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mikebise 02-27-2011 02:09 PM

The Other Side Of The Mirror is a very dark album
 
I remember being surprised and a bit annoyed in 1989 by Stevie's comments in interviews about the meaning of The Other Side Of The Mirror, i.e., going back and forth from solo to Fleetwood Mac. I found that very superficial, and I didn't believe her for a second. Added with the reviews and fan gushings, all centering on castles and unicorns and fairy tales and stuff, I wondered if I was hearing the same album as everyone else!

I love The Other Side Of The Mirror! But from the moment I got the "Rooms On Fire" single with "Alice" on it, I found the songs full of darkness, anger and fear. And rightfully so, I thought.

"Welcome To The Room... Sara" prepped us a little with Stevie's anger at her management company, letting them know, "I will be different when I get back, and you can take all of the credit, baby!" Stevie didn't want to go to Betty Ford for her cocaine problem. She was leveraged into it, forced by those around her looking out for their own paychecks. And when she got back, "sober", was her life any better? Yeah, she was alive, but was her life any better, really?

I think those were the questions Stevie was struggling with in those first years after rehab. The coke made song-writing easier, she's freely said, even to this day. But she lost a lot of confidence in herself after Betty Ford, as well as the weight comments during the Rock A Little tour. I believe this is why she so eagerly embraced the new, Buckingham-free Fleetwood Mac in 1987, even putting her planned 4th solo release (Stevie Nicks: Greatest Hits was due for Christmas 1987) on hold while she toured with Fleetwood Mac through mid-1988. So, even as she regained her confidence as a performer, Stevie still had issues stemming from her non-reliance on cocaine, her growing dependence on tranquilizers (which we didn't know about then) and especially still her 1984 breakup with the love of her life, Joe Walsh.

I listen to The Other Side Of The Mirror, and it reminds me of Stevie's comments about "Angel" in the Tusk documentary. She had planned "Angel" to be an upbeat song to counter her "dark" songs. "And it is up," she says, but there's this dark current running through it still. And that's how I perceive The Other Side Of The Mirror.

Stevie herself has said that "Doing The Best I Can" is her most depressing song, and it is! It's not hopeful in the least! "Well, I hear she's doing fine and she's doing the best that she can..." That sounds angry and pissed off to my ears, those "whispered secrets" going on and on. There's no, "Well, I'm happy now... la dee dah!" It's more, "Well, this is it for now...", resigned to the uncertainty and sadness in her life.

"Long Way To Go" is clear enough in its anger towards Joe. Whether the songs were written pre or post cocaine, they all seem to have disappointment, sadness, longing and anger at their centers. Even the "happiest" song on the album, "Ooh My Love", still is only remembering the good times:

"Yes, it was a strain on her
Watching her castles fall down...
Oh, but there was a time
When he called her 'angel'..."

That time was over, the castle walls had crumbled and fallen. The music is very pretty, but I don't hear joy when Stevie's voice cracks at the end when she proclaims:

"Ooh eh hey, baby
No one can take you away from me!
No... No one..."

Sounds like he was already gone.

"Alice" is so dark and deceptive. Again, I think it's about Stevie's anger and depression about how others treated her. The music floats on air, as do the Girls' backing vocals, but Stevie seems pretty centered, seeing things very clearly. The hidden stilettos waiting to stab you in the back are always present.

"Call out my name
But I get no answer...
And she prays..."

"For the world that we all come from...", she would add in concert. It seemed like that world of ease was gone for Stevie. With more success came more pressures.

Even the cast off "Real Tears" illuminates some of Stevie's feelings. In a 1994 radio interview, Stevie said that "Real Tears" was about how sometimes you cry crocodile tears and you don't really mean it. But sometimes, the tears are real. And they were real tears in that song.

But "Ghosts" said it probably the clearest, as Stevie was hitting 40 as she wrote it:

"To fill the empty spaces
She's feeling,
She depends on her music
Like a husband
And she knows it's no good
To fall in love again
..."

Stevie giving up on love??? The ultimate romantic accepting defeat? I think the loss of Joe Walsh from her life is the underlying theme of The Other Side Of The Mirror. And, because Stevie and Joe were not that public in their romance (Stevie never acknowledged it until 1991 ~ in England!), those hidden things she could not say openly came out in the darker tensions on the album.

Let me say, I love all of Stevie's career, peaks and valleys. I think The Other Side Of The Mirror is a lot deeper than Stevie's given credit for.

David 02-27-2011 03:08 PM

Excellent post, Mike. It reminds me of reading your articles in the old Mirror, Mirror.

tilthefirefades 02-27-2011 03:12 PM

I've always found a good majority of Stevie's music to be very dark, but you hit the nail on the head with this post, very good!

mikebise 02-27-2011 03:42 PM

Thanks! David, I was actually remembering some issues of Rumours from 1989, and everyone was talking about "upbeat" and "Lifting spirits", and I was thinking, "Whuh???"

For me, The Other Side Of The Mirror was like sitting around with a box of wine, thinking about all of the opportunities you'd let slip by, and those you'd loved who left you. And you did what you had to to get through in life, to meet your obligations. I guess Stevie was right on the meaning then, meeting her many, many obligations.

But I still sense that resentment in her lyrics. "You watch after her, and your word is Law..." This echoes those lines from "Welcome To The Room... Sara" about Front Line Management. I think "Welcome To the Room... Sara" and "Ooh My Love" are two of Stevie's most deceptive songs, as the music for both seem to be bright and upbeat, but the lyrics have dark undertones.

"In the shadow of the castle walls
Wherever those walls were...
Well, you used to love
To be behind those walls with her...
"

And then you left her.

Stevie also bugged me with her f-ing literal explanation of "Fire Burning" being "about my garage burning down!" In her interviews, she just left it at that, wondering, "What can I grab and take with me so it doesn't burn up?", letting a deeper meaning to the frothiest of her songs on the album go without exploration. Again, one of her most telling lyrics is buried in the song:

"So still, there is a fire
That no one sees...
She doesn't even see it either
Or so everyone thinks..."

There, Stevie is admitting she knows more, feels more than she is letting those close to her realize. Hiding her true feelings is a sign of anger again, that "fire burning" that is not a freaking garage.

People still talk of gossamer strands and crystalline walls, but The Other Side Of The Mirror is not about finally finding the rainbow's end, that fairy land of unicorns and Prince Charming. It's about the wreckage of Stevie's life, and her fear in how she was going to go forward.

I find it fascinating to this day.

mikebise 02-27-2011 04:22 PM

I was trying to think of some instances of Stevie smiling during The Other Side Of The Mirror period...

Well, there's the live version of "Rooms On Fire" in May 1989 on that Dutch (German?) TV show, with Stevie in that black dress and huge black hat, and that grin plastered on her face throughout the song. I swear, she's totally drunk!

Also, there's the May 1989 One To One interview with that English woman, where Stevie actually tries to be funny (another instance of her mimicking Christine!). :lol:

starshine 02-27-2011 04:29 PM

Yeah, it does sound like alot of your writings in the old Belle Fleur/MM fanzines days. I still have them all and still will go back and read them to this day. Its always good to read different peoples perspectives on Stevie's music solo or with Mac. I'll always love Mirror probably because its when I first started to really collect Stevie solo stuff (and Mac stuff too). So I know Mirror gets torn down alot like SA does. I do agree that Mirror does say alot even with all the beautiful music behind it. Sometimes you have to take away the 'music' aspect and just really read or listen to her words. Thats were the 'true' insight comes from I guess. I do love alot of Mirror sure yes in someways it could be better but really I guess we can all say that about every solo LP of Stevies (as well as Mac's or any artists). But there is something redeeming about all of them to a point. I mean they may not have been a big commerical success but that doesn't mean it doesn't have to be import to you as the listener. So Mirror will always hold that special place for me. I do see the anger and the hardbreak for Stevie. Like on Long Way To Go. I so love that song. You have no idea how many times when I've been hurt and angry I'd sing that song as loud as I could. Even if only for myself. I love 'Doing The Best That I Can' too that song was there when I myself went through alot . Like Stevie I was doing the best that I could at that point and time. Even if to others it didn't look like it. I also love Ghosts, Ooh My Love, ROF, others. I didn't get to see Stevie 'live' on this tour but it'll always be special to me even if others don't have the same love for it that I do but you know thats OK .Songs touch us for reasons maybe even reasons we don't see at the time. They just do so why question it?? Really. :shrug::D

Christopher 02-27-2011 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebise (Post 946251)
I remember being surprised and a bit annoyed in 1989 by Stevie's comments in interviews about the meaning of The Other Side Of The Mirror, i.e., going back and forth from solo to Fleetwood Mac. I found that very superficial, and I didn't believe her for a second. Added with the reviews and fan gushings, all centering on castles and unicorns and fairy tales and stuff, I wondered if I was hearing the same album as everyone else!

I love The Other Side Of The Mirror! But from the moment I got the "Rooms On Fire" single with "Alice" on it, I found the songs full of darkness, anger and fear. And rightfully so, I thought.

"Welcome To The Room... Sara" prepped us a little with Stevie's anger at her management company, letting them know, "I will be different when I get back, and you can take all of the credit, baby!" Stevie didn't want to go to Betty Ford for her cocaine problem. She was leveraged into it, forced by those around her looking out for their own paychecks. And when she got back, "sober", was her life any better? Yeah, she was alive, but was her life any better, really

I think those were the questions Stevie was struggling with in those first years after rehab. The coke made song-writing easier, she's freely said, even to this day. But she lost a lot of confidence in herself after Betty Ford, as well as the weight comments during the Rock A Little tour. I believe this is why she so eagerly embraced the new, Buckingham-free Fleetwood Mac in 1987, even putting her planned 4th solo release (Stevie Nicks: Greatest Hits was due for Christmas 1987) on hold while she toured with Fleetwood Mac through mid-1988. So, even as she regained her confidence as a performer, Stevie still had issues stemming from her non-reliance on cocaine, her growing dependence on tranquilizers (which we didn't know about then) and especially still her 1984 breakup with the love of her life, Joe Walsh.

I listen to The Other Side Of The Mirror, and it reminds me of Stevie's comments about "Angel" in the Tusk documentary. She had planned "Angel" to be an upbeat song to counter her "dark" songs. "And it is up," she says, but there's this dark current running through it still. And that's how I perceive The Other Side Of The Mirror.

Stevie herself has said that "Doing The Best I Can" is her most depressing song, and it is! It's not hopeful in the least! "Well, I hear she's doing fine and she's doing the best that she can..." That sounds angry and pissed off to my ears, those "whispered secrets" going on and on. There's no, "Well, I'm happy now... la dee dah!" It's more, "Well, this is it for now...", resigned to the uncertainty and sadness in her life.

"Long Way To Go" is clear enough in its anger towards Joe. Whether the songs were written pre or post cocaine, they all seem to have disappointment, sadness, longing and anger at their centers. Even the "happiest" song on the album, "Ooh My Love", still is only remembering the good times:

"Yes, it was a strain on her
Watching her castles fall down...
Oh, but there was a time
When he called her 'angel'..."

That time was over, the castle walls had crumbled and fallen. The music is very pretty, but I don't hear joy when Stevie's voice cracks at the end when she proclaims:

"Ooh eh hey, baby
No one can take you away from me!
No... No one..."

Sounds like he was already gone.

"Alice" is so dark and deceptive. Again, I think it's about Stevie's anger and depression about how others treated her. The music floats on air, as do the Girls' backing vocals, but Stevie seems pretty centered, seeing things very clearly. The hidden stilettos waiting to stab you in the back are always present.

"Call out my name
But I get no answer...
And she prays..."

"For the world that we all come from...", she would add in concert. It seemed like that world of ease was gone for Stevie. With more success came more pressures.

Even the cast off "Real Tears" illuminates some of Stevie's feelings. In a 1994 radio interview, Stevie said that "Real Tears" was about how sometimes you cry crocodile tears and you don't really mean it. But sometimes, the tears are real. And they were real tears in that song.

But "Ghosts" said it probably the clearest, as Stevie was hitting 40 as she wrote it:

"To fill the empty spaces
She's feeling,
She depends on her music
Like a husband
And she knows it's no good
To fall in love again
..."

Stevie giving up on love??? The ultimate romantic accepting defeat? I think the loss of Joe Walsh from her life is the underlying theme of The Other Side Of The Mirror. And, because Stevie and Joe were not that public in their romance (Stevie never acknowledged it until 1991 ~ in England!), those hidden things she could not say openly came out in the darker tensions on the album.

Let me say, I love all of Stevie's career, peaks and valleys. I think The Other Side Of The Mirror is a lot deeper than Stevie's given credit for.

Mike, these are all very good insights and I loved reading them.
I've long since had the conclusion that OSOTM is Stevie's saddest record in message , while wrapped up in a pretty red bow. It is a cautionary fairy-tale. Rock n' roll style. I remember reading a lot of UK critics reviews when it was released where they pretty much summed it up the same way. Up until this album, who knew Stevie was so self aware :shocked:. It was quite something to see Stevie waking up and being blinded by the light of the day, after drifting so long in the seas of love and romantic possibility.:angel:

Travis 02-28-2011 09:22 AM

I always enjoy reading your posts Mike - I think I'm gonna break out Mirror today, now that I have this new insight :)

HejiraNYC 02-28-2011 10:10 AM

Excellent write-up, Mike! :xoxo: I happen to agree with pretty much everything in your post. However, I do want to elaborate on "Fire Burning," which has never been one of my favorite songs. I also remember the radio interviews at the time in which Stevie described the meaning behind the song- that it was about the things she would risk her life to save if her house was burning (I believe they were her tapes and a cashmere blanket :rolleyes: ). For some reason I was really put off by that, thinking gosh, what a retarded premise for a song. But your write-up has kind of re-opened the case for me. Yes, her explanation at the time was quite literal... but I agree that there is something very dark and troubling about the song. I know I have a tendency to think most of her songs are about drugs... but this one is also about drugs! :lol: The burning fire was her out-of-control drug habit, which gave her that creative spark ("...her eyes grew strangely bright"), or so she thought. She realized that this lifestyle and her mental state was not sustainable, yet she felt like she had to find a way to carry on. So "what could she take and still survive the fire?" More drugs! The tricky part here is the so-called "window," which is an oft-used symbol for enlightenment or an opportunity for escape. It seems that her "window" here was the so-called moment of clarity- an opportunity to "get well" in rehab. But she was defiant: "...it's an illusion!" She was under the (perhaps delusional) notion that all was fine on Planet Stevie- that she was merely self-medicating to help deal with some temporary emotional problems- a soul crying.

So, against her will, she goes to rehab ("...take a little time and then stop"). But the whole time she thought it was bullsh*t ("...it's something that you cannot see..."). But she was determined to survive it despite the trauma of detox ("I'll get down, she says!).

In the final verse, she says "still, there is a fire which no one sees," in other words, despite getting off of cocaine, there is still a problem- and it's called Klonopin! So even though she is supposedly clean, she is still a raging drug addict. And, as we all know, she has always claimed that being addicted to Klonopin was much worse than being addicted to cocaine. So she is now bitter and angry that she was forced to trade down to a poison which was much less fun and much less inspiring creatively, yet just as deadly. The "there's no fire!" that she reiterates until the end of the song has taken on a new meaning. "There's no fire" originally meant there was no problem (with cocaine). Now it means that there is no more creativity due to the after-effects of rehab and Klonopin.

Even if all of the above is totally wrong, I doubt this song was written about cassettes and blankets.

aprilsrain 02-28-2011 01:17 PM

I remember not being impressed with the album musically so I didn't listen to it much. I'm gonna have to go back and rediscover this one. Great post Mike.

Old Man Wise 02-28-2011 01:28 PM

The cover art was also very intense. I would love to see outtakes from this photo session (with the red dress and black background) but I don't think they ever were released.

mikebise 02-28-2011 03:12 PM

Hej, EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!

That's what I meant about "Fire Burning" being so much deeper ~ thank you for such a wonderful write-up!!! I love that! I love everyone's observations.

Stevie was given a "legal" addiction, after she refused to the ridiculousness of her going to AA, since she was not an alcoholic. "Cross addiction" blah, blah, blah. They forced the rehab on her, she did it, so then they tried to force the AA on her, which she flat out refused. So, they did the next best thing and tranquilized her.

And her anger grew. It's SO apparent in these songs, IMO.

michelej1 02-28-2011 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC (Post 946515)
Stevie described the meaning behind the song- that it was about the things she would risk her life to save if her house was burning (I believe they were her tapes and a cashmere blanket :rolleyes: ).

Didn't she say she would save her cat(s) too?

I never thought there was anything upbeat about this album, either on the surface or at a deeper level. On the surface you have the Alice in Wonderland reference, which is itself not only dark, but drug related. For me that is all about manipulation, distortion, delusion and denial. Sanity is at test for Alice and the people around her all seem to be trying to rob her of it, a mass gaslighting that would have made Charles Boyer mavel.

All of the album's songs are in keeping with that theme and I don't even see Rooms on Fire as uplifting, just because there is magic all around, because it seems fleeting. Magic ends. Maybe I'm influenced by the video, but the part of that song that stays with me is the long nets of white clouding memory, not the magic. For me, the magic only comes into play to compound the sense of loss, because I think of having felt it, only to have it taken away. It's more about hating to be separated than of feeling the exhilaration of fire.

The only song to me that could even be seen as remotely cheery is Two Kinds of Love.

Michele

mikebise 02-28-2011 03:16 PM

Here's what my friend John had to say in a message to me on this subject (Don't be mad at me sharing, John, it's an illuminating observation!) ~

[About my comments about "Welcome To The Room... Sara"]

"That's a fascinating take on that interesting and transitional song from Stevie. The end of one part of her career and the beginning of another, sadder one (stylistically, physically, emotionally).

She was different when she got back.

I've always felt the darkness of TOSOTM, even under the frothiness of it's production. Even the album art is very dark; it's almost nightmarish, really. The never-ending darkness all around her except for the one harshly illuminated spot on the checkered floor where Stevie is on her hands and knees. Rumours, Bella Donna, The Wild Heart and Rock a Little all featured proudly standing Stevies. Even the sitting Stevie on The Wild Heart isn't in the same helpless, passive position as the rouged Stevie on TOSOTM. She's the introspective one of a ghostly trio, but not defeated even at the hands of death itself (Robin)."


I got chills reading how John described the album cover. He's so spot on right!

KarmaContestant 02-28-2011 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelej1 (Post 946621)
Didn't she say she would save her cat(s) too?

I recall her saying her "jew-ler-eey" (I always hated the way she said jewelry)

michelej1 02-28-2011 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebise (Post 946624)
I've always felt the darkness of TOSOTM, even under the frothiness of it's production. Even the album art is very dark; it's almost nightmarish, really. The never-ending darkness all around her except for the one harshly illuminated spot on the checkered floor where Stevie is on her hands and knees.

I do think the album art is interesting. People here have made me laugh as they mocked her contorted position on the floor and it's become an object of ridicule, which I think is perfectly on target.

Still, I've always been intrigued by the choice that went into that shot. I don't see it as dark, but I do see the floor as cold, domestic (kitchen or diner) and quite unlike Stevie. I'd expect her to be walking on plush carpeting, earth, even clouds, not kneeling on a checkered floor.

Contrasted with her dress, I almost feel like that floor is a magnet, the only thing keeping her grounded and tied to reality. It's a touchstone and anchor. It's Kansas. She's subservient and bends to it, because if she breaks contact with the floor she might just float off, to the other side, never to be retrieved.

Michele

michelej1 02-28-2011 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant (Post 946625)
I recall her saying her "jew-ler-eey" (I always hated the way she said jewelry)

I don't know why I remembered cat when, as far as I know, Stevie hasn't ever talked about having cats. So, I don't know why that was in my head. Here is her quote from 1989 and your jewelry mention:laugh:.

"The original inspiration for this was when I lived in a house on Doheny and my garage caught fire because somebody else's house caught fire down the street and a cinder hit my garage. And I woke up because I heard all this noise. And I looked out my front window and there's, like, 50 firemen running up my driveway and I thought, well, 'what is this for?'

And I ran around to all the windows and finally I got to the back of the house. And I looked out and the entire garage was, like, 50 feet of burning flames. And I ran around to the bathroom about fifteen different times, saying 'what can I take? What should I take?'

So what I took was the dog, the blanket, all my writings and tapes, my jewelry. And I thought, you know, the stairs may be on fire. But she'll get down, she said. I'll get out, I'm not burning up in this house. So that's where the whole beginning and idea of this song came from, was 'what can I take and still survive the fire' or how much time can I spend to decide and not be burned up on the second story?

It's frightening, to see flames that high and know that at any point those flames could hit your house and I didn't know whether the bottom story was on fire already or not. But it was very hard for me because I thought, 'what do I take out of this room?' I did! I ran around in circles three times, four times, five times, and I said, 'I'll take the dog, cashmere blanket, all my tapes, and my writing.' Everything else can be, doesn't matter, material things, at this point, don't matter."

mikebise 02-28-2011 03:33 PM

The cover of "Rooms On Fire" is even more bizarre. It always seemed to me that Stevie wasn't going for Late Eighties Glam, but more for a surreal depiction of loss or madness. Look at that cover. It is so f-ing strange.

michelej1 02-28-2011 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebise (Post 946631)
The cover of "Rooms On Fire" is even more bizarre. It always seemed to me that Stevie wasn't going for Late Eighties Glam, but more for a surreal depiction of loss or madness. Look at that cover. It is so f-ing strange.

Yes, I see what you mean about loss and madness in her eyes and in the fact that her skin is so pale.

The decolletage is unlike her too. I mean, not that she usually hides her breasts, but it's strange to me that the camera is shooting her from overhead, so you're looking right down like that.

Michele

HejiraNYC 02-28-2011 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelej1 (Post 946621)
The only song to me that could even be seen as remotely cheery is Two Kinds of Love.

Michele

Oh, I have to disagree! Upon reflection, "Two Kinds of Love" is a pretty dark, tragic song, and it's another one that she seems to have purposefully distorted the meaning of in interviews. I recall in a radio interview that she said that the two kinds of love were 1) the way you love me (no explanation needed) and 2) the way you walk, i.e., that sexy way you move your hips and carry yourself. I always found that second "kind of love" to be odd. I always interpreted "the way you walk" as being the way you walk away from a destructive relationship to save the other person, i.e., if you love someone, set them free. So the two kinds of love are being together and being apart. And I think this song is, yet again, about drugs... and about her relationship with Joe Walsh- the way that, despite their intense love, they were fueling each others bad behaviors. They had to be "estranged sometimes for their very survival." Literally. The most blatant drug reference: "My third day up, well, his second nighter..."

It's a shame that the song was dripping with that schlocky production and Bruce Hornsby's deadpan vocals. And that sax solo. :eek: It's a tasty song cloaked with Cheez Whiz and Bacon Bits.

I think "Alice" is probably the most harrowing song of them all. "Like Alice through the looking glass, she used to know who she was." Ouch! That's some pretty intense honesty. I suppose all of these years we haven't given Stevie enough credit regarding her level of self-awareness. The world at large saw that she was heavy, lethargic and meandering a bit artistically. And on a personal level she knew she was surrounded by sycophants and yes-people who catered to her every indulgence, no matter how destructive. This song proves that she knew what everyone was thinking.

seekerj 02-28-2011 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebise (Post 946631)
The cover of "Rooms On Fire" is even more bizarre. It always seemed to me that Stevie wasn't going for Late Eighties Glam, but more for a surreal depiction of loss or madness. Look at that cover. It is so f-ing strange.

When they were paying "Rooms" on the radio before the album came out, one DJ in Connecticut said something to the effect of "you should all see this picture on the cover of "Rooms On fire". It's like she's saying, "Hi, I'm Stevie Nicks, and these are my breasts."

seekerj 02-28-2011 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelej1 (Post 946628)
I don't know why I remembered cat when, as far as I know, Stevie hasn't ever talked about having cats.

I think she's mentioned cats a couple of times. She once said something like "Landslide" was like a cat that disappears and then keeps coming back, and she once had a cat that kept doing that. Something like that. I don't remember what show, but I think it was during an introduction for "Landslide".

Maybe that's what you were thinking of (?).

KarmaContestant 02-28-2011 04:09 PM

Well, it looks like tonight is going to be spent listening to this album for the first time in more than five years.

There have been some great insights in this thread.

When TOSOTM was first released, I absolutely loved it (I was 16). By the time I reached my early 20's, I found it at the bottom of my Stevie-album rankings where it has remained to this day.

Maybe tonight I'll hear some fresh perspectives, although I might have to add some colored lighting and a glass or three of wine to increase the enjoyment of this solo listening party.

michelej1 02-28-2011 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC (Post 946633)
Oh, I have to disagree! Upon reflection, "Two Kinds of Love" is a pretty dark, tragic song, and it's another one that she seems to have purposefully distorted the meaning of in interviews. I recall in a radio interview that she said that the two kinds of love were 1) the way you love me (no explanation needed) and 2) the way you walk, i.e., that sexy way you move your hips and carry yourself. I always found that second "kind of love" to be odd. I always interpreted "the way you walk" as being the way you walk away from a destructive relationship to save the other person, i.e., if you love someone, set them free.

I've always thought of "the way you walk" in a similar way. Not necessarily the way you walk away to save someone from a destructive relationship, but more like the way you walk away to protect and respect yourself. You know: I have a line I will not cross and I won't let you cross it either. I'm not taking this any more.

I mean, you have the one man who did not fall in Stand Back. He did not fall for her so deeply that he lost the firmness of his beliefs. I think "the way you walk" is a man who walks away when he has had enough and doesn't stay and doesn't beg and won't be a doormat -- and whom Stevie admires all the more, for the way he won't put up with it.

So, to me the meaning has always been, the way you walk and the way you love me =

"the way that you leave and the way you love me."

If you are going to do that to yourself, I'm not going to stand here and watch and enable. Tough love.

Michele

Tango 02-28-2011 04:38 PM

Wasn't it more like, "leave the cat--take the cannoli"?

http://images.artnet.com/artwork_ima...810/476957.jpg


I can't remember.

equeen102289 02-28-2011 06:10 PM

I loved reading your post, Mike. I agree with everything you said.

mitzo 02-28-2011 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelej1 (Post 946626)
I do think the album art is interesting. People here have made me laugh as they mocked her contorted position on the floor and it's become an object of ridicule, which I think is perfectly on target.

Still, I've always been intrigued by the choice that went into that shot. I don't see it as dark, but I do see the floor as cold, domestic (kitchen or diner) and quite unlike Stevie. I'd expect her to be walking on plush carpeting, earth, even clouds, not kneeling on a checkered floor.

Contrasted with her dress, I almost feel like that floor is a magnet, the only thing keeping her grounded and tied to reality. It's a touchstone and anchor. It's Kansas. She's subservient and bends to it, because if she breaks contact with the floor she might just float off, to the other side, never to be retrieved.

Michele

I always though that photo was meant to represent Stevie on the chessboard from Alice in Wonderland.

vivfox 02-28-2011 07:09 PM

To me, the meaning of "one for the way you walk," is the way you live your life. How one conducts themself. The 'walk' of life.

GoldDustOrphan 02-28-2011 10:47 PM

The photo on the Rooms on Fire single is such an odd choice, but somehow the right choice. I prefer it to the cover of the album, which had better out-takes than what was chosen. The airbrushing on her face removed her humanity, but unlike the ROM single, I don't think that was the intent.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1...akecollage.jpg

mikebise 03-01-2011 08:52 AM

The "Rooms On Fire" cover is stark and vivid. Up close. Look at Stevie's eyes. It's like she's trying to convey through her eyes what she really feels, just like the lyrics on The Other Side Of The Mirror.

"Alice" is my favourite song on the album, and in my favourites of all of Stevie's songs. The "Rooms On Fire" cover is really the "Alice" cover for me. Lost in the Wonderland...

Old Man Wise 03-01-2011 11:32 AM

Thanks for posting some "red-dress" outtakes... Stevie on the couch reminds me of Janis on the cover of Pearl – without the smile.

I have an import of the lp MIRROR which has a hologram pasted on the upper right hand side of the cover. We have been discussing how intense Stevie looks for the album art... but this hologram starts out intense and ends with a smile - if you turn it from left to right. I love this hologram and it would have been terrific if it was released as a limited edition lp which covered the whole album... very mirror-like.

KarmaContestant 03-01-2011 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldDustOrphan (Post 946819)

Damn it, Herbie. Release a book already.

Christopher 03-01-2011 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant (Post 946902)
Damn it, Herbie. Release a book already.

Though there are soooo many missed opportunities in Stevie's career, Stevie & Herbie should have finally put out that oft talked about coffee table photo book of their work together coinciding with the release of Crystal Visions. It seems like it should have been a no brainer. With Stevie's blessings Herbie was already doing those calendars. Whats hurt the project no doubt is Stevie and Herbs on and off relationship the last 20 years.:(

mikebise 03-01-2011 04:12 PM

For so long, I never caught the smile on the hologram, only the most intense shots. Then, one day I was moving here in Dallas in 1997, and the sun shone just right on the hologram, and there was Smiling Stevie!!!! :)

priestofnothing 03-01-2011 05:59 PM

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...uttake_150.jpg
another outtake

starshine 03-01-2011 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldDustOrphan (Post 946819)
The photo on the Rooms on Fire single is such an odd choice, but somehow the right choice. I prefer it to the cover of the album, which had better out-takes than what was chosen. The airbrushing on her face removed her humanity, but unlike the ROM single, I don't think that was the intent.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1...akecollage.jpg

I really have liked these outtakes. I love the pictures of Stevie sitting and the blue shawl one too. Which if these are Mirror outtakes than some were used for Timespace than just like I believe some where used for Mask as well. (For those that have the tourbooks to Mask/TS) I do wish for a coffee table book. Another release that could've been done. Heck do it in more than one volume since I'm sure there are many many outtake pictures from Stevie with just Fmac to Stevie solo.Its a shame it appears many will not ever be seen. :shrug:

Old Man Wise 03-02-2011 01:15 PM

Mirror Photos!
 
Mike...
Have you noticed on the hologram that Stevie's hairstyle doesn't match the cover?
Does anyone have the original photos which make up this hologram? Would love to see a contact sheet from this session.

Also, priest of nothing just posted Stevie wearing the red dress with a crystal ball... would love to see a high res COLOR version of that one!

If Herbie ever releases a calendar again, perhaps he should include 12 outtakes from Stevie's album covers!

Ghosty 03-02-2011 01:58 PM

This is a great discussion of the album. I didn't have any Stevie fan friends or connections back then so never really heard anything about OSOTM when it came out. I was not into Rolling Stone magazine either, and never seemed to see SN or reviews of her new cd in any rock mags around '89 like I did in the 70's to early 80's.

I loved a few songs on OSOTM, but was kind of disappointed in it. It seemed so very different for a Stevie album. Songs like I Still Miss Someone, with it's circus sounding music,or Cry Wolf, which sounded like something I'd hear on my parents easy-listening radio stations. But there were some songs I loved, like Rooms On Fire. I liked Alice but it seemed an odd song for Stevie. It was kind of mellow in music. But the words, that caught me. The choice of songs and it's production really threw me for a loop. I couldn't believe as years went on how Stevie would say it was her favorite album and her best. I would be like - are you kidding?! Now I see the gem of it though. But also think it was her romantic involvement with Rupert while she was making the cd that made her love it so much. But - that ended in yet another rejection. The guy went back to his wife, didn't he?

I thought it was kind of a sad, depressing album all in all. I was like 18 at the time and so I think I was wanting more upbeat or mystical old Stevie that I was used to. But then in my 30's when I listened to it, I liked it so much more. Even Cry Wolf, which I did not care for when it came out, I now love. For me, I had to "age" and live a bit more to get the album. I was not jaded back when it came out. It was kind of lost on me. And I didn't know of Stevie's personal life back then either. After my 30's rolled around, I had been jaded enough in life to grasp it and get it. It's a very grown-up album, for me anyways. I can see now why it did not appeal to me much when it came out and I was still young, naive, and had lots of dreams.

Ever since I started hearing about her life, it seems like she must have such deep pain buried inside. Maybe she's finally released it and moved on, but I don't know. Seems like she has this pattern of loving a man, then she gets pregnant and they could care less. Or she doesn't get pregnant, but they end up leaving her for another woman. Then they marry that other woman and have babies with them. Yet she acts like she still adores them all and is great friends with them and acts as if they are still "loves" in a sense. It seems like such an act. If she truly believes it, it's like she has worked that scenario up in her mind until she was able to convince herself of it to make herself feel better - and look better. But how can all that not bother you? Rejection sucks. And to be pregnant and have the guy not care and say go get an abortion if you want, whatever. But then the guy goes and marries another woman and does have children with her. That has got to hurt you to the bone. It has to be devastating. I know we all go through heartache and broken relationships, but we don't all act as if we are fine about it and best friends with them now, and it's all super great. We admit when it still hurts, or when we still can't stand seeing a certain person. Stuff like that. I feel like Stevie was hurt so much but put on an air about it so she didn't look like the girl who got dumped and who didn't have control of the situation and was rejected.

I know she has admitted the pain of losing someone, and her great love of Joe Walsh. Didn't she once say Mick was her great love too? But like with Lindsey and Don, Tom, and others, it seems like she went out of her way to remain in contact with them, work with them, and act like they still have such a love connection, and that she is friends with or likes their wives and their kids. Just seems very odd, unnatural even. Is it just me who thinks that?

Do we know of any of her boyfriends who were upset over her not having the baby? Didn't she or Don say in that case he was fine with the thought of an abortion?

So with her coke addiction, and her rejections, and abortions, and issues with management, and her career, OSOTM comes across pretty heavy. I see the intensity and value of it and like it now. But as a teen, I saw it just as depressing and kind of dull. Has anyone else liked it better as they got older and had more experiences and been through more rough times?

Sanne2 03-02-2011 03:27 PM

Here's the OSOTM-hologram:
http://i.imgur.com/uA1WA.jpg http://i.imgur.com/6AWjx.jpg

They are indeed not part of the photoshoot that was used for the cover, but from another photoshoot that was used for pics in the tourbook, like this shot:
http://i.imgur.com/E4b5t.jpg

I also came across another OSOTM-hologram but I have no idea where this one was used for:
http://i.imgur.com/rEwry.jpg

mikebise 03-02-2011 03:58 PM

Alicia posted that last shot with the crystal ball on my Facebook page a few weeks ago ~ I'd never seen it before!

Even "I Still Miss Someone", a song she'd loved for over 20 years, had lyrics that were pretty sad, about lost love.

"Well, I wonder if he's sorry
For ending what we had begun...
Well, there's someone,
Someone for me somewhere...
Well, I still miss someone..."

He ended it. Joe. And she still loves him...


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