Debate about Say You Will being Rumours or Post-Rumours in this thread
 

So it seems that my nominations thread got taken over by various Ledgies discussing the issue of whether or not the Say You Will album should be considered Post-Rumours or Rumours. In order to maintain the integrity of the Fleetwood Mac "Battle of the Songs", I have created a new thread for the above "discussion" ;)

You have been warned. I will stay out of this thread and lay no claim to what happens. :nod:

Have fun...:)

rumours, because christine is on there!

Rumours era Rumours Rumours Rumours:laugh:

Hey I added a poll for this thread! Enjoy!!!:D

I would only consider it post Rumours if they brought someone "new" in the band. Seeing as no member was replaced, just minus one member... I would leave it as is.

Since Thrown Down already appeared on a Rumours poll....

Looking at the separate forum categories here at The Ledge, under Rumours it says 'Mick Fleetwood, Lindsey Buckingham, John McVie,Stevie Nicks, and Christine McVie'. Under Post-Rumours, it says 'Billy Burnette, Rick Vito, Bekka Bramlett, and Dave Mason'. I think that makes it clear about where you should discuss particular members (aside from their solo careers). That doesn't mean that I think SYW is Post-Rumours Or Rumours. It would be a good idea to make another category such as Post-Dance-'Lindsey Buckingham, Stevie Nicks, Mick Fleetwood, John McVie.' At this point, though, the board setup leans toward discussing SYW as a Rumours era album.

I think we should have dozens of different Ledge categories, or boards, each reserved for a different Fleetwood Macster body part, & each with its own degree of intensity of moderating: from low to high.

I want to post where Jannie lets me get away with murder!

Using that logic, then we should discuss BTM as Rumours because Mick, John, Chris & Stevie are in that lineup.

Ok, here's my white flag of surrender and a "compromise solution", change the categories as such (borrowing a similar format from the Allman Bros Band's message board):

(note that this takes the RUMOURS as a benchmark totally out of the picture, no Pre-, Post-, Over Under Sideways or Down...The Ledge seems as Rumours fixated as the band themselves are)

Current Fleetwood Mac (then within that have separate sections for Mick, John, Lindsey, Stevie)

Historic Members of Fleetwood Mac: (then within that category, subcategory sections each for Peter, Jeremy, Danny, Bob Welch, Christine, Billy, Rick)

Other Past Members of Fleetwood Mac (subcategories each for Bob Brunning, Bob Weston, Dave Walker, Dave Mason, Bekka Bramlett)

Mini-Mac: (the people who have augmented the basic band's lineup in concert. Nigel Watson, Doug Graves, Bobby Hunt, Brett Tuggle, Neale Haywood, Carlos Rios, Tako, Assante, Sharon Celani, Lori Perry Nicks, Eliscia Wright, Jana Anderson, etc)

Crew: (their concert "keepers"...Ray Lindsey (Lindsey's guitar tech), etc)

Music: subcategories, Trading of Recordings, Live Show Recording Requests, Spare Tickets, Shop Talk (for musicians to share techniques, gear talk, etc)

Chit Chat

The Ledge Boards

This.

For me, Rumours constitutes Christine Lindsey and Stevie contributing vocals and/or lyrics. Because Christine's vocals are on the album, I personally consider it to be Rumours Era FM.

When you remove Lindsey and Stevie from the equation is when I think it starts getting complicated. Even though it goes against all my FM related Morals, it's just something I can't control :laugh:

Nothing is ever neat about Fleetwood Mac. It's one of the reasons I love this band.

I consider Say You Will Rumours-era in a way I don't Behind the Mask. I know this makes little sense from a purely logical perspective. But the album seems to have been such a clear outgrowth of The Dance that I have difficulty separating the two--even in Christine's absence.

If, however, this sans-Christine lineup makes another studio album, then I'd be more inclined to see this as a distinct configuration of the band, one that would need a new Ledge category.

Bottom Line: I miss you Christine!

Of course Lindsey plays on Behind the Mask, no? So... it has the full Rumours lineup. :laugh:

RE: Chilid's breakdown. I would just change "Current" to "Active"... though after typing it I can see why "Current" is more accurate.

Christine wasn't replaced.

Of course, this isn't an option, but maybe "Pre-Rumours" would be best since it's basically Buckingham Nicks (the very definition of a Pre-Rumours line-up) with the world's greatest rhythm section.

If SYW is considered "Post-Rumours," then Heroes Are Hard to Find should be considered "Post-Pre-Rumours." If we are going to apply one standard to SYW, the same standard has to be applied to the other album that fits into the same category.

Obviously you know where I stand on this very serious issue.

Well that would just totally mess up everything, because FM, pre White album, had nothing to do with Buckingham Nicks.

Christine's tiny cameo's on SYW, don't really constitute her being a real part of the album. I think if you really examine what the categories are intended to be, SYW has to be Post-Tumours.

Post-Pre-Tumours??? Boy, I'm REALLY confused now!:confused:


:lol:

Trying to classify this album made my head hurt after a while. so I just put down who the hell cares

However, I do agree with holidayroad's logic though :nod:

Hmmm...then remind me again what instrument Brett Tuggle plays?

So, other than "TrueFaith77" did anyone else actually read my proposed reconfig of The Ledge categories??

No, it should stay the way it is, its easy to use, and i just made my way around it..

I did, and quite honestly, some parts left me very confused. My proposition goes like this: early blues days (1967-1970), transitional years (1970-1974), Buckingham-Nicks years (1975-1987), Behind the Mask era (1990-1995, but maybe you could think of a better name for it), and present day (1997-present), and artist forums as they already are, another forum for exchanging and requesting vids and MP3s, and Chit Chat

Yes, of course. Because if you squint really hard he's on the cover of Say You Will wearing a blond wig with a red plastic cup in his hand.

To me, I consider it Rumours era for a couple of reasons. But only by the skin of it's teeth.

1) It has 4 of the 5 Rumours era members.

2) More importantly, there are no replacement members to fill in for Christine.

Though Behind The Mask contained 4 of the 5 Rumours members, it had replacement members... which placed it in a thoroughly different category in my eyes. Fleetwood Mac is definitely different without Christine, without a doubt. But I find it considerably less different than the Behind The Mask era.

Look at Fleetwood Mac like a glass of water. If part of the water evaporates, it's still water. But if you add a packet of Kool Aid, it's no longer water :D.

which songs did Brett write? which songs does he sing as the main vocalist? maybe it would help if you look at the eras as not about all different backing musicians, but about songwriters in the band?

i did read your suggested list (and many other suggestions in this thread) and i suddenly have newfound appreciation for division that is currently in place:lol::p

although i still wouldn't change my vote from who cares.:shrug:

Sheryl Crow is singing and playing on a couple of tracks....

Are you sure about that????

It's been quite some time, since I've pulled SYW out, and probably since it was released, since I've read the liner notes, but I think you're wrong...

Yes, I'm sure. She's on Say You Will and Silver Girl.

I read it. It's a move in the right direction. Still, maybe there should just be a section for each album. That way, there would be no doubt about what should be discussed where.

Well, it's been 7 or 8 years since it was released, right? God, has it been that long? Wasn't it 2003, and ITM 2004? And while I did listen to it, for quite some time, it never really qualified for permanent rotation, in my life. I still put it on, probably twice a year. So yeah, I've forgotten some of the minor details of SYW, because it's just not that important of an album to me(or the record buying public).

Not to beat a dead penguin, but it would have been a much better album, IMO, had they trimmed it down to 10 or 12 songs.

I guess it depends on how you mean it.
If you meant it by the band members - it is a completely different thing.