The Ledge - Innocent(?) man to be executed in 19 hours

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Innocent(?) man to be executed in 19 hours

http://i54.tinypic.com/213jh2w.jpg
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/op...w.html?_r=1&hp
The Savannah police contaminated the memories of four witnesses by re-enacting the crime with them present so that their individual perceptions were turned into a group one. The police showed some of the witnesses Mr. Davis’s photograph even before the lineup. His lineup picture was set apart by a different background. The lineup was also administered by a police officer involved in the investigation, increasing the potential for influencing the witnesses.
~
Seven of nine witnesses against Mr. Davis recanted after trial. Six said the police threatened them if they did not identify Mr. Davis. The man who first told the police that Mr. Davis was the shooter later confessed to the crime. There are other reasons to doubt Mr. Davis’s guilt: There was no physical evidence linking him to the crime introduced at trial, and new ballistics evidence broke the link between him and a previous shooting that provided the motive for his conviction.

see also
http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...4103-1,00.html

Isn't it horrific?

The death penalty is racist, classist, and barbaric. Americans should be ashamed that our court system is about to send this (very likely) innocent man to his death. I can't stand it.

I guess the Amnesty International petition was denied then?

This is sad.

In any case, there is inconclusive evidence and conflicting witness accounts etc... he shouldn't be getting death penalty.

Of course none of us know of his innocence or not.
But one must consider the victim's family. I'm sure
they have different feelings on this from us who only
read or hear about this verdict from the internet or TV.

To consider it a racial commentary on the South is
a fallacy. My Uncle who was a Senator for the State
of Alabama was killed by a man who was on a "work
release" type program. The man was arrested for
drunk driving, and then found out to be driving my
Uncle's car. When the Police arrived at my Uncle's
home they found him dead. He'd been hit in the head,
and left to die. The man responsible for this was convicted
and sentenced to death. Due to a change in Alabama's
capital punishment laws the man was retried and set
free. They could not find the man's original hand written
statement. And that was supposedly why the man got
off. The man who was released was black.

You can imagine how my family feels about this lack
of justice. All I ask is to remember the victims too.

But if there's reasonable doubt at all... and it sounds like there's no forensic evidence... then give the guy jail for the rest of his life. What that means is he yet has time to prove his innocence. The death penalty doesn't allow for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid (Post 1019037)

First, I'm sorry for your loss.

This is certainly controversial, and I don't mean to sound unsympathetic, but I don't think it's for the family of the victim to determine justice. Clouded by grief, they may want to see the murderer die. But a judge's job is not to make theme feel better--it's to uphold justice.
Personally, I don't think killing a person is ever just.

Quote:

To consider it a racial commentary on the South is
a fallacy. My Uncle who was a Senator for the State
of Alabama was killed by a man who was on a "work
release" type program. The man was arrested for
drunk driving, and then found out to be driving my
Uncle's car. When the Police arrived at my Uncle's
home they found him dead. He'd been hit in the head,
and left to die. The man responsible for this was convicted
and sentenced to death. Due to a change in Alabama's
capital punishment laws the man was retried and set
free. They could not find the man's original hand written
statement. And that was supposedly why the man got
off. The man who was released was black.

You can imagine how my family feels about this lack
of justice. All I ask is to remember the victims too.

Black people commit murder sometimes. White people commit murder sometimes. Duh.

I say the death penalty is racist because it's more likely to send black murderers to their deaths than white murderers.
I also say it's racist because while half of the victims of murder in the United States are African American, 85 percent of the people on death row are there for killing a Caucasian. Why is it a greater crime to kill a white person?

I can't say with certainty that this man wouldn't have mere hours to live if he were a white lady. But an individual's color, class and gender have a massive impact on the justice he or she will receive, and that seems profoundly wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mylittledemon (Post 1019043)

But if there's reasonable doubt at all... and it sounds like there's no forensic evidence... then give the guy jail for the rest of his life. What that means is he yet has time to prove his innocence. The death penalty doesn't allow for that.

If there is reasonable doubt at all, then the conviction should be thrown out.

Well that too, Karma. I wonder if this guy has "used up" all his appeals?

The exucution is delayed while the Supreme Court reviews. Live coverage here.

Execution began at 10:53, Troy Davis was pronounced dead at 11:08.

He declared his innocence until the end, telling the Macphail family that he was not responsible for the death of their father, son, brother, that they should continue to dig deeper into the case and find out the truth. His last words were, "To those about to take my life, may God have mercy on your soul, may God bless your soul."

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid (Post 1019037)

So, we should drag an innocent person off the street, proclaim him the murderer, and execute him just to make the family feel better?

Another perspective:

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2011-09-21.html

Quote:

It's nearly impossible to receive a death sentence these days -- unless you do something completely crazy like shoot a cop in full view of dozens of witnesses in a Burger King parking lot, only a few hours after shooting at a passing car while exiting a party.

That's what Troy Davis did in August 1989. Davis is the media's current baby seal of death row.

After a two-week trial with 34 witnesses for the state and six witnesses for the defense, the jury of seven blacks and five whites took less than two hours to convict Davis of Officer Mark MacPhail's murder, as well as various other crimes. Two days later, the jury sentenced Davis to death.

Now, a brisk 22 years after Davis murdered Officer MacPhail, his sentence will finally be administered this week -- barring any more of the legal shenanigans that have kept taxpayers on the hook for Davis' room and board for the past two decades.

(The average time on death row is 14 years. Then liberals turn around and triumphantly claim the death penalty doesn't have any noticeable deterrent effect. As the kids say: Duh.)

It has been claimed -- in The New York Times and Time magazine, for example -- that there was no "physical evidence" connecting Davis to the crimes that night.

Davis pulled out a gun and shot two strangers in public. What "physical evidence" were they expecting? No houses were broken into, no cars stolen, no rapes or fistfights accompanied the shootings. Where exactly would you look for DNA? And to prove what?

I suppose it would be nice if the shell casings from both shootings that night matched. Oh wait -- they did. That's "physical evidence."

It's true that the bulk of the evidence against Davis was eyewitness testimony. That tends to happen when you shoot someone in a busy Burger King parking lot.

Eyewitness testimony, like all evidence tending to show guilt, has gotten a bad name recently, but the "eyewitness" testimony in this case did not consist simply of strangers trying to distinguish one tall black man from another. For one thing, several of the eyewitnesses knew Davis personally.

The bulk of the eyewitness testimony established the following:

Two tall, young black men were harassing a vagrant in the Burger King parking lot, one in a yellow shirt and the other in a white Batman shirt. The one in the white shirt used a brown revolver to pistol-whip the vagrant. When a cop yelled at them to stop, the man in the white shirt ran, then wheeled around and shot the cop, walked over to his body and shot him again, smiling.

Some eyewitnesses described the shooter as wearing a white shirt, some said it was a white shirt with writing, and some identified it specifically as a white Batman shirt. Not one witness said the man in the yellow shirt pistol-whipped the vagrant or shot the cop.

Several of Davis' friends testified -- without recantation -- that he was the one in a white shirt. Several eyewitnesses, both acquaintances and strangers, specifically identified Davis as the one who shot Officer MacPhail.

Now the media claim that seven of the nine witnesses against Davis at trial have recanted.

First of all, the state presented 34 witnesses against Davis -- not nine -- which should give you some idea of how punctilious the media are about their facts in death penalty cases.

Among the witnesses who did not recant a word of their testimony against Davis were three members of the Air Force, who saw the shooting from their van in the Burger King drive-in lane. The airman who saw events clearly enough to positively identify Davis as the shooter explained on cross-examination, "You don't forget someone that stands over and shoots someone."

Recanted testimony is the least believable evidence since it proves only that defense lawyers managed to pressure some witnesses to alter their testimony, conveniently after the trial has ended. Even criminal lobbyist Justice William Brennan ridiculed post-trial recantations.

Three recantations were from friends of Davis, making minor or completely unbelievable modifications to their trial testimony. For example, one said he was no longer sure he saw Davis shoot the cop, even though he was five feet away at the time. His remaining testimony still implicated Davis.

One alleged recantation, from the vagrant's girlfriend (since deceased), wasn't a recantation at all, but rather reiterated all relevant parts of her trial testimony, which included a direct identification of Davis as the shooter.

Only two of the seven alleged "recantations" (out of 34 witnesses) actually recanted anything of value -- and those two affidavits were discounted by the court because Davis refused to allow the affiants to testify at the post-trial evidentiary hearing, even though one was seated right outside the courtroom, waiting to appear.

The court specifically warned Davis that his refusal to call his only two genuinely recanting witnesses would make their affidavits worthless. But Davis still refused to call them -- suggesting, as the court said, that their lawyer-drafted affidavits would not have held up under cross-examination.

With death penalty opponents so fixated on Davis' race -- he's black -- it ought to be noted that all the above witnesses are themselves African-American. The first man Davis shot in the car that night was African-American.

I notice that the people so anxious to return this sociopathic cop-killer to the street don't live in his neighborhood.

Seven of the nine witnesses recanted, the eight is dead and the ninth is the alleged true perp. One of the witnesses was threatened after recanting and has gone into hiding.
While I think Troy Davis was up to no good that night, I think there are compelling reasons to take another look at his case. It's unfortunate that no one could find a convincing enough legal precedent to get him a new trial. There were rumours that he was strapped to a gurney the entire time the Supreme Court debated last night.
I do hope his legal team continues to dig for answers in this case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid (Post 1019037)

. My Uncle who was a Senator for the State
of Alabama was killed by a man who was on a "work
release" type program.

Wikipedia fails to list any murder of an Alabama Senator. :sorry:

I would never condone the death penalty, no matter what the crime. It's barbaric, draconian and archaic. The only true punishment is to be left in prison to truly live with what they have done, of course for the time frame that the crime calls for. The death penalty relies on the idea that the person would be facing God or Hell when they died. That's no punishment. If there is a God, then they'll do so in due time. We shouldn't have the right to play God and decide for ourselves that somebody needs to die. Even if they did take a life. We're just lowering ourselves to their standards, for which they were punished.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn (Post 1019423)

Wikipedia fails to list any murder of an Alabama Senator. :sorry:

I lol at the idea of Wikipedia being deemed a fitting source of information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77 (Post 1019420)

Another perspective:

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2011-09-21.html

Gah. Really?
Anyhoo, no one said Davis should walk, just that he shouldn't be put to death if seven of the nine witnesses recanted, all seven saying their stories had been coerced by investigators.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Springs (Post 1019424)

I lol at the idea of Wikipedia being deemed a fitting source of information.

Well then pick your source and find any news that a Senator from Alabama has been murdered by a black man on work release. That's pretty specific info that should be easy to find right? :shrug:

While I understand the need for justice - and I support our justice system entirely, it seems pretty clear that this case was mishandled. Witnesses were coerced and the investigation used tactics that are at best underhanded, and at worst downright criminal.

Ultimately it is still possible that Troy Davis is (was?) guilty, but for me that's not the issue I am bothered by; it's more upsetting to me that a man was essentially murdered at the hands of our government for a crime that he possibly did not commit.

I suppose the ultimate hypocrisy here is that it's always the most "christian" populations (American South) that seem the most eager and willing to enforce the death penalty, in spite of the teachings of the man/son of God they claim to hold in highest regard.

I am not a Christian or even a religious person, but even I have the foresight to sometimes ask myself "What would Jesus do?" If only his supposed followers would more often do the same... Inevitably I will have offended someone with my comments on this matter, but I can live with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn (Post 1019423)

Wikipedia fails to list any murder of an Alabama Senator. :sorry:

How dare you. That's the lowest post I've ever
seen on the Ledge. I didn't post his name because
I like my privacy here. But since my Uncle's last
name is different from mine here you go.

The Honorable Roland Cooper, former State
Senator for Alabama and Judge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid (Post 1019472)

http://www.eji.org/eji/files/alabamasexonerated.pdf

^ Proof if you need it, lol. Thus why I don't trust Wikipedia. This came up in a couple of moments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid (Post 1019472)

I'm sorry. It must be especially difficult for you watching this case when the alleged perpetrator in your uncle's case was sentenced to death and then acquitted.
I certainly don't want to bash Officer McPhail's family. His mother has said that this execution needed to continue because she needed closure. What if it turns out Davis isn't the shooter? Is there still closure?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Springs (Post 1019474)

http://www.eji.org/eji/files/alabamasexonerated.pdf

^ Proof if you need it, lol. Thus why I don't trust Wikipedia. This came up in a couple of moments.

And yet it took you four hours to post it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn (Post 1019476)

And yet it took you four hours to post it.

Because I was working, and thus not ferreting through the internet. Ya know, doing other things besides The Ledge :shrug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn (Post 1019475)

I'm sorry. It must be especially difficult for you watching this case when the alleged perpetrator in your uncle's case sentenced to death and then acquitted.
I certainly don't want to bash Officer McPhail's family. His mother has said that this execution needed to continue because she needed closure. What if it turns out Davis isn't the shooter? Is there still closure.

Though my opinion is worth diddly squat, I really don't believe that death brings any closure. Especially when there is such a glaring grey area. Who knows how she'll feel if it turns out he was innocent. The guilt would be there to add to an already existing grief. I don't believe in such "final" punishments, with no room to change minds.

That the death penalty even exists in this country in 2011 is an embarrasment .While watching the Republican candidates 'Tea Party" debate and hearing the audience cheer when Rick Perry proudly mentioned the number of people he had put to death in TexasI became nauseous.This same group also cheered and applauded at the prospect of a 30 year old dying because he did not have health insurance for 6 months.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77 (Post 1019420)

Another perspective:

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2011-09-21.html

...from a biased, deplorable human being.

And though I'm ashamed to be part of the same breed of mammal as she is, I'd still defend her as much as all the rest if she were on death row, since murder is wrong whether it's an individual or a government committing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3 (Post 1019506)

^This.

Anywho, while we are on the topic of the death penalty, anyone here seen The Life Of David Gale? Probably my favorite movie ever. You should def check it out.

Some posts have mentioned the support from the Christian right for the death penalty, but what truly stuns me is the support from prominent Dems. Obama, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Gore--all of our most recent serious presidential candidates have been pro-death penalty. Boggles the mind that none of these people have a problem with such a policy. BombaySaphires is right--the death penalty is an embarrassment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mezzoforte (Post 1019566)

I have noticed this as well, and I'll share what I think about it.

I don't believe any of those you mentioned truly support the death penalty. In the same way that I do not believe Obama is truly opposed to gay marriage, or Bush Jr. was anti-gay marriage, or John McCain either. Americans are beyond fickle when it comes to politics, and candidates have to say certain things to woo voters, even if those things are not necessarily what they want to say. Hard-line conservatives and far-left liberals alone cannot elect anyone - they require that huge pool of swing voters in the middle that swing back and forth between parties, choosing the candidate that they feel will best preserve their day-to-day comfort zone. Had Bush said he supported marriage equality, he could not have been elected. Had Obama said he was opposed to the death penalty, he could not have been elected.

This is just my opinion. :shrug: Deep down inside, behind closed doors, I think most politicians are just normal people who have a work persona they have to put on every day to get the job done. Please take note that I said 'most', because there are definitely some crazies out there. :laugh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn (Post 1019475)

I'm sorry. It must be especially difficult for you watching this case when the alleged perpetrator in your uncle's case was sentenced to death and then acquitted.

I appreciate you saying that.

The man that was acquitted in murdering my Uncle Roland
was set free to do as he pleased. And with his freedom he
decided to move to another state and rape a woman.
He also commited other crimes. This time he was sentenced
to years in jail.

I do believe in capital punishment. It's an unfortunate necessity.
I actually believe life in prison without a chance for parol is a
worse sentence than death.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid (Post 1019776)

I can't believe he got a new trial and was acquitted. I was going to ask what happened to this guy. Is he still alive?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn (Post 1019795)

I can't believe he got a new trial and was acquitted. I was going to ask what happened to this guy. Is he still alive?

I honestly don't know what happened to him after he
was sentenced. It's a difficult subject.