What's with all the Shangri-La bashing?
 

I am very confused, because I am seeing a lot of negativity toward Trouble in Shangri-La, and I just don't get it. You can like TISL and In Your Dreams, as well. I get that not everyone likes every album the same, and I can get that it is subjective. I myself, do not care for Street Angel, but I know people who do. Fair enough.
What's bugging me is the difference between 'I didn't care for it.' and 'God, that was such a pile of sh*t, I can't believe ANYONE would ever pay money for it.'
Another thing is this rewriting of history: TISL didn't sell well, TISL wasn't well received, etc. TISL debuted at #5 and sold well. It was not a runaway success like Bella Donna, but it WAS a commercial and critical success. There were many positive profiles of Stevie and the album. The only negativity I really remember was VH1, and I remember that because VH1 had such a heavy hand in the buildup and promotion of TISL only to give it a negative review.
I also remember The Ledge being bombarded with posts of love and gratitude toward Stevie and this album. Tastes change, I know that too.
I am not intending to start a flame war here, and I am not calling people out, just trying to understand why we have to build In Your Dreams up by bashing TISL. In my opinion, In Your Dreams stands on it's own merits. It is an amazing accomplishment, but it does not for one minute diminish my admiration for TISL.

I completely agree with everything you're saying here. I also don't understand why some feel that in order to prove how good IYD is they must bash TISL, or that it has to be an "either or" situation. They're BOTH very good albums, IMO.

I'm also bothered by the revisionist history. TISL was very well received critically when it came out, more so than any other Nicks album other than Bella Donna. It went higher on the charts than TWH, RAL, TOSOTM, and SA. It outsold SA by 3 to 1, even though it came out when album sales were already starting to tank. It was so well received in fact that a few years afterward Nicks questioned whether she would do another solo album because she felt that she went out on a real high with TISL (thankfully she changed her mind on that score).

I think some people feel like they have to justify their taste somehow. Like, "well I don't like TISL so I must prove that it was a failure as an album". They don't realize that something can be a big success and be loved by many people and yet you can still really hate it yourself. You don't have to justify your own taste.

I think it comes down to some people always wanting another Wild Heart or Bella Donna. Some fans will always compare her albums those two, and when a new one comes out, they insist it's the new "as good as Bella Donna" album and everything else is suddenly unworthy.

In Your Dreams has in fact renewed my interest in TISL; Moonlight and Planets of the Universe pair up together very well!

According to the Revisionists, John Shanks and Sheryl Crow were even worse for Stevie than Klonopin.

In Your Dreams is an amazingly good album! I LOVE IT!!!!! I also love Trouble In Shangri-la, too, and think it is very strong a collection as well. TISL sold well and had great reviews, too.

Like I said on the other thread, the only place only I've ever seen the seething out and out hatred for TISL by some being treated as the TRUTH for ALL is right here on The Ledge.

TISL was a good album and it was well received... I don't know who is saying otherwise. The boards were hoppin then, and they're hoppin now.

TISL wipes the floor with every album that came out in that decade. Hands down.
In the wake of IYD, it seems people have forgotten it's brilliance. For me, TISL is my musical soul and always will be.

Yeah I think its the "everything else is unworthy" phenomenon that is being seen here. Like, how exciting is it to say "In Your Dreams is Nicks' best album since Trouble In Shangri-La"? Technically that's what RS should have said, since they called TISL Nicks' "best solo work in years" when it came out, but instead the reviewer went back to The Other Side of the Mirror (which hadn't gotten nearly the good review that TISL had). People seem to think that to prove their point they have to say "best of since way back when" instead of something like "This is Nicks' 2nd consecutive great album" or something like that.

I thought the same thing about Planets/Moonlight. In fact, even though I'm not done listening to IYD over and over, I'm starting to think about how to fit songs from this album into Stevie playlists, and Planets was one of the first things I thought of!

Mike, I wish there was a 'like' button for posts on The Ledge, cause this one really needs it!

haha, well I'd like the "Revisionists" to take a look at Street Angel, then TISL (which was her next record) and then compare quality.

Yeah.

Now tell me TISL stinks. ;)

it was a step up, especially when you have low expectations after Street Angel and some others

Agreed. I love every song on TISL and I'm liking IYD a whole lot too.

~Maria

Look at the bad reviews on Amazon for IYD, they come from the I love TISL people. This thread should almost be flipped.

Of course. :laugh:

I enjoy Street Angel, more than TISL. It's not about quality though, just preference. TISL is certainly more magical.

I had high expectations for TISL after The Dance. For me, the vocals on TISL were a major let down. IYD is the first album she has released since The Wild Heart that doesn't have me skipping half of the tracks. Every track catches my attention and this has not happened since Bella Donna!

I love both albums. I think both are great albums in fact. I don't know why you can't love both. :confused:

It does seem like people are trying to overcompensate, or something. I like TISL, and don't see a problem with her vocals at all. :shrug: It's just about a perfect album to me - but IYD is the only one besides BD and RAL where I like every song. WH, OSOTM, and TISL all have 1 or 2 that I can't stand, and SA has about half a dozen.

When TISL came out I thought it was the best solo album she'd ever done. My love for it has slowly unravelled over the years, though. In time the production has come to sound very muddy, and Stevie's vocals sound extremely uninspired. Like others have said on the subject of TISL, the first 4 songs were stellar, and the last few were great as well. But this album kinda rots from the inside out because of the lackadaisical tracks in the middle.

And yeah, I am one of those people who has come to love Street Angel over the years. Compared to the murky production of TISL, 17 years on, Street Angel still crisply sparkles out of the speakers. I love the very quirky lyrics on Street Angel, especially compared to the almost cliche-for-Stevie lyrics on TISL. I adore the very back to basics straight forward guitar driven rock character of Street Angel. Yes, the album is *highly* flawed, but it's warts almost give it more character.

So why do I currently love In Your Dreams more than TISL? It seems more genuine, for starters. TISL kinda seems like a lazy all stars party. Stevie has passion again in her vocals, she's singing beautifully again... gone are the nasally belting monotones of TISL. As a whole, the production is much cleaner in IYD. The roots style music is soooo appropriate for the times and what all is going on in the world. In it's own way, IYD is almost Stevie's interpretation of the modern protest album. She's reminding us we need to get back to love, fantasy, and beauty. IYD makes a statement about the world and the times we're living in. TISL really didn't have a distinct message.

Who knows, my love for IYD very may well cool over time just as my love for TISL has. And perhaps in time I'll come to adore TISL again. After all, I once thought Rock A Little was the worst piece of crap Stevie'd ever vomited up :laugh:, and now I think it's SUCH a strong album. I'm keeping my mind open to change, that's all :).

TISL.....total mixed bag. It's a Big step up from SA. Still not perfect though Stellar Tracks bogged down with filler. One of the big problems for me.....is her overly nasal vocals. On some tracks it's like nails on a chalkboard. I give it 3 stars. Not bad.....not great though.

Mick

I agree with every word you've written in this post.

Re: the bolded material, I quote Stevie herself: "9/11 changed EVERYTHING." [emphasis added]

I think this is exactly what I was asking for Louie. Your love for TISL has dwindled, and you have clear reasoning for it (although one doesn't really have to justify why you like or dislike something) and you don't bash those who like it. It's just a stated opinion, and not an admonishment of those who disagree. As much as I like TISL, I do have to agree that the middle of the album gets a little bogged down...

See I don't get this comment about her vocals when I hear Nicks on "Sorcerer" going for higher notes for the first time in a long time on an album.

Yes, and I don't understand this perspective either. Again, its like "omg I have to defend TISL against the new album", when really no you don't. There's no reason to not consider them *both* to be excellent Nicks albums (if you feel that way).

You've certainly made me look at it in a different light. I do love certain things about Street Angel... Blue Denim and Destiny mainly... but overall as a record I find it very weak... and it hasn't grown on me over the years. Unlike TISL which I liked from the start, and my honeymoon phase with it has waned but I still enjoy it. ;)

I'm in the same boat as you. To me, Street Angel just lacks that special Stevie spark that every other one of her solo albums has. I keep calling it "pedestrian" writing because that's how it sounds to me....there isn't anything really creatively sharp about it.

I do understand why some like it, though, because some people seem to really dislike the sleeker production on RAL and TOSOTM. Production-wise SA seems like a throw-back to BD and TWH (although in my opinion the songs aren't nearly of the same calibre).

I loved TISL when it was released and still believe it holds up well. At the time, I was particularly impressed with how the production struck a good balance between fresh-sounding and overly trendy (even more surprising given the number of producers). Certainly the album isn't perfect...TMMS and IMY aren't among her stronger compositions and I question the inclusion of TFFT. But overall I think it holds together quite well as a collection of songs.

The one item that I would concede to the revisionists are her vocals. I really didn't have any issues with her TISL vocals at the time (although I did notice that her range had diminished since The Dance). In fact, it wasn't until SYW that I began to notice the lack of variety and nuance in her vocal delivery, which I then realized had been a problem on TISL. It's too bad because the monotonous quality is most pronounced on two of the albums best compositions: POTU and the title track. But her vocals certainly don't sink the album for me. I just realize that they could have been better (particularly when I heard "Call On Me For Magic" which was recorded in the same time frame - why oh why did she not employ these capabilities on the TISL tracks?!)

With the amazing quality of IYD, it's hard to imagine a Stevie Nicks fan not being incredibly impressed and pleased that she has delivered two of the strongest, most consistent albums of her career at this stage in her career. I can't think of many female rockers that have been able to pull off such high quality albums in their 50s and 60s!

I agree. I *am* very impressed that she put out TISL and IYD.

If anything, it makes me feel that if she hadn't been so addicted to coke/Klonopin to keep up with the pressure that she could have produced even more great albums. I think TWH, RAL and TOSOTM are good albums (and SA is fair) but they're all somewhat effected by those addictions.

Street Angel is MILES better then OSOTM :eek:

Alas, TOSOTM is MILES better than SA. :)

I agree with the original poster...I had noticed that too...even from Stevie a bit in some of the interviews...I loved TISL, and continue to do so...in some ways, it seemed to me similar to Bella Donna, arguably our Bella Donna's greatest work. Which makes this one Wild Heart...I'm joking, as I know it doesn't mean any such thing...but I think there are similarities...and WH was my personal favorite ...this one has a very good chance of taking over that role for me...

Honestly, I've seen this before when someone puts out something new then the last thing they did gets trashed and it always annoys me....:shrug:

I won't consider myself a basher - I'm even one of the few who likes TFFT - but I think her voice is somewhat unattractive in some spots on the album, & I hate the production in POTU & LC.
I think TISL is somehow both wildly overrated by most Stevie fans and sadly under-appreciated by the general public. It's certainly better than TOSOTM to my ears, but I wholly disagree with those who say it's better than TWH or RAL.

- Jake

I think TISL and IYD are both stellar albums. It's a bit weird to see people who, a few months ago, sang the praises of TISL, and now slam it to big up IYD. To me, IYD reveals some flaws in TISL; mainly in her singing, but, TISL is still an amazing album. I'm utterly thrilled that Stevie's managed to knock out two consecutive albums that are utterly amazing. To the general public, or casual fans, Stevie's "good" albums (Bella Donna, Wild Heart, TISL, and IYD) now outnumber her "bad" albums.

There's nothing near to Planets on IYD, or Nomad, Love is, Bombay, FFG or TISL.
Forget about I miss you and Everyday and you'll find TISL is a much better album than IYD. The songs are better and the sound is really better. AND TISL is Stevie's music over Stevie poems. IYD is (most) DStewart's music over Nicks poems, and that's why I find IYD quite vulgar (no, I don't like Mr. Stewart's music at all). The best on IYD is Moonlight (, Secret Love, For what is worth, New Orleans and You may be the one. Only one of them is DStewart's music.

I like TISL, and I had consistently ranked it #3 of Stevie's solo albums (behind BD and TWH). I still think the title track is one of the most spectacular songs she's ever recorded, and a few others are noteworthy. There are some pedestrian ones as well ("Every Day," "Love Changes"). And there is nothing as egregious as "That Made Me Stronger" on In Your Dreams. I wasn't a huge fan of her vocals during the early 2000s, either. I didn't attend any of the TISL shows, but I remember not being too impressed from the boots I heard. It was disappointing to me, considering how great she sounded during The Dance and Enchanted.

Anyway, I like TISL just fine, but IYD is a stronger album IMO.

To me the big difference is that IYD is a far more upbeat album than anything she has done since RAL. The title track is about as lyrically & musically jubilant as she ever gets. I remember one of the reviews for Street Angel saying that the album makes you want to hand her a box of Kleenex. That kind of thing was also in evidence throughout TOSOTM and TISL (and even two of the three new songs on TimeSpace).
Compare songs like "I Miss You" and "Italian Summer" - both pretty, catchy, adult-contemporary-type songs, but the former is so much more of a downer. Compare more reflective, folksy songs like "It's Only Love" and "For What It's Worth". Same thing.
Depressing Stevie songs have been the norm for over 20 years. This time around, even a song like "New Orleans" sounds more hopeful than wistful or sad. Even an adapted Poe poem manages to sound less depressing than most of what's on her last few albums, including TISL. "Soldier's Angel" is really the only downer song on this album. (How could it not be?)

- Jake

Except for, you know, pretty much every song on the album :lol:

On TIS-L I love the title track and Planets... and that's it... everything suffers from bad production, a particularly monotonous and bored-sounding Stevie, and Sheryl Crow. Heck, most of the songs aren't even bad, there are some good melodies and lyrics it's just the delivery/presentation is awful :shrug: imo

Even the TISL cover was better, my friend... ;)

:lol: oh you

Welcome to the dark side young Zanobbi. Others will join us in time... :nod:

as much as i have loved tisl and every single song on it for years, it doesnt compare to iyd. i feel that stevie is singing with so much more passion in her voice and she seems much more fearless with this cd. its like she isnt trying to prove anything. i dont think i have ever listened to a stevie cd this much in my life. iyd is one cd that i can listen to over and over and over. love it!!