Question about the live albums
 

Does anyone know if there were fixes, overdubs, etc. made to the recordings of the FM live albums in the studio before they were released?
If so, has anyone got further information?


I was listening to the live performance of Stand Back from The Chain box set and somehow it doesn't sound very live to me, especially the vocals. When you watch the Tango In The Night DVD it seems even more staged, with all those close-ups of Stevie, which I can't believe were really filmed at the concert itself...

It's quite a well known fact that, at Stevie's insistence, most (if not all) of her TINT live vocals were over-dubbed, and her close-up's all reshot and edited in later. This is something that started with her Red Rocks live video as she was such a mess on stage due to being coked up that her close-up's HAD to be reshot. I'm not sure what made her reshoot her close ups for TINT. Probably because most of her facial expressions during this time looked like she was thinking "I DO NOT WANT TO BE HERE!".

Prior to this, I think the live recordings (live footage for the Tusk and Mirage videos, the Live (1980) album and Stevie's HBO special) had very little studio touch ups. It was only in the mid-late 80's that over-dubbing and reshooting became popular

I'm pretty sure The Dance was *heavily* sweetened in the studio.

Because "The Dance" was filmed at Warner Studios, I don't think it would've taken that much tweeking. Something like "Live In Boston" or the TINT video would've had more touch ups as they were just filmed at a standard concert venue, not one that is specifically set up for filming.

The 1982 Mirage Tour special was edited slightly, though not overdubbed, just very lazily edited. Sisters of the Moon was spliced together from two seperate shows. You can see Lindsey's shirt strangely opens mid song. Also Eyes of the World was edited so that the 1st chorus and the 2nd chorus are actually one and the same.

The Dance needed a lot doing to it. If you look at articles around that time, Lindsey spent quite a lot of time in the studio on it. There was a fair bit of augmentation and re-recording of instruments and vocals. When Live in Boston came out, I remember him remarking that it would be far more raw than The Dance, which was intentionally very polished.

and Stevie's hair keeps changing in Blue Letter....:nod: LOL

This is no surprise. the Dance was also touted on the radio as a forthcoming album of "re-recorded classics" before it actually happened....and we got a live album, so I think recording the live show and polishing everything in the studio was the intent all along.

In a word....YES.

It's pretty much an industry standard that "Live" albums are "sweetened" in post-production.

Dave Mason's Certified Live was one of the first ones that "outted" the practice back in the late '70s. That was opening a can o' worms...pretty much every live album that had been released in the prior few years (and there were a whole lot of them at the time...that's the "era of the double live album") was then looked at (& listened to) with jaded eyes/ears...everything from Frampton Comes Alive onward was questioned as to its "authenticity" of "live-ness".

Thanks for all your replies!!!!

I'd be really interested to see / hear the original recordings of Stevie at the TITN show... I guess I will now listen to some bootlegs of that tour to hear if her voice was really that bad during this period :D

Concerning The Dance, I'd never suspected they cleaned it up in the studio that much as some of you say. To me it doesn't sound very polished... but then again neither does Stevie's HBO concert - but I found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SgJgVqI0ZY

I'm totally ok with editing live stuff, for example splicing two versions together to get the best performance. But I think I'm a bit sensitive to additional overdubs and rerecorded vocals. That's not live anymore at all.
It's probably because I'm also an Elvis Presley fan and all his live recordings that feature additional overdubs sound rather strange to me. His live albums were overdubbed as early as 1969, btw. So I guess it was common to do it even then. With so many EP collectors' releases available it's an easy thing to compare the originally recorded versions with their overdubbed counterparts, btw.
It would be great if we were able to do that for The Dance!

From everything I've heard, her voice wasn't too bad. Certainly better than her Rock A Little tour vocals. But she sounded quite flat a lot of the time. Mind you, I guess she was feeling pretty flat due to the klonopin.

Really? The first time I heard The Dance, it sounded so fake. I remember saying to my brother "This sounds so wimpy.... this band didn't use to sound like this, and I have bootlegs to prove it". Then later when I was at the Hartford show (the first Dance show), they sounded so different than the Dance CD, so much more raw and edgey; it was so obvious after going to more shows just how "unlive" (dead?) that "The Dance" sounds.

yup they tinkered with The Dance for months after recording it. the guy who was producing it with Lindsey described that when they were presenting Lindsey with Les Paul or whatever was one of the other awards he was given about a year ago.

compare that to the most recent Lindsey's One Man Show release that was put out within a month or so of the actual show, while LB was still on the same tour.

Thanks for posting this link! To me Edge of 17 had some of the most obvious tweaks/overdubs of that whole concert, so it was fun to hear what the original sounded like.

Man, this is so sad! But well, you can see it: Stevie is moving all the time, so her voice could change with some moves.

Sometimes I really don't know why they make those changes. I know sometimes the artists ask for it, but sometimes, with its "original" sound, a live version can be good too!
About The Dance, well, I listened to some radio broadcast (that included other songs that wer not released on the CD), but I couldn't hear any vocal change.

Well, it doesn't take much tweaking when you're playing along to pre-recorded backing tracks. I was going to see him, but then I caught a live show on TV. If he had taken the Richard Thompson approach to an one man show (literally just a man and a guitar), I may have been interested.

what live show on tv? One Man Show was never on tv. it's not a DVD, or CD, just itunes download.

yeah he took his own unique approach with great results. but why do that when he could have done the same as everyone else touring solo acoustically these days, right? :p :rolleyes:

people's reaction and non-opened mind to Lindsey's One Man Show approach, without ever seeing or hearing it, has amazed me for a while now. at least you are not primarily a LB fan so i can understand your skepticism. :shrug:

For most of the songs, he did. The only songs he used backing tracks for (if I recall correctly, anyway) were Stephanie and the electric songs like Come, I'm So Afraid, and GYOW.

Unless I'm having a memory lapse and he used them on all of them... I felt like the others were all just him and the acoustic.

you are not having a memory lapse - just those 4.

why would he need a pre-recorded backing track for Stephanie??

According to peter criss the only thing live on KISS alive were the drums and Paul Stanles rsps everything else was done in the studio

idk. guess he wanted a bit layered guitar sound?

there is a thread with tons of live versions here http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showth...ight=stephanie so you can draw your own conclusions. :shrug:

According to peter criss the only thing live on KISS alive were the drums and Paul Stanley'
s raps everything else was done in the studio

According to peter criss the only thing live on KISS alive were the drums and Paul Stanley'
s raps everything else was done in the studio it's so horrible they had to rerecord everything

My bad. It was the show they play on Palladia (which I had to turn off when the canned backing vocals for "Down On Rodeo" came on). However, I have seen YouTube clips from the One Man shows.

I would hardly call using canned backing music and vocals a "unique approach". At best, it's glorified karaoke. Now, Lindsey USED to be great at completely rearranging his songs and turning them into something unique, like "Big Love" and "Go Insane".

Find me somebody who can do what Richard Thompson does, and we'll talk.

No, but I am a guitarist, and I work for an legendary indie rock band. The perfection that Fleetwood Mac seeks only makes them less relevant.

He doesn't need it. He likes it, for the reason Elle mentioned. That's not a surprise. He likes his songs, even live, to sound just the way he likes them to sound. I, for one, am happy with the results. Stephanie sounded awesome, and the electric stuff with the backing tracks were incredible. I was wondering how they'd sound, when I heard about him doing that, but I liked the effect. Obviously people have different tastes, so it's not for everyone, but Lindsey's mentioned that too. That his music isn't for the masses, but rather for those who get it. I'm glad I get it :D

I'm glad I get it too, because OMS ISA is amazing and I don't want to hear it with a band anymore. That backing track is sublime.

lol. they've been playing Songs From The Small Machine Live In LA regularly on Palladia. even as a non-guitarist who doesn't work for any legendary band i can see there are 4 people on stage there, not one man and a guitar. :shrug: :angel:

and also, even as a non-guitarist i can hear there's no Rodeo there. ;)

but maybe you are talking about Soundstage from 2004? you can check the discussion in this thread http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=51232 to learn about LB's different live albums and the range of opinions people have about them. please feel free to jump in there (if you ever consider worthy taking some of your precious time to take a listen to any of them ;) ).

there are some youtube clips of non-rehearsed acoustic versions of Down on Rodeo from last 3 tours without anything canned or pre-recorded. i think it's gorgeous but we all do enjoy different things. :)

Those are two different things, though. I like his music and consider him one of the great guitarists AND I want a completely live show. I'd gladly pay to see him if he didn't use pre-recorded backing tracks or have a bunch of psychobabble for stage bantar. It kind of kills me that he's taking this route for his live shows.

Only 4 songs out of 13 had a backing track. And I think the only one with vocals was GYOW. You didn't even see one show so I'm not sure how you can come to the conclusion it was so awful.

i'll say to you what i said to everybody that kept giving the same spiel you are now before they actually experienced OMS - those are assumptions, and unless you experienced in person either one of the OMS shows or listened to OMS recording, i can't take your opinion on this as relevant. i have heard too many people saying very similar things as you are saying now and doing 180 when they actually saw the show.

now when people have heard the show and tell me they didn't like it, i respect their opinion. not everyone will like it - of course.

i don't understand how someone can say "i consider him one of the greatest guitarists" and not willing to hear live what he came up with before offering half-informed opinions and criticisms. but you are not the only one. :shrug:

This One Man Show is my least favorite tour of his. Since I wouldn't mind a purely acoustic show myself your suggestion is one I'd endorse, but as far as the psychobabble goes, all told he probably spends 5 minutes top on his song introductions combined, so I don't know why that would keep you away from a concert. It's not like the talk goes on forever, nor does he comment prior to each song. Just 3 or so.

A meditation on contemplation on anticipation on fascination . . . it's kind of like a flu shot: it may hurt a little, but it's over fast.

Michele

lol. we posted basically the same thing at the same time, except you were nice and concise while i was rambling in circles.:rolleyes:

and yeah, only GYOW has vocals on it. def least favorite of OMS.

yup he barely talked during OMS. and he made an effort to change it a bit from time to time. plus if you don't want him to say the same pre-rehearsed thing, you could influence what he says - the intimate setting allows you to say stuff that he will hear and respond to you or get into a teasing back-an-forth.

Lindsey has excellent hearing when he wants. It's kind of funny how he'll comment on things even several rows back, if he feels like it.

Michele

You know, it all blends together for me -Palladia, YouTube, etc- so I'm not going to d*ck around with what was on what because, whatever the case, I end up reaching the same conclusion: Whether he's with the band or is playing a one man show, Lindsey has been using canned tracks, and that's the musical equivalent of glorified karaoke. I think it's crap. It's the easy way of doing things. It's the coward's way of putting on a show. It sickens me that it spilled into Fleetwood Mac shows.

The last Fleetwood Mac-related show I've seen to date was Lindsey in Cincinnati in 2006. I remember the canned tracks at that show, too. That and the psychobabble ("I wrote this song when I realized a dream I had wasn't going to come true, and that I had to give myself time to mourn the loss of that dream") are the reasons I quit going to his shows. It's not art, it's not intellectual, it's not interesting, and it's not entertaining. The best moment of the night was a somewhat sloppy version of "Bwana", which was just a one-off.

Not that my time's precious, it's just that I've moved on. I'm simply not interested in listen to a "live" show that's not really live. And, judging by some of what I've heard about half full venues, I'm apparently not alone. I know a lot of those venues from touring. It's sad when the guy who wrote "Go Your Own Way", "Tusk", "Trouble", "Go Insane", and "Big Love" and is still a member of a legendary band can't sell-out small venues.

From what you're saying, I think you would have liked his show. To see him so close, while he's playing is something special. Not Too Late, Bleed to Love Her, Big Love (duh), NGBA, Go Insane, Trouble. These were truly jaw-dropping. Cast Away Dreams was beautiful. ISA and Come (both with backing tracks) brought down the house at every performance I saw. Lindsey is Lindsey. He's never going to walk out with just one guitar and play in the stripped down fashion you're speaking of. I'd enjoy that as well, but it's never gonna happen. It's not who he is :shrug: But who he is is awful darn good, and I hope you take the opportunity next time he tours solo, regardless of how he chooses to present his songs.

Woo hoo. From a shipper perspective, that introduction is fascinating. Thanks man!

Michele

see you keep loosing me more and more with every post... so you are right, we should just let this go. i'm used to forming opinions on at least some facts. you are listing assumptions or what you think may be true based on something you last saw 7 years ago.

and OMS actually had tons of sold out shows, just check nickslive blog for some statistics. it was also the first solo tour on which he actually made money. :shrug:

This :nod:

I saw 13 shows, from Seattle to Knoxville and they were all sold out...and tons of fun :)