Stevie and Lindsey circa Tango In The Night
 

I do not know the history, but "Welcome to the Room Sara" just popped up on my ipod and I was reminded of the interpretation of this song as Stevie wondering what people's reactions will be to her when she gets out of rehab --specifically that of Lindsey. Lindsey and CAH had been broken up. Stevie had gotten clean. FM were making an album. So here's my question:

Was Stevie hoping she and Lindsey would get back together?

Did Klonopin and the pressures/difficulties of the album keep them apart?



p.s. - This may be the silliest thread OP ever. apologies in advance.

I remember my mother telling me once that when Mirage came out, and even Tango, she was surprised. She always thought the band was finished after TUSK.

Reminds me of "Blue Denim":

So, I'm going away for a little while
To remember how to feel
And, if I find the answer
I promise you -
I'll come back and get you

That's depressing. I wonder if a lot of people felt this way.

It does seem like a miracle that they could even be in the same room together after Rumours, never mind Tusk.

I personally think Stevie held out hope. And I also think they had something going on then, due to the interviews that say 'Lindsey and I were over in 1987'. I think an argument between the two of them and sort of snowballed into involving the rest of the group led to the relationship's ultimate demise, and Lindsey walking out on the band. I don't think it was unrelated to the two of them being together, like Stevie and Lindsey imply.

Stevie has said that if not for the Klonopin, Fleetwood Mac might have gotten back together sooner and maybe had more albums. So, even if she doesn't think she and Lindsey would have reunited romantically if things had been different, say, around December 1990, I do think she thinks they would have had a professional relationship again earlier than they did.

Michele

I can see why. Either because they figured Tusk couldn't match/top Rumours in sales, or that it was so good that the band had obviously peaked. I agree with the latter - as much as I liked songs from Mirage and Tango, when it comes to a full album, they never could ~match the beauty again~

I heard she was so screwed up when LB came to do those two shows in '90 she didn't even recognize members of his family. He was terribly upset and worried about her during that time, understandably so.

Her dedication here always kills me:

Holy crap. For some reason that made my heart sink when I read it. I can't even imagine what that would be like.

When I think of the Tango sessions -- the majority of which took place in 1986, not 1987 -- I think of Buckingham, Chris McVie, & the engineers handling the bulk of the work. Fleetwood was drinking & snorting heavily & reportedly not contributing much to the team at that point, John McVie never was crazy about the recording studio, & Nicks was touring her own album (including all the publicity & the concert film post-production). I'm not sure just how "Welcome to the Room" fits into the time line.

Several years prior. His girlfriend at the time was Cheri Caspari, who was living with him when the band recorded at the Slope (his home).

I don't think so. Not yet. She toured her own album through the beginning of October 1986, & the album was probably ready for final mixing or mastering not long after that, when she was heading back to rehab for the second time.

Beats me. Was she secretly hoping to move in with him again? It strikes me as unlikely, but I don't know what she was thinking.

The Klonopin postdates the making of the album, but certainly the difficulties of making that album -- lack of band commitment, to put it in a nutshell -- must have driven them all apart emotionally, not just Nicks & Buckingham. We've talked about it before, but another sputtering relationship that hurt Buckingham deeply was his once-strong friendship with Mick.

There was a great deal of putting on a front among the members at that time. At the charity show that Buckingham, Nicks, & Fleetwood played in August 1986, they didn't even mix much backstage; & yet Buckingham spoke onstage about how "healing" making the album had been.

And Lindsey's brother had just died too, which I'm sure just made not recognizing Stevie even harder. I mean, in this new interview, she is talking about being the caregiver in the past and if she hadn't been in the grip of Klonopin at the time of those BTM shows, I'm sure she would have wanted to be that for him then.

Michele

In one of the recent interviews that was posted, too, it was said that Mick was living in a trailer at the bottom of Lindsey's garden at the time of the making of Tango. That was probably pretty rough to see, and I'm sure that Mick was hard to be within yards of at the time, as well.

Yes, I think Lindsey's feelings for Mick are almost as deep and contradictory as any he has for Stevie. Even if he feels alienated from Mick sometimes, I think he sees him as an older brother. It's strange, because even when he's feeling light and friendly, he'd have a lot of censorious things to say about Mick --yet I think he looks up to him.

Michele

i've always wondered if lindsey was an underlying reason why she went to rehab. like, in the back of her mind maybe she wondered well, if i get clean and start making great music again, maybe lindsey and i can have some sort of relationship again, coz everything is really **** right now.

and she seems absolutely devastated when he left
i dont care what she says
that's a huge chunk of her life that just disappeared

which reminds me of this fic, i cant remember the name or who wrote it but it was about Stevie getting out of rehab and she was hurt [read: pissed] that Lindsey never came to visit her. anyone know where that is? i love it :D

Stevie went to rehab in Nov 86 right?
yet she continually references going in 1985
i've heard she went twice many times over the years
so when was the "first" time? refresh my memory please

I've always been curious about Lindsey's feelings towards Stevie's addiction to Klopoin. I had never before heard anything from him about this issue. So interesting, thanks for sharing!

Yeah, even from Mick's book, I get this impression. Mick says she said to Lindsey, "you're breaking my ________ heart." Then, for the Cage tour Mick says that it was hard for Stevie to get used to being on tour without Lindsey. But then again, I think they were all kind of distraught, even though they forged ahead and didn't say so at the time. I always remember them at the press conference and when they said that Lindsey going brought some sadness John followed up with, "definite sadness." I was touched.

Michele

That's really touching. I sometimes get the impression Lindsey and John are at the least indifferent towards each other.

But, John could have been remembering what went down....and speaking of the incident - whether or not it was as embellished as it became in Mick's book or in the subsequent interviews - that had to be a very heart wrenching scene that played out between SnL...however it went down. (Prior to him pinning her on the car or whatever...)

Lindsey also spent a little time (a day or two or three?) with the band when they were recording Behind the Mask. Was Stevie in the studio during Lindsey's visits? I don't know. There's a photo in one of the tourbooks of him at the studio with Christine & Billy & I think Mick. Maybe Stevie was around that day, maybe she wasn't.

John seems to be the elusive one
ive never even really thought about his r/ship with S or L

it kinda makes those comments coming from John more sadder
because he isnt one to amp up the drama

they were soooooooooo messed up :distress:

So Stevie went to rehab 2 times for coke? Cause I know she went for the kolonopin also. Also did SnL get back together at some point? Some of these posts are confusing me!

I am nearly certain that they were "together" in some way during Mirage, but don't quote me. But really, there's just a ton of speculation. A lot of us have our own theories but nothing is concrete.

I'm sure they get on each other's nerves, but I remember John saying that being in the band was like having 2 brothers and 2 sisters and that it felt like family, even if you didn't see each other often I think he meant it.

Also, speaking of the BTM appearances, that was one of the nicest moments. I was only there for Los Angeles. I wasn't there the first night Lindsey showed up, but I have the video. When Lindsey goes down the line, hugging the band and reaches John, he gets the feeling that John isn't going to shake his hand and he plays it off, but John reaches out warmly to him. It's both awkward and moving.
Michele

Thanks for posting that clip, CADreaming, her introduction, as you said, indeed was a killer! I love that small change she made to 'Landslide' near the end- 'take this love-take it/if you climb a mountain I hope you make it'
I especially liked seeing her perform the song that way with LB, and seeing his reaction to that small change- he seemed very much to approve- the audience liked it, too, it seems. I'd always thought this slight variation was only done on Stevie's solo tours, so I appreciate having been able to see her perform it with Lindsey.
I think it's so much more emotionally striking performed this way-- "take it", without the 'down' --and it sounds better for her voice too, a case of a little thing that makes a big difference. I bet she's forgotten, completely, about the 'take it/make it' couplet near the ending, but I think it makes a great song even greater. If it was Klonopin-induced (and likely, it was, being the era) it was artistry perfected to drop the last 'down'- I've never heard a 'Landslide' I liked better than the 'Timespace' era ones, and now this one with Lindsey.
Too bad when she stopped the downers she forgot to keep the second 'down' out of Landslide. One 'down' is enough (just don't mix it with wine, weed, and calling the store to deliver a ton of food!)

they've said [or Stevie i think] that they didnt really break up til 87 when he left. i think them both being in the band prolonged their dysfunctional relationship and never really allowed them to end things completely.

they were still randomly sleeping together during Mirage-Tango years though right? im sure ive heard that on this board :lol:

Could you post video of that??? We'd all love it!!! :nod:

Didn't know that they were still kind of together til 87 i don't mind though I think they look cute together! What do you guys think?

Aww, that's sweet. I'm sure Lindsey could probably get on someone like John's nerves fairly quickly, but I'm also sure they get along at times as well. They seem to have bonded during "Destiny Rules" in some parts...of course, if their form of bonding is Lindsey sitting and bitching about stuff and John smoking cigarettes and laughing hysterically at everything LB says...then they're good.

Mind you, I love LB dearly and think he's just, well, incredible, but he's quite high-strung and JM is more laid-back. It seems like their personalities are quite different but they make it work despite the odds.:nod:

That's only some fans' speculation.

I don't think they had anything to do with each other during that time. From the end of the Mirage tour, I don't even think they saw each other until she recorded with the band in 1986.

I think Stevie's comment (about not completely breaking up until 1987) has been misinterpreted. I think she meant it figuratively -- that they had never really achieved closure emotionally -- not that they were still boyfriend & girlfriend.

I half disagree, half agree. I don't think they were in a relationship from 1976, but I think they randomly slept together through the years, until 1987 when they finally got closure and stopped doing that.

Yeah. John is stubborn. Also, he's not that laid back when he drinks. I'm sure they've been worthy adversaries.

In Destiny Rules when Lindsey was telling John how much the remixing would cost, I do think he was deliberately trying to get a rise out of John. So, John said it was too much money and Lindsey said, "then we won't mix your bass parts." But I think the only reason he told John that it was going to cost $9000 was to see what the response would be.

It's funny John and Lindsey actually looked cozy enough during the Mirage shows. They seemed to interact a lot. But after that, they seem to choose their moments to acknowledge each other and then ignore the other for the rest of the show.

For the SYW tour, Lindsey had that place where he liked to grab John around the neck and John let him do it and sometimes he hugged Lindsey. Lindsey also grabbed John around the neck for The Dance tour. Also, when Lindsey came over to Christine for Stand Back, John would move to the other side of the stage.

For this tour, John has this thing of looking at Lindsey after Oh Well and smiling, giving him a thumbs up. Other than that, they don't make eye contact.


Michele

Shoot, some times those relationships are the best kind. I can almost guarantee that Lindsey Buckingham has screamed at , shouted at, stomped feet at, thrown *insert large item* at, and whatever else he does when he's throwing a Lindsey Temper Tantrum waaaaaaaayyyyy more times with any of those other people than John. They may have a somewhat tepid relationship in our eyes, but I'm sure when one is coming off of a rage fest, or the other an alcoholic binge, sometimes it's a lot calmer to just have someone who you don't have to make eye contact with too much.;)

Mick said that early on (White album I guess) they both decided "____ you" and maybe it's been relatively peaceful since then.

It's funny that even when he talks about working on the SYW album before Stevie arrived, he says that John and Mick said things to each other they never said before and that John was much happier without Christine there (which I doubt), but he never says that he and John shared anything new. I think when he is crying in Destiny Rules though, that he tells Stevie he wants to be with FM and doesn't take it lightly. He says it's very emotional being with her and "with John the way he is now." He says something like that, although I can't make it out completely. You know the part where he is facing her and getting choked up and she is twirling her hair?

Christine said one of the nicest things about The Dance reunion was looking over and seeing John and Lindsey with their heads together and arms around each other. She said she never thought she'd see that! Michele

Just curious - I realize you know more than the average fan - but is your assessment of their relationship from '82-'86 fan speculation or is it based on something more? Because I would only expect someone who was involved in their lives on a more personal level to be able to give an accurate account of their relationship during that time. Even hanger-oners who frequent the backstage areas don't really know what they are seeing most of the time -way too many distractions.

I believe he said to her: "...I mean seeing you and me the way we are now, and John the way he is now, it's just, it's just...I can't even..." and he turns around seemingly wiping away tears and Stevie looks out the window, twirling her hair.

See, I enjoy reading stuff like this because it's so much more positive than someone's interviews at the moment. Anyway, Michele, I think J&L probably had that kind of relationship you have with someone you work with where everything just fits perfectly, the end result comes out amazing, but you never hang out after work. You say your pleasantries, do the job well, and go off to your separate lives. And often those can be some of the most successful working relationships because all that drama is just not there.

However, do you think there may have been some tension between them or do you think they were pretty much just had one of those non-personal relationships...I'm curious as to your take.

I do? More of what? What on earth could that possibly mean? I've read more articles in the Blue Letter Archives than Joe Ledgie?

Speculation. Mine. I began my post with "I think . . ."

Precisely so.

Hmmm..maybe? But, it just means you seem more knowledgeable in your posts and that you have been a fan longer.

Thanks for clarifying. :nod:

Well, I think they would have had a non-personal relationship, except in the seventies they were in situations where they sometimes had to live directly on top of each other, it must have seemed. So, tensions flared up. They couldn't just do the job and go home, because it seems in those early days they spent a lot of time together, even outside of being on stage or in the studio. After the Tusk tour ended, it wasn't like that anymore. But I think there must have been about 5 years there, where they were all joined at the hip.

As for John and Lindsey, I just think they have little in common, but there are only 5 people in the world who know what it is like to be them and so, even if they would never have been friends outside of Fleetwood Mac, they have to consider each other family in a way, because of that bond of being there together when IT happened.

Lindsey said he has come to appreciate the tension of thinking that someone is going to step all over your guitar parts -- and then they don't! And I always thought that was a metaphor for any relationship. You come together and butt heads and feel this friction of thinking your space is going to be invaded, but then realize that what you have united (friction or not) is better than what you were accomplishing alone and you embrace the friction and the other person who made you stretch your boundaries.

Also, just from a boys v. girls perspective, I think Lindsey felt a camaraderie with John. When he talks about the Rumours break ups, he'll always stick in a word or two for John and point out that he didn't get his voice heard, because he doesn't write songs.

Michele

I like that as well. I always think that was sweet of him to acknowledge John. Bass players are an absolute integral part of any band, and he deserves all his props.

I agree with what you're saying about their relationship and pretty much feel the same way as you. I think in a lot of bands, take the Beatles, there are going to be two guys who may not normally be friends personality-wise (George/Paul) but do love one another as brothers because they had that life together. It's something to talk about with each other as well, which could possibly form a tighter bond for them in the future. Possibly.