie having achieved so much together, I just don't consider her an outsider. She probably won't do Songbird, but if she did, it would seem perfectly natural to me.

Michele

Means people who support the Stevie and Lindsey relationship or any relationship to which the term is applied. Originated with the X-Files. Shippers vs. Noromos (being people who didn't see or didn't want a romantic relationship between Mulder and Scully).

Michele

Different things for different people. But it comes from relationship so in general it means you're a fan of or a supporter of a particular relationship in some capacity.

When we talk about shippers on this site, it's generally regarding Stevie and Lindsey's relationship.

It's nice that he's so open regarding writing about Stevie. Even I had not supposed all three of the new songs on "Extended Play" were about her.

I find the dynamics of their relationship fascinating and I love to discuss it, especially when interpreting lyrics. I also love it when they interact on stage. Their emotional interplay adds even more power to music that's already top notch, and I eat it up. Thus, I guess I am a "shipper" although I never really took to the term.

I thought "shipper" was a short form of "worshipper"

It's always referred to support for specific relationships, as far as I've ever known. It's much more commonly used in book and television fandom. Fleetwood Mac is just so darn special like that. ;)

Go to fanfiction.net comments sections if you want to see it used all the time.

I've actually never much cared about the L/S relationship dynamic. I've sort of taken it as just an interesting piece of trivia, and thought it was too bad that it's always made their collaborations a bit turbulent. The fact that people consider it a "mythology" is fascinating to me.

It would be great if Christine sang more than Don't Stop, but it would undoubtedly be other songs that involved the touring members of the band. Songbird seems unlikely, however lovely it is.

She did 'Get Like You Used To Be' in Maui, so I just wonder if she wouldn't do another song. Part of me thinks, though, that if she does it'll be to join on World Turning! I agree that she won't want to steal their thunder and, I think, she'll be very reluctant to perform on her own, so I'd guess Songbird is unlikely. She is happier behind the keyboards next to Mick and John, hiding under that big blonde fringe of hers ;)

I will be there on the final London night. If she's there and she performs (and she may not - she might jump in on nights one or two) I may die. :]

ps. "Some of the reasons for that, I don’t exactly grasp, but, you know, what are you going to do?" - Again with this line. What is it that went on? My opinion is that there must be something here, as he is repeatedly using this 'I don't get it' line for some of her reasons for getting the hell out of Dodge.

How do you know he meant her and not himself? When I read that line I really had to do a double take. This was the sentence that stood out for comments as far as I was concerned. Is he saying that Stevie is not a musician and just a great singer? Is he implying that they are all musicians and in addition FM and the fans are lucky because he is a great singer as well as guitar player? I ask this because it is Stevie's voice that often gets critiqued in the live setting. No one ever says that Lindsey had trouble with his vocal chords or sang off key in concert or can't hit the high notes any longer.

Yes. Well, minus the word "just", I'm pretty sure that's what he means. He, Mick, and John all identify primarily as musicians, whereas Stevie doesn't and isn't one. He extended "great singer" to include her in his overall statement.

I agree with your comment that Stevie gets the brunt of vocal criticism when both of them clearly don't sing like they used to (though I still enjoy both very much). It's never seemed entirely fair to me.

I think it's more that he's talking about how good the band is live. In that context, Stevie only contributes as a singer.

Yes, that's what I mean too. :) I just thought it was clear that the "great singer" reference was referring to Stevie.

Besides the "great singer" comment, which I thought was for Stevie (and good points about how Lindsey's voice has changed too), I thought this one was an interesting comment of his. Speaking about Christine's move: "Some of the reasons for that, I don't exactly grasp, but, you know, what are you going to do?" I think something must be there, too...I still think the band hasn't ever given the full story of what went on publicly. They still always go back to the same Rumours relationships breaking up talk, but haven't really gotten into what their relationships were like in 1997, for instance. I'm not sure if we'll ever get the truth. But there's certainly the Grammy story and the theory behind Thrown Down that Lindsey and Stevie had rekindled their relationship in an affair when Lindsey found out his girlfriend was pregnant. Who knows what Christine went through for The Dance and the tour? Maybe there were some fights. Maybe she was sick of the band's antics, just dealing with everyone (like in the only interview the five of them did together for The Dance) or was upset with how her facelift made her look on the video?

Perverse to think he didn't mean Stevie when he said 'great singer'. Of course he meant her.

What happens in reviews is that Lindsey gets reviewed as a guitarist and Stevie gets reviewed as a singer. Lindsey's guitar-playing is as good as it's ever been (which is to say, pretty good) and Stevie's voice is different to what it was on Rumours. Some people like that difference, some people don't.

If Lindsey was reviewed as a singer, I doubt he'd fare so well.

No. If it was, you would have people "shipping" singular people. But you don't, because it's a derivative of relationship.

Well, I say that. :lol:

I think that there was some sort of falling out. I also think that Stevie's story about the Grammys is an indicator of what might have gone on. I know that some Lindsey fans take great offence at the suggestion because they see it as yet another unwarranted attack on him, but hey ho.

For what it's worth, I think that Christine probably had enough of all of the intra-band fighting and politics and Lindsey might have borne the brunt of that around the time of the Grammys. I don't think her facial appearance on the Dance had anything to do with it; she looked stunning.

Whatever the problem was I agree that we have never been given the whole story about the breakup post-Dance. Lindsey's comments above, plus his comments around the time of SYW, make me think that something went awry between them. It's only now, some fifteen years later, that he is being a little more generous towards her.

It's interesting, too, that he says the LA dinner was the first time they'd all had since The Dance to relax in each other's company. I have said this on another thread (and was shot down!) -- he chose not to join the other three to dine with Christine in 2003 in London. I remember reading it at the time and thinking it was odd.

Anyway, I simply ask this: what is there not to 'grasp' about someone experiencing panic attacks, stage fright, fear of flying, homesickness, general tedium with the music business and relationship problems?

and don't forget "burning bridges"... again....

but of course Lindsey must be to blame! :lol::lol:

evidence is overwhelming as in every other case he is to blame, just look at the partial list:

• Lindsey is responsible for Stevie wearing granny sweater during SYW because he didn't want her showing her boobs. (what?? the woman as emancipated as SN would listen to her ex about what to wear?? because what woman wouldn't?? :laugh:)
  
• Lindsey is responsible for Bob Welch not being inducted in the R'n'R Hall of Fame (what?? Wendy Welch says he's not? :shrug:)
  
• Lindsey has to be responsible for Christine leaving FM (that one is completely obvious - he talks about burned bridges. although now he is talking about always having a great connection with her, and having so much fun reconnecting at that dinner in LA... hmm :confused:)

Yeah. Maybe he just says that exceptionally irritating "for reasons I can't grasp" line, like she is some sort of irrational being, to piss Christine fans off.

But then from reading what others have said about Lindsey, it is possible that he has not always been very empathetic towards the circumstances of others, and perhaps that's still the case. He just doesn't get whatever Christine's issues were.

Anyway, as I said, 15 years on and time may well have cooled things down. Something went on during or after The Dance tour IMO.

but of course, that's all he thinks about - how to piss off CM fans! ;)

personally, i think burning bridges line is much more irritating than "i can't grasp".

i can't grasp can mean something like "i personally am too stupid to understand":p or "that's not how i think", but it doesn't say "i want to piss off CM fans". jmo :shrug: