Rumours vs. Tusk
 

Here we go! I want everyone to answer this age old question that was brought up in another thread. I am going with Tusk for many reasons. For me, it is much more enjoyable. It is the true shining moment of every member. Christine has Never Forget, Lindsey has Save Me A Place, and Stevie has Sara. Stevie's songs on this album are just incredible. But so are Christine's and Lindsey's of course. I think that over all, Chris totally makes this album for me. Over & Over, Never Forget and Brown Eyes help to bring together Lindsey's eccentricity and Stevie's darkness. The best way to enjoy Tusk though, is to just listen to it from beginning to end. It is hard to listen to a single song from it, with the exception of a few of course, without playing the next one in order.

Now onto Rumours. Maybe if they didn't play this album to death, and overexpose it to the point that it's damn near meaningless, it would mean more to me personally. Still yet, it is an incredible album also, to say the least. Rumours is nothing but the staple songs of Fleetwood Mac. The Chain has probably become my favorite from it, next to Songbird. Without Rumours, we may not still have them around with what little relevance they do have. At least they have not become just a has-been, and I personally thank Rumours for that.

Tusk still gets my nod...even though I think it's an overblown exercise in narcissistic BS. Should've been a single album, there's an entire album's worth of "filler" that could've been left out and the album most likely would've been infinitely more successful.

Here's how I listen to this 800 lb gorilla of an album (giving it a lap-band to cut it down to chimpanzee size)

side one:
Honey Hi
I Know I'm Not Wrong
Brown Eyes
Sisters Of The Moon
Tusk
Over & Over

side two:
Angel
What Makes You Think You're The One
Think About Me
Save Me A Place
Sara
Never Forget

bonus tracks (in the rare times when I'm in the mood):
Storms
Walk A Thin Line
Beautiful Child
Never Make Me Cry (the alternate "piano" version)
Farmer's Daughter (from disc 2 of the deluxe version)

The whole Rumours phenomena was the worst thing that could've happened to Fleetwood Mac, IMO.

Tusk. Because whenever I listen to Rumours, I get pissed off at the lack of Silver Springs.

I'm going with Tusk. It's weird it's all over the place......I love it. Lindsey just shines in this. Just makes me love him even more. Love save me a place, It's Not That Funny, The Ledge, Walk a Thin Line. All his tracks are Great. Stevie's great here too. Angel, Sara, Storms, Beautiful Child.......Come on:blob2: The only member who's below par.....and I will get flack for this......is Chris. I mean, I love Over and Over and Think About Me. But Brown Eyes and Honey Hi.......are like audio wallpaper. I KNOW they are loved. Lord I know...not by me:sorry: Anyway Still love the album.

I Love Rumours. However for me sometimes it sounds a little too polished, which is the same problem I have with Steely Dan's Aja. If that makes sense. I listen to Tusk far more. My fav double album after The White Album.

Mick

As a musician, I know it's my duty to vote Tusk, but it's just not how I feel. Rumours is an absolute classic pop gem, and the album that changed my life, and cemented my obsession with music. Yeah, from overplay, I pretty much hate it now,:D but it still rules!

And I agree with Chili, Tusk should have been pared down to a single album...those record executives could have had a much better Christmas that year. Everyone could have lost two songs each, and it probably would've fit on a single album.

What he said.

I know I'm supposed to think Tusk is better, because it's 'arty' and represents Lindsey's attempt to take back his presumed loss of creativity - and it works, it does. Tusk is an excellent album. But it's not Rumours.

I'm fairly certain that when Rumours was being recorded, the band was not trying to craft a pop-radio sensation - it just happened to turn out that way. It could easily have been the other way around had Tusk not been a double LP, which really did hurt it's prospects.

In the end, I would prefer to listen to Tusk if that were the choice, but only because I've listened to Rumours so much. In fact I'll put Tusk on right now in all of it's remastered glory.

My vote however has to go to Rumours. The songs are just better; everyone can relate to the subject matter on a personal level, and isn't that how music is supposed to be?

Have you never listened to the 2004 remaster?

Yes, of course I have :lol: I rarely, however, play the mp3 or CD versions of Rumours (namely because I don't have a CD player) so when I have the vinyl on there's no Silver Springs.

Oh, here comes the one disc vs. two-disc debate again. :rolleyes: For me it's obvious that Tusk had to be a double; it's because it wasn't full of hit single material. So, in a nutshell, one could argue that Rumours was "quality vs. quantity" and Tusk was "quantity vs. quality." Indeed Rumours is audiophile perfection. There is not a single note out of place or a spare drum beat or hi-hat. Every single note on every single track was deliberately and painstakingly placed. By comparison, Tusk was a technically sloppy mess full of stray background noises, inhaled breaths, overmodulated parts and stray guitar plucks. If they released a single album that was as technically sloppy as Tusk, they would have been lambasted for being lazy and for rushing to put out an unfinished/unrefined collection to cash in on the Rumours overhang. By having the space of four sides, it allowed them to completely divorce it from Rumours and to chart new artistic territory. It was looser, rawer, and yes, sloppier, but it was also ambitious and spontaneous. They had the space to do ambitious 5-, 6-minute songs as well as knocking out a few concise hit singles. While Rumours wins in terms of commercial appeal, precision and listenability, Tusk wins in terms of depth, complexity and artistry. Rumours is the Pepsi to Tusk's aged Bourdeaux. Both are great for what they are, but Tusk lingers a bit longer on the palette.

But you can't rewrite history, no matter what.

Silver Springs wasn't on Rumours, period. Stevie might not have liked it that way, but that's the way it was. I don't feel it fit on there, anyway. IDWTK fits much better.

Ditto

Mick

I do have valid arguments as to why I love Tusk more, I'm just far too lazy to write them down :lol: The biggie being that I get more Chris :rolleyes: But then Rumours has Songbird... *brain argues with itself*

I have nothing against Rumours, except that I hear the songs too much. If I could listen to both Rumours and Tusk for the very first time, I'd probably like Rumours better, but I can't . . .

By the time I became an FM fan in late 1979, Rumours was already out and overplayed and I just can never imagine what it would have been like to hear it fresh.

In all honesty, if I had to vote, I'd probably say I liked Mirage better than Rumours too:eek:. Although I still enjoy GDW an GYOW in concert, by and large, my ears just don't hear Rumours songs anymore.

Michele

ditto x 100000000000

besides, Silver Springs had two perfect incarnations that fulfilled its potential/meaning/pleasure-making: 1. as a b-side with Go Your Own Way (plus with all that radio play that afforded it) and 2. its triumphant resurrection (and superior rendition) on The Dance.

I hope to join in the fray on this debate eventually, but it's all too huge for me to discuss now.

I voted for Tusk.

[QUOTE=ButterCookie;891166]I do have valid arguments as to why I love Tusk more, I'm just far too lazy to write them down :lol: The biggie being that I get more Chris :rolleyes: But then Rumours has Songbird... *brain argues with itself*[/QUOTE]

Perfectly put. That should also be the name of the next Mac album.

Tusk for me. I love the space and the sound of all the songs. I love trying to find 80 minutes to just sit and listen to it. It doesn't happen often but when I make the time I enjoy it.

Rumours is the perfect pop album, along with Lindsey's OoTC. Everything just fits and works and sounds like it belongs. Not to mention the fantastic sound quality.

In the end it's a close run thing because they are both perfect examples of what they represent. One is the all time classic pop album and the other is an arty masterpiece.

I agree with the fact that Rumours is overplayed. But musically, it's a great album! And iconic in its own way. But for me, the edge goes to Tusk. It's just downright musical GENIUS. There are no weak tracks, and it flows AMAZINGLY......except....the vinyl packaging??????? HOLY SHYTE! It takes me a good hour and a half to put it back together!

I am going with Rumors. Only because if Rumors hadn't come out first then perhaps I would not have even given the Mac a chance to listen to Tusk. At the time Rumors came out it was HOT and mystical. Expecting a Rumors II, Tusk seemed weird at the time. I have bought Tusk as many times as Rumors (Albums/8 tracks/cassettes/ cd's) and Love them both. (actually love Tusk more) but like stated , would of never given the Mac a listen to something that "weird" if it hadn't been for Rumors.

For me its the opposite. FM might have significantly lost popularity if they released a rumours II. At least by creating something original and weird they were able to prove that they're sucess wasn't a fluke without talent.

BTW, Tusk pwns Rumors in every way, shape, and form. Except for Gold Dust Woman, that song is def in my top 5.

Tusk all the way! :D
(I seem to be getting better at splitting hairs nowadays. :))

I vote for Tusk.
Rumours is a fine album, it has great songs, I can't deny that. Like others have said though, it's been done, and done, and overdone to the point where it's hard to go back and listen to it at face value. I've tried going back and listening to it and saying to myself 'Listen to this like you've never heard it before' but that is almost impossible to do.
Tusk is overall an excellent album. It is different in a way that, even now, I can listen to it and get something new out of it. (I still feel that 'Save Me a Place' could have been dropped from it, though! That's the only LB FM song I can't stand.)

If there's one song on Tusk I'm not too fond of it's "That's All For Everyone". I love "Save Me a Place" though.

Ordinarily, I would have voted Tusk but I just remembered how last Christmas, my brother got a record player and we put my vinyl copy of Rumours on it and sat around listening to it that way and I'm giving Rumours my vote today because of that memory. I love me some Tusk but I don't think it would have felt as magical if we had put that vinyl on that day.

Tusk..Stevie's contributions are masterpieces.

Rumours... Sonically it's incredible... and they wrote the songs as a band more than Tusk...

Conceptually however.. both albums have their own distinct character....

This is what Say You Will lacks.... character...

Can't have Tusk and all it's "Tuskness" (to quote Stevie) without Rumours.

I listen to Tusk more now but Rumours is a perfect record.

Maybe it's because Tusk is so imperfect that I enjoy listening to it, enjoy re-imagining certain songs with different arrangements: it allows for space. I also think Tusk is only as "great" a record as it is because it IS a double album. If you pared that suite of songs down to one album it would be unremarkable--even bland--in comparison to Rumours. It's the fact that it IS excessive, messy, and comparatively random that it works so well.

Oh--and I agree with a post above: Stevie's Tusk material is stellar, the only one of the three songwriters who seems to have made career-topping performances on the record. Lindsey and Chris have great moments, but they both soar above their Tusk songs on several other projects.

I go with both.
Both are awesome

Rumours vs. Tusk
 

Many interesting comments.

I personally love Rumours more. I find it to be flawless. Not a weak track. While I love Silver Springs and love having it on the DVD and remasterd CD, I also love I Don't Wanna Know. In fact, I think the next FM show, they should suprise people and open with that song. But not to digress.

I like Tusk too. I think Stevie's songs on both are downright amazing, perfect and flawless. I think Christine and Lindsay's songs are much better on Rumours than on Tusk, in total. There are songs on Tusk that I just don't care for. I love - I Know I'm Not Wrong, Walk a Thin Line, Brown Eyes and Over and Over. But then I don't care for Not That Funny and Honey Hi. And the rest are good but not as great as the tracks on Rumours.

I think also for me - I love Rumours for what it stands for - and that is the heartbreak in their personal lives. And I think others who love Tusk more part love it for what it means - being not a Rumours II.

Lindsey.

Personally, I much prefer Honey Hi to Oh Daddy :nod:

Oh Daddy gave birth to Tusk, I think.

I have to say RUMOURS is it for me. All the songwriters are at their zenith--each was never better than DREAMS, YOU MAKE LOVING FUN, & GO YOUR OWN WAY. All four musicians were at their instrumental zenith in terms of creating perfect parts. The Caillat+Dashut engineering, too, was the most remarkable it's ever been. The flow of the songs & the sounds, the physical package, the compression of the audio signal, the vocal harmonies (new for rock at the time), & the hip way the album bridges the gap between the '60s & the '70s--all combines in so excellent a way that it exemplifies the best pop of the era, like a great Beatles album of a decade earlier.

TUSK is just a great band doing some remarkable screwing around. We love it because we love Fleetwood Mac. But with RUMOURS, you love it FIRST.

I actually heard Tusk before Rumours. Actually before I was even into the Mac.
My Uncle had a copy. I thought wow...how.......Amazing. THEN I heard Rumours. While I loved it. It was still too polished. Almost......Almost a bit rigid. There's not not a question.....It's amazing. But too slick for my tastes. So yea I loved Tusk first.

Mick

So do I and I like Think About Me better than I like anything she did on Rumours.

If I thought that Dreams and YMLF were the best those 2 had to offer, I'd be very sad and desolate. My heart would turn into a small, hard little raisin that rolled unnoticed under the kitchen counter and collected dust and ants for a year or two. Not that I don't love the studio version of Dreams, because I do . . . Just saying.


Michele

Oh crap, I meant to vote for Tusk instead of Rumours.

Anyways, these days, Tusk has a slight edge for me. Don't get me wrong, Rumours is still a fantastic album, but Tusk is a bit like me: strange and off-the-wall, and yet, it manages to be oh-so awesome. It has some of my favorite Stevie songs (Sara, Storms, Angel, etc.) and some great contributions from Lindsey and Christine. IMO, it was a necessary album cause if they made another Rumours, sure they'd have the commercial success and all, but they'd probably wouldn't have lasted as long as they did and not be as well-repsected for their music had they not made it. Besides, all great bands have taken the chance with the double album (Physical Graffiti, White Album, Exile on Main Street, and The Wall are all chances that turned out fantastic), and the Mac should be no exception.

Now, Rumours is great, but it's overplayed so damn much, and when something is overplayed to hell, no matter how great it is, it can get annoying, so that's why I meant to vote for Tusk

?????:confused:

Explain further, David...how did their harmonies differ from the Beatles' (for example, "Because" on Abbey Road) & the Beach Boys' (well, just pick any)??

To me, their harmonies were just culled from those influences (as well as the Every Brothers)

Don't get how their harmonies were "new for rock at the time".

They really DIDN'T last much longer...there was the 2+ year break at the end of the Tusk tour....then another 4+ year break after Mirage...then Lindsey bailed before the '87 tour. If Tusk was THAT important, they would've found it necessary to follow IT up fairly rapidly, and they didn't. What happened is that their "breaks" to do solo projects negatively affected the band....and Fleetwood Mac's popularity waned. Sure, it would spike when they'd release an album, but once the Fleetwood Mac travelling circus came through your town on tour, the interest went away....whereas, from '75 to '81, interest in the band was 24/7, even BETWEEN albums...the build up to the release of Rumours, then the massive tour to back it, then the Rumours "soap opera phenomena machine" was in full-swing....the build up to Tusk and the subsequent tour that dwarfed the Rumours tour. Once the Tusk tour ended...that was the end of Fleetwood Mac-mania as it had been for the previous 6 years. (and the end of their "relevance") Basically, they've been a "cult" band ever since...with a very large "cult" membership.

Rumours for sure :cool:

Tusk !!
 

I voted for Tusk.....as much as I do like or love Rumours for all that it was....I love Tusk because it is different and there's more songs on it....its more special in some ways cause all the songs haven't been played to death like everything from Rumours has been over all these yrs. I can put on Tusk and listen from track 1 to the end I may not love all of them but I can listen to them.....so ....I just love me some Tusk......:thumbsup::angel:

It took me years to appreciate Tusk and fall in love with it, and it gets my vote, hands down.
Rumours is indeed an album full of Mac classics and staples, but I think that's what makes Tusk so much more interesting -- it presents the nuances and less straightforward sides of the band. It's not the basics that every fan should know; it's the subtleties of each songwriter (and they all have wonderful tracks here) that you can sink your teeth into over and over again, each time finding something new.

On another note -- I don't really ever listen to the album Rumours. Having listened to so many live versions of most of these songs, the studio versions sound too polished and, frankly, odd to my ear. Even lifeless, if I'm allowed say that :p
Not to say that detracts from the album itself, it just makes it less appealing that Tusk to sit down and listen to all the way through.

I never listen to Rumours either, but because I hadn't heard it for years (except on the radio), when the DVD-A came out, I found it immensely enjoyable to relive the album again as a whole, in sequence. But I can easily OD on it. It's just been done to death.

Michele

This is me, too. Too many YEARS of listening to it. It's my #1 album ever, which changed my life, but about the 3 millionth listen, and I had to pull the plug.