What if... Lindsey never left the band
 

Ok, I started the What if Stevie/Christine never joined FM threads, and some said those situation were unlikely. Well.. this one is ever more unlikely, in my opinion. Keep in mind this is just for fun: What if Lindsey had not decided to announce his retirement from Fleetwood Mac, that August 7, 1987. My ideas:

- The Tango tour would have been more succesful than it actually was.
- The "Tango in the Night" song would have been included in the setlist.
- We would have listened a live version of Big Love in its original 80s style.
- A "Behind the Mask" album (if there was) would have included some Out of the Craddle songs.
- But not much more Fleetwood Mac Albums during the 90s. Probably another one in the mid 90s equivalent to Time, or just a small tour taking advantage of the Clinton ceremony in early 90s. My point is that even though Lindsey didn't formally leave the band, Fleetwood Mac wasn't more active in the 90s than in the 80s (2 studio albums), probably because Stevie's health problems/addictions, but more specially because of the mood between members.
- 1997 was the appropiate year for a reunion anyway, when (as they actually said in an interview) there was no more baggage between them.

yes, yes, and hell yeah!

I also think: we would have heard a live Caroline and not Stand Back

I doubt the Tango tour would have been MORE successful. The first tour in five years, Stevie's solo success, and the curiousity of having two new guys made it a huge draw.

That's questionable. Probably Lindsey's fans didn't go to these shows because they were disappointed. What was bigger? the curiosity of seeing 2 new guys, or seeing my favorite lineup after 5 years?

Having been to 4 tango shows and talking to folks in the seats adjacent to me, I would guess that only 75% of the attendees knew that 1. there was a lineup change 2. That Lindsay Buckingham was the guitar player and not one of the women. That's leaves a lot attendees in the "I like Fleetwood Mac cos I know all the songs and Stevie Nicks is cool" category. Remember, tickets were affordable then, you could be a passing fan and attend a big rock concert without putting an entire paycheck on the line.

Interesting point.

I think a more poignant question would be:

What if Peter Green never left the band?

At that point in time, I don't think there was a large contingent of "only Lindsey" fans. His solo albums at that point were just "things to do while Fleetwood Mac wasn't active", rather than being a serious attempt at a solo career.

If Lindsey had never left the band, I think the whole thing would likely have imploded.

I was a little kid then, but from what I know of the band and the tour, I have to agree that it probably wouldn't have been MORE successful with Lindsey...it was very successful in it's own right. And I do remember the Mac getting a LOT of airplay at that time with the TITN singles on radio and MTV.

However, I like to think that if Lindsey was involved, the tour would have sported a much different setlist and included quite a bit of the Tango album. I think there would have either been no solo songs (1987 was the intro to FM playing Stand Back at every show) or there would have been solo songs from all three songwriters (probably, Stand Back, Go Insane, and Got a Hold On Me). Aside from Oh Well, there definitely wouldn't have been any other pre-1975 stuff....and I doubt they would have played Don't Let Me Down Again (which seemed odd to play a BN song without the B anyway).

Given the bandmates relationships at the time, I doubt the tour would have gone on into 1988 and more than likely there would have been no Behind the Mask album or much from Fleetwood Mac until the inauguration in '92.

:lol: Haha I agree! I like to think everything happens for a reason; and regardless of the turmoil it caused at the time, I think it was right and good for Lindsey to take a leave of absence. They needed space. Plus, OOTC is my favorite LB album ;) I don't want to think of a reality where that doesn't exist :xoxo:

That's very interesting. Maybe an excelent thread for the Pre-Rumours forum but since you already asked.... probably Fleetwood mac would have been more succesful but always within the british blues context. Not sure if they would have ventured like Eric Clapton in other genres.

Meanwhile, I think Lindsey and Stevie would have been succesful at some point, whenever they got an opportunity to be well known. If somebody from music business went to see them in Alabama (where they were pretty known, local radios played the BN album) or other place, maybe they would have been "discovered" like Jackon 5, Carpenters, etc.

Not sure what would have happen with Christine.

They weren't exactly British blues when he quit. I think Jeremy would still find religion, and Christine would probably replace him. She was the obvious choice for the band if anybody quit. Her being in the group was almost inevitable. I don't think Danny would have lasted much longer than he did, but I think the band could have easily soldiered on as a quartet and become as big as the Thin Lizzy's and Ten Years After's of the world.

They would have been the next Delaney & Bonnie or Richard & Linda Thompson.

In any event, I think all involved would have maintained a level of credibility, but none would have had the success.

If Lindsey would not of left the band, Fleetwood Mac would of turned into the Chris and Lindsey show. The quality of Stevie's songs were declining. Tango in the Night was really a battle between Lindsey and Christine in the songwriting department. Stevie really proved to be the weak link. I think Lindsey would of turned songs like Sky is the Limit and Behind the Mask into big hits and they would of had a couple of more huge albums but I can't see Stevie more relevant.

I can't see how Lindsey would've turned "Behind The Mask" into a hit, since he played on it anyway. I think "Tango" would've been better if Stevie would've just quit prior to it being recorded. It may have been a better record, and Lindsey might not have left.

Then....

None of us would be here on this forum. Few of us would care about Fleetwood Mac, and it's likely that FM would have faded into obscurity long, long ago.

I agree completely. They would have faded after a few more years, and that probably would have been that.
Now, are we working under the assumption that Peter wouldn't have had the bad acid trip, the German's not taken him away, and he somehow became motivated to stay in a money making band?

He didn't produce it. I mean Lindsey made things work. Behind the Mask was a mess of ideas and very little worked. It was an embarrassment. You may be right about Stevie. Seven Wonders would of been a nice hit for her solo career and Fleetwood Mac didn't need it.

I think Seven Wonders would've been perfect for her solo career.

Partially agree. I mean, Yes Lindsey didn't produce anything in the BTM album. If he had produced it (or with Dashut!), and added songs, it would have been a stronger album, even in spit of the turmoil between members that was still there. I agree completely in this. (remember how Stevie said he has a special talent to make her songs great!)

But I don't see the BTM album as just a mess of ideas. It is just weak produced. Weaker than the previous albums. Besides I do agree with Mick that it was too underrated in America (peak position: 18). He said also it reached N.1 in England. And in terms of sales, it went gold as Say You Will (500,000 sales/shipments), according to Wikipedia. That is not so embarrasing.

If Lindsey never left FM then we'd never have to deal with Stevie's solo band being part of Fleetwood Mac. They sounded perfectly fine with just the 5 of them. They don't need all those extra players on the stage.

Tango in the NIght was almost a phenomenon in England. Of course, Behind the Mask, the follow-up, did well there initially. It didn't stick around though.

I understand the need to fill Christine's spot, musically, with someone to do that harmony and the keyboard. But that could easily be done by 2 if not even just 1 person.

Why they have.. what is it.. NINE? or so back-up musicians is absolutely ridiculous to me.

Supposedly it's so they sound more like the studio versions of the songs. If I wanted to hear the studio versions, I would play a CD. I want to hear Fleetwood Mac live. Fleetwood Mac. Now, there's more extra people on stage than there are members of the band!

100% agreed!

So, who do we have? Brett, Neale (I think Carlos is gone for good from FM, but he will be with Stevie solo), Steve and two back up singers (maybe they won't have a third any longer).

Michele

who's Steve?

didn't they have another percussionist too last time around? Taku or someone?

Mick's drum tech, Steve Rinkov who sometimes plays along (i.e. "Tusk").

He's some guy who plays drums AND feeds Mick liquid doing the show. I'd be, "That's not in my job description, Fleet man." Only, I guess it is in his job description.

I don't know what his name is. Steve Rinkoff, perhaps.

Michele

Yeah, you're right. That seems like too much.

Michele

thanks! :nod:


agree. and someone would ended up in a madhouse or something similar.

I love this answer, it's so true.

Also, I actually like the idea of the poster saying SN should have not been involved TITN( moved on) and recorded 7w on her own.

and the fact that if LB hadn't left....the band would have imploded and (my take) all would be instutionalized by now. Imagine John in a corner playing a ukelele and Stevie beating Mick over the head with a (make-shift tambo) damanding he return the crayolas!

Not necessarily.
There probably would have been just a long hiatus with nobody leaving formally the band, and then a reunion like The Dance (but not necessarily in 1997).

Maybe they would have started with a quote similar to the Eagles ("For the record, we never broke up, we just took a 14-year vacation", Frey - April 1994)

That's NOT how it works!

For me Behind the Mask (the album) would have been better if Lindsey had remained, strictly as a producer. He would have worked wonders on those songs, making them sound much better and more like other Mac songs. :cool:

If Lindsey never left, the Tango tour would've been a commercial and critical I success. As it was, it made the band a lot of money but earned mixed (at best) reviews. While Lindsey didn't have a tremendous fan base the way "the girls" did, by 1988 it was clear to everyone that he was a key--no THE key--element in that magic Mac sound so many people loved to hear. He was also a dynamo on stage. As able as Vito and Burnette are musically, neither of them possess the vision or stage presence to create the kind of spark Buckingham does.

I have watched the Tango tour concert video several times and marvel at how lackluster the band look and sound on stage. That combination of six people just didn't have it. Burnette sounded fantastic with Bramlett, which tells me it wasn't only his and Vito's problem in the 1988-1990 lineup. Nicks wasn't connecting with them.

Anyway, if Lindsey never left, there may have been a follow up studio record but who knows if there'd have been more than that--or even the 1997 reunion! Part of what made The Dance so powerful was that those five had reconvened after such a dramatic and dysfunctional separation.

Hi aleuzzi, as much as I respect your opinion and input here, I agree and disagree with you.

Yes LB was the driving force behind the 75-82'ish FM sound we love.

I can't agree that Nicks didn't connect with the new members. She co-wrote with Vito and even dueted on a few songs with him (LID and Desiree on his solo album) I think this pair was a force to reckon with. I can see what you mean with her and Billy...but I think BB and CM had great chemistry together. When it Comes to Love is almost flawless...should have been a single.

I also think the members played well with each other on stage. This was now a truely group collaboration, most performers remaining and staying on stage during each others' songs. Not a "band leader" in the bunch to monopolize the stage. They genuinely come off in the video as a rock band that enjoys working together.

ITA about 97, the reunion

I felt that way when I saw them. Mick said that Stevie was used to having LB there and just didn't feel it on stage without him. Maybe that was it or maybe it was her drug state at the time, but there was a distraction. On stage together, but not together. The thing about the Rumours line up is that they not only seemed tied, but interested in one another. And I'm not saying interested in just a positive way. Sometimes they may be interested negatively like, "What is that freak doing now?" But there are often times when they are singing and playing and also seem locked into each other, for good or bad. They were aware of each other on stage and not just moving by and past each other. After the Rumours line up, the closest you would get to that vibe was between Rick and Billy jamming together, rather than feeling it through the whole band.

Yes, Desiree is an example of what Rick and Stevie can do and it sounds fantastic, but I wasn't getting that rush from them when they shared a stage.

Michele

I'm not saying this is what Stevie meant by the lyrics, but whenever I hear Paper Doll and she says, "you could have said no. You could have said 'I just can't' . . . but it doesn't even matter, it was a real clear answer."

I always thinks she means the way he left the band, that she's saying he could have just said no to the tour and not left the band altogether.

Michele

For me, the Behind the Mask album only proved that Lindsey was indeed the key to Fleetwood Mac's success.

Obviously, Billy and Rick couldn't replace that tension Lindsey brought, nor were they visionaries, per se. But, the band could have had better output nonetheless. There were just so many missteps and bad decisions. I think Red Rocks, the Tango video, OSOTM, and Greatest Hits album all hurt their image, oversaturated the market with bland products, and killed any momentum from the tour. Then they took too long to release the actual new Mac album.

Bad decisions carried into the record, too. BTM would have been better if they used a different producer (i.e. Richard Dashut, Ken Caillat, Mitchell Froom, or Patrick Leonard), used the stronger songs from Billy and Rick (i.e. Victim of Love, Game of Love, Intuition, and Got No Home), and if the girls had also brought some stronger material.