The Ledge

The Ledge (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php)
-   Lindsey Buckingham (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   Law and Order Revisited (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=46157)

michelej1 03-16-2011 12:36 PM

Law and Order Revisited
 
Lindsey Buckingham: Law And Order (Elektra)
Gene Sculatti
Creem, February 1982

ONE WAY TO assess the relative merits of any time frame is the measurable presence of oddballs. And, hey, it's no secret that oddball content in rock has dropped to its lowest postwar levels of late.

Plus, the problem is aggravated by the actual ravings of bogus oddballs – like that Fripp chump, drips like Peter Gabriel and the all-night jive of Britain's joyless division of gloom mongers. So, it's in short supply. This oddball deposit. This eccen-trics stockpile.

But it really doesn't matter. Because one of the best oddball LPs of the last nine or ten years is out now. And Law And Order, at least from this quarter, more than makes up for the paucity of similarly bent discs. This is pure mutant pop like you wouldn't imagine – warp-ed, subtle, provocative (is the character in ‘I'll Tell You Now’ contemplating staying home from school/job or planning on taking that big dive out the second story of Material World living itself?) I'm still reeling from the awesome beauty and cosmo-headed wigsnap of ‘It Was I’, which, in addition to being positively addictive, proves the absolute immortality and endless applicability of stupid, r&r lyrics (these courtesy of late 1950's two-hit wonders Skip & Flip). And there's an endlessly mysterious reading, tongue not entirely cheek-buried, loaded with Santo & Johnny dreamwalk, of ‘September Song’, the all-time death ballad (Kurt Weill writ it, Jimmy Durante hit with it). (Plus, it's on the same LP as ‘Satisfied Mind’...)

I don't suppose there's time or space to get specific about every inch of this weird platter – like how or where or why it features the most offbeat perc work in woodstick history, or how those billowy harmonies make ‘Mary Lee Jones’ the logical update of ‘The Lion Sleeps Tonight’, how ‘That's How We Do It In LA’, is the strung-out second cousin of ‘Long Tall Tex-an’, or the way ‘Bwana’ unites Brian Wilson with Africa as if it were perfectly natural. (The single, ‘Trouble’, is a precious distillate of the cool artesian water that ran through Sunflower itself, saved and salved to yet another impenetrable songsubject.) Have I made myself clear?

Later for o'ball fakery. This is the real thing.

Gene ‘Hipsomatic Version’

TrueFaith77 03-16-2011 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelej1 (Post 951417)
Lindsey Buckingham: Law And Order (Elektra)
Gene Sculatti
Creem, February 1982

ONE WAY TO assess the relative merits of any time frame is the measurable presence of oddballs. And, hey, it's no secret that oddball content in rock has dropped to its lowest postwar levels of late.

Plus, the problem is aggravated by the actual ravings of bogus oddballs – like that Fripp chump, drips like Peter Gabriel and the all-night jive of Britain's joyless division of gloom mongers. So, it's in short supply. This oddball deposit. This eccen-trics stockpile.

But it really doesn't matter. Because one of the best oddball LPs of the last nine or ten years is out now. And Law And Order, at least from this quarter, more than makes up for the paucity of similarly bent discs. This is pure mutant pop like you wouldn't imagine – warp-ed, subtle, provocative (is the character in ‘I'll Tell You Now’ contemplating staying home from school/job or planning on taking that big dive out the second story of Material World living itself?) I'm still reeling from the awesome beauty and cosmo-headed wigsnap of ‘It Was I’, which, in addition to being positively addictive, proves the absolute immortality and endless applicability of stupid, r&r lyrics (these courtesy of late 1950's two-hit wonders Skip & Flip). And there's an endlessly mysterious reading, tongue not entirely cheek-buried, loaded with Santo & Johnny dreamwalk, of ‘September Song’, the all-time death ballad (Kurt Weill writ it, Jimmy Durante hit with it). (Plus, it's on the same LP as ‘Satisfied Mind’...)

I don't suppose there's time or space to get specific about every inch of this weird 1) platter – like how or where or why it features the most offbeat perc work in woodstick history, 2) or how those billowy harmonies make ‘Mary Lee Jones’ the logical update of ‘The Lion Sleeps Tonight’, how ‘That's How We Do It In LA’, is the strung-out second cousin of ‘Long Tall Tex-an’, or the 3) way ‘Bwana’ unites Brian Wilson with Africa as if it were perfectly natural. (The single, ‘Trouble’, is a precious distillate of the cool artesian water that ran through Sunflower itself, saved and salved to yet another impenetrable songsubject.) Have I made myself clear?

Later for o'ball fakery. This is the real thing.

Gene ‘Hipsomatic Version’

1) "platter" - tbc
2) Next Stop, Soul Drifter
3) aaaahhhh, the Fleetwod MAC Africa trip & album that should have been--and would have been the fivesome's fourth masterpiece

markolas 03-16-2011 03:37 PM

Until a couple of weeks ago, this was the only LB solo album I hadn't heard. And I have to say, on 1st listen, it's one of my favorites - the better of his two '80s albums, for sure. Some really infectious songs here: Bwana, I'll Tell You Now, Trouble...I think I remember hearing that it isn't LB's favorite of his albums, but it sounds great to me.

bluefox4000 03-16-2011 06:29 PM

In light of this Thread...I gave it a listen. It was just as I remember. Just AWFUL. I could not finish. I got halfway through and said.....No. This and Go Insane were never my cup of tea:shrug:

Mick

jbrownsjr 03-16-2011 08:27 PM

This is such a great album... It's timelessness is timeless... :D

henryscutter 03-17-2011 12:08 AM

This is his worst solo album- It's funny I have relistened to it many times just to be sure I wasnt missing something lol, but it sucks IMO

Give Me GI and GOS any day over this

Cammie 03-17-2011 12:34 AM

Law and Order !!!
 
Law and Order is from a younger guy and wonderful!
I listen to it for the lovely vocals on September Song
and Satisfied Mind! Trouble was a top 10, remember?

PenguinHead 03-17-2011 12:40 AM

Mutant Pop! I love that term.

Bella Donna and Law & Order were released in the same time frame. I recall loving Stevie's album, and being more than confused by Lindsey's album. They coudn't be more disparate!

Of course I loved his hit "Trouble" because it was the only song that remotely sounded like Fleetwood Mac. I remember being impressed that was mostly a self-constructed effort. But I wasn't getting it.

All these years later, I get it! I listen to it now with new ears, and a deeper knowledge of Lindsey's muse and wisdom. It's a very interestingly odd album that I appreciate for it's eccentricities.

There was a quote by Lindsey that appeared in Rolling Stone magazine at the time. He mentioned something to the effect that he thought his album was more creative/progressive than Stevie's album. I remember thinking he was crazy to say that. Now -- not so much!

TrueFaith77 03-17-2011 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr (Post 951496)
This is such a great album... It's timelessness is timeless... :D

genius. Yes, I still can't decide between L&A and GOS for my fav Lindsey solo album.

markolas 03-17-2011 07:28 AM

Gift of Screws & Out of the Cradle (and I'd also say Under the Skin, which I love, but I know some ppl might not think so) are def. his most accessible albums. But there's some real charm in the more offbeat stuff on Law & Order and Go Insane.

bluefox4000 03-17-2011 08:46 AM

You know. In a year of coming to the Ledge. I've realized a lot of things I hate are generally well loved by fans. lol. Not that it matters. Just an observation. Rock on:nod: You learn a lot is all I'm sayin'

Mick

David 03-17-2011 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelej1 (Post 951417)
And, hey, it's no secret that oddball content in rock has dropped to its lowest postwar levels of late.

How prescient. It's truer today than it was in 1981. Today's whining, groveling pop songwriters & singers take themselves far too seriously (& they all sound alike anyway). But they don't have enough to offer for listeners to take seriously.

McTrouble 03-17-2011 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77 (Post 951571)
genius. Yes, I still can't decide between L&A and GOS for my fav Lindsey solo album.

Those are the two I can't decide between either, they really are neck and neck.

But OOTC and GI are very very very very close runners up!

TrueFaith77 03-17-2011 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David (Post 951598)
How prescient. It's truer today than it was in 1981. Today's whining, groveling pop songwriters & singers take themselves far too seriously (& they all sound alike anyway). But they don't have enough to offer for listeners to take seriously.

I totally agree with EVERYTHING you said. In fact, I thought "revisited" referred to the fact that the review was a new review by some blogger and I thought: that's very perceptive. Funny to then realize that person was referring to 1981--if only he had known how bad it would get. For me, the definitive statement on the state of things is from Scritt Politti:

Quote:

Arcade Fire The Neon Bible
Nominated by Green Gartside of Scritti Politti
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2007/jun/15/popandrock


People who enjoy this album may think I'm cloth-eared and unperceptive, and I accept it's the result of my personal shortcomings, but what I hear in Arcade Fire is an agglomeration of mannerisms, cliches and devices. I find it solidly unattractive, texturally nasty, a bit harmonically and melodically dull, bombastic and melodramatic, and the rhythms are pedestrian. It's monotonous in its textures and in the old-fashioned, nasty, clunky 80s rhythms and eighth-note basslines. It isn't, as people are suggesting, richly rewarding and inventive. The melodies stick too closely to the chord changes. Win Butler's voice uses certain stylistic devices - it goes wobbly and shouty, then whispery - and I guess people like wobbly and shouty going to whispery, they think it signifies real feeling. It's some people's idea of unmediated emotion. I can imagine Jeremy Clarkson liking it; it's for people in cars. It's rather flat and unlovely. The album and the response to it represent a bunch of beliefs about expression and truth that I don't share. The battle against unreconstructed rock music continues.
Quote:

Originally Posted by McTrouble (Post 951610)
Those are the two I can't decide between either, they really are neck and neck.

But OOTC and GI are very very very very close runners up!

wonder where Seeds We Sow will rank?! :blob1:

Dodfather 03-17-2011 05:36 PM

I quite like this album. It's distinctly odd but far from unlistenable - there are a couple of great moments on there!

TrueFaith77 03-22-2011 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McTrouble (Post 951610)
Those are the two I can't decide between either, they really are neck and neck.

But OOTC and GI are very very very very close runners up!

Weirdest thing... I just listened to Under the Skin from front to back for the first time in awhile... and I don't know... I think it MIGHT be his best album.

wow

McTrouble 03-23-2011 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77 (Post 953168)
Weirdest thing... I just listened to Under the Skin from front to back for the first time in awhile... and I don't know... I think it MIGHT be his best album.

wow

I swing from loving it to hating it all the time :shrug:

michelej1 03-23-2011 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77 (Post 953168)
Weirdest thing... I just listened to Under the Skin from front to back for the first time in awhile... and I don't know... I think it MIGHT be his best album.

wow

You should listen to it from back to front, as well, like Stevie :laugh:

You make a good point though. When I listen to it, it's not with "new" ears. I always go in liking the songs I already like. If I listened to it fresh, it's been so long that I might hear things I've overlooked before.

Michele

aleuzzi 03-24-2011 10:44 PM

I love Law and Order. It, along with Out of the Cradle, are my favorite LB solo albums.

Shadows of the West and Trouble are so good! But it's the stranger songs that really strike me. A superb effort.

For the heck of it, I'll list my top three favorite Mac member solo albums:

Out of the Cradle
In the Meantime
Law and Order

Fiver 04-07-2011 07:26 AM

Funny how differently people can see things. Keeps things interesting, though. :p

I know I'm in the minority(maybe completely on my own?) here when I say that OotC is my least favorite of LB's solo albums. The production kills it for me, it's too slick and cheesy sounding for my taste. Some great songs, but I don't care for the style they were recorded in. I love L&O from start to finish, on the other hand. There's so much going on in the tracks, and I absolutely love the pacing. As soon as it's over I wanna hear it all again. Trouble, obviously, is a standout, but I'll Tell You Now, Shadow of the West & Mary Lee Jones (those double backed vocals and dat guitar solo) are also brilliant.

In my opinion he was still on a creative high from Tusk when he made Law & Order and it shows ( I feel the same about SN's Bella Donna). Not to discount later works at all (even with OotC not being to my taste, it marks a new more philosophical style of lyric writing from him that got even better on UtS and GoS) but I don't think he, Christine or Stevie have reached that high-water mark of creativity set by Tusk again.

It's like:

Rumours = Tusk >>>>>>>>>>>> everything that came after

shackin'up 04-07-2011 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiver (Post 960548)
Funny how differently people can see things. Keeps things interesting, though. :p

I know I'm in the minority(maybe completely on my own?) here when I say that OotC is my least favorite of LB's solo albums.

There's someone else on earth that agrees with you. :lol: My problem with OOTC is exactly yours too. It's the production, but especially on the drumtracks. They're cold and slick. On GI too, but there are those syndrums in place with the whole sound, so for me that's not a problem. OOTC was in terms of songwriting on the same level as other albums though. Great pieces of work.

I agree on the highpoint that is Tusk. But I must say that I don't agree on the later work with you. The original GOS was a masterpiece too. It is still a pity that that one never saw the light of day as an album.

TrueFaith77 04-07-2011 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiver (Post 960548)
Funny how differently people can see things. Keeps things interesting, though. :p

I know I'm in the minority(maybe completely on my own?) here when I say that OotC is my least favorite of LB's solo albums. The production kills it for me, it's too slick and cheesy sounding for my taste. Some great songs, but I don't care for the style they were recorded in. I love L&O from start to finish, on the other hand. There's so much going on in the tracks, and I absolutely love the pacing. As soon as it's over I wanna hear it all again. Trouble, obviously, is a standout, but I'll Tell You Now, Shadow of the West & Mary Lee Jones (those double backed vocals and dat guitar solo) are also brilliant.

In my opinion he was still on a creative high from Tusk when he made Law & Order and it shows ( I feel the same about SN's Bella Donna). Not to discount later works at all (even with OotC not being to my taste, it marks a new more philosophical style of lyric writing from him that got even better on UtS and GoS) but I don't think he, Christine or Stevie have reached that high-water mark of creativity set by Tusk again.

It's like:

Rumours = Tusk >>>>>>>>>>>> everything that came after


I agree that Tusk is the high point for all three of these artists. And everything after seems to be a response to the commercial success of Rumours/relative failure of Tusk, in each songwriters' idiosyncratic ways. You know the phrase "anxiety of influence"--what's it called when YOU are your own "influence"? No wonder they never quite melded as a group again in the studio... until, I'd argue, SYW which, in many ways, is a different animal (B/N with the universe's greatest rhythm section).

I also agree that OotC is Lindsey's weakest solo album--now that I've totally reawakened to UTS. But mostly I feel it's less to do with the sound--the layered guitars are gorgeous--than its length--and the fact that most of it sounds the same. Still, it's a very beautiful thing--and the last time his voice was in perfect shape.

chiliD 04-07-2011 04:23 PM

It's just mind boggling to me that there are people....

1) ...who think Tusk was a friggin' masterpiece, yet, Law & Order "sucks". Damn, Lindsey's songs between the two albums are f-ing interchangeable. There's little to no difference in style or production between Tusk & Law & Order except who plays & sings (or who doesn't) on them.

2)...who crap all over Out Of The Cradle. It's Lindsey's Pet Sounds, it's his Smile, it's his Sgt Pepper...it's his highwater mark. Everything since pales in comparison, everything before just was a process to getting to it. From Go Insane to Tango In The Night to Out Of The Cradle, he'd reached the mountain top and there was nowhere to go but down (or repeat himself). "Weak"?? WTF are you talkin' about...it's not just HIS STRONGEST album, it's one of the STRONGEST albums ever made...there's not a "filler" track on it (if you don't count the "intros" as separate tracks and count them as part of the track they lead into). In the history of albums there are very few that flow as smoothly from track to track, from beginning to end as Out Of The Cradle.

lbfan 04-07-2011 06:02 PM

Ootc
 
I agree 100 percent with ChiliD. OOTC is a masterpiece and everything else pales in comparison. I come to this board everyday because of OOTC, and in hopes that his next CD will come close to OOTC.

shackin'up 04-07-2011 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbfan (Post 960877)
and in hopes that his next CD will come close to OOTC.

I agree with you if he'd use a drummer this time around....but he won't on most of it.

elle 04-07-2011 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shackin'up (Post 960905)
I agree with you if he'd use a drummer this time around....but he won't on most of it.

from "seeds we sow" interview:

"Are you playing the drums?
No, it was machine drums and some [Apple] GarageBand stuff. And then there is also Walfredo Reyes [Jr.], who was on our last tour; he played on a few things. Some of it, there’s no drums at all. Then, once you start playing little bits of things for people, they tend to gravitate to the tracks with drums, so I said, “Okay, I’m gonna hedge my bets here, make sure that I’m covered if that’s where this album wants to go.” I wanted to be open-minded."

i read this, especially parts in bold, as saying that Walfredo Reyes Jr. plays drums on at least some of the new tracks, and perhaps even most of it (although hard to tell).

Fiver 04-08-2011 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shackin'up
There's someone else on earth that agrees with you. My problem with OOTC is exactly yours too. It's the production, but especially on the drumtracks. They're cold and slick. On GI too, but there are those syndrums in place with the whole sound, so for me that's not a problem. OOTC was in terms of songwriting on the same level as other albums though. Great pieces of work.

I agree on the highpoint that is Tusk. But I must say that I don't agree on the later work with you. The original GOS was a masterpiece too. It is still a pity that that one never saw the light of day as an album.

Nice to know I'm not on my own, looks like there are some like-minded folks out there. Who'd have thought it? :laugh:

I have yet to hear the bootlegged GoS, not sure why. :eek: I'll have to track that down. That said, UtS and GoS are pretty great in my book.


Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77
I agree that Tusk is the high point for all three of these artists. And everything after seems to be a response to the commercial success of Rumours/relative failure of Tusk, in each songwriters' idiosyncratic ways. You know the phrase "anxiety of influence"--what's it called when YOU are your own "influence"? No wonder they never quite melded as a group again in the studio... until, I'd argue, SYW which, in many ways, is a different animal (B/N with the universe's greatest rhythm section).

I also agree that OotC is Lindsey's weakest solo album--now that I've totally reawakened to UTS. But mostly I feel it's less to do with the sound--the layered guitars are gorgeous--than its length--and the fact that most of it sounds the same. Still, it's a very beautiful thing--and the last time his voice was in perfect shape.

Don't have much to add, just that that last paragraph is basically how I feel, only much better stated. I didn't mean to bash OotC as it might've across. LB hasn't made a dud, IMO.



Quote:

Originally Posted by chiliD (Post 960835)
It's just mind boggling to me that there are people....

1) ...who think Tusk was a friggin' masterpiece, yet, Law & Order "sucks". Damn, Lindsey's songs between the two albums are f-ing interchangeable. There's little to no difference in style or production between Tusk & Law & Order except who plays & sings (or who doesn't) on them.

2)...who crap all over Out Of The Cradle. It's Lindsey's Pet Sounds, it's his Smile, it's his Sgt Pepper...it's his highwater mark. Everything since pales in comparison, everything before just was a process to getting to it. From Go Insane to Tango In The Night to Out Of The Cradle, he'd reached the mountain top and there was nowhere to go but down (or repeat himself). "Weak"?? WTF are you talkin' about...it's not just HIS STRONGEST album, it's one of the STRONGEST albums ever made...there's not a "filler" track on it (if you don't count the "intros" as separate tracks and count them as part of the track they lead into). In the history of albums there are very few that flow as smoothly from track to track, from beginning to end as Out Of The Cradle.

I wouldn't say I'm 'crapping all over' OotC, I just don't think it's his masterpiece. I agree there's fantastic songwriting on it and it's virtually filler free (though I'm not a fan of him re-using melodies/riffs as with Doing What I Can), but overall, it's just too staid (as TrueFaith77 said) and I don't care for the production. I'm just guessing here, but to me, it sounds like it's been tweaked and refined and polished too much. Reminds me of when I go back to a drawing that I started months ago and try to touch up some tiny little flaw that only I could see anyway, and end up losing the original feel of the picture.

TrueFaith77 04-08-2011 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiliD (Post 960835)
It's just mind boggling to me that there are people....

2)...who crap all over Out Of The Cradle. It's Lindsey's Pet Sounds, it's his Smile, it's his Sgt Pepper...it's his highwater mark. Everything since pales in comparison, everything before just was a process to getting to it. From Go Insane to Tango In The Night to Out Of The Cradle, he'd reached the mountain top and there was nowhere to go but down (or repeat himself). "Weak"?? WTF are you talkin' about...it's not just HIS STRONGEST album, it's one of the STRONGEST albums ever made...there's not a "filler" track on it (if you don't count the "intros" as separate tracks and count them as part of the track they lead into). In the history of albums there are very few that flow as smoothly from track to track, from beginning to end as Out Of The Cradle.

I put together a playlist of Lindsey's singles--and it's really fascinating because one can totally hear the progression and REFINEMENT in his sound to which you refer. Just as I have recently with UTS, I wouldn't be surprised if I turned around on OotC--it's just, strangely, the solo album of his to which I less frequently return. In any case, I would never consider it "weak"--I should have said "least strong"/"least great" rather than "weakest." Again, I don't mind the sound or the production of the album the way some do who find it too polished or foo foo. Anyway, I know what I'll be listening to this weekend. Thank you, chili!

shackin'up 04-08-2011 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elle (Post 960953)
from "seeds we sow" interview:

"Are you playing the drums?
No, it was machine drums and some [Apple] GarageBand stuff. And then there is also Walfredo Reyes [Jr.], who was on our last tour; he played on a few things. Some of it, there’s no drums at all. Then, once you start playing little bits of things for people, they tend to gravitate to the tracks with drums, so I said, “Okay, I’m gonna hedge my bets here, make sure that I’m covered if that’s where this album wants to go.” I wanted to be open-minded."

i read this, especially parts in bold, as saying that Walfredo Reyes Jr. plays drums on at least some of the new tracks, and perhaps even most of it (although hard to tell).

I know, elle. I was referring to the same fragment: Some of it will have drummachines and Garageband, some no drums at all, some Wally. Therefore, I concluded: no drummer on most of it. Haha, it's all speculation isn't it.:lol:

Nico 05-12-2011 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiliD (Post 960835)

2)...who crap all over Out Of The Cradle. It's Lindsey's Pet Sounds, it's his Smile, it's his Sgt Pepper...it's his highwater mark. Everything since pales in comparison, everything before just was a process to getting to it. From Go Insane to Tango In The Night to Out Of The Cradle, he'd reached the mountain top and there was nowhere to go but down (or repeat himself). "Weak"?? WTF are you talkin' about...it's not just HIS STRONGEST album, it's one of the STRONGEST albums ever made...there's not a "filler" track on it (if you don't count the "intros" as separate tracks and count them as part of the track they lead into). In the history of albums there are very few that flow as smoothly from track to track, from beginning to end as Out Of The Cradle.

Perfect post. I agree so much with all of this.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:08 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
© 1995-2003 Martin and Lisa Adelson, All Rights Reserved