Stevie and Joni and Jackson
 

There was a mention in one of the Moonlight threads and in another thread about Joni Mitchell and Jackson Browne and Sevie Nicks. I’m reading a book right now called Girls Like Us about Carole King, Joni Mitchell and Carly Simon. Back in the late 60s and early 70s, apparently Joni Mitchell was a big deal. (Of course her living with Graham Nash of Crosby, Stills and Nash probably helped.) I only know her song Help Me and of course, Both Sides Now and Chelsea Morning, which Judy Collins made into hits. At that time I think Stevie Nicks would have been listening to Joni Mitchell. Apparently every other rock and roll person was. And Fleetwood Mac has nothing on these people. Joni Mitchell was involved with Jackson Browne who was hanging around with the Eagles and Linda Ronstadt, who had a long term relationship with J.D. Souther, who also had a relationship with Joni Mitchell. Joni Mitchell was also involved with James Taylor, who we all know was married to Carly Simon and he was very good friends with Carole King, though I don’t think there was ever anything besides friendship between Carole King and James Taylor. Russ Kunkel played with Linda Ronstadt, Joni Mitchell, Carole King, Carly Simon and James Taylor, and at one point was engaged to Carly Simon. Carly Simon and Joni Mitchell both had a relationship with Warren Beatty. I could go on, but I think I’ve confused everyone enough. I know I sure am. Talk about embarrassing situations…

~Maria

Yeah, Stevie's talked quite a bit about listening to Joni and being influenced by her etc.

I guess you know Stevie went out with JD Souther and a couple of the Eagles--actually, there's quite a few connections throughout the list of people you mentioned above. :laugh:

Joni is in a league of her own. She has a musical sophistication and capability way beyond Stevie. Don't mistake that as slight against Stevie. They are each unique and wonderful in their own realms.

Well, I do think there is really only one Female ARTIST in all of music and that would be Joni. However, I believe Joni's light didn't last very long. Her 70s stuff was stellar, but she seemed to become disinterested. Stevie is a craftsman, definitely a visionary. But Joni's good stuff came from a different place—a much deeper place. A Case of You is just phenominal.

Joni
 

I dont agree. Joni was just so arrogant. I remember reading a Rolling Stone cover story on her in the late seventies-what a crock. You guys think Stevie took herself seriously. She had nothing on Joni!

Short lived is right. Stevie has outlasted her in all ways. At 63, she just released her most amazing music-while being true to herself-and is still performing onstage.

Joni? She looks like someone's retired grandmother!

That was a scary picture someone posted
of Bonnie, Jane and Joni standing in line
at a casino buffet.

Not Kate Bush?! Iris Dement?! Laura Nyro?!

I just love this quote from Joni about Bob Dylan. I wonder how Stevie would feel about Joni dissin' Bob. Maybe she would be the only one who could say "that" to Bob Dylan...:laugh: Sorry, Linds.

"Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he and I." - Joni Mitchell, LA Times 2010.

Bob Dylan is a terrible singer with a long history of artistic theft. He's a brand that his label helped to build by acquiring material - written by others - that could be credited to him. Or he just swiped the work of obscure artists/poets (it was proven he stole copious material from Henry Timrod) or he appropriated long passages from traditional material without providing credit. Joni is one of many respected individuals that have declared Dylan to be a fraud. Just recently, the art world rallied against his latest act of theft. He claimed his recent exhibit of paintings captured "firsthand depictions of people, street scenes, architecture and landscape" but they weren't first hand. He copied every one of them from photographs taken by a handful of artists.
And don't get me started on his so-called voice which is incapable of even enunciating his so-called great lyrics.

I really think any attempt at any comparison between Stevie and Joni is utterly futile. It's just like comparing giraffes with Mini Coopers; there is just no rhyme or reason. Yes, Joni has come across judgmental and downright bitter in interviews, but she has also been pretty much spot on in terms of her views on politics and justice; her lyrics have been eerily prescient. One thing you can't deny is that Joni has always spoken her mind and has never bowed down to peer pressure or political correctness. She has never played the system and she has never done anything that even remotely resembles "selling out" (okay, I will conveniently cast my gaze away from Chalkmark in a Rainstorm for the moment). I also hold Stevie in high regard for her integrity as an artist; however, I do get the sense that she is always "treading with gossamer wings" in order to maintain her aura of tranquility. And that pretty much explains why Stevie has never ever said a political thing in her life (publicly, that is).

But strictly in terms of comparing career metrics, Joni has, by far, had a much longer and more prolific solo career than Stevie. Joni's first and last studio albums were released 38 years apart, which is identical to Stevie's first/last album spread (counting her band/duo albums). However, Joni has released 18 studio albums (one of them double) plus a smattering of live albums and compilations. Stevie has only released 7 studio albums and one-third of another 7 albums with Fleetwood Mac and half of BN. The breadth of Joni's career is more staggering as well - from folk to pop to rock to jazz to standards, versus Stevie's pop-country-rock sound. I am not downplaying Stevie's greatness at all. My point is that nobody can say that Joni hasn't had a phenomenally long, prolific, rewarding career.

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous and I LOVE Joni Mitchell. To say that she is the only female ARTIST is extremely sexist. Would you say that about a man? And just what are the criteria of a true artist? Please :rolleyes:.

This is subjective. And therefore not fair to state as a fact.

Joni is like a well-prepared Sunday roast - satisfying, nutritious and could keep me going for days.

Stevie is a massive strawberry pavlova that I want to push my face into and inhale till I'm sick.

Agree 100% with your first statement. Love the way you phrased it too.

I'm interested in why you think CIAR could be seen as JM selling out? I don't have a view on it, just wondering why you think that?

Loz

Two words: Billy Idol. :eek:

:lol:

I was actually living in Canada when CMIAR came out and I taped an interview Joni did with CBC in which she talked about why she worked with people like him and Peter Gabriel on that record. She used a painting analogy and said their voices were the aural equivalent of colours on canvas. I listened to that interview over and over, and as I type this I can hear her beautiful Canadian accent so clearly, the way she said 'they're like colours'.

I still listen to her version of 'Corrina, Corrina' over all others.

Sorry for going OT, but while I have I might as well ask: do you ever go on the official Joni website forums?

I think CIAR is actually quite good...yes, the production is very dated with those heavy drums and snyths but I think it's by far the very best of her 3 1980's albums. Wild Things Run Fast and Dog Eat Dog are beyond dreadful. Of all Joni's albums (and I own them all), those two I never play...ever. I think she really returned to form in the 90's and even her last release, Shine, is excellent...pity her voice is shot beyond repair.

I pretty much agree. I never took to Turbulent Indigo, for some reason, but Shine is good. My favourite of her later stuff is Night Ride Home. I listen to that, Court and Spark, and Hejira most of all. What an incredible talent. :nod:

yeah, Turbulent Indigo is kinda tough...I love the lyrics but it's very dark. My favorite early records are Hejira, For the Roses, and Ladies of the Canyon. The "Painting with Words & Music" DVD from 98 is fantastic!!

Did she?! Is there much info out there about this? When was this? It's not surprising news considering her Eagles connections but I like this more because I think JD Souther is brilliant. The Fast One, Border Town (Souther-Hillman-Furay band), Faithless Love, Say You Will (with Linda Ronstadt)... great stuff.

JD in connection with Stevie is mentioned in the conversation tapes made by Carol Ann Harris and Sara Recor/Fleetwood. Can't recall what they say, exactly. But Sara Fleetwood has confirmed that the 'undoing the laces' line in 'Sara' is about JD.

Stevie herself has said in an interview that she dated him, too. Again, I'm useless, as I can't point you to the interview. Sorry. Maybe someone else can?

Here's a quote, courtesy of "In Her Own Words":


Well, when Lindsey and I broke up during Rumours , I started going out with Don Henley. And you know, I was like the biggest Eagles fan of life. And we went out, on and off, for about two years. He was really cute, and he was elegant. ...He is sexy. He's such an interesting guy. Here's one thing that Don did that freaked my band out so much. We're all in Miami, Fleetwood Mac and the Eagles. They're recording at this gorgeous house they'd rented on the water. It's totally romantic. It's pink. It's like Mar-a-Lago. Anyway, he sends a limousine driver over to our hotel with a box of presents for me, and they're delivered right into the breakfast room where everyone's eating. There's a stereo, a bunch of fabulous records. There's incredible flowers and fruits, beautiful.. The limousine driver is taking all this out onto the table and I'm going, Oh, please, please, this is not going to go down well. And they want to know who it's from. And Lindsey is not happy. So I started going out with him. And this is not popular. Sure, Lindsey and I are totally broken up, I have every right in the world to go out with people, but...I spend most of my time with the band, and it's not real conducive to having a relationship. So, I went out with Don for awhile. I went out with [Eagles songwriter] J.D. Souther for awhile. We had an incredible time.


http://lindaronstadt.de/tvbofjdsouther.jpg

..And then I fell in love with Mick [Fleetwood]. And that went on for two years. Never in a million years could you have told me that would happen. That was the biggest surprise. Mick is definitely one of my great, great loves. [How was that between Lindsey and Mick?] That was not good. That was not good for anybody else in the band. Everybody was so angry, because Mick was married. To a wonderful girl and he had two wonderful children, and I was horrified. I loved these people. I loved his family. So it couldn't have possibly worked out. And it didn't. It just couldn't.
~Stevie Nicks, Spin, October, 1997


Here's a good article on JD if you want to know more about him:
http://www.debbiekruger.com/writer/f...jdsouther.html

See, I think Wild Things is the best of Joni's '80s albums. She tends to get sanctimonious when she writes socially conscious lyrics: for example, "The Three Great Stimulants" from Dog Eat Dog is just so over-the-top, I can hardly bear to listen to it. I don't like the production on it or Chalk Mark, which I think has some rather silly songs on it).

Night Ride Home and Turbulent Indigo (esp. the latter) are much better. Taming the Tiger has its moments (lots of people hate the guitar she used on that album, but I love it; tho it would've gotten old fast if she'd used it on subsequent albums).

I enjoyed BSN and Travelogue quite a bit, but I never listen to Shine anymore. She went back into Dog Eat Dog territory with the sanctimonious lyrics, although I like the production much better.

I don't care much for Joni's first 3 albums, altho Ladies of the Canyon is a helluva lot better than the first two. I've never been able to get into For the Roses and I can't for the life of me understand why people like it so much. Court & Spark, Summer Lawns, and Hejira are her best work, IMO.

No way. BLUE is by far her best work.

Blue is a classic, and one of my favorites, but I like the later jazzier stuff better.

My favourite Joni albums are Court and Spark, Blue and Hejira (such an underrated album). Dog Eat Dog is horrible! I tried with it but...ughhh. no. I quite like Chalkmark In A Rainstorm though, including Dancin' Clown!

I just finished Girls LIke Us and loved it! I started listening to Joni Mitchell, and I love Clouds and Court and Spark. I agree, For the Roses is really hard to get into. My favorite little anecdote in the book is about Carly and Joni meeting over an arranged lunch, and Linda Ronstadt was brought along to ease the tension. It says she ended up eating everyone's leftovers, hahaha. But just the thought of those three great talents at lunch together is pretty amazing.

It's sad to see these artists never get radio airplay no more.My late sister liked Joni Mitchell.

I like For The Roses but yes, it took me a while. Linda was brought along to ease the tension?! I guess that must have been before the infamous incident where JD cheated on her with Joni... which Linda discovered when she got home one morning to find Joni leaving her and JD'S house in the Canyon! :( Of course that story may not be true but I've read it in many different sources over the years.

Another great book on the whole LA Laurel Canyon scene, Joni, Carly etc.. is Barney Hoskins's Hotel California. It was also turned into an excellent BBC documentary but the book is superb.