Re: The "Septenber" Release Date
 

Has it ever been confirmed if this is when the label is putting out SWS, or, if he doesn't have a label deal in place by then, that's when LB will be releasing it himself?

We don't have any real confirmation, just continued reports that it's coming out in September.

September? Please. When have Lindsey's albums ever come out when he says or intends.
More likely something along these lines will happen:

"Seeds We Sow" is a tentative title for what will become a new Mac album in 2012, with some other name. Lindsey will produce it and it will be a minor hit record, trending on Billboard briefly but ultimately selling low with no hit singles and viewed overall as a commercial disappointment, not dissimilar to Tusk. There'll be a brief world tour, mostly focusing on the 70's era FM, Lindsey and Stevie will clash, and they won't make another record.

Oh, sorry, that was 'Say You Will', not Lindsey's new album. :sorry: :laugh:

Who knows what'll actually happen with this one, really. Hopefully it's not the genesis of another FM record, like has happened so many times before, I'd rather he gets his weird creative stuff on his own album and go more mainstream with the Mac. Stevie has already done this with her album.

I actually hope this isnt a repeat of SYW, as much as I want a new Mac album.

this is the exact scenario that would happen if LB is still with WB. but i am hoping that all this talk about him taking things in his own hands is not just empty talk, and that it will really happen.

I really don't get why people are still hoping he will work something out with WB (i'm looking at you CADreaming;)), when it seems that all WBs did for his solo carrier in the last 15 years is held it back.

LB did say at the 4/22 concert that the album will come out in september, one way or the other, followed by the tour. considering that we already have one legitimate tour date in september, i'm choosing to belive that means album is definitely coming out in september (or few days after that boston date, if it's the first one of the tour - might be some dates before that too, right?).

Maybe it will be out in August. Baahaa!

Ha! Well, the reason I say WB is because that's been the label home for the Mac forever. It's not that I think WB is the best avenue for his solo work, it's just that it is a large label and I probably think it's maybe easier to work something out with them. But, with all the changes maybe not. Maybe they don't have multiple deals like I think. Maybe it is a one-shot thing and they have to renegotiate all the time. I also wonder if he could use the Mac situation as a bargaining chip with WB - "well, you want a new Mac album you gotta do something with my solo one first .... "

but why would he want that?

Because he could use it as a "vehicle". I don't think he has any grand illusions at this point of having a major solo career. I mean, I don't think that. I think he's content to work it as he does. FM is what people know and draws attention to him for his solo stuff. It's a bigger platform than he could ever build up on his own at this point, in my opinion. I mean, maybe he would be open to doing the alt gigs / festivals / independent route. I don't see it, but he could surprise me. Also, he could have better leverage with WB after two solo albums, a Mac tour, a Mac Glee, the SNL thing. He could - or Azoff could bargain for better promotion...

but didn't he have some leverage in 1998 after the dance and with all that great GOS stuff? and WB still held it...

all i see WB was doing for him is holding him back. i really don't get why he'd wanna go back today especially at this day and age when WB is in turmoil and a perfect example of a label dinosaur?

but then again, i really don't know much / anything about music business other then what i read here and there...

I think it's sort of a trade-off with the big labels as to what you can get and what you have to sacrifice. I guess I'm old school, I would think there are still things a large label can offer that an independent can't. But, things have changed a lot.

The timing on GOS was obviously off due to all the politics/transition in WB at the time. But, why didn't LB go to another label with it then? I'm sure someone would have wanted to capitalize on his new found notoriety. And, why didn't he release it before UTS since it had been sitting on a shelf for so long? I'm not sure WB is totally to blame for all that.

So, we'll see what happens.

i can see that point. i think WB held it back / wanted stuff he was not willing to give into. and he still wanted big promotion/sales as a solo act too. therefore cast away dreams (i know, i know, nobody but me seems to think that's about carrier... :rolleyes:) - and he was liberated :thumbsup:

now he seems to feel he can finally do it has way. so why go back to WB and have these amazing songs held up once again to roll them into mac album?

(guess i should hold back my optimism, that weird thing w/ boston date may not be a good sign? or that kind of thing happens a lot w/ ticketmaster?)

I was being stupid, but you know what they say, "those who don't learn from history..".

Lindsey should man up and walk the walk. He keeps talking about walking from the label. Just do it, people will buy the record. Stevie Nicks just proved that. It won't be #6 on Billboard but Lindsey isn't trying to make a hit record.

Do it, enjoy it, tour, sell some copies, maybe have a minor hit single (I'm hoping "End of Time" or "The Way Love Goes"), get rave reviews whatever sales end up being, and come back with Stevie, Mick and John and make an album, tour, or both.

At the end of the day his destiny's in his hands. He just needs to do it and move forward with this part of his career. Stevie's done it (still with WB but it's gone OK, but Lindsey needs out). Otherwise, I won't be crying in my beer when it's a non-event or gets folded into some bogus 2012 FM album. I will be upset with my hero.

As for the Boston date, that's just plain weird. 9/25 is a good sign though. Makes me think I need to save moolah for October. Good thing my bday is in Sep!

I don't believe all his stuff is unmercifully "rolled over" into the Mac albums and it's interesting to note that Stevie did say she wished he had saved the material for the Mac. But, to me it would be bizarre if Seeds We Sow ended up as a Mac album since he's already performed it solo.

"Now" he can do it his way? Oh, I think he always did it his way, really. Again, you go to a big label for what they can offer you monetarily, distribution-wise, etc. Although, like I said all that may be totally different now and not as important as it once was. I would think LB and his generation may have a hard time letting go of some of the old school way of thinking. Like my parents still don't get you don't necessarily stay with a company 35-40 yrs with a nice pension anymore...

Not sure what happened with the Ticketmaster thing.

but he already is walking the walk!!

he walked away from WB and announced that he'll put this out either on his own or w/ some small label.

i don't really get why are we choosing not to believe him when he said he walked, and that he's doing a tour in the fall? (guess learning from history / GOS - but again, then he depended on WB - now he depends just on his own means).

I feel like a broken record, but the man needs to release the album independently. Far less successful and celebrated artists have released albums independently and done well with their endeavors. At this point, the priority should be getting the music OUT, period. The people who want to buy it will buy it and having a mainstream label is hardly a requirement for getting tours or promotional appearances booked these days.

The one date that is gone is probably a venue jumping the gun. It happens a lot. I would expect that date to reappear in a few weeks when they are actually allowed to let the public know about it.

Nothing's concrete yet...that's all. Doesn't matter what he said. Things change - a lot. Like, he thought they were going to do a new Mac record after the Unleashed tour but Stevie did a solo record. Also, WB and the Mac were in the process early Unleashed of promoting a Rumours boxed set with "never before released" stuff that has yet to see the light of day...

cool, hope that's it.

i agree about nothing concrete. and you have much more experience with all this stuff than i do.

but, again, during the UL he was saying there will be a mac album and if it depended on him there would be apparently. he's still saying he thought he'd be doing something else last year, but since he unexpectedly had time on his hands he decided he might as well fill it.

so he depended on stevie there, and she pulled the plug on it.
box set was depending on WB again...

--> no WB involvement = good thing :woohoo:

hello, it's May!! I don't doubt Lindsey will have my dreams come true. I shall have that CD on blast, flying this side and that side of the california coast, drinking in every show as without water since the GOS tour. I'm frick parched and I've some Lindsey, else I DIE. haha.

I concur with what you have stated. Lindsey's solo music screams independent label. They would absolutely respect and treat him better than an old-school label like Warners. I hope once Stevie's current gig an and Lindsey's solo thing has run it course, they will quickly go into the studio and create a great Fleetwood Mac album.

I can't imagine that his recent solo work (which is already recorded?) would be rolled into a Fleetwood Mac album. I read a recent interview where he said that he didn't want to do that again -- that it would be better to collectively create the album, along with an outside producer, so it wouldn't all be resting on his shoulders.

Lindsey's Latest Work !!!
 

Penquin Head :
That last paragraph is more truthful and sounds like a wife saying..."Look, calm down...we will work this out!" You remember how stressed he got on the video of him looking for a producer!:shocked:

But, if they were the only ones who offered you a deal you'd probably take it. Also, you may just being making it public knowledge you could go independent to get the big boys attention.

I mostly agree with what CADreaming is saying. Yes, it would be nice if Lindsey could release his albums independently and have it all work out right. I just worry about it. I mean, all these years, he's had the backing of a big record company. Yes, they didn't promote him the way they should have, but at least he knew he'd have a place with them, even if the album didn't sell. He's taking a huge chance to sign with someone else. If he does, he may never have the backing of WB again. It's too late in the game to chance this.

he can go small label, or he can put it out himself. he has options, even more affordable to him than tons of bands that do it all the time. big label is a distant third choice and not worth considering for someone like LB imo - he has his own studio, he records, engineers and produces CDs himself and has a band on some songs only (granted on more this time than usual), can hire independent PR (already has) and can pay for DVD packaging / shipping.

see interesting excerpts from david lowery's blog (cracker, CVB) about labels, independent labels, and putting CDs out on your own (or start own label) that i quoted few months ago (almost nobody seemed to care:rolleyes:) - he argued that he did not want to do his own route mainly b/c he would need to pay for studio time, engineer, the band etc - again, LB already has most of this stuff in place / does it himself anyway, and he already hired independent PR, plus he seems to be using his networking potential more lately (emphases are mine):

"In 2007 after more than 20 years of recording and touring with the help of a record label or two, I was dreading the fact that we didn’t have a record label anymore. Our various one-off deals had run out and it didn’t seem like anyone was much interested in giving us the kind of deal to which we’d grown accustomed. Sure we could have got deals with various labels that would have offered us 50/50 profit splits or small advances. But check this out. Any contractor reading this will immediately grasp how expensive it is to record an album:

Like it or not the minimum amount of time to mix and record and album of 12 songs is about 18 days. I know no professional highly regarded bands that will make albums at a quicker pace (unless you go the live in studio route**). So say there are 4 people in the band. Then you need and audio engineer and an engineers assistant. aside from the engineer’s assistant everyone is a highly skilled specialist. So you are looking at 5 people who should be compensated in the range of 250 – 500 a day. Then there are the studio costs. The cheapest home studios charge 300 a day. What if you had your own studio? well did you get the mixing console and microphones for free? The computer software or tape machine for free? NO. Minimal cost for setting up the crudest pro level studio is 25k. Protools HD hardware and computer is 20k by itself. What about lodging or travel? So trust me when i say an 18 day record ultimately costs a minimum of 36k. You may defer payments to your side musicians or engineer or even the studio. But when the CD comes out they will need to get their money.

Further I would bet nearly every modern (post 1980) album you own was recorded in more than 18 days. There are exceptions, but no one has made a career of recoding “live in studio”.

Then you must consider the costs of marketing and distributing a CD or even download only. Again you can’t even get noticed by the bloggers unless you hire a specialist an independent publicist or two. They use their personal contacts to bring (even a cracker ) an album to their attention. The popular and influential bloggers, like the magazine reviewers are overwhelmed with submissions. It wouldn’t even matter that we are a “brand name. “

Commercial even large non-comm radio? Forget it. You need to hire one of these independent radio promoters that essentially bribes stations with “promotional buys” or events.

Okay. ”But aren’t you gonna make a lot more money if you sell the CDs yourselves?” Yes. But most people don’t realize that an album that sales less than 25k its first week can chart as a top 5 album now. A few years ago that would have been impossible. Maybe 100k minimum to get you in the top 5. I just looked at the Sound Scan report for one of our much more successful americana peers. Their last album. touted as their “highest charting”, sold less than 50k copies in the US! I’m not even gonna embarrass them by mentioning their name. Suffice it to say that Cracker’s last album sold considerably less.

You see how this “start your own label” thing is ultimately a sketchy proposition? You put considerable capital at risk and it’s a distraction from the necessary creative “work” an artist must do. It is generally profitable for someone like us to put out our own record, but not guaranteed.

Not saying I wouldn’t put out our own albums on our own label again, if I had to… Just saying I don’t want to."

http://300songs.com/2011/01/23/69-de...song/#comments

i'm not even talking about them not promoting him - i'm talking about them stalling him, and preventing him from any other independent promotion he put together himself (bad example, and also prime example of his laziness about that kind of stuff, but just look at his youtube channel). that's not a home / place to be with.

and please read what i quoted above from another insider / musician. he does not need to sign with anybody. he has most of the stuff already done / in place (other than promotion, which he doesn't get from WB anyway).

^Your enthusiasm is appreciated, but not totally realistic for Lindsey at this point in his career. By the way, having Irving Azoff as a manager ain't too shabby of a deal. So, I'm not concerned that he'll be missing some tremendous career boost if he doesn't go indy -he won't ever be a chart topper, or sell millions of cd's or downloads. Even Fleetwood Mac won't ever reach that sort of pinnacle again. But, he will have an avenue to put his stuff out there, so in the end of the day it doesn't really matter if it's done via WB or an independent. He is 62 years old and has had the best of both worlds.

yes, he keeps repeatedly saying what's in bold above, and he seems to really appreciate what he has and can do (also, he'll still be 61 in sept).

but see i don't see it as enthusiastic - i see what i'm saying as realistic. (with the caveat of course that i really don't know what i'm talking about ;))

and reality is this - lindsey solo doesn't sell many records, but he accepted that a while ago - and at this point he's considered a rock legend. many legends don't sell much but get great reviews and keep putting out CDs on their own small labels and keep touring - b/c they are artists and driven to do that. and people appreciate it.

so i see two options -

1. putting CD out on his own (or small label) now - which is what i and some others here are trying to advocate - or -
2. going back to WB (which is in huge turmoil) and having it stalled for another xx years.

to me the choice seems clear. i want it now (well, september)! and judging by the newly appearing tour dates that you and others have found, this seems to be happening.

what am i missing?

That it's going to happen regardless...

elle, do you seriously think I don't know exactly when his bday is?? ;)

The difference between major label and indy or your own label is money. If you have the option of using their budget vs. using your own personal money you go with theirs. And who wants to sell cd's out of the trunk of your car? Distribution is also vital, although as I've said it has changed a lot. Look at what Stevie has sold even with all the promotion she's gotten. Trust me when I tell you all the players involved know what they are doing and will successfully milk it til it's dry...and LB won't be left out at all. It's going to be fine. :)

:lol: yeah i was puzzled a bit

(in my defense, i have a late summer bday and hate it when people always add another year to my age b/c they go by the year, not bday)

Smaller Labels
 

I saw that Paul Simon was on the Hear Music label. I wonder if Lindsey had the opportunity to speak with him while in New York? I also thought it would be interesting if Lindsey could get on with Jack Johnson's Brushfire Records. While it doesn't fit their mold, I think Lindsey would be a great influence on (and possibly produce) some up and coming artists. Would love to hear Jack cover Save Me A Place.

A couple things to think about/remember:

1) Lindsey needs a new, fresh start, be it a new label or doing it himself. WB has done NOTHING for his career in the last 20 years!

2) I'm pretty sure SWS will come out as a solo album....there seems to be a lot of advance hype for it, and if there's tons od positive vibes for both SWS and IYD, well, that just sets the stage for a VERY strong FM album!

3) Which would put the band in a VERY nice bargaining position (last week's sales of RUMOURS wouldn't hurt either!!)....when they go shopping for a NEW LABEL.....remember, both Lindsey AND the band have severed their ties with WB, and after the horrible job WB did working the one-shot deal for SYW, I SERIOUSLY doubt the band would EVER re-up with the label. (They'd be damn fools if they did!).

4) Between "Glee". "American Idol", "Dancing With The Stars", tons of press, a tour next year and (maybe) a new album, this group (and it's members!) isn't going anywhere!

While I wouldn't push for Hear Music label ~ Carly Simon, Joni Mitchell, Paul McCartney and Antigone Rising have all had a bad time with the label ~ I like the Brushfire idea. I think the idea of Lindsey being a big fish in a small pond is a good one!

I would hardly call Lindsey saying they are "free agents" a permanent severing of ties. Their catalog is there. Is it possible they end up on another label? Yes. Is it likely? I wouldn't be so sure about that, especially for what is more than likely their final album.

The fact that their catalog is at WB means nothing...they get paid no matter where they're at! Wouldn't it be better to have both money from the catalog AND a successful NEW album coming in???

Oh, I wasn't aware that they are guaranteed a successful new album as long as it's not with WB. My bad.

If the catalog didn't matter, they would have left a long time ago. There usually is a sense of loyalty, of it being "family". Of course, maybe Warner's dropped them. It wouldn't be the first time veteran artists have gotten the boot at a major label...I can name a ton of country artists that happened to. Johnny Cash, George Jones, Tammy Wynette, Dolly Parton, Kenny Rogers...they couldn't get major deals. But, it wasn't their decision to leave.

By the way, I'm not sure how long ago the site was updated but the WB website has finally been updated and Stevie is listed on the roster, but FM and LB are not. That makes it a little more official in my eyes.

There's no guarantee on anything nowadays, particularly for a band who's members are all over, oh, I don't know....30!!!!
But I think a new label would be much more willing to work the band than WB.....signing one of the biggest bands of the last 50 years would still be a MAJOR deal!
And don't forget.....FM has parted ways with WB twice before....they were dropped by the label after TIME, then honored their three album deal after re-signing in '97 with THE DANCE and the double GREATEST HITS.
That's why I was so surprised to see them do a one-shot re-up with WB for SAY YOU WILL, especially after there was interest from other labels. But this band has always been made up of creatures of habit, particularly the girls and Mick and John!

Does Lindsey have the option of saying to a record company (like Interscope, for example): release my new album and you will get a new Fleetwood Mac album?

why? i don't think he should tie his solo release to a mac one.

Could he? Yes. He has been their producer. He may hold a lot of power. Remember in DR when he told Mick that he had the masters, maybe he'd just do something else with his stuff and Mick got sort of scared. Of course he did! He doesn't write, produce, architect or play a lead instrument. Lindsey holds the key to any future Mac project if it includes him and Stevie...

It doesn't have to be tied to a solo release for him to use that as a bargaining chip. If I was him and could negotiate a really sweet deal for myself that way, it's definitely the road I would take. Poker.