Christine & Lindsey relationship - thoughts?
 

this thread stems from the idea CAD had in the Stevie & Lindsey intimacy thread, once we started discussing Chris and Linds and the nature of their relationship.

it would be interesting to discuss both their professional and personal relationship. they both said that professionally they learned from each other a great deal, that their musical knowledge was complementary, they were developing on different and parallel planes or something like that. they worked closely together on a number of FM albums.

but since Christine left FM and active touring, there were all these weird statements from Lindsey about her "burning all bridges" with her previous life, that apparently in his opinion she didn't have to do so completely (selling the house, selling her music catalog, etc) and he couldn't even "pretend to understand" or something like that. what is behind these statements? is it regret and hurt thinly veiled behind brave face and insensitive remarks? is Lindsey the one who felt the most regretful about Christine leaving and their musical partnership resolving?

what was the nature of their personal relationship? friends certainly, you can see the warmth they had for each other, but with all the partying, drugs, alcohol and living in close quarters, it wouldn't seem surprising that something more happened between them at some - or several - points. if it did, when would that be? Mirage time seems the most obvious... we were discussing some kisses on stage during US festival (see screencap below) and Mirage concert video. if anything ever happened, would they even remember?

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4bbf9898.jpg

"how was it for you?" ;) -


please discuss, pros and cons, professional and personal, intimacy or no, anything you would like to about Chris and Linds' relationship.

(don't know whether we want to move the last page or two of discussion on these topics from the S&L intimacy thread here or just leave it there as it was an impetus for this thread?)

I remember Christine saying that she never really had a personal relationship with him. This would have been right after he left in 1987.

Romantically, I don't think they were each other's type. Look at who they were involved with. She's too butch/strong-willed/uncontrollable for him, he's too whimpy for her. If he tried to strangle her, she would have kicked his ass. I think their relationship was purely professional and creative. Beyond that, I don't see them hanging out too much.

This is from an early 90s Golmine interview with Chris, which can be found in the Blue Letter Archives, when asked whether she and LB had a special bond:

Christine McVie: I don’t think so as people. As musicians, yes, I think that he respected me as a musician, and I certainly respected him as a musician. We weren’t close friends. You couldn’t say that. I mean, Lindsey’s not really close friends with anybody.

(October 1992)

I have no doubt they respected each other as musicians, and enjoyed playing together. And of course they were kinda flirty at times (see the video Elle posted, above). I find it really hard to believe that in their wildest days they didn't hook up at some point. Nothing serious or ongoing, necessarily, but sure they did. Probably more than once!

And clearly Chris enjoyed the view from her area on stage...


http://i47.tinypic.com/35hk0g6.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/2eoxudw.jpg


Can't say I blame her :thumbsup:

It's kinda hard to say, Lindsey doesn't seem very social, but then again... neither does Chris, they had to have something going on I mean their voices are pretty much the same except Lindsey's is masculine and vice versa. They had to have had some connection I mean the Video with them performing Tusk is super intense and about the wildest Christine gets.

Don't know why this thread made remember this episode from the Tusk tour, mentioned in Mick's book. It wa in New Zealand after several months on the road, and they were oversaturated and exhausted, the tour was taking its tool:

By then, the exhaustion of constant travel began to set in, and we were all pretty brainfried. Lindsey hit the old scotch bottle a little too hard before the concert, and halfway through the performance he snapped like a guitar string tuned ten octaves too high. First I noticed that he was playing out of tune.Then he started to clown around and mimic Stevie while she was dancing around the stage. Then, while she was hunched over, upstage of Lindsey, during her "Rhiannon" performance, he stopped playing and pulled his jacket over his head in a grotesque imitation of her pose. At that point he lost all control, playing anything except "Rhiannon," laughing like a madman. Then he started to kick Stevie while she was trying to salvage the number. Sixty thousand people were watching! Lindsey would flick his foot at her and Stevie would shy away, trying to cover up his stoned-out behavior to save us all from dying of embarrassment. The rest of the band could only look at each other in disbelief.

The show finally over, we stumbled into the stadium's rugby changing rooms, where we were dressing. There would be no encore that night: we were all freaked out. I could hear the crowd screaming for more as Christine McVie stormed into the room, utterly hell-bent, and made straight for Mr. Buckingham, who was slumped miserably on a bench. Lindsey stood up, and Chris smacked him crack! right in the face. Then she threw her drink at him for good measure. "Don't you ever do this to this band again," she shouted. "Ever! Is that clear?" Then she stormed out again.

.... Christine and Lindsey didn't speak to each other for a week afterwards.

I know she respected him a lot but this shows also how she loved the band.

That's funny, because Stevie and Lindsey's voices are the same too. She has noted how weird it is that he sounds like her when his voice is sped up and she sounds like him when her voice is slowed down. And she also said that with his magic in the studio, on SYW she didn't know if it was Christine singing or Lindsey being Christine. Lindsey is both Stevie and Christine.

More proof that those 3 were meant to be together.

Michele

I don't think Christine was as strong in her personal life as she was within the band. The main men in her life that we know about, John, Dennis and Eddy all seemed to have walked over her. In fact, I have a good idea that if John was running around chasing after Stevie with a butcher knife, she'd turn around and give him a piece of her mind and more, faster than Christine would. Christine tolerated a lot in her love life, before she resolved to leave.

Christine has two sides. She can be tough and take charge, but she also goes soft. I mean, when she says Oh Daddy is about Mick, at least in part, I believe her because look at that tour video when she is basically tugging on Mick's sleeve and whining. If Lindsey gets to leave and skip the press conference, why can't she do it? She doesn't want to do it, if Lindsey doesn't have to. Mick just ignores her. It made me laugh because it was very father/daughter. There was a little girl in her.

Michele

As far as Chris and Lindsey's relationship, I can believe they never had sex. Yet, I wouldn't be shocked if they did. But I don't necessarily think that was the case.

I think they had a deep affection which they mainly (if not only) expressed musically and when the music between them was gone it left a void. You still have this feeling for a person, but no longer any way to communicate and convey it. You know, Lindsey will say he shared things with these people that he shared with no one else except his family and, in fact, he said he's been through more with them than he has with his family. But he has this base with his family which gives him many ways to connect with them, totally outside of music. He doesn't have that with FM and when they aren't playing together, they really have nothing to do with that residual emotion. I think it's sad in a way.

Stevie said that she was upset when Lindsey entered the band and wrote World Turning with Christine right away, when she and Lindsey had not written before. Now, I don't think Stevie wanted Lindsey as a songwriting partner, but what I think she was jealous of was the connection that music gave Lindsey and Christine. Something she and Lindsey never shared, as equals. They were in music together, but not on the same level with one another. Stevie could do things that Lindsey couldn't do, but it was nothing that he particularly valued. He meets Christine and immediately they are communing as musicians. That pricked Stevie a bit.

While Lindsey and Christine may not have been lovers, they were certainly aware of each other physically. Lots of touching. Now, I don't see her touching Mick and John so much, but, in fairness, that could have been just because Lindsey walked the stage, John does not (except during Stand Back he did walk the stage to move on the opposite side of Lindsey and Christine who were canoodling) and Mick cannot. If Mick was on the floor with Christine and not stuck behind a drumkit, he may have been making out with her non-stop. Who can say.

I did notice during the BTM appearances, Christine had her fingers in Lindsey's hair and on his face as they stood together (and Stevie was collecting for Greenpeace). I have never seen her caressing John, Mick, Rick OR Billy while standing on stage for the final bow like that.

Mick said when it was cold he and Peter used to sleep together and hold each other for warmth. So . . . well . . . who knows what any of it means.

Michele

I think some of that's show. They all get touchy-feely during the shows. Look at the clips from "Songbird".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8Vz5ZmJCJ4

where is that throw-up emoticon when one needs it? you post a youtube vid of Lindsey-less FM in a thread about lindsey and christine? :rolleyes: ;)

Short and to the point....

Everybody in Fleetwood Mac slept with EVERYBODY in Fleetwood Mac!!!! :nod:

John did say something like that. He had an exception though. I think he said everyone slept with everyone except him and Mick, but I'm not 100% sure if that was the couple he excluded.

Michele

http://i45.tinypic.com/9r2b1l.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/b5snjd.jpg

Stevie could have come up and knocked out their teeth. Michele

To show that the lovey-dovey thing is just what they do at the end of the shows. It's not exclusive to Chris and Lindsey.

i didn't know Lindsey and Christine were doing some special lovey-dovey thing at the end of the shows? if you have it, can you share some Lindsey/Christine end of shows lovey-dovey things you are referring to?

so far, seems that people have been bringing up various kisses and warm behavior between Lindsey and Christine during Mirage shows, not at the end. different than during other tours.

also photos of what seem to be warm encounters at events like weddings of mutual acquaintances after they wouldn't work together for a while.

too funny - perfect pose of mac songwriters!

thank you for sharing that! i remember seeing several pictures, from various periods, of the 2 of them sitting at the table somewhere outside like this - anybody have any of those?

First part of the Dance tour they were kissing at the end of the shows and they were also doing things during Stand Back. Well, not lovey dovey, just talking close so that they could hear each other. Also, during GYOW he would either touch her head with his head or come around the piano and put his face against her face. Bury his nose between her cheek and her neck.

But he would touch all 3 of them during GYOW. With Stevie, what he usually did was nuzzle the back of her neck and she would tense up her shoulders. She would be standing there right by Chris' piano. But for the last Dance shows, she moved away from Chris' piano. When she moved away from him, he hunted her down for the nuzzle -- and he kissed her.

Chris wasn't doing anything lovey dovey with anyone else on that Dance tour. Mick would collect her after Songbird, but she wasn't as affectionate with him generally as she was on the Dance dvd. She was kissing Lindsey on the mouth for half of the tour. Then she stopped. I guess he burned his bridges. No, I am tired of him being blamed for everything, but I did laugh when I reviewed an old interview this week and he said that he may have been "indirectly" involved in her decision to leave (meaning only that he supported her needing to get away as a survival move, because he had done the same himself). I thought to myself based on what we heard in recent months, "yeah you were indirectly involved alright, Buddy. You were apparently so angry because you didn't win a Grammy that she couldn't take any more."

Michele

I've seen other table shots, but they were from this same day, from a different angle.

Michele

I know there are those ones from the Tusk era where Stevie's wearing pants. I think Chris and Lindsey were sitting next to each other for those too.

Ok, I am looking at the Mirage video now. I listened to Love in Store hoping to hear the B3 dirge that David described (not that I'd recognize it if I did), but anyway after the song when Lindsey said, "Christine McVie!" it reminded me of the times when no one would introduce her, so Chris would just say her own name. So hilarious.

Michele

I feel like I need to screencap this "tear" under Lindsey's eye as he repeatedly pants, "don't make me wait," Dee. :cool:

Michele

Nope, I failed guys, Going through this video, I did not see the kiss. Michele

Speaking of kisses... :laugh:

http://31.media.tumblr.com/fb11f53ad...lffjo1_400.gif

This one is from Largo, 1979:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/3c2ceacd3...lffjo1_250.gif

For the rest of this month, my motto is: I'm waiting on the countdown, sitting in the shade. Things about to turn around. How the madness fades.

I can hardly function mentally any longer. You know, exhilarating, disappointing or something in between, London is going to be one of those moments in history that ... This month, we're getting a top 10 FM moment, any way it goes, good, bad or indifferent.

Michele

Do you think Chris will go through with it, Michele?

I'm still unsure that she will want to perform in front of however many people are in the O2.

Of course if it happened that would be amazing :D

Still don't know which night, right?

Yes, I think she'll do it. Since she has spoken about it -- and not just, Mick -- I don't think it is something she won't do.

No, we don't have a night for it. I am thinking both of the last 2 nights though, if I have to place a wager,

Michele

Like I said on the Stevie & Lindsey thread. I don't think Lindsey and Chris did or were sleeping together.

I do think that they were close co-workers, and did definitely care about each other. They have the same sarcastic humor, respect each other musically, so I'm sure in the studio and on tour they had a good time together, but I think it stopped there.

Chris definitely thought Lindsey was hot. She even said so in several interviews. So, I think she might have been willing to sleep with Lindsey (though not have a relationship with him) if he wanted to, because he was hot but he was also not her type. She liked a guy that was laid back, and fun, and that she could have a beer with. Lindsey is NOTHING like that.

I think Lindsey found her attractive, and enjoyed hanging out with her, but all the interviews I have ever seen where he talks about Chris, he never seem like he was interested in having a serious relationship with her. It always seem to me that he saw her as a kindred spirit, but nothing romantic.

(IMO) Lindsey was still dealing with the fall out from his and Stevie's relationship and still having emotional issues with having to see her and work with her everyday. I can't see him wanting to sleep with another female (even if he found her attractive) in the band and possibly having to deal with more drama within the band from not just 1 woman, but 2. Also, you know it would have ticked John off as well, so then Lindsey would would have to deal with John too.

There are times when Stevie and John would flirt with each other (obviously to tick Lindsey & Chris off) and then you would see Lindsey and Chris start flirting with each other to get back at them, but I just don't think anything happen with Lindsey & Chris anymore than with John & Stevie.

frankly, i think they themselves may not even know lol. they were all so high and drunk and out of it for so much of their time together and sharing close quarters and changing in the same dressing room and partying and who knows what that i wouldn't be in the least surprised if either couple did it maybe once maybe twice. ;) i don't think rational thinking had too much to do with most of their actions at the time.

i don't really care about John's or Stevie's private lives (more than i have to because it's being thrown in my face by lyrics, interviews or fans). looking at Christine and Lindsey and some of their interactions i wouldn't be surprised if it happened here or there.

but mostly i do think that Christine and Lindsey have some great chemistry together, and interesting warm relationship with a lot of respect for each other's work and musicianship and enjoying some wry humor together... as Lindsey also mentioned when describing FM getting together in LA at the beginning of this year, right before the tour started. i don't know enough and it's not really my business but i don't think either of them ever really had any couple relationship inclinations towards each other.

IMO, I think that if there was a point where Chris and Lindsey slept together, it would be between Mirage and Tango in the Night, but it's a short fling, at most. I don't see them being in a relationship together because she's too 'forward' for him, he's too 'uptight' for her. But I won't be shocked if they haven't slept together either.

If we're talking about a musical relationship, then hell to the yes. The mutual understanding they have is extremely palpable.

hope it happens and goes great and gets recorded multiple times for posterity by multiple fans from multiple positions in the audience... although expectations are so high and low at the same time that it's hard to tell.

I think it would happen, since Christine herself has said she would do it. She has committed publicly and privately. If there's a strength personality-wise that woman has, it is keeping her word. :nod:

There are photos in here from The Dance, but what stands out most to me in the taped concert is the song "Bleed to Love Her." There are shot-reverse-shots of Lindsey and Christine playing to each other in that song, with Stevie off playing her tambourine. That song always stands out to me; I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned in this topic.

Also, aren't there rumours that the song "Isn't It Midnight" had some resonance to a Lindsey-Christine affair?

I can't believe it's September already!!

I agree completely.

I don't think Lindsey and Christine were having an affair at all. However, whenever he is standing away from his mic, not singing, he is frequently looking at Christine. That's always been true and that is certainly a poignant part of the official Dance dvd. Brett never got that kind of action:laugh:.

Michele

I don't think it's an allusion to an affair either.

Personally, I'd prefer to think of their chemistry as sensual, and not sexual. :nod:

And I actually think of it as more spiritual, and not sensual or sexual. Anyway, there was awkwardness with Lindsey, Stevie and John for BTM, but Christine and Lindsey were beautiful, I thought and my fervent hope is that there is some interaction between Lindsey and Christine in September that is warm and genuine and not distant or strained. Like it or not, there is going to be a Don't Stop and I hope it's a good one.

I think they have been cool perhaps since SYW, but I don't think that would have persisted if they'd been in close proximity to each other over these intervening years.

And I just want her to stay on the stage. For BTM Lindsey did go off stage and Mick called him back for the last bow, but that was only respectful to Rick and Billy. This time, Mick can call Christine back onto the stage after Say Goodbye to take a bow with them, but I am dreaming of something a little different than that. I'll be here indulging my fantasies for the next 3 weeks.

Michele

There are also looks between Lindsey and Mick during Mirage concert :laugh::laugh:

Ah, Lindsey and Mick. True love, though "it's complicated."

Michele