Let's Talk About...THROWN DOWN...
 

Thought I'd take a turn at this thread and throw a bit of a random one in there! Since we've done Sara, Angel and Storms I thought a more recent track could be good...

I personally think this is the best song Stevie has written for the Mac in years! It's her best since Seven Wonders and for me is the undoubted highlight of Say You Will (an album that I seem to have a higher opinion of than many others). I'd love to hear it live but don't rate my chances much, which is a real shame.

So, what are everyone's thoughts on this track? How does it compare with her earlier stuff? What do you think it's about? How do you rate her vocal etc...? Anything really..

I absolutely LOVE the vocal we see her laying down in the recording studio in Destiny Rules. Those lst few lines are delivered brilliantly, as Lindsey says. It's also the subject of that infamous "you wouldn't tell Bob Dylan how to write" discussion, which I love Stevie for! How dare Lindsey try to change her lyrics? haha!

I know Stevie has said that this song is about Lindsey and was written around the time of The Dance tour about the "barricades of time" between them. I've read in other threads about how people think there may have been something between them briefly back then and the lyrics to this song definitely bear that out. Even if it was just a random hook up with an ex - Hell, who hasn't done that?!

I find it really interesting that Stevie takes such a strange perspective on their relatinship in this song though, if that is what it's about. "He fell for her again, she watched it happen" and "she watched it all come into play". The woman just seems very passive, which I think is unusual for Stevie's songs. Instead of her feelings it's her observations of whoever the guy is and then it goes on to just describe how he pleaded with her that he'd changed etc: "maybe now he could prove to her that they should be together" Does anyone think we get anything about how the woman may feel or is it just her saying what he did at the time?

Phew - that went on for a bit there!

Also, random fact - has everyone noticed that this song is used in Season 9 of Friends? The One With The Soap Opera Party. It plays in the background. I noticed this years ago when I first saw the episode and was really chuffed!

Let the discussion begin...

Hey I never knew that about Friends - awesome!!

I like "Thrown Down" but I don't really like how it sounds on the album. :shrug: I love the demos that are out there of it though. And I love Stevie's lyrics. And I actually like the instruments on it. I guess I just don't like it altogether.
I'm just not completely obsessed with it like I am with almost all of her other songs!

Has anybody heard the center channel of "Thrown Down"? It's really cool -- pretty much just all Stevie vocals with some drumming in the background.

No!! Where can I hear this? I've actually never heard any demos of Thrown Down. Actually, I've heard shockingly few Say You Will demos at all. Love to hear some Thrown Down ones though.

I'm putting three demos and the CCM up on Mediafire right now -- give me about 15 minutes!

3 Demos and a CCM
 

Thrown Down #1:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ggiwxj3mbty

Thrown Down #2:
http://www.mediafire.com/?txb23wknkkm

Thrown Down #3 (Wall of Sound):
http://www.mediafire.com/?nzgnztemzi3

Thrown Down from the center channel mix of Say You Will - really cool, just Stevie's vocal and some drumming:
http://www.mediafire.com/?yfwlyewgzyz

Thanks! These are great. Not sure about the Wall of Sound one at all, it's too much! The CCM is very good though! So, back to the discussion...

I personally consider Thrown Down my fave Stevie song, if not my favorite song ever. It's like 'Gypsy' but with understandable lyrics, which I formed a personal connection with. I lovelovelove the SYW version, however I also like the Wall of Sound mix-it's one of the few Mac demos I put on my iPhone. On this note- I also have a deep love for Running Through the Garden. :D

Love Thrown Down- a couple of people were mentioning it on this board and I had never heard the song, so I thought I better go listen. Terrific lyrics, great vocals, definitely one of my favorites!

I love this song too...Thrown Down is one of my favorites from the album. Amazing lyrics, and Lindsey did a good job on this one too. It is one of those I never tire of and has a touching message.

I am biased, I like the 'Wall of Sound' version best. I guess because it's the first version I heard. I still believe this to be one of the songs produced by Sheryl Crow for Trouble In Shangri La, not a Mac demo. especially if you watch Destiny Rules, the demo Stevie sends to the band before her arrival, and the version the band works on throughout the documentary is basically what ended up on Say You Will. I suspect Thrown Down is one of her songs that she said sounded more like the Mac, and she held them for the band. I agree, one of her better songs in years, especially within the band.

I very much consider it a Mac song, probably because I've only ever heard it on Say You Will and Destiny Rules. It was only today that I heard the Trouble In Shangri-La demo. I didn't know that it had been worked on with Sheryl at all. Having heard a few demos of the song today the only one I really like is the Centre Channel Mix. The Wall of Sound one just doesn't do it for me at all. Oh well.

Yes, I think there was some kind of cross-promotion. I believe there was a song used on Third Watch too.

Michele

My favorite line from this is, "you've lost your faith in me" and the response is no, I've lost faith in everything else. What a wonderful way to express the singlemindedness of love and how if you lose your hope, loyalty, security, confidence in that, it can disable all the other mainstays in your life.

I still believe in you, but I don't believe in the world.

Also, I love the line in Lindsey's song, "I have no faith today." I take that as a response to Thrown Down, especially since it's a random sentence and doesn't flow naturally from the lyrics.

Michele

Michele, what song are you talking about?

I love Thrown Down, It's one of my favorites.
"Faith is a hard thing to hold on to."
"Maybe now he could prove to her, that he could be good for her, and they should be together"
Great lyrics, great tune, I don't ever get tired of it!
-Lily

Definite Lindsey song, which in my opinion points even more to the feelings that Stevie and Lindsey were together during "The Dance" era, a theory which I whole-heartedly agree with.

The lines -
'Maybe now he could prove to her
That he could be good for her
That they should be together'

Interesting. It seems Stevie seems reluctant for anything to get "serious", but Lindsey is the pursuer. Contrary to how Stevie would like us to perceive her, I've never felt her to be, like Dodfather said earlier, the passive one in the relationship. The one being sought after. I've always felt her to be the one putting up the chase.

Seems she felt the relationship was doomed from the beginning, which I guess shows she's lost some of her romantic spirit, considering cursed pairings seem to be her forté.

'You say you're sorry...
Now you should walk away
But it's so overwhelming,
You have nothing left to say
You can sit outside his door and wait
Well, you can dedicate your pain to him'

Stevie often seems to refer to herself as "her" or "she". Strange in this case but I feel the "you" is her self-reflecting. She's obviously broken hearted that she had to walk away from the relationship. But she wants to get out to save herself? Maybe she wanted to explain how she felt, but couldn't. So she walked away before any more damage was caused. 'Dedicate your pain to him' - in my opinion, some of the most intense performances of her entire career were gjven during "The Dance". "Silver Springs": Stevie's all but screaming at Lindsey.

Just my interpretation of a couple of lines, I could sit and pick apart the whole song, there's so much to say about it.

Yep. "Peacekeeper" was used during an episode of Third Watch.

And, keeping with the NBC plays "Mac" theme...Rick Vito's "Exotica By Night" was used in an episode of The West Wing.


I like the "wall of sound" version of "Thrown Down" regardless of its origin...I still think THAT version should've been released as a single prior to the album's release, since it has more of a "radio airplay" feel to it. Then people would've been surprised at the entirely different version on the SYW album once it came out. Marketing people, marketing...something that Fleetwood Mac has really fallen on their faces about. No wonder the Eagles recaptured a more widespread audience upon their never ending "comeback" than Fleetwood Mac...they know how to "market". Fleetwood Mac apparently doesn't, when it doesn't have the Rumours name on it.

WOOHOO! thanks for posting those!
it brings my count of Thrown Down versions to 8!
I can't get enough of this song :blob1:

You're so welcome!
Glad I could help add to your "Thrown Down" collection :)

I like it because he says "today". He still leaves a bit of hope, that tomorrow is another day.

They might be simple, but I've always been partial to the "he held her hands/she listened to what he had to say" lines. So much of Stevie/Lindsey's relationship seems to have been about miscommunication that these lines, and their emphasized place before the first chorus, seem like a sweet transition into a new era.

[QUOTE=Black_Moon;831904]Definite Lindsey song, which in my opinion points even more to the feelings that Stevie and Lindsey were together during "The Dance" era, a theory which I whole-heartedly agree with.

The lines -
'Maybe now he could prove to her
That he could be good for her
That they should be together'

Interesting. It seems Stevie seems reluctant for anything to get "serious", but Lindsey is the pursuer. Contrary to how Stevie would like us to perceive her, I've never felt her to be, like Dodfather said earlier, the passive one in the relationship. The one being sought after. I've always felt her to be the one putting up the chase.


Yeah. This is what makes the song one of the more interesting ones for me. A different take on the relationship.

Ok, this thread has me so happy!! A few times, when I have heard people say they didn't like Say You Will as a complete album, I thought ok they're insane!!...yet entitled to their own opinion. ;) BUT......when people say they don't care for "Thrown DOwn"...What the hell are you on?!?! LOL In my opinion, it is not only beautifully written, the melody is PERFECTION!! Oh GOD, can I get n AMEN for this song and how freaking fabulous it is?!!! :) :blob2: :]

They did have a brief affair during the dance. It ended when Kristin
became pregnant. Stevie then broke it off and just became friends with
Lindsey. I think that was when they realized it was finally over.
Darla



d E=Dodfather;831826]Thought I'd take a turn at this thread and throw a bit of a random one in there! Since we've done Sara, Angel and Storms I thought a more recent track could be good...

I personally think this is the best song Stevie has written for the Mac in years! It's her best since Seven Wonders and for me is the undoubted highlight of Say You Will (an album that I seem to have a higher opinion of than many others). I'd love to hear it live but don't rate my chances much, which is a real shame.

So, what are everyone's thoughts on this track? How does it compare with her earlier stuff? What do you think it's about? How do you rate her vocal etc...? Anything really..

I absolutely LOVE the vocal we see her laying down in the recording studio in Destiny Rules. Those lst few lines are delivered brilliantly, as Lindsey says. It's also the subject of that infamous "you wouldn't tell Bob Dylan how to write" discussion, which I love Stevie for! How dare Lindsey try to change her lyrics? haha!

I know Stevie has said that this song is about Lindsey and was written around the time of The Dance tour about the "barricades of time" between them. I've read in other threads about how people think there may have been something between them briefly back then and the lyrics to this song definitely bear that out. Even if it was just a random hook up with an ex - Hell, who hasn't done that?!

I find it really interesting that Stevie takes such a strange perspective on their relatinship in this song though, if that is what it's about. "He fell for her again, she watched it happen" and "she watched it all come into play". The woman just seems very passive, which I think is unusual for Stevie's songs. Instead of her feelings it's her observations of whoever the guy is and then it goes on to just describe how he pleaded with her that he'd changed etc: "maybe now he could prove to her that they should be together" Does anyone think we get anything about how the woman may feel or is it just her saying what he did at the time?

Phew - that went on for a bit there!

Also, random fact - has everyone noticed that this song is used in Season 9 of Friends? The One With The Soap Opera Party. It plays in the background. I noticed this years ago when I first saw the episode and was really chuffed!

Let the discussion begin...[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Dodfather;831921]Definitely. Normally it seems she describes herself as the broken hearted one. Even when she dumps Lindsey, eg. "Silver Springs", "Dreams" - she's the one who's hurting and you can swear that Lindsey is going to live a life of torture because he was the one left! Her logic amazes me.

Thanks for posting these, they're awesome!

love Thrown Down, one of my favs from SYW!!!

DO we really or did we ever really have confirmation that they started things up again during the Dance, pre-Kristen's pregnancy? Course I have always wanted to believe it! ;)

I mean Castaway Dreams and the line: "Magic one, all our dreams are done. I have no faith today."

Michele

NBC also used several "Mac" songs in an episode of Heroes this season. They were very eerily placed in a scene where Sylar (the "villan") finds out that his father killed his mother.

When I first heard Castaway Dreams, I assumed it was about Stevie. The line about dreams, and especially "It would do no good to drown in the sea" as an answer to Sara. Then I find out it's about a fight he had with Kristen.

Isn't that weird??

Anyway, back to the task at hand...THROWN DOWN

I do love this song, and I am one of those people who truly enjoys SYW as an album. So mellow and easy to listen to. Fun to sing a 2nd or 3rd harmony to in Chris' absence. And while Lindsey guitar work and production are wonderful, there's lots of room to play along, especially with an acoustic guitar. I enjoy doing both those things with Thrown Down.

I love the "You say you're sorry..." verse and I always imagine that they could have made an interesting music video with this song. NOT a performance vid! I imagine the whole band dressed in black, lether...basically what they were wearing for the SYW photo shoot. Shots of them looking at each other longingly, much along the lines of the song, mixed with shots of actors playing younger versions of the band...sort of like Justin Timberlake in "This Train Don't Stop Here Anymore"

Don't know if that makes much sense...

By far and away the biggest "Should've Been A HUGE Hit!!!" since "Sisters Of The Moon" and "Angel" (FM) and "Enchanted" and "Blue Lanp" (solo)!!!:blob2::blob1::blob2:

The OP mentioned the female (Stevie)'s seemingly passive role in the relationship in the opening lines. This has always intrigued me about the song. I'm gonna make a lot of assumptions so bear with me...

He fell for her again, she watched it happen
Every day, day by day
But more important
Night by night

"Again" is crucial. I know its kind of a minor detail, but to completely fall for someone all over again implies that there was enough time to get over the first round of the relationship. I don't think this is about an 80s rekindling, that's for sure. I'm on the bandwagon on this one and think this song is totally about the Dance tour and the fact that they couldn't make it too much more than a physical thing ("night by night"). The love had to be second if the affair had any chance of working.

Maybe now he could prove to her
That he could be good for her
And they should be together

But Lindsey didn't agree.

A decision no one makes, and now you're going home

I love this line... Sounds like she thought the ball was in his court and he just ran out of time.

Well, you can dedicate your pain to him

I love this line in Destiny Rules when she's recording Thrown Down and gives Lindsey the BEST look.

[QUOTE=Lala;831983]When I first heard Castaway Dreams, I assumed it was about Stevie. The line about dreams, and especially "It would do no good to drown in the sea" as an answer to Sara. Then I find out it's about a fight he had with Kristen.

Isn't that weird??

Maybe you're correct on both accounts; Castaway Dreams is about Stevie, and Stevie was the cause of the fight that Lindsey and Kristen had.

[QUOTE=daniellaaarisen;832087]The OP mentioned the female (Stevie)'s seemingly passive role in the relationship in the opening lines. This has always intrigued me about the song. I'm gonna make a lot of assumptions so bear with me...

He fell for her again, she watched it happen
Every day, day by day
But more important
Night by night

"Again" is crucial. I know its kind of a minor detail, but to completely fall for someone all over again implies that there was enough time to get over the first round of the relationship. I don't think this is about an 80s rekindling, that's for sure. I'm on the bandwagon on this one and think this song is totally about the Dance tour and the fact that they couldn't make it too much more than a physical thing ("night by night"). The love had to be second if the affair had any chance of working.

Maybe now he could prove to her
That he could be good for her
And they should be together

But Lindsey didn't agree.

A decision no one makes, and now you're going home

I love this line... Sounds like she thought the ball was in his court and he just ran out of time.

Well, you can dedicate your pain to him

I love this line in Destiny Rules when she's recording Thrown Down and gives Lindsey the BEST look.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, the way she sings that line is brilliant. One of the best bits of the whole doumentary. Her voice is so strong at that point. I haven't noticed the look you mention though, I'll have to go and check the dvd. Oh well, any excuse....

I tend to watch it once a week these days, so you're not alone :) The look is totally classic.

Hey, that's an interesting perspective about Lindsey not agreeing.

I like these lines because I think it's the most misunderstood part of the song:

I've shaken your faith in me, no
You've shaken my faith in everything else
A decision no one made
And now you're going home

The decision no one made is something that wasn't their choice. Everyone assumes this is about Will. Too easy. I don't think so, but I do think it was something very personal and painful.

But, "now you're going home" - home may not mean separation at all - home could mean reconciliation. Stevie uses it in "Sara", "when you build your house, call me home." In GDW she says, "pick up the pieces and go home". LB uses it in SGCYM, "little children, going on home." It means getting it all together finally, I think. Which is why the chorus makes sense. The walls were a barricade, and they had been "thrown down", which is why he could prove to her that he could be good for her and they could be together.

You say you're sorry
Now you should walk away
But it's so overwhelming
You have nothing left to say
You can sit outside his door and wait
Well, you can dedicate your pain to him

You should walk away...But.

I like this part too - because either he/she doesn't walk away. And, in fact, she ends up waiting outside his door.

I think this is referring to something specific that happened, but not during the Dance. Just because the song was written then doesn't mean the events happened during that time. It's possible Stevie went back through her journals and wrote this song on that tour about a different time in her life.

Thrown Down
 

I like the verse "thrown down like a barricade" I think that is so cool!!:blob2:

I totally do not like this song.
Especially "maybe now he could prove to her... that he could be good for her"....

She couldn't have found a better way to say that? It sounds like a two-year-old wrote it.

I also like putting the song together with [I]Fall From Grace's [/I.


As it all begins again, is like he fell for her again, she watched it happen. In FFG she talks about being the same place that she was before. It's also about replaying the same story a second time.

I know once in 1982, I think Stevie and Lindsey were getting along briefly and she said that she loved him very much and they could totally get back together, but she knows it would only end the same way if they did, because fundamentally the conflict in their personalities was still the same. And FFG reminds me of that 1982 interview.

FFG's I always accepted what you said as the truth and the truth only, is a parallel to him saying to her, you've lost your faith in me. It's: "I've let you down. Now you don't trust me anymore, don't believe in me any more." And in the 2 songs (FFG and TD) she has different responses to that statement.


Then, you have going all this way to watch him walk out the door in FFG vs. him leaving in Thrown Down and her wondering if she should stand outside his door and wait and dedicate her pain to him.

Michele

I was just thinking about this at work while listening to the TISL album. In a way, that entire cd seems to me an attempt to deal with the fact that the story has now played out completely twice and come to the same conclusion. The older songs Stevie chose to include on TISL (Candlebright, Sorcerer, Planets of the Universe) were either written while Stevie was with Lindsey or as a response to the break up. The new songs all tackle loving and losing, and even the song Sheryl wrote for her describes Stevie as something unenviable (look what I've become) because she "met her match again" and wasted her time on him once more............noting of course, that should the story repeat once more and actually work out, it would have all been worth it.

Bringing this tangent back solidly Thrown Down, though, (and by solidly, I mean referencingly) I think the door theme you mentioned that runs between TD and FFG shows up most revealingly in the new POTU....haunted by that same closed door.