Why was Stevie the breakout star?
 

I saw a comment on youtube which made me think; why did Stevie Nicks have the most solo success out of all the Fleetwood Mac members?

The youtube comment was "If Lindsey's production was so brilliant, and a key reason why Fleetwood Mac was so popular, why wasn't his solo work the most successful?"

Which really struck me, I don't know why, but it just made me think... Why Stevie? Lindsey was the better musician, Christine the better singer, yet, Stevie was the most successful. She's the one who, even today, sparks the most interest from the media; and often gets the most recognition. I see Stevie refered to as the Queen of Rock and Roll, while no one else from Fleetwood Mac gets such an individual platitude. As a group, they might get called "Legendary" or some such, but, as solo artists, it's Stevie who gets all the adulation.

This isn't a Stevie vs Lindsey vs Christine thread or anything, I'm just rather curious as to why it was Stevie who was, and still is, the most popular, why she alone managed to sell multiple platinum records both within the confines of the group and as a solo star.

Sex appeal. Out of the three she was the one who was most marketable. Stevie was the weak link, if you will and she was courted as such. The reason I say weak link - Lindsey was not into helping her craft her songs so much by the late '70s and since she was the one in front strutting it, I think Christine & Lindsey both sorta rolled their eyes at her a bit. It wasn't unnoticed by people who could make money off her. When she was approached, she went for it. She was fortunate enough to be surrounded by some good, solid people in the early stages. In Jimmy Iovine, she had a great producer and she had great backing musicians and they created a perfect sound for her. It paid off, giving her chart success. MTV came along during this time too and I think her videos were in heavy rotation. Stevie was able to keep her face and name out there by doing both gigs. Smart, smart move.

Christine was never interested in being a solo artist enough to really make a go of it, but I think she could have.

Lindsey was not interested in making mainstream music enough to have made his solo career more successful. But, he totally could have.

In the end, I think it is more fun to be in a band and easier. A lot of the pressure is off and you can lean on the strength of others more. But, Stevie likes to be on the road so she gets to go out as much as she wants having when the Mac isn't touring. She's got a pretty sweet deal really.

Hmmm....
 

Well I dont agree with part of your comment above. I believe that Stevie is the best singer in Fleetwood Mac. She may not have that smooth honey voice but her voice has always been the most interesting and unique. To me, that is what make someone stand out in the crowd. That along with her being smokin hot. lol

Well, as someone who witnessed Stevie's stardom in "real time," I think that she, as well as any of the other notably successful performers of the past, was basically in the right place at the right time with the right product. What Stevie managed to do was to completely distinguish herself from her rocking female peers. She wasn't a chick trying to act like a dude. She wasn't trying to paint herself in neon colors and call herself "new wave." She was a woman who wanted to rock hard, but only on her own terms- as an uber-feminine goddess who could bat her eyelashes at you whilst kicking you to the curb with one of her platform boots. She's always played up this kind of duality- a mash-up of genres and stereotypes. She was the ditzy blonde who was a terrific songwriter with an intense artistic side. She introduced chiffon, lace and shawls to rock and roll. She was Victorian hippie chic. She looked like a porcelain angel but had this throbbing, smokey, expressive voice, the likes of which nobody had heard before. In the early 80s she became the "it" girl- the antidote to disco divas, sappy ballad singers and schmaltz. She was an original; there has been nobody before or since who could write songs or sing like Stephanie Lynn Nicks.

By contrast, I don't think Lindsey had as much to offer as a solo artist. A male guitarist and songwriter singing pop songs. Hmm... okay. His early singles like "Trouble" and "Holiday Road" were pleasant and catchy enough, but there was nothing else about him that was particularly engaging from an artistic standpoint. He has never been a great lyric writer. He has never come across as being particularly open or likeable as a person. There was nothing about him that distinguished him from the crowd other than the fact that he was that dude who sings in Fleetwood Mac. This is a man who is at his best when he works with others who can broaden his artistic vision (much like Stevie), but as a solo artist he is insular and doesn't seem to be aware of his own limitations. There is no doubt in my mind that with the right set of songs and the right collaborators, Lindsey could have been a much bigger solo artist.

Christine is... Christine. She was very, very good at what she did- writing songs and playing keyboards. But as a vocalist she tends to disappear among the throngs of belters and octave-leaping wailers. She has just about the most beautiful tone of any singer I've ever heard, but she doesn't seem to be able to do very much with it, which is perfectly fine with me. But to the world at large her music comes across as "dull." And to be honest her public persona is dull too. She is intensely guarded about her personal life and she doesn't come across as being particularly warm and inviting, especially on stage. If anything, she has the kind of dry British humor that some will get and others will find off-putting or aloof. She's never been particularly engaging as a live performer and she has never been a show(wo)man. She has never shown a hunger for stardom and her lack of commercial success as a solo artist is the consequence.

Stevie was different, unique, and had a voice and style that had never been seen before - the songs were odd, opaque, with hooks and lyrics and structures that were unlike anything we had encountered, but were engaging. The voice was raw, untrained, conforming to no standards of female vocal stylings, and yet capable of expressing a lot with very little. She conveyed a very different type of femininity, a kind of lost and haunted yet in-your-face combination of weakness and strength, frailty and power, using a broken voice to sing songs full of cryptic and abstract images that somehow managed to make sense at a subconscious level. For a while, she really did it her way, went against the grain, and managed to change the public perception of how a female pop artist can possess allure and mystique. All that started to sag later on, but at the beginning, she was something totally fresh. This is my personal take on why I became fascinated with her from the start, although she has really tested my faith with a lot of her solo work, and her sparse output over time, for sure.

As Ru Paul would say, Stevie used her...

Charisma, Uniqueness, Nerve & Talent

...to ensure she was the breakout star.

In those days. She was just so different, and engaging.....Totally unique:nod:

Mick

nicer boobs than Christine? She was the girl every guy dreamed of and every girl wanted to be?

Her voice is not great technically speaking, but it is incredibly unique and expressive and cut through the music rather than floating on top of it. No one else sounds like her. Combine that with her "getup" (the shawls, the mystery, the witchiness, the sexiness) and more than a modicum of talent in songwriting, and she was already set to be the standout in 1975.

Even back in the day when I was 10 and Fleetwood Mac was on the radio, it was "Dreams" that I liked the best. I love the other songs and Christine and Lindsey's solo output, but neither ever gave me the feeling of urgency that I needed to a) buy it right now or b) discover more about them.


As Tori Amos once sang, "is her power all in her club sandwich?" Yes. Stevie had the meat, the cheese, the lettuce, the whole stack.

Pretty much sums it up succinctly.:thumbsup:

I still like to think of it in terms of "the meek shall inherit the Earth"...

Stevie waited tables, cleaned houses, as well as a variety of odd jobs supporting Lindsey's ass for YEARS!

I like to think of it as karma paying off for her hard work.

This, of course, is just my opinion. There are thousands of more logical reasons why she was the breakout star, I'm sure.

Interesting question, Artemis. First, while you may be correct in your assessment, I disagree- I believe that SN is a superior singer to Christine, and actually, by far. I think many people may agree with you on that point, however- so, to each their own. I don't know that there's a correct answer to that particular question, really.
I think SN's being the breakthrough 'star of Fleetwood Mac' comes down to the much-used and sometimes maligned phrase 'star quality'. She just had it. Has it. While there are many pretty and/or beautiful women singers, it's less common to encounter a charismatic stage presence, and SN had charisma to burn. It's generally (maybe?) thought of as a male trait, charisma, but SN had it, every bit as much in her own way, as did Jim Morrison. - From this little chick- which made it all the more astounding.
Like Motown producer Suzanne DePasse once said of somebody else, regarding star quality, it is hard to define, you can't bottle it, but you know it when you see it and know when someone has it, and they have it even on their worst night.
The ability of Stevie Nicks to command attention amidst the great musicians in Fleetwood Mac with her presence alone was a big factor- add in her unique voice, sexy vibe, and at the time, a totally original stage persona rock audiences loved- and there is part of the answer to your question. Also, 'Rhiannon' as a centerpiece of Fleetwood Mac's 70's concerts was pretty darned smart of SN, along with all else that was great about the song, it was unique in creating a character: While not an actress, Stevie created a character with Rhiannon and was able to disappear completely into 'her' and the two became one, and few female singers at that point had taken that approach to being a rock singer. Rhiannon, I think, made Stevie a star, at first. Janis Joplin never had a character other than herself in her songs, she was Janis singing 'Piece of My Heart' or 'Ball and Chain'- Stevie Nicks morphed into 'Rhiannon' and created a persona in that one song that was different than her Stevie Nicks persona singing along to 'Over My Head' or 'You Make Loving Fun' or 'Station Man'-- so audiences felt like they were getting both Stevie Nicks in her ensemble work singing backup, and then this space-goddess-chick, an alter-ego who would come to life during 'Rhiannon' and blow everyone away.
She just had it.

I'd say Stevie's got the more interesting and unique voice out of her and Christine, although Christine might be a technically "better" singer if that makes sense? I just wrote that in my intro post because I was trying to appear as unbiased as possible :laugh:

As it's 5am, I won't elaborate now, but, I'll post my thoughts on this tomorrow, I've been thinking about it a lot since I made the thread :laugh: (how sad is that?)

^Context, Artemis, Context! :)

Your one sentence you partially quoted from me was the least significant to me in what I put a lot of thought into! It kind of figures and serves me right! You think these words just happen? :)
I have now bolded what was actually the point of me answering you, which was not to debate whether SN or CM was the 'better' singer! That is in the ear of the beholder, and like I wrote, you may be correct!

While contemplating what you wrote, I tried to answer your question, and actually, think I nailed it. 'Charisma' is the answer, to narrow it down to one word. 'Creating a character' in 'Rhiannon' separate from what she did when singing with the rest of the band expounds somewhat on that.
It happens to me all the time, so, of course, quote whatever you like- and thanks for the thread! Bolded below is what I choose to point out is the reason why I wanted to respond to your query.

Interesting question, Artemis. First, while you may be correct in your assessment, I disagree- I believe that SN is a superior singer to Christine, and actually, by far. I think many people may agree with you on that point, however- so, to each their own. I don't know that there's a correct answer to that particular question, really.
While there are many pretty and/or beautiful women singers, it's less common to encounter a powerhouse charismatic stage presence, and SN had charisma to burn. It's generally thought of as a male trait, charisma, but SN had it, every bit as much in her own way, as did Jim Morrison. - From this little chick- which made it all the more astounding.
The ability of Stevie Nicks to command attention amidst the great musicians in Fleetwood Mac with her presence alone was a big factor- add in her unique voice, sexy vibe, and at the time, a totally original stage persona rock audiences just loved- and there is part of the answer to your question. Also, 'Rhiannon' as a centerpiece of Fleetwood Mac's 70's concerts was pretty darned smart of SN, along with all else that was great about the song, it was unique in creating a character: While not an actress, Stevie created a character with Rhiannon and was able to disappear completely into 'her' and the two became one, and few female singers at that point had taken that approach to being a rock singer. Rhiannon, I think, made Stevie a star, at first. Stevie Nicks morphed into 'Rhiannon' and created a persona in that one song that was different than her Stevie Nicks persona singing along to 'Over My Head' or 'You Make Loving Fun' or 'Station Man'-- so audiences felt like they were getting both Stevie Nicks in her ensemble work with the band with her singing backup, and then this space-goddess-chick, an alter-ego would come to life during 'Rhiannon' and blow everyone away.
She just had it.

Stevie loves bringing this up to play the martyr. Give me a break. Neither of their families was by any means hurting for money, so I seriously doubt she was "supporting" anyone. At best, she probably waited tables a few days a week to supplement their monthly allowances from mom and dad for their pot habit.

I know that's not exactly the topic at hand, but I've always found this story of hers to be very annoying and worthy of an eye roll. :rolleyes:

True, especially since she left (the whole Destiny trip) and Richard and Lindsey were still keeping up rent payments on the apartment and she admits that she had to "eat crow" and ask him to come back. Lindsey couldn't have been that dependent on Stevie for income, if he and his friend were able to keep the apartment and eat without her being there and she was the one who had to ask them to take her back in.

Michele

^^Maybe, Brad! But pot was very, very cheap in the early 70s, from what I have been told, and by associations alone, marijuana would have been all around them. I doubt they had to buy much pot on their own to have it around. I think SN's jobs paid for some stage frocks (certainly, her BN blouse she wound up not needing!) and maybe just for groceries, rent and some studio time, be it in a rehearsal facility or recording.
Like you wrote, though, SN and LB's parents didn't exactly have Skid Row as their residences, but perhaps like many 'old folks' of that generation, didn't really throw money at S&L left and right,to 'teach them the value of a dollar' or what have you.
SN probably did need to work the odd jobs. Plus, it may have been a relief for her to get away from an apartment full of - as Reese Witherspoon as June Carter Cash said on a tour bus: 'all these stinkin' myen!'

Her music speaks to millions of people. I personally don't know why, but it does.

What makes some kids in high school the most popular kids? Why do some people at your job get promoted & treated so well by the boss? Some people have charm. Some people are magnetic. Some people attract other people. Some people are liked by everybody. Maybe they're sexy. Maybe they're funny. Maybe they're sweet. Maybe they're smart.

Stevie Nicks is -- or was -- a fox. When you have a fox in rock & roll, you're gonna have a popular person. When your fox sings & dances & wears clothes well & has a sexy, alluring whiskey speaking voice & has big, brown eyes & a pouty mouth, your fox is gonna be the biggest star on the stage.

When your fox writes weirdly pretty songs & surrounds herself with romantic trappings & talks about how writing her poetry is the most important thing to her, your fox is gonna be the eternal object of cult adoration.

because she is AWESOME of course :thumbsup:....

Her looks didnt hurt, but I think her writing style and the way she performed connected with people in a way that the others didnt. Christine is very talented but to most people she was soft pleasant love songs and nice piano not much else (although I personally could listen to her talk for hours with her british sense of humor) Lindsey on the other hand is a very exciting performer but his solo stuff seemed to turn a lot of people off. I remember my older sister had friends who really liked the song Trouble but when they got the album they didnt like anything else. In hindsight, I think with an outside producer to help him Lindsey could have had a solo career as successful as Stevie. The control freak in him would not allow that though. We should ask Mick, he said in his book he knew from the beginning she would be a megastar.

She was different. She didn't try to be one of the boys. She was the first feminen but strong female rock star. She created a character that was totally different. Lets face it, nothing about Stevie Nicks should work. She doesn't dress, sing or write songs like anyone. That is the magic of Stevie Nicks. If you think about, Kiss created a character, David Bowie had Ziggy Stardust. She was the only woman and she had the songs to back it up. Joni Mitchell seemed like she wanted no part of stardom. Janice Joplin almost seemed like a male and who would want her life. Tina was getting the crap knocked out of her. Carly and Carole King seemed uncomfortable with their stardom. Stevie owned hers.

Stevie to me had the whole artist package really she just shines when you see her your focused on her and out of all the people of FM She stands out like the north star really. She has a presence that few people have that your glued to her, her beauty, music, vocal sound,song writing everything about her just radiates. I have been hooked on Stevie and FM since I was 9yrs old back in 1979 and bein seeing her live in concert since 1986 when I was 16yrs old now 4o yrs old and still going to her shows and was one of the lucky to have met her at the barnes and noble signing of her soundstage cd/dvd in NYC 2yrs ago was a special moment in my life to say I have met my rock n roll legend my favorite singer songwriter she is just so special person to me among everyone here on this board. Stevie was destined to be a singer/songwriter it is with in her to be a rock star with our with out being in FM she is a destined person.

IDK, I get the sense that Jess & Barbara, esp. Barbara, handed Stevie a heavy dose of tough love. Yes, she may have gotten some money from them here and there when Stevie came up short, but by no means do I believe that it was a steady stream. Stevie has said over the years, her family was not there to support her unless she was in college working towards a degree. When she dropped out, so did the steady support. I strongly suspect Lindsey was by far the more spoiled of the two.:cool:

It wouldn't surprise me if she was lying to her Dad about going to college and using the tuition money to support them. :laugh:

I think I had the same reaction to not only Law and Order, but Tusk too, but in hindsight I wouldn't change them. I would just change me -- and I did change.

Michele

Been there. Done that. My poor wonderful, dad. Hope he hasn't found out in heaven everything I hid from him in life!:lol: I did attend college. I just didn't apply the money he gave me each month to school, as he intended!

Michele

Yes, they tried. But if you call home crying in an emergency, you probably get bailed out -- as in the plane ticket home from Aspen. I'm sure Barbara was a tougher sell than Jess. They didn't have cell phones then that allow you to reach exactly the person you want, so I could just see Stevie trying to call home at times when she knew her dad would pick up the phone and not her mom!

Michele

In almost honesty, Stevie worked the hardest to be the star and she sorta deserves her success. She has made really good connection. The fact that she is connecting Glee and mentioning Twilight shows how smart she is.

this is such an awesome sum up of stevie's foxiness! lol.

Agree. Stevie has a certain "aura" that you either have or you don't. It draws people to you; they feel like something interesting always happens around this person and they want to be part of it.

Also, Stevie always seemed the most accessible. She was friendly, gregarious in the press, she totally comes across as someone you want to sit and have a beer, or a cuppa, with, and you know you'd have a great time yapping away and laughing and all that. Lindsey... not so much. Much more intense, serious, at times brooding.. not to say he doesn't have a lighter side but really, it doesn't come across in interviews and his public utterances and such. It also translates in their music. Stevie's songs may be messy and technically less than perfect a lot of the time, but what they have is HEART, they really speak to people, they resonate with what is happening in your own life. Lindsey focuses sooo much on technical perfection and takes a much more intellectual approach to his music that sometimes (esp a lot of the solo stuff) can come off as cold. Who can relate to lyrics like "reading the paper/read a review/said I was a visionary/but nobody knew?" versus something like "I still look up/when you walk in the room" or "don't say that she's pretty/and did you say that she loved you/baby I don't want to know"? Stevie just always, TO ME anyway, spoke to more universal experiences, things that everyone can relate to.

Christine, whom I love and I think wrote songs that were BOTH technically excellent AND universal in their themes, was just far more reserved personally and you didn't always feel like you knew her as well.

I think it's interesting that the Lindsey solo album people always say they love is Out of the Cradle, and he had Richard Dashut work on that with him...and his most successful songs are with FM... maybe he needs that outside influence on his music.

I don't know, but if I had to vote who to hang out with while they were making an album, I'd vote for Stevie. Way more fun.

Why was Stevie the breakout star?
 

Stevie is one hot Mama. It's a simple as that. ;)

Oh, and she wanted it. Stevie's the only one who really wanted stardom. The others, except maybe Mick, didn't crave it like an addiction the way she did.

I think Lindsey wanted it, in a way. Recognition, if nothing else.

Like others have said, the simple answer is charm. And that encompass a whole menagerie of qualities.

Because Lindsey like to experiment too much. He uses his solo career as a means to get experimentation out of his system. Stevie found a great producer, Jimmy Iovine, who was very commericial when it came to rockers. She wanted to be the breakout star anyway. She tried harder.

Yes! She owned it. She is a Gemini with Aries rising. A true rock and roll ballerina. Beautiful and feminine, she also has a "very male" side to her. She has a corporate hook from her dad too. She loves what she does, wanted to be successful and accepted too. Her lyrics are quirky and whimsical, not always very feminine, but interesting to read and listen too. Her voice is truly unique, but not trained. She is a great determined performer and has stayed true to herself for close to 40 years. She is a unique lady who makes money by doing what she loves to do.

Add this to the FM unique and talented mix, someone has to come out on top. It's such a mix of talent, but I think that Stevie won the "performer" prize.

I don't wanna be a cleaning lady...I wanna be a STAR
 

Oh Stevie's written plenty of stuff nobody but her can relate to. ;)

Stevie has the IT factor that only certain people have. Add in her unique voice, cute, girly personality, rock and roll leanings, songwriting with all sorts of interesting influences, flowy, showy wardrobe, onstage mystery and bammo...you have a STAR! Not a cleaning lady. Hehe.

Wanted it and had what it took to get it. The rest of them just rode her coat-tails.

FM was around many years before Stevie. They rode each other.

Most talented, uniqueness, sexuality, writing ability, story teller, sweetness, and did I mention most talented?
I'm not suggesting that all of the FM members didn't share the same qualities. Stevie just excelled at all the qualities.

I think that the main reason why Stevie became the most successful performer was her ability to connect with the audience. When you go to one of her shows you don't feel like you are in a crowd with a bunch of people. It is truly a moving experience that stays with you. Because she was able to make that bond with her fans early enough in her career, people were able to connect and stay with her throughout the years. I also feel that she is extremely personable and empathetic. She may be a bit jaded but she does have an ability to be extremely connected with her audience and others. From everything that I've seen I would totally want to hang out with her. She just seems like someone who you would meet and then instantly become friends with:). She totally has the whole package of being a star but without the arrogance of someone like Lindsey Buckingham. As for Christine...I don't think Chris wanted to be the breakout star. I think she was perfectly happy sitting behind her piano and just singing her heart out. Which is great. But Stevie wanted more....and if there's anything I learned about Stevie through her interviews is that when she wants something...everyone better get out of the way:lol:. So she wanted it, worked hard and got it.

Amen. :thumbsup:

IMHO the two most overall talented members of Fleetwood Mac ever are Peter Green and Lindsey Buckingham.The thing that Stevie was able to do that no one in the band past or present was able to do nearly as well was to carve out a distinct personae that tied in with her first hit .Her music and image have since then complemented each other and that plus her connection with her audience accounts for her larger following to this day.She also had that indefinable asset known as star quality ..something that can't really be learned .bought or faked.