A response to promoting IN YOUR DREAMS. Why?
 

I was going to respond to one of the many
posts commenting on Stevie continuing to
promote In Your Dreams in the various
other threads. Not wanting to single anyone
out, I figured I would post it here.

The album is done. It's almost a year old now,
why keep banging your head against the wall?
Right now it's #1,115 on Amazon's best seller
list. And unless there's a deluxe edition on the
way (someone at WB/Reprise didn't have any
info on it or the documentary) it's toast.

This is not a negative review of the album or a
comment on it's relatively decent showing on
Billboard's Charts, all things being considered.

Stevie's fanbase bought the album up in the first
few weeks of release. Like we always do.
So who else is going to buy it? Who's it being
promoted to?

Someone suggested she's touring to bankroll
the IYD Documentary. Honestly, how
many shows do you think it would take for this
type of project? Unless she's going to pull an
Avatar on us.

She's touring to pad her bank account. Nothing
wrong with that. I personally wish it was with
someone other than Stewart this time around.
But she's got to pick someone around her age.
You wouldn't want a young audience would you?

If she really cares about the album and her fans,
I wish she'd tour the 2000 seat theatres among
us. And sing several songs off the new album.
A pay cut for sure, but isn't it all about the music?

Nope, probably never has been...

Well, promoting the album has done some good. And Stevie knows how to beat a dead horse 6 feet under -- hence, landslide, which is well on its way to becoming Fleetwood Mac's first platinum single. After so many not up to par albums, she believes in this one and wants people to hear it. I think there are going to be surprises on this package too.

"Someone suggested she's touring to bankroll
the IYD Documentary"

why would she be bankrolling her own projects ?
she couldn't possibly need to tour just to meet her day to day expenses , she must have enough to live out her life comfortably, If Christine can do it on money made during her time in Fleetwood Mac .

Where do you guys get this information?

I wish Stevie would embrace that she is a catalogue artist. Nothing wrong with that. Her new material will never charge out the gate, but she will always sell consistently and new fans will join the fold. ... And one of the best things to encourage her enduring catalogue status artist is to tour with the Mac...

Touring with Rod is a bummer for me, because I will NEVER go back into that situation again. It was not fun, being treated that way for standing up during Edge of Seventeen--and having to endure a dour Stevie set.

It's true that Stevie has plenty of money and that she never has to work another day for the rest of her life. But she isn't really a major catalogue artist. Her own solo back catalogue is largely out of print or not selling at all. The only reliable source of income she has is from Rumours and a couple of the greatest hits packages. But all of that gets split 3/4/5 ways, so her share is relatively modest. Unlike Christine, Mama got bills. As a working artist, she's got assistants, band members and probably other domestic employees on payroll (or on contract). Sure, she can take a year off, but she still has to pay all of these salaries, which means she can end up in the red for the year after expenses if she doesn't do something. I don't know about everyone else, but I would hate the thought of making a negative income, even if I was super-wealthy, especially if I am near retirement age. Hence, this is why she does at least a handful of shows every year- just to pay the overhead, if nothing else.

Yes, I'd read where others think she might be
doing the upcoming tour to pay the expense
of the documentary. I have a hard time believing
that. Two reasons come to mind. First it won't
sell. And second why would she risk much of
her own money? Not even counting the fact that
the documentary will probably be a low cost project.

I'm not so sure she has the money to live out
the rest of her life comfortably, at least in Stevie
Nicks' view. Most artist seem to go through their
money fast. It's happened time and time again.

There is no way Mama NEEDS the cash, she just WANTS it. More power to her. But she has plenty of millions she just doesn't like to spend it w/out putting new money in the bank to replace it. I think she's doing what her management and Liz tell her is best for her long-term. She believes in IYD's hopefully
the Doc will come out before I kick the bucket...lets see I'm in my mid-thirties now..;)....

Maybe the money is not about Stevie adding to her bank account, but perhaps the myriad of support staff, family and musicians she wants to take care of. She employs many people in her circle.

I suspect the IYD documentary is more of a Stevie-Dave collaboration, with Dave realizing most of the net proceeds, that is, assuming there are any net proceeds. All Stevie had to do was... do her hair and makeup and show up every day for work. Dave is probably the one who had to pay for the crew, the equipment and the post-production. Suffice it to say, the IYD documentary probably did not cost much to make, since the vast majority of it was (supposedly) shot in or around Stevie's house. Dave is probably gambling on the potential upside of the documentary playing in small art house theatres in select cities, which is conceivable if it's marketed strategically and if critics actually publish glowing reviews a la Joan Rivers: A Piece of Work. And if it gets picked up by HBO or Showtime, it will definitely be worth the investment.

Stevie most definitely has enough money to retire comfortably. She's not a big boat and fancy car type. And she's not exactly a fashion plate either. Her homes are already paid off and are relatively modest in scale- she's not living on a private island. She's been around the block long enough to understand money and she probably has people giving her advice as well. Without the overhead of a small workforce, she can easily afford a luxurious life of leisure.

I hate to say this .I still think its a flop.No radio support.Alittle support from the record label.The cd drop was absent do Stevie getting sick probably from doing the first trip with Rod.Not recognized for nomination for awards from the industry.Backing out from some major tv programs.Thats my feelings about this cd.Its sad to see this cd go to waste.

I think it flopped too. "Flop" isn't an absolute all the time; sometimes it's a relative concept. Her album flopped because it didn't measure up commercially to dozens of other albums at the very same time. Of course, there's also the idea of artistic flop. But if you judge the critical reception, it did not flop.

Stevie probably feels about "In Your Dreams" the way Lindsey felt about his first three or four solo albums. You put everything you've got into an album & you love the results so much that you believe millions of people will "get" what you wanted to do, too. When that doesn't happen, disillusion settles over you like dust.

I would imagine that the two of them have much more in common to talk about these days.

Interesting post, really. Not being Stevie or being in a position to ask, I can only speculate. I think that in her world, her life is defined in album-eras. Right now, she's in the In Your Dreams era. If she stops touring, if she starts recording a new album, if she teams up with Lindsey for a Fleetwood Mac project - all of these would put an end to the In Your Dreams stage of her careeer.

She loves that album, she's believes (as do I) that it's some of her best work and she's proud of it. She simply isn't ready to start a new era, so she's touring to continue to promote IYD so she doesn't have to walk away and start a new era of her career.

Personally, I think this is why it takes her so damn long to do anything. She wants to savor every last drop.

In Your Dreams is done. She's not touring to promote that. No more than she's been touring a little almost every year the past decade with no new music to promote.

Stevie is touring to promote STEVIE!:nod:

That's what she's always done. Stevie is a brand. Since the begining of the last decade she's been working it the best way she can. She's touring with Rod because she can do the least amount of work to reach the widest possible audience. It's also a way for her to bank the easiest paycheck. Mama has overhead. Breaking even is still worth it to her if her people can make a living while she keeps the "legend" going for as long as possible without falling into the red to do it.

Touring with the Mac comes with a huge can of worms for Stevie. The politics of that situation changes everything. If making money was her ultimate goal, she'd run the Mac into the ground while singing all the way to the bank. Fleetwood Mac is a brand too, but with a different agenda. Stevie is only one link in the chain.

Question is, if not for the money or promoting new music...why keep the Stevie thing going? She can collect her Social Security now. No matter how much we think she lives for her music, she won't die if she stops working. Her solo image/legacy is about a solid as it's ever going to get.

Best guess: if Fleetwood Mac ever does another project it doesn't hurt that Stevie, and Lindsey, too, have continued to work and keep themselves in the public eye since 2003. Maybe they've got something else up their sleeve? :shrug:

I don't understand the cynicism around here, regarding Stevie wanting to make money in the latter days of her career. She's paid her dues & she's earned the right to go out and tour for however long people still want to pay to see her. That doesn't negate her as an artist. For a considerably long span of time, she wrote more songs & recorded more music than anyone else in Fleetwood Mac. So now she's "resting on her laurels" more often than not. Big whoop.

She loves her music and she loves to make money. One doesn't cancel out the other.

I have to agree the money part Everybody love to make money.

But.Yes she loves her music.We cant take that away from her.IYD was for us and we loved it.

Yes, I agree. And anyone thinking that this has nothing to do with the music and is all about money is full of ****. It's obvious Nicks loves this album and wants to keep pushing it. Good for her.

It sad the music industry did not recognize this masterpiece of hers.Over shadowing the new artists with alittle or no talent at all.What would the new talent do if there was no computer autotune in the studio.Its like steroids in sports.

I don't get it either, especially coming from supposed Stevie Nicks *fans*.

The "IYD was a flop" comments are annoying too because to me it's a real apples-oranges comparison that is taking IYD out of context. You have to consider IYD as it compares to it's time and where Nicks' is in her career:
1. Most artists are selling a lot less, with the very occasional exception of an Adele or a Lady Gaga. Its rare to see an album go Gold for *anyone*.
2. Nicks is a an artist in the twilight of her career, so is she selling albums in the same range as others in a similar boat? In most cases she's outsold them with IYD.
3. IYD hit #6. I mean it was a Top 10 album for chrissakes. When does a top 10 album become a "flop"?

The closest Nicks has come to a real flop as a solo artist is "Street Angel". Yes that album did finally go Gold, but for the era that it was released (when albums still sold) it did poorly and was Nicks' first album to not peak in the top 20.

Well chalk that up to new generations. Even the Rolling Stones get set aside as "old news".

This is why I think IYD was a hit, though. In spite of no support at radio it still hit the Top 10, she still had two AC hit singles, and the album has probably sold somewhere around 170,000 which is higher than what many legacy acts are able to do.

I'm talking about todays standards about flop.Compared to the current artists.Of course .I'm not comdemning this cd is a loss.I'm just upset about it and to see it go to waste.

The filming and editing costs have probably already been paid for, but promotion and physical copies of the documentary are not free. Sure she will recoup that money if sales are good, but what if they aren't? What if the documentary costs more than it makes? Then Stevie is left holding the ball. Can she afford to release something that doesn't break even? Definitely! But if she can mitigate that risk by touring with Rod, then why not? I am not saying that Stevie has to tour in order to release the documentary, but what I do believe is that if Stevie chose not to tour with Rod, then she would not be guaranteed that she could tour this year, especially to such a large audience. She then risks not being able to secure a tour this year, which would leave her financing her own promotion! Why pay to fly to New York to do nothing but promote and get paid nothing for it when you can just do that promotion while you are already there playing a show? All in all, I think the tour with Rod was most likely agreed upon with high consideration of all of her expenses, including her plans for the IYD doc.

I have a crazy radical idea about why Stevie is still touring with In Your Dreams. It may be unpopular but I'm going to state it anyway. She's doing this because...




she wants to.



:p

[QUOTE=UndoingTheLaces;1041968]I have a crazy radical idea about why Stevie is still touring with In Your Dreams. It may be unpopular but I'm going to state it anyway. She's doing this because...




she wants to.

Amen...Amen... Amen:angel: good for you!

IYD was not a flop. She has only had three solid albums in my opinion, and IYDs was one of them. And to get that type of music and quality from later career is a miracle. She did not release the right singles or embrace the internet quick enough. It's not too late, she can still sale 300.000 if she gets the word out. I just don't think this album will die that quick. Somewhere it will find a home.

[QUOTE=mikephxaz;1041971]I agree, its that simple.. & another opportunity to promote IYD's CD, & Doc.

Im hoping Stevie will do the the talk show scene as well..

In the used CD bin?:laugh:

I just really want more recording from our lady. At least one more album, a sincere one, mostly introspective ballads, with little or no co-writing and with stellar production. Her voice would suit that and there is still (barely) enough fan energy to make it worthwhile.

No that was the Other Side of the Mirror.

She should start promoting Leather and Lace and Edge of Seventeen the way she promotes Landslide. IYD dreams is really the first time I can remember where she has concentrated on her own product for very long at all. She needs to champion other songs off that album. What bothers me about Stevie is that she has songs in her own arsenol that should be Gold by now. But she doesn't talk about them much. Bella Donna and The Wild Heart could become more successful in the Catalog department if she did. Last year, many people mentioned Leather and Lace as one of their favorite songs of hers and it's like she shied away from it. Don't get it. It should be sung at ever concert and treated like Landslide.

^ Landslide has taken on a life of it's own, and I don't think it did so largely out of Stevie's control. Even she's remarked that she's sick of singing it.

I never find Stevie's older cds in the used or cutout bins.

I think Stevie knows the writing is on the wall in terms of how many years she's got left to make any money off performing... realistically, I just don't think she can go out and do Edge of 17 at 70.... so that means she's got a good what 6 yrs roughly left? I think she does want to make money and I think she knows she hasn't got that many more years left... And she has an ego. Anybody that famous always wants to continue to feel relevant. A new album makes you relevant rather than just someone retreading their old hits (AGAIN).

That said, we just went last night to see Joan Rivers perform live at Symphony Hall and she's SEVENTY-EIGHT.

Realistically though, standing and telling jokes (though she was very physical, more than I would have ever expected) is NOT bopping around on platform boots and belting out rock and roll for two hours... and I don't see mama being physically able to do that for much longer, let alone at 78... which frankly would just be unseemly anyway. At some point you really do become a sad shadow of your former self and trying to maintain and live up to an act that you established when you were in your 30s is just, well... pathetic. So I think she's squeezing the cash cow until it dries up.

I hope she hits the road for more solo shows after the Rod gigs, and from what I have heard it is likely she will. Of course she is touring this summer. That's what Stevie does. Naysayers, meet Stevie Nicks. Road warrior. Cliff dweller from the old school. Pounder of the boards with platforms or frankenboks in any shed or similar venue she can book from July to September almost every year since 19 f-ing 75. I am sure she is pleased to meet you. Get to know her. She tours and makes money, which we all need to do, and has fun. She loves performing and like she has often said, what the hell else is gonna do but play music? How is this news to anyone with a brain and an internet connection?

I for one am glad she tours all the time. I don't go to all of the shows I can. But I am thrilled she still can get out there and do it. I never thought in the old days she would still be at it and still have the ability to not only knock it out of the park on some days, but also be consistently good. Her hallmark for many years was inconsistency. Good for her. She is a workhorse. And she finally got it down to a reliable art.

As far as IYD being a flop - I don't think it was. It did not do as well as some hoped it would. Myself included. But the truth is the market has changed so much and continues to change on a daily basis. What is the real litmus test for an artist her age? It is very hard to say. It did better than most recent releases by artists from her generation. And her hip factor remains through the roof. She wouldn't get bookings on Ellen, AGT, The Voice, or any such big shows if the producers did not think people would watch. Not only do people watch, but her legend precedes her. There is a tremendous good will towards her in the business as well. People behind the scenes love her. She's a pro. She nails the rehearsals, does her bit, everyone has fun with her. The sales? Who cares? She got great reviews. She did a nice and well attended support tour. Those of us who are lifelong fans by and large loved the record. I even converted a few decades long naysayers who were moved to tears by the work on IYD. I think the project was a major victory.

She clearly does as well. And if she wants to keep pushing it, good on her. The songs are worth it. She should be proud. And if that means she bucks common sense and keeps touring behind it, I am right there with her. Say what you will about Stevie, she does whatever the hell she wants. For her own reasons. And she always has. I haven't always agreed with her decisions, and I am sure she couldn't give a rat's ass, but in this case I do agree. I love this record as much as she does. And I think it is some small miracle she is as good as she still is. I never expected her to be able to pull this off, so I am gonna celebrate it as long as she does.

I think that "In Your Dreams" still has got potential but maybe Stevie should try to promote it more outside of US. I am aware that US is her most important market but on the other hand there are so many different places in which she can achieve some degree of commercial success. For example: France, Germany, Holland, South America...

Landslide was an album cut and was never promoted as a single off the white album. AOR stations played it in the 70's simply because it was a great song and people responded to it. It became a concert staple for the same reason. They needed to play new material and people loved it. It was being performed in high school auditoriums in high schools in the 80's not because it was a hit, but because it is one her purest and highest quality compositions. Anyone can sing it. Everyone relates to it. It is her crowning achievement as a songwriter. Simply in terms of mass appeal and moneymaking it surpasses the precious only number one FM song Dreams.

She didn't have any problems redoing her pool with the proceeds of the Smashing Pumpkin's dreadful whining cover, and even gloated over the 5 million dollar royalty check from the Dixie Chicks revival hit. Landslide put her on the map as a true songwriter decades after its birth and got her an award. She may bitch about having to sing it, and I personally pee during her current concert reading of it, but
it is a goldmine financially and has been one of the bedrocks of her being taken seriously as a writer.

See any online reference to Dolly Parton and her reaction to the late Whitney Houston's massive success with her vocal bull in a china shop butcher job of I Will Always Love You. I may recall this quote somewhat incorrectly, but Dolly thanked Whitney that year at an awards ceremony for the success of the recording and cited "3 million reasons." Then cackled her priceless Tennessee laugh.

Stevie may be as sick of singing Landslide as I am of hearing it. But it made her a fortune, and vaulted her to a position as a composer that neither Lindsey, Christine, or many of her idols have ever attained.

It has never been "ALL" about the music though. It very rarely is for anyone. Is that wrong? Probably not. The fans would love to think that Stevie doesn't care about album sales, dollars and whatever else and just cares about producing music. That is as far from realism as it gets. Sure, I'm sure she cares about her music but it isn't just about that.

Stevie is welcome to make as much money as she can from her talent, and good luck to her. Just don't tell me that she's only in it for the sake of her art.

who said she is releasing this , is this a vanity project like cher's 'not.com.mercial' the one she produced , manufactured at her cost in limited edition and sold on line?

I would assume she is /has been shopping around for a distributor to suck up expenses and cost

It all comes down to contracts and risk transfer. If Stevie has a 360 degree contract with WB, they may in fact REQUIRE her to tour for them to release the documentary and then they can gain revenue for both!

Denial is good. :shrug: