The Last "Full" Mac Tracks: BTLH & SYHA
 

So I'm listening to the Say You Will album today as I have not done so in a while and when the tracks Steal Your Heart Away and Bleed To Love Her came on I couldn't help but smile. To me, because Christine is on those tracks, the two represent kind of a farewell to the full Rumours line up of the Mac. First off, they both have the classic Mac sound (and yes, I know they are both older songs). But with Ms. McVie's voice and keyboards added into the mix the two tracks, to me, are a nice break in the Buck.Nicks invasion that is Say You Will (and for the record I love the album). I just love the fact that Christine's recordings were kept on those tracks and we at least got another couple songs with the full lineup post-Christine retirement. Anyways, just thought I'd share my 'Mac moment of the day' haha.

it's weird... i don't hear Christine... :shrug:

Me either....my chris senses don't tingle:distress: but apparently she IS in there somewhere

Mick

Really??? The first time I heard those tracks I could spot her voice instantly. Especially in the chorus of BTLH...

Even on the DVD Audio I didn't hear her. :shrug:

Maybe if I could hear her I'd like the studio version of BTLH. I much prefer the Dance version. The studio has that long long noodling guitar solo. The only time i've ever been bored by Lindsey. As for SYHA. Love it, love it.:D

Mick

I can hear her on the oooh parts of SYHA, which I think are near the end of the song. She's also on the chorus of BTLH. Try listening closely to those parts and see if it helps.

Interesting topic. Those are actually my two favorites on Say You Will. When I bought it and listened to it on the day it came out, I distinctly remember feeling "bittersweet" on those two songs because I could clearly hear Chris. I wish they would have reconsidered and let her be on the album.

I can hear Chris as plain as day on the "oohs" in SYHA.

Was it ever confirmed that Christine is playing the keyboards on Murrow? I remember that rumor when SYW came out.

Christine is much more prominent on earlier versions of SYHA (such as the version that was released on the "Best Buy" CD set and the "leaked" version of GOS)...it was almost as if she was "mixed out" of the SYW album version.

I hear her very clear on the "woah oh oh"s in the chorus to Bleed To Love Her & the "oooh"s in Steal Your Heart Away. She's probably singing all the way through both choruses in those songs, but the way the Mac mixes vocals sometimes to get those quiet, breathy harmonies (Down Endless Street, Mystified choruses)probably obscures her even more, ecspecially if her parts were signifigantly "mixed out" as chili mentioned.

I can definitely hear her in both choruses.
I think it's more noticable if you listen to it through headphones and quite loud.

I just put both songs on. I can maybe hear her in SYHA. It's hard to distinguish some of the voices though. In BTLH, however, her voice is clear as day.

Yeah I love the Dance version as well, but I love the ending to the SYW version. Very beautiful. :thumbsup:

I'm gonna be a total chickensh*t and bury my very subjective observation in this thread, and I realize my opinion is only that, a matter of opinion. 'Bleed To Love Her' got me thinking...for all the crap Stevie has taken for some of her lyrics, I think she's head and shoulders above Lindsey as a songwriter. He is a brilliant musician, guitarist, recording studio master, (well, if one chooses to forgive how he murdered 'Smile At You').
But dang, LB has written so many truly lousy songs and doesn't get called on it.
Why have this opinion? 'Lola,My Love'; much of his 'Tusk' material (though I find 'Walk A Thin Line' sublime and maybe his best, ever) just about all of his 'Tango In The Night' material (though I love the title song, it's a killer!) But 'Oh Diane' 'Caroline' and 'Family Man', are all such inferior songs, they make even the most-criticized Stevie songs ('Welcome To The Room, Sara') sound absolutely profound. She has had the airhead label, why the hell hasn't he?
I'm sorry to the LB fans, and I do think he's a big part of what makes Fleetwood Mac great, but I think 70% of LB's songs are vacuous, uninspired, or just forgettable, and I'd say SN 70% of the time will wind up writing something really good. She deserves more credit.
I guess 'Bleed To Love Her' being included on 2 Fleetwood Mac albums reminded me how extremely limited I think LB is as a songwriter.
About 13 years ago, back on AOL, when they had jumping music message boards, I unintentionally started some huge debate that seemed to go on forever when I stated that, in my opinion, Stevie Nicks was "the voice of Fleetwood Mac"... Generally, that opinion didn't go over so well, my favorite response was "She most certainly is NOT. There is no voice of Fleetwood Mac!"
So, all these years later, I'll say now that I think Stevie is the songwriter of Fleetwood Mac. Christine was great, without a ton of misfires. But, I'd still say great as she was, CM had no 'Rhiannon', no 'Silver Springs', no 'Beautiful Child' or 'Sara'... Nor did she or LB have the enduring classics I'm so sick of-- 'Dreams' and 'Landslide'.
Stevie's songwriting just doesn't seem to be recognized as it should be for helping make Fleetwood Mac work so well as a unit, or am I wrong? Yet, CM and LB always seemed to have that built-in respect without question. I know Christine wrote many hits for the band, and is a good songwriter.
But I think Stevie is the unsung songwriting hero(ine) of the band.
Nyet?

Wow, what a ridiculous rant! I won't pick out what parts i disagree with, i'll just disagree with the whole thing! :o

I'll start off by saying that Lindsey is my favorite member of Fleetwood Mac. (obvious, right?). I agree that some of the lyrics from his songs could have been better (or longer). Stevie and Christine's songs tend to tell a story and some of Lindsey's songs have felt more like the lyrics were an afterthought. I feel with Say You Will, Under the Skin, and Gift of Screws, his lyric writing ability (or the effort he put toward the writing) has Greatly improved.

As for Christine, I think her songs are lyrically well written and always have been. She does a great job of having lyrics that seem to be universal. She tends to write about things we've all been through.

Stevie's songs, well, she has some songs with excellent lyrics. Those songs tell a story in an interesting and heartfelt way. Yet, I admit that sometimes, I have absolutely no idea what some of her lyrics are supposed to mean. She often writes cryptic lines to get across a simple point.

Christine was solid and consistent, whereas SN and LB tended to write some pretty polarizing stuff that people either loved or hated. Most people who have very strong opinions about one probably have the opposite strong opinion about the other.

Lindsey's thing has always been the studio. He's said he's not so much a songwriter but a craftsman, or whatever the word was that he used. He comes up with a song, however good or bad it initially is, and he makes it good by doing really interesting stuff to it in the studio. Stevie comes up with very primitive nuggets of songs, and Lindsey takes them and again, makes them interesting. Stevie HAS to be more into the songwriting because other than twirling and screaming her Stevie wails on stage, it's all she has. Lindsey has his studio thing so he can afford to write worse songs.

Me too....you insulted Lindsey.......Ye must die!!!!!!!!! Just kidding:D I respect your opinion, even if i do disagree with it. I will however point out that stevie has had her share of awful stuff too. When i see you again, Welcome too the Room, That's alright, Illume(WTF:shrug:), silver Girl, Straight Back. So we're even:nod: Naw i just have Lindsey bias.:wavey:

Mick

The songs I highlighted are more loved by fans than you think. Stevie's songwriting clunker's, generally speaking judging by the amount of debate & critique on this board and other fan boards, began on "Tango" (except Seven Wonders, which she didn't write) through "Behind The Mask". Which could have been easily remedied, if Fleetwood Mac had chosen to pursue some of Stevies stronger demos for these projects. "Juliet" & "Joan of Arc" are much better compositions, in my opinion, than what was chosen for "Tango". And are up there of the most beloved Stevie demos and outtakes.

Fair enough. The bold songs may be loved by more then I think (and i know they are) but I still hate them lol. but that's just me. I agree about outtakes and demos though good stuff:nod:

Mick

Yes, Stevie has, but, I love every song you listed. I would have to replace those songs with anything written over a Rick Nowels track (who it seems to me has only written one track in his life).

About Lindsey, I couldn't hate "Not That Funny", "Family Man" and any of his Mirage songs any more than I already do, but I think "Red Rover", "I'm So Afraid" and many, many more are masterpieces.

Christine's songs have always been just too "light" for me in general. Just not serious enough. They were always good songs musically, just lacking intensity lyrically. Although I love "Why".

Well that's the beauty of opinions.....I HATE HATE Red Rover:laugh: and I know people enjoy That's alright....but WAY to overt country for me. I hate country. But Alas we have to agree to disagree:xoxo:

Mick

Oh and I love not that funny, but agree about Family man.

For the most part I love Chris songs. Save for Never make me Cry, Brown eyes, and Honey hi.

Mick, I get the impression that you feel about country the same way I feel about dance music, which is why "Everybody Finds Out" makes me want to gouge my own eyes out!

But I do like country-influenced songs, and "That's Alright" is a great song to help you out when you're trying to convince yourself that you don't love someone anymore and that you are capable of moving on.

I just thought of a couple of Christine songs that I just can't deal with ... "Save Me" and "Skies The Limit". Pure torture. Especially "Skies The Limit"; all I hear is "whine, whine, whine". lol

Jim

No. I'd say Stevie is a great songwriter if songwriting consisted of lyrics only. Even then . . .

It was Sara that brought me to FM. I'd heard Rumours and White album songs, but Sara made me want to get the album and find out who the band was.

So I admire her misty lyrics and the ephemeral thoughts they evoke, along with her once passionate and soaring vocals. But I see nothing to exalt her contributions above everyone else's. And I don't think there's anything "unsung" about her. I think her talents are well-recognized, for what they are.

Michele

And the thing about Lindsey is that people often separate the music from the lyrics. I think Time Precious Time is coma inducing, but I can't disagree with those who admire the guitar-playing.

After The Dance aired on tv and people were talking about how great Big Love was, it wasn't the lyrics they were into. No one was claiming that those animal grunts Lindsey made were enthralling. They didn't have to be. The speed, dexterity and emotion of his playing made the words a soundtrack to enhance the music, rather than the other way around.

Michele

Over the years, I've noticed that she largely attracts youth who write poetry (or who read Sylvia Plath & Adrienne Rich--& perhaps Hermann Hesse & Rumer Godden books). There are generalizations one can draw about Stevie's admirers, whereas try to generalize about Christine McVie fans. Who are they? We can cite names of people (me, for one), but do they share specific characteristics in hobbies, proclivities, aesthetics?

It's part of what fascinates me about Chris McVie--to whom & how she speaks. It's very subtle. Walk into a Stevie Nicks fan's bedroom. It isn't very subtle. But walk into a Chris McVie fan's bedroom. What on earth would you expect to see? If you can think of anything, would you lay any odds on it?

I picture Christine fans as being into wearing bootcut Mom jeans with tweed blazers and speaking with a slow, watered-down English drawl. They also tend to like dogs, shag haircuts, flower print scarves and the smell of cigars and leather. They like to spend their leisure moments nursing a hot cider or cup of tea while lounging outside in a large wicker chair.

I see these types everywhere.

You're making fun of me now!!

Did you read the recently posted Healthcare Bill? It's only 2,310 pages in Portable Document Format (PDF).

I gave up after the first page. It triggered a migraine. Luckily, I can still afford Aleve.

I'm English, I adore tea, hate cider (It's all about a good beer), cigars make me cough and I'm currently wearing black drainpipes, a black leather jacket, Mac shirt, converse trainers and I have short cropped blonde hair :D :wavey:

Ok just have to say I hear Chris without a doubt on the bootleg gift of screws version Of BTLH:thumbsup: more then on the say you will version. Just thought I'd Share.

Mick

Yet, I often (weekly, if not daily) see inaccurate generalizations made about Fleetwood Mac fans and these generalizations are mostly based on Christine's songs. She is the main reason people make unkind assumptions about us. I'd say that the two songs that have most negatively pigeon-holed hapless FM fans are: Don't Stop and Little Lies, with the Clinton campaign drilling the nail into any hope we ever had of being able to walk down the street with heads held high.

Michele

You have hit the nail on the head :D My friends hate FM only because of her songs, and her voice. They say it annoys them :shrug: But I guess to us it's normal. And it's normal for us to hear about a Sister Of The Moon or a Red Rover. Don't Stop however is becoming one of my least favorite Chris songs, as is Go Your Own Way and Dreams. If it weren't for demos, I believe I wouldn't listen to them hardly at all anymore after all these years.. And also, I believe FM is hard to divide into parts, but no matter how you divide it Christine just gets obscured. She is more of the pop singer of the group, and the harmonizer. Whereas Stevie is the supreme songwriter and Lindsey is the "craftsman" Still yet, Christine was a major part of the group, and it does annoy me when people say that Stevie is the "lead singer" of FM, even though she is my favorite member. Stevie to me does amazing solo, because once more its hard to divide FM to describe them. They become one person in my eyes, rather than three solo singers.

I don't get what you mean here. It's been made clear by all 5 of them that it was Chris's choice not to do Say You Will and they would have loved her to do it...

Dodfather, I think what was meant was that it had been reported that Christine was willing to be on The 'Say You Will' cd as a full member of Fleetwood Mac, but that she put her foot down and said she absolutely would not tour with the band to support the cd. It was then that the band decided not to have her do the Say You Will cd. That's the way I remember it, though I'm not saying you're wrong.
Stevie was asked in a televised interview why Christine couldn't have done the album like she wanted to and not tour. Stevie replied that "that wouldn't have worked, because what if one of Christine's songs became a hit and then she wasn't there on the tour to sing it?"
I do, however, believe that Christine was allowed to say that it was her decision not to do the album and tour, and it may have been. When it was presented to her that she had to tour, I think that's when she opted out.

Nikolaj is correct. That's how I remember it going down as well. They were afraid if Christine had a hit song they wouldn't be able to perform it because she refused to tour. In hindsight they should have let her contribute to the album. Many of her In the Meantime songs would have flowed well with Lindsey and Stevie's songs, with some cuts of course.

And really, although I don't care that much for Don't Stop (although I loved it on the Dance dvd, with the marching band), I think Christine's songs get a bad rap and really are not as surface or unlayered as the public accuses them of being. So, Little Lies is catchy, but to me it's deeper and not unlayered. It's not like Paul Anka or Neil Sedaka, but people act like it is and that's the category that they throw all FM fans in. Oh, you have no taste. You like sing-songy, mindless pop music!

Well, actually I do have pretty bad taste in music. I actually spent many Saturdays listening to Chuck Cecil's musical retrospective, The Swingin' Years on radio and being thankful for little things like when Shelly Fabares clarified the lyrics to Johnny Angel in an interview! So, I'm no scholar . . . Still, Fleetwood Mac is not an example of my bad taste, it's the exception. That's not the way the public sees us fans though.

Michele

It's odd to me to hear about people disliking Fleetwood Mac because of Christine. Everyone I know who could be considered a 'casual fan' likes FM Because of Christine and her songs. More than one person has said to me that when they think of FM, they think of Christine's songs first.

I love to have you describe how you picture a 'Lindsey fan'.:thumbsup:

What's not to like? Blues shuffle in E.

There was nothing wrong with The Swingin' Years!! It was a great program!! You could kick back in the shade of your avocado tree every Saturday afternoon, dog beside you & bag of rock candy in your lap (or dog in your lap & rock candy beside you), listening to Harry James & his orchestra do "I Had the Craziest Dream." Nothing was more relaxing.

No, they really usually aren't about love sweet love, seems to me. Seem to be more often about disappointment; vulnerability; wistfulness; the very fragile point where a proud person begs and lets her need face down her pride.

Then you have Christine's voice, paired with instrumentation pounding the point home with an eloquence I never heard matched in the likes of "love, love will keep us together. Think of me babe whenever, some sweet talking girl comes along, singing a song . . ."

Michele