Saw Pat Benatar BTM, Pat Vs Stevie Nicks?
 

Hello All

I was kind of bored yesterday and decided to watch Pat Benatar BTM Re Loaded, Etc

I was wondering, was/is PB career better than SN ? in terms of sales , etc. It’s weird, I went into it thinking no way, but the program really made it sound like PB was huge. I mean, I gathered that PB hasn’t had a top 20 album since 1988, and I know SN Has, but in terms of sales, etc. was wondering what the comparison is like?


Also, they had some other singers on there saying that PB was the first female voice, etc., but wasn’t SN around during that time.

I am not sure what to believe, maybe VH1 BTM really glams up the persons career to make it huge, or maybe SN FM success maybe confuses me with her solo success?

So, what is the comparison like, PB vs. SN?

This is a tough one

I don't see many comparisons between Pat and Stevie, other than they are female singers.

Pat has some good songs, but I can't think of anytime I've heard them described as "beautiful" or "haunting" the way Stevie's songs are.

Also, Stevie's style is timeless. I don't see people running around with oversized purple blazers and red headbands on. Stevie's clothes from the 70's are still inspiring new designers. Is there a Night of a Thousand Pats? Does Pat have her version of the Ledge? Maybe she does.

Oh, Pat did have memorable videos in the 80's. Love is a Battlefield is cool.

Interesting thread, maybe there's more to Pat than I'm aware of!

I'm not sure about actual sales - I think Pat may have Stevie beat, solo-wise, but I'd have to go add it all up which I'm too lazy to do. Someone else might know.

I don know that Pat has won something like 4 grammy's, though, if that means anything to you.

But regardless of who was the most popular back in the day (and if you're including Stevie's work with Fleetwood Mac then I don't think there's any competition at all) - I think it's clear that Stevie has had more longevity and has had greater longterm success as an artist and as a figure in popular culture.

imho, Pat was the sh*t in her day. She didn't front a band. She was her own thing. She was a hard rocking no bs kind of gal. And tho SN solo was a rockin' chick, she was still part of a band, and not balls out/rock out like PB was from the get go. Ladies like PB and Joan Jett and Lita Ford were taking MTV and airwaves by storm, and I think that the BTM is just really pushing that micro-time she had. And also, hubby guitar player (Girardo??) was the first MTV aired guitarist, so that earns some respect/pop culture trivia. Is she better than SN? Not in my book. Is she equally flippin awesome? hells yea. I just saw her for the first time about a year ago and was bowled over. That lady can SING, and she's cute as a frickin' button. Other than being awesome ladies of the 80's, I don't feel that they can be compared.

I have always found the Stevie Nicks / Pat Benatar comparison interesting....Of course I preferred Stevie but I remember that Pat seemed to have an edge that str8 guys my age (in the 80ties) could enjoy while Stevie was always airy/fairy gypsy stuff that guys didnt always connect with...Recently when Oprah had female Rock singers on...Stevie was certainly showcased over Pat. But Stevie has taken on the somewhat honored Grand Dame of Rock now...Pat has not received that respect...As much as I bitch about Lyndsey, make no mistake about it, Stevie's career with Fleetwood Mac has been the driving force of her becoming a legend...to the greater public her solo career has not reached the hiegths of FM...I have always respected Pat's music catalouge but I have LOVED Stevie's....

Pat has a magnificent voice, and I like a few of her songs, but I never liked her enough to buy an album. Stevie enjoys cult status, and Pat is definitely not there, and I don't think she will ever be. I don't know if she was the sh*t in the 80's since I was a baby then, but I do believe she was. However, I don't think that her music have stood the test of time like Stevie's did. I don't see new artists covering her songs, or being inspired by her.

P.S. WildHearted mentioned that Pat has won 4 grammys. Isn't it weird that everybody seems to think that Stevie's won like dozens of them? :laugh: Every now and then I see an article about "the gazillion grammy award winning artist Stevie Nicks", and the whole Kathy Griffin/Bette Midler phone conversation.

Pat Benatar is brilliant, I own all of her albums, and her songs are fantastic. I went to see her in concert a couple of years back and she was brilliant.

Can you compare Stevie to Pat or Stevie to Ann Wilson or whatever? They are all different, different music, styles, etc. Personally I think Pat is probably accessible to more people than Stevie is especially these days. I doubt she has the one-eyed fan base though...

They aren't the same though, Pat is Pat and Stevie is Stevie. Bonnie Tyler is still better than any of them :nod:

It was fun to see Pat on Oprah with Stevie. Stevie and Pat hugged and had alot to say to each other after the cameras were turned off. They seemed to enjoy each other and be quite friendly.

Pat really nailed "Love is a Battlefield" on the show. I saw her recently in concert and I like her voice better now. It is richer. She and husband, Neil Giraldo put on a great show. She is adorable and a trail blazing rocker. She is adorable on stage and hip (no 80s shoulder pads and leotard..haha). She was classically trained for opera and has a vocal range of 4 octaves (incredible)! I read her book which was one of the give aways from the Oprah show. Very interesting read about Pat's career and the music business during the 80s and how she raised her daughters.

She has 4 gold records and 6 platinum. Some hits you may recognize are "Heartbreaker", "Hit me with you Best Shot", "Fire and Ice", " Invincible", and "We Belong".

I think it is hard to compare Stevie and Pat. They were both female rockers from the 70s and 80s. Different strengths and weaknesses though. Go see Pat if you have the opportunity, You won't be disappointed.

I think Stevie is the most successful overall, but I think Pat is the more successful solo artist. Not that she blows Stevie out of the water, but because Stevie's solo career has and will always be overshadowed by her career with Fleetwood Mac.

I love Pat. I had been listening to her music before I discovered Stevie. I think she outsold Stevie during the 80's but only because she released more albums. Stevie had only 4 while Pat released like 8 or 9 (depending if you count the sales of her 1979's debut album "In The Heat of The Night"). Billboard Magazine ranks Benatar as all time best selling Female Rock artist with probably 15 Top 40 hits. Of course they count only singles because when it comes to albums sales she's way behind Sheryl Crow or Alanis Morisette...or Stevie for that matter (Stevie has sold like 12 milion albums in US and Pat like 11). Benatar was huge in the 80's and definately helped to pave the way for future Pop/Rock artists. She's never become icon or legend in the vein of Stevie because for the most part of her career she depended on outside writers. Besides Stevie always had Fleetwood Mac which only helped to cement her iconic status. What I admire about Pat is however not only her mind blowing vocal and often-pleasant songs but also the way that she conducted her career. Without stripper like gestures, without press fanfares, without scandals and narcotic excesses she has survived with her little fan base :) Probably she'll never get her place in Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, because just like Linda Ronstadt she didn't write her biggest hits. But I lover her very much especially "Gravity's Rainbow" and "Wide Awake In Dreamland".

Stevie vs. Pat... there was definitely a friendly rivalry in the early 1980s regarding who was the queen of rock and roll (it sure as heck was not Tina Turner). Yes, a female rock solo artist was a bit of a rarity at the time, especially someone as successful as Pat. But she did play the game- she did the obvious things to attain stardom- wearing tight little outfits, wearing lots of makeup, making cheesy videos, utilizing external songwriters, etc. To her credit, there was a 2 - 3-year period during which she was a powerhouse- platinum albums, hit singles, arena tours, MTV ubiquity, etc. But sometime in the late 1980s, after her Wide Awake in Dreamland album, she just seemed to give up. Sure, she was still recording and touring... but she just didn't seem hungry for stardom, for the glamor... for rock and roll. I'm sure it was a natural evolution in her personal life, especially after getting married and having kids and all, but the bloom was off the rose. It's really hard to be enthusiastic about an artist when she herself doesn't seem all that enthusiastic. That's the difference between Pat and Stevie. Stevie has always aspired for greatness, even if she didn't always quite hit the mark. Stevie carefully curates every aspect of her career- her songs, her image, her performances... and she tries very hard to get her music heard. She's still hungry, even though she has more than sufficient reason to rest on her laurels. This is why Stevie plays Jones Beach while Pat plays B.B. King's Bar and Grill in Times Square.

LOL - word!

I have nothing against Pat - she was a fine artist in her day. A great voice with a few fine songs, but most of her music (IMO) was really more bubble gum covered up with guitars. She is nowhere near Stevie's stature.

I don't know which Bella Donna interview it was, but there was one radio show interview where Stevie talks about how country music already had successful women, but rock and roll didn't, aside from herself and Ann and Nancy Wilson, so it was important to her that she succeed in rock and roll. The interviewer then mentioned Pat, and Stevie's response was that Pat is good, but she's new.

(Looking back from where we are now, it's kind of funny to think there was a time when Pat was "new". )

Does anyone remember which interview this was?

Yeah I agree. Pat is tremendously talented with her voice, but her songs tended more toward bubblegum (she herself admits that she doesn't like "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" and regrets recording it because it's just so poppy.)

"Gravity's Rainbow" is such a great album!!! I also really liked her blues album "True Love", the song "Bloodshot Eyes" is soooo good :)

I like both of them the same, I think Stevie's lyrics hit home for me and grab me a little differently than Pat's songs. I've seen Pat in concert about 5 years ago and she sounds fantastic.

I must add that my affection for Pat Benatar stems also from a fact that her father comes from Poland. That is why her real name is Patrycja Andrzejewski. But to add a spice to the battle of rock divas of the 80's I think that Pat over the time hasn't lost as much of her voice as Stevie sadly has. Compare Benatar's voice from the time of release of "Gravity's Rainbow" (1993/1994) and Stevie's voice circa "Street Angel" era. There is no comparison. Thanks to healthy family life and constant touring Benatar's vocal chops have remained almost untouched, even if the quality of her material saldy has fallen. That is why it was Stevie who ruled the charts and critics with her 2001's "Trouble In Shangri-La" and not Benatar with her 2003's sappy "Go!". Of course many people can write Pat off as an 80's poppy act but remember that her 1979's debut "In The Heat of The Night" had set the world on fire two years prior to release of "Bella Donna". And to add more, Benatar was a solo artist right from the very beginining. She wasn't vocalist in the most popular band of the late 70's so I can imagine it was much harder for her to start career as a rock artist. Remember that Debbie Harry, Ann Wilson and Stevie were all band's vocalists. Ronstandt was singing country and Carly Simon (at that time) was heading for the disco mood. And yes I agree that tights and make up didn't hurt :) Cheesy videos? Yeah! It was the 80's. What about cheesiness of Stevie's "Stand Back", "I Can't Wait" or "If Anyone Falls"? And in the end, I can't agree more with a statement that "True Love" absolutely rocked (even if it was blues album). And it sold nearly 400.000 copies so I wonder why critics called it flop.

And now sales comparisons for both women:

Stevie:
1. Bella Donna (5 X Platinum)
2. Wild Heart (2 X Platinum)
3. Rock a Little (Platinum)
4. The Other Side of The Mirror (Platinum)
5. Timespace (Platinum)
6. Street Angel (Gold, but only 230.000 sold)
7. Enchanted (Gold)
8. Trouble In Shangri La (Gold)
9. Crystal Visions (~400.000)
10. In My Dreams (~300.000)

10 Top 40 singles

Pat:
1. In The Heat of The Night (Platinum-should be at least 2 X platinum considering it stayed on the charts for over two years and last certification came in 1980 when album was still in charts selling like hot cakes)
2. Crimes of Passion (4 X Platinum-again should be 5X platinum)
3. Get Nervous (Platinum and over a year on the chart!)
4. Live From Earth (Platinum)
5. Tropico (Platinum)
6. Seven The Hard Way (Gold)
7. Wide Awake In Dreamland (Gold)
8. Best Shots (Platinum, according to Billboard Archives it has sold nearly 1.400.000)
9. True Love (350.000)
10. Gravity's Rainbow (first big flop of her career and only 100.000 sold)
11. Innamorata (60.000)
12. Go! (30.000-her lamest record ever!)
13. Greatest Hits (gold, according to Billboard till 2007 it has sold more than 650.000 copies).

Benatar has also put out 15 Top 40 singles.

Pat is a classically trained Opera singer , there is no comparison , except maybe ..Mariah Carey.

as for sales .. I think in her day Pat outsold Stevie.

PB isn't really my style. I appreciate Stevie more from a folky singer-songwriter angle (which is how she presented herself in the late '90s when I first became interested in her) - I'm less impressed with her when she's covering Led Zeppelin and trying to be a rock & roll mama.

Pat's image is a little too slick and her music is a little too harsh for my ears.

I have to disagree with this...the ONLY reason I bought fleetwood mac albums was because of Stevies tracks (except for Lindseys Family Man NOT!:sorry:) when you add Stevies fans buying Fleetwood Mac Albums she would blow PB out of the water!

A fellow Bonnie Tyler fan? Very cool. :thumbsup:

In regards to the main topic: Pat's albums were always filled with bombastic, hook-laden, arena rock styled anthems, which got concert audiences on their feet and shaking their fists. She was also marketed as a "real tough cookie," with her pixie haircut, tight spandex pants & spiked heels.

Stevie, on the other hand, is in the singer/songwriter category. While she's had some straight-forward rock songs in her catalog, she's mainly known for introspective, emotional lyrics and mid-tempo tracks. And, in concert, she communes with her audiences, as opposed to rabble-rousing. She also has an ethereal, ultra-feminine, Bronté heroine persona.

Stevie & her music will grab you by the heart, while Pat will grab you by the balls. In larger numbers, the album-buying public tends to go for the latter. But, ultimately, I'd say Stevie is the "long distance winner" in this comparison.

11 if you count "Needles and Pins" :D

I always like Pat's tunes.I do agree Pats tunes are more hard rocking then Stevie's tunes.My sister loves PB .she went to the New Haven to see her at the taping of her tv concert.Directed by Marty Callner .Hum .That name rings a bell.Ding.Yes he directed Stevie HBO show and Red Rocks concert too.

Pat Benetar in New Haven.1983

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0231249/

Info on Marty Callner

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0130549/

I like Pat. I like her more now than I did in her heyday. Stevie has my heart though. :nod::D

This is what sums discussion up perfectly:)

I love Bonnie Tyler .Love "It's A Heartache" plus "Totally Eclipse" too.

Pat vs. Stevie is like comparing apples and oranges.

Both are great in their own way.

Love them both!

Was a huge Stevie fan before she went solo so I saw in my teenage mind Pat as her competition and did not like her much then.Pat Benatar has not had a top ten album on the Billboard charts since Get Nervous in 1982..Stevie had one last year and is still capable of having one so I guess that indicates who has stood the test of time.

I was a pretty big fan of Pat during her heyday & have all her albums from 79' through 1997. To her credit, along with her producers, husband & co-writers - Pat did churn & burn a lot of albums and hit singles from 1979-1985 - However with her "Seven The Hard Way" release in late 85' , She sorta lost her edge & it was the first sign of her popularity beginning to wane in the US. That album only went gold, the 1st single "Sex As A Weapon" peaked at #28 & "Le Bel Age" peaked at #54. Also her concert tour to promote that record also saw a steep decline in concert goer interest. I saw Pat in concert spring of 86' and the arena was barely half-full:cool:

Meanwhile Rock A Little was released at the same time and had a HUGE top 5 hit single in "Talk To Me" & another big top 20 song in "I Cant Wait" & her subsequent RAL tour saw many cities sell out, while RAL easily went Platinum. Plus Stevie forged ahead with TITN & OSOTM - which began Stevie's popularity decline. But then 7 yrs. later with The Dance, the Phoenix arose, even more influential and heralded than ever before.

So suffice to say, while I completely respect & still am a fan of Pat's career and achievements, she in no way is as influential or regarded in the same echelon as Stevie Nicks. Yes, Fleetwood Mac adds much to Stevie's mythos & stature, but Stevie's influence, style & songwriting, with or without FM, have had more pop/rock cultural impact without question! And Stevie's last 2 superb solo album releases have restored Stevie back into Billboards Top 10 album charts. All the while, Stevie has achieved accolades the last 10 years or more, proving her longevity & popularity are not without justice and merit.

I agree. Problem with Benatar is that she was iconic only in the begining of her career when she was determined to show the world that woman without a band can be successful as a rock artist. When she released "Tropico" it was the first sign that the formula had already burned out. I know that "We Belong" was huge Top 10 hit but on the other hand I've always felt that this particular song could have been sung by any given artist of that time. It was Pop not Rock song and the more Pat seperated herself from Rock realm the less successful she was. In 1985 people didn't want to listen to Pat's take on Madonna or Cyndi Lauper's style, that is why "Sex as a Weapon" which was written by hitmaker Billy Steinberg didn't help to rise her sales again. And I think that partially it was also the reason why "Rock a Little" album met with colder responses from Stevie's fans. So, yes I agree that Benatar lost her iconic status somewhere in the middle of the 80's. Yet still I give her credit for being one of the first solo female rockers that showed us that even with all leotards and spandex invloved rock was definately not only man's world and for this alone she should be recognized :)

I TOTALLY agree.

I also think Stevie suffered somehow with the critics due to the content of her songs.... most were men and they just didn't get the romance, the mystical quality to her songs, the angels and fairies and moons.... because, of course, they got fixated on those words and not on the meaning of them and the actual story she was trying to tell. Pure gender-bias if you ask me.

Pat, on the other hand, was cute, fiery, swaggered, and she talked "like a man" in her songs more than Stevie ever did.... and those critics (men) understood that better.

at the same time, Stevie could at times be a little... well....disconnected.... from reality in some of her interviews, whereas Pat seemed very down-to-earth and aware of the kinds of realities we normal folk deal with on a daily basis. You got the sense Pat probably knew the cost of a loaf of bread, whereas Stevie had "people" who did that sort of thing for her and hadn't seen the inside of a Safeway in years. Not that this bothers me, mind you, but it all sort of adds up to why there is still this sort of dismissal of Stevie by a lot of the critics and such....which is pure bs because really, do you think Robert Plant or Mick Jagger has any kind of CLUE what life for us non-rock stars is like??

Somehow I missed this Johnnystew, you said it beautifully!

Her attitude was closer to Chris McVie than to Stevie Nicks. Pat & Christine dressed up for the show, but really didn't have that lifelong hunger for writing songs & giving shows. They both kept their careers separate from their "real" lives. Stevie gave her life over to her career so that her life became her career.

That's why I got so bored early on with Rickie Lee Jones (who I felt was such an excellent lyricist). Some of these people seem to deliberately sabotage their own careers. It's one thing to take a stand against playing to the gallery--the cheap seats--all the time. But it's another when every move you make seems willfully to alienate every last vestige of audience you ever had. Your own lack of interest in your craft infects your fans, sooner or later.

I agree too. Didn't she originally start as an opera singer or something? Anyway, I will be so happy never to hear "Love Is A Battlefield" ever again. I swear every time I hear it, it takes a year out of my life.

All that said, I love "Hell Is For Children".

You left off my 2nd favorite Pat album, Precious Time! :eek: ;)

This was also the album that battled it out with Bella Donna on the charts.

Ooops! I really forgot about it. Of course it was her only US #1 album and was certified double platinum, but I think it has sold like 3 million copies or more with two melodramatic hit singles "Promises in The Dark" (my all time favourite Benatar's song) and "Fire And Ice". When I hear her singing these two gems it's like...well...she sings like she was on the verge of crying or something...

I read Pat's book and she frankly talks about how the label held the recording contract over her head with regards to the clause that stated they could demand a new album and tour every 9 months. Her last hit single was "All Fired Up" whuich cracked to the Billboard top 40. The tour was a bust as she comments in her book about the over kill in terms of touring so often that people were tired of her so when allot of shows on that tour didn't sell well they ended up canceling the tour.

I wish she would record a new album but she isn't interested. One thing that did ug me about the book was that she talks about how the label didn't think it would be possible for her to tour only in the summer (Like she has for the past 10 years) and have it be a success. She claims that it has been a success, and while I am sure it has on some levels I look at the bulk of the shows and they are in very small towns some of which I have not heard off before. Long gone are the days of her selling out big arena's

Also while Pat my have won 4 Grammy's I think Stevie is more respected in the industry for her songwriting vs Pat not writing allot of her song's. I still think Pat is great but Stevie is my favorite of the two artists.

I hope that we may see them both in the Hall of Fame but I don't think that will happen anytime soon.

Oh... one thing that annoys me about Pat Benatar...

Why does she give her husband/guitarist Neil Giraldo equal billing? Whenever I see an advertisement for a Pat Benatar concert, it's always "Pat Benatar & Neil Giraldo in Concert." Not "special guest" or "featuring." His name is up there next to hers in the same font size and everything. Was I asleep when Neil Giraldo suddenly became a headline attraction? :shrug: Okay, Pat, I understand you're throwing your (underachieving) husband a bone, and you're trying to give him a name for himself. But this is so condescending! He's a big boy; he should be more than able to deal with being "Mr. Benatar."

http://www.ddcaz.com/files/uploads/i...ENATAR-WEB.jpg

I'm quite surprised and glad that the responses here have all been pretty even-keeled (usually when you have a your-artist-vs-another-artist debate in a forum, the visiting artist is summarily massacred).

Benatar actually did write a lot of her songs, but being of the feisty hard-rock variety rather than the haunting heartfelt type, those songs don't still speak to people like Stevie's songs do. From Stevie's songs, you can tell she's been visited by heartache and misery, and therefore you feel commiserated with. Pat's songs were good for fast-and-furious um, furiousness...and that's sort of a fleeting emotion. It's certainly not a touchstone you go back to 20 years later.

Benatar still gets played on rock radio, and she actually has played Jones Beach (almost every time she goes out) and still fills big arenas (though not The Greek, where I've seen Stevie). She and Stevie both play smaller clubs in addition to stadiums (I saw Stevie just three months ago at a tiny Orange County venue called the Grove). I don't know the logistics of why one would play a club here and a stadium there, but...so it is.

And Pat totally did lose interest in the grindstone: She got married and was told by the record company to hide it. She got pregnant and was told by her record company to hide it. She chose a photo for her 4th album and was told to re-shoot it. She went to war with them and was just...over it. Reading her book, you find that she just wanted to prove she could rock hard and yet still be feminine and sexy, and she'd done that. She says she's much happier now just touring and releasing through licensors without the constant meddling of a record company...but then she had a really horrible record company.

Here's Stevie on Pat (skip to 2:00):



And to whomever mentioned the Oprah extras...where can I see that?

LOL! This is the wrong take on it, completely. Giraldo was there from the beginning and is not considered an underachiever by any standard. He was her musical director from the beginning, the one who put her band together, her producer from album 2 onward (because Keith Olsen did nothing) and her teammate against the record company when they went to war against Chrysalis. He invented the weird rhythm behind "Love Is A Battlefield" (which was originally a mid-tempo ballad) and co-wrote many of her songs. They called their 3-CD retrospective "Synchronistic Wanderings" because it was their vision together to sound like a female-led Rawk Band (not just a frontwoman and a backup studio band) and his highly regarded playing and production achieved that. He's done outside production as well and is very well respected. One of the main themes of her book is to share the credit that he so richly deserves.



She wants to have a Christmas album done for the 2012 holiday season. She's also working on another book -- this one a fictional piece about, um, the second coming!

To be honest for me it's always been Pat Benatar and Neil Giraldo. Ever since her debut album he's been her main producer, guitarist and songwriter. Without him there would be no Benatar sound at all. I've got their DVD "Summer Vacation Tour" and must say that Neil brought the house down with all his adventurous guitar solos. I would also add Myron Grombacher to account, their former drummer who was responsible for driving beats of some her best songs. And no matter if Benatar ever decides to go back to studio again, I am sure that she will be always remembered as one of the key female rockers of the 80's.