What.....is going on with Fleetwood mac?
 

Ok, I'm guess i'm gonna be cast as a troll here and thats ok.

I've listened to every boot and every clip from all the shows i've heard so far.
Not only that but my experiences seeing them in Detroit and Toronto.

This is NOT the Fleetwood Mac I remember from SYW or the Dance.
They are constantly out of Key, out of sync, out of.......of something.
I had hoped it was because the tour was just beginning, but so far...blah.

Lindsy sounds as though he talking/screaming most of the time trying hard to just make it through vocally.
His guitar playing while much, much better still sounds very "tribute band" with notes and runs he ought not be missing....but he is.
I'm not talking about changing up the arraignment either, I'm talking about wrong notes/sour notes....I just don't get it.

Stevie, well no need to really explain whats happening to her. Just abysmal.
Out of all the tracks on the set list, only 3 stand out as Energetic or sung with that Stevie vigor.
Why she couldn't sing the rest like she sang Storms...I dunno.

Am I being to harsh?
I don't think so....
I'm sorry but i'm pissed off.

The TO show drove me over the edge.
I thought the Detroit show wasn't all that great and to experience the TO show was just such a "shake your head" and wonder moment. It was worse.

I LOVE Fleetwood Mac and it pains me to no end to have to say it.

At $150 a seat this show is just not worth it if your going for quality or musicianship.
I am glad I went, but only for the chance to say, I saw Mac on the last tour they ever did.......

test,

wait.. shush....
Do you hear that?
Its the sound of a thousand feathers being ruffled...:rolleyes:

Oh my goodness! Are you serious?? :eek:
I think they sound great, and while I havent seen em (yet.. roll on the summer.) I don't think they're as bad as you're making em out to be.


Stevie? Abysmal? That is a bit harsh really. I know the opening shows were "meh", putting it nicely, but think she has settled really really well and has that charm we havent seen in years! I'm loving Stevie! I think she's rising to the occasion every time!

And as for Lindsey, well, yes, I was one of the first to say I thought he was being a bit harsh with the decibel level of his voice.. Screeching rather than singing really. But I still think he's ripping up that stage like he hasn't done for ages! Just look at his reviews! All those journalists can't be wrong.. can they? His playing is epic!! :shrug:

^^I think you are entitled to your opinions, some of which are valid. But do you have anything positive to say? Did everything suck?

i was at the first show in pittsburgh and i thought they sounded great and even better to me than the syw tour. of course stevie could have had more energy but it must have been opening night jitters because all of her performances i see posted on youtube she seems much more lively. i really enjoyed the show without all those extra backup musicians as well.
i hope they do another round of dates after this set because they freaking rock!

With that negative outlook you will fit right in here on The Ledge...

I have no clue what you are talking about as far as Detroit goes. I was there, front row, center and heard everything. There were a few spots... Seriously, like two or three that seemed a bit off, but they rocked. They were awesome. I appreciate your opinion, but in true KENNATION fashion- I gotta say, I think you're wrong. LOL ;)

No, but really I thought Detroit was fantastic. I thought they did a lot better than Pitts... Not that they were terrible in Pittsburgh, but- one man's opinion is his opinion.

I too don't have the same viewpoint as you.

As my non-FM b/f puts it, Lindsey is outplaying the original material by a longshot. Now I don't quite agree with it that far, but he is masterfully performing right now and a soulless tribute band could hardly do likewise.

Yeah, it's different than the others. It's supposed to be.

I thought for an opening night, Pittsburgh was a phenominal show in its own right. I think Lindsey is playing with tenfold the passion he did during Say You Will, probably because of the GoS Tour and solo work. I think everything about this tour is better, even down to the stage setup and the reduced support size. Granted I only saw them on opening night, but in theory, it should only get better from there on.

Test,

You are an audiophille right? I might be coming at this from a different angle than you are, but if you judge solely if a concert is musical perfection in hitting every note, cue, you will be disappointed. Live music lends itself to mistakes just like live theater. Blunders do happen from time to time and will be the first to admit that in some earlier songs this tour, Stevie was off key, or sounded a bit weak vocally, but don't dwell on that. I am looking at the big picture of Fleetwood Mac rocking out on stage and just having fun. We are all getting older and am sure it is hard for them to keep up this grueling schedule and be musically perfect each and every night.

Yes, it is a little sad seeing your favorite band age, but think they are doing it as gracefully and full of life as they can. I respect your opinion but I choose to look at the big rocking picture that is Fleetwood Mac and just enjoy their live music by dancing at concerts and just being totally happy to be hearing these wonderful songs.

Take care and hope you feel better about your experience as time goes on.

Test,

I do feel that they are playing there best now every time i see them they never disappoint just saw them here in connecticut last saturday at Mohegan Sun Arena Casino and they rocked the house everyone was singing right with them to every song including me and they just went crazy on stage and gave it there all i though have to remember when you go to a show don't expect to see a show you exactly saw in the past but live for the moment and enjoy it before its gone im sorry they rocked the house and stevie and lindsey were in harmony the whole night im telling you my experience from the mohegan sun show. If you go into the show with a chip on your shoulder cause of the ticket prices then why did you bother to get a ticket cause if you go to any concert today by any other band they are in the average i would say also they are a legendary band so you will be paying a little bit more money to see a legendary band perform for almost 3 hours straight so you should have bought the cheaper seats prices if the price was a big issue and you shouldn't let that be a chip on your shoulder during the whole show i had a blast and would go see them again soon hope they extend there tour thru the fall and come around again. Britney spears and Madonna are over $300 a ticket for there shows i dont hear anyone complaining about there ticket prices even the eagles are pricer than FM so FM to me is bargain ticket price actually compared to other artists so to me its worth the money and they rocked at there best on this tour like they always do when i see them and when i see stevie solo.

Hey, John McVie still kicks ass!

The Dance and SYW tours used a lot of smaller venues where getting the sound right is easier and almost every seat is a good seat as far as sound goes. They are starting off at some large venues and I don't know who's doing their sound, but even with sound checks, the EQ changes when the venue fills up. It takes a few dates to really get the kinks worked of not only vocal monitoring but also being able to hear yourself play. It's one thing to "play deaf" but it's much more difficult to play when there's a lot of echo, in the bigger venues, coming back at you. A player gets used to it with time. Also, depending on where you sat, you may not have had the ultimate experience!
You should go out to a date mid tour, see if there's any difference and report back.

Here's an interesting tidbit: I was at the tour opener for Tom Petty's tour a few years back here in Charlotte, and Stevie wasn't that way AT ALL! She was just grinning from ear to ear the whole time, dancing around stage, harmonizing with Tom, and she sounded and looked GREAT! Here she hadn't performed Insider with Tom (her musical idol) in something like 25 years at that point, and she pulled it off fantastically, without jitters. She just gets so weird around FM, and I don't get it. She's been performing with Lindsey and FM her whole adult life, well north of 40 years :shocked:, and nearly 35 years now for the Mac. If it's that she truly doesn't enjoy it, she's made her money and mark with the band, and she should hang up her tambourine, and concentrate on her solo life. She still has a big fanbase, and obviously LOVES her life outside of the Mac. If she's so miserable, why does she keep flogging the dead horse?

I do have to agree about Lindsey's vocals and guitar work with the Mac the past 6 years too... his vocals are bad, and he fumbles a lot on the guitar. He's so much better solo too... I wonder what gives with this Mac pattern? Can they all make each other nervous still after all these years? :shrug:

I agree with you on the Tom Petty point, she was just so "ON". It rocked. Also, with Don Henly she was really in good forum as well (I thought). She did not look "un-happy" or "tired" or "board".

I didn't get a chance to see her with Don, but those youtube videos of her singing New York Minute with him just give me chills. I wish she still sang like that on her own songs!

You missed out. The TV tour was truly magical. Say what you will about Don Henley, but he really brought out the best in Stevie. I haven't seen as much enthusiasm from her on stage before or since that tour.

The Dance was 50/50 sheds/arenas and SYW was 85/15 arenas/sheds. They're playing the same venues (arenas) they did on the SYW tour, so I'm not sure what you're talking with the "smaller venues".

Looking at the venue they have played thus far on this tour... Mellon Arena (Pittsburgh) is a notoriously hard venue for the guys working the soundboard at the back of the house. Cavernous, oddly shaped, lots of echoing, etc. The U2 show I saw there a few years back was, by far, the loudest concert I've ever been to in any size venue.

Some artists like to mix their songs unnecessarily loud, almost as if for effect. Prime example- this past fall with Lindsey's tour, and cranking the sound/bass up to "11" on "Love Runs Deeper" and ONLY "Love Runs Deeper". I guess he was trying to make a statement or something.

This statement is not entirely true. FM's only stop in Charlotte on the SYW tour was on the third leg of the tour, in a shed venue. This time around they upgraded to the downtown arena, which holds at least 2,000 more seats.

I think he'd say "he's painting his masterpiece".

Another complaining thread, this time started by a not so good Rush-album :shrug:

:lol:

this is where the real fans live

if you can't criticize and be negative 98.4% of the time
you're ill equipped to be here :D

SPOT ON!!!!! :nod:
i listen to a lot of music
go to concerts every now and then
but one reason i love going to Mac concerts and listening to the boots is coz sometimes i just hate hearing the album versions
they are SO good live
and i prefer pretty much all of their songs with a live-edge
what Sandy said is true, a concert is not supposed to be perfect.
it's supposed to sound different, and of course they are going to have mistakes, they're human.

SYW was not The Dance and Unleashed is not SYW
completely diff set up
they're older
why would they want to mirror something from 12 years ago
it would be boring as hell

I saw the Dance and missed Say you will.. but I think they're doing very well!!!.. I do think Stevie doesn't seem as into everything as usual like when solo....but none the less she still sounded great to me at the Rochester show.. and Lindsey was awesome and his performance was genuine! He never seems to be putting on a act....

Street, I am soooo glad that you wrote this. This illustrates something that I have been saying for a while (NOT THAT IT WAS YOUR INTENTION,) people can be so sharp and vicious, but becuase they add these ridiculous little smilie-kisses and bouncing dots that makes it ok. It is sooo passive agressive. I mean, that is why some of my posts are so provoking because people respond in such a nasty way, but they use these icons to the right and that makes it ok... I just find it so amusing. Thank you, Street. That has been my point for a long time. However, I love your usage of that EXACT percentage, lol. 98.4% that is hilarious.

We are talking live performances here, not an album. Did i criticize "Rumors or Tango in the night?" No.
Rush live, is amazing. Yet I would and have criticized geds vocals many times during many tours.

Back on topic,

This is not about large venues or the mix stage left/right or downtown.
This is about the tightness of the band and the lacking vocals.
They were not in sync, their harmonies were off and they were singing flat alot and just seemed to be struggling.
I don't care that Stevie didn't float around like a butterfly all night like some have mentioned.
I am only being critical of the musicianship between Stevie and Lindsy.
John and Mick were really good for the most part.

I'm not the only one folks. Many of the reviews while rating over all a good show, a few reviews did pick out and mention the same things i am saying.

You can't really discern AT the show or after the show based on memories how good or bad it actually was.

I'll be honest and say after we left the detroit show, I was thinking it was pretty good. At the time I didn't notice or recollect anything negative going on.

It wasn't until I listened to the show that I noticed the things i'm talking about.

I would pick on the Pittsburgh show (because the awesome pro sounding audio we have of it) to really make my point. But, many would say thats the first show it doesn't count!...lol
However, i don't know how anyone could deny after listening to that show that it was not very tight.
And those same issues continue....at least they did in Detroit and even worse in To.

By the way, for us canucks it wasn't $150 a ticket. Thats American pricing. It was actually $234 per ticket after exchange.

I hope they get better as they go. I really do.

test,

I appreciate that you have a difference of opinion. I appreciate that you stick with your opinion. Again, I think without a good recording of that Detroit show, you cannot judge it.

My point: Did you, at the time you left The Palace, feel as though you got your money's worth? My guess? I am sure you did. That is what it was about. You were entertained. You may have even smiled, danced, or were singing along?!?! So from that- the band did it's job. The band is playing really really well. There will always be a little something to judge. These are humans... Look at Janis... how frequently was she in tune? But she made us feel, think, and moved us. That is what it is all about. They did their job, they did it well.

Well, you know, when you say that, I'm not sure that it's your perception AT the show that was clouded.

I mean isn't what you feel and experience at the show the real test of how good a concert was? It's not what you feel AFTERWARDS when you hear a boot of the show you were at. I understand what you're saying and respect your present recollections, but if I was going to use your opinion as a guide to my own approach to the concert . . . If I was going to use it to decide whether or not I should attend myself, when you tell us you liked the show when you were THERE and then changed your mind afterwards when it was over and you heard a recording of it, I think I'd just go with your in-concert perception as the most reliable one.

Michele

Of course I felt I got my monies worth!
It WAS a good show. Yes I did hoot and hollar and dance a bit...lol

I think we are getting our lines crossed. I am NOT bashing Fleetwood Mac as horrible or saying it was a "BAD" show. Was it worth $234? umm....i guess it was since i paid for 2 shows...lol

Maybe i should have started out this thread by saying "musicians only" or something.
I realize that from a non musicians perspective (a critical one at that), what i'm saying makes no sense or seems a bit unfair, or maybe you really just don't hear what I hear.
I also understand that most of you are judging the show by how much fun you had while there. Thats ok, thats all that really matters I guess.

My criticisms have nothing to do with how much fun it was or how awe inspiring it was to be in the same building with Fleetwood Mac. Which are both true statements.
Nor is it about the "quality" of the recordings or the main mix at the show.
I thought the mix was quite good at the show.

Its just that I expected "The Dance" and it was more like a really good tribute band. RFM comes to mind.

PS, I'm not using any emoticons for fear of being passive aggressive....lol

test,

Expecting "the dance" is, especially for a musician, very naieve. The dance dvd is one of the most afterproduced and slick pieces of "livework" ever released.

What I like about what I've heard on the boots is that-like in the seventies- they don't stretch too much anymore to make it a slick liveperformance. They sound more "live, vulnerable and raw" this tour. Listen with that in mind and you'll say: they haven't played better live since 1983.

i say they can even do better by ditching one or two back-upsingers and Steve Rinkov(not as a drumtech, but as an additional player). Mick can do it alone.

I saw Rush live, by the way. Technically perfect, very slick produced, close to the originals, almost like on record.



BOOOOORING!!!!!!!

Except for Geddy Lee's vocals: They are ALIVE!. He can make mistakes and change melodylines in an instant.

Yes, but doesn't it sound great?

No really, I know what your saying and your right. It IS produced to sound spectacular.
However, if you notice, during those shows, they all hit the mark. meaning, they sing when there supposed to. They play the right notes, and together they are really tight. Of course the "sound quality" itself is somewhat of an illusion due to as you mentioned, post-production slickery. (Is that a word?...lol)
Once again, this has nothing to do with "sound quality". It has to do with WHAT, HOW and WHEN each member is playing (interacting) with the others. Tightness.
I just found it lacking a bit. My worthless opinion, that all.

I admit very honestly that I'm a stickler for accuracy. When I hear a band play live it had better sound like the best performance they ever gave.
For me, The Dance was and IS the pinnacle of Fleetwood Mac. I've never seen them PLAY better. Fluid, spot on, tight, perfection.
Notice I didn't mention "Sound" better.
As you mentioned, post-production can make anyone "sound" better. Its the playing better i'm talking about.

Listen, I love FM and always will. This experience has not changed that.
I don't want to make enemies or be a troll here.
I really want to continue posting and contributing to the ledge in good faith.

I'll drop the critisizm and move on to another topic:

Toronto the 26th.....should i go again?.....hummmm

test,

Rush boring? Your not serious. You can't be.
Don't make me fight you......lmao.

yea, Rush is a VERY acquired taste. They just appeal to me and unlike you I LOVE how they can play the way they do. I appreciate how well they can translate a "What you hear on the record" is pretty much what they do Live."

But honestly I wouldn't want to hear Fleetwood Mac like that.
I appreciate how Fleetwood Mac changes up the arraignments for their live performances.

The Dance arraignment wise is much better than the recorded versions to me.

test,

Well, as a musician, I can understand. Lindsey noticed it, as well. There were several times when he looked down at his guitar like, "Really? Did I just do that?"

I understand. It was the difference between The Dance, and what we got in Detroit. I understand where you are coming from. Right on.

Will you go so far as to admit that they were A LOT better than they were night 1 of Pittsburgh? I think that I notice it more in the harmonies... Stevie sounded a little pitchy, in areas. They did do a false start on one song. But will you come with me on my point that they seem to be improving over the course of the tour? Still kicked my ass, though~

Yes, of course as the tour rolls on they will probably get tighter.
With all the great recordings we're getting i'm sure we will be able to discern that by tours end. (Thank you so much to all those who have made them)

False starts? I love that stuff. I love when "Train wrecks" happen. When something so obviously horribly goes wrong. :nod:
I love it because it makes a show unique.

As a side note, kennation,

You almost sound like Lindsy trying to convince me how much better you were in detroit....lol

test,

That is the funniest thing, lot's of people write me to say that I am the record label, or a member of the crew, or the newest one Stevie's assistant. I guess I can add Lindsey to that list... ;)

If I were Lindsey... I would use much bigger words, lol.

Rush are one of the bands that are on my "See live before they die" list. I'm a massive fan and own all their concert DVDs (and CDs, of course), but if you have one Rush concert DVD then you don't need any of the others unless you want a few different songs because every version of every song is more less identical.

I've listened to most of the Pittsburgh show and there are a few musical fluffs but I don't hear anything too major. I thought they did a great job. Care to point some out to me? I've not been listen as a "musician" but I'll go back to it with my technical ears on next time.

And as boring as Mick's solo is at this point it wasn't bad as Peart's from the Snakes and Arrows DVD. That solo made me sad because it was actually the part of the DVD I was most looking forward to and it ended up being technical but unlistenable. :sorry:

I think I have to agree with you. Though I didn't want to spend the $$ for this show so I can't comment even on what I've saw or heard on YouTube....as good as it maybe to 'see' it on there or hear it. It isn't the same as being there. I'm happy for those that had a great time. But if you didn't there's nothing wrong with posting your opinion otherwise...at least not to me. Its better to be honest than have these rose colored glass view of everything Stevie or Mac. They aren't perfect and they do make mistakes just like the rest of us do.
I do agree I think the Don tour was different & special & I for one am happy I got to 'see' them together for there short 10 date tour. Its a shame that Don couldn't fulfill his end of the agreement (but I guess if Fmac asked Stevie to come don't you think she'd have left the tour as well??)....but it is what it is....no big deal. I think it was good because the songs were different. Of course for me I wish she'd had her Tusk or BD/WH voice but those are the eras I like ......I liked Don on her songs as well. It was different for both of them and different is always a good thing. I've seen her on these last 2 CV tours 07/08 and well yes her voice was ok for me but everything was just too rehersed & expected. Yes she sang 'covers' but I personally would've perferred songs from her own catalog. I don't care how she'd have sang them at least she could've tried too. I think 'try' is the operative word here. She doesn't seem to want to try much from her own catalog. Don't even get me started about the stealing stuff either (music/net).....IMO anyway......:shrug:

I actually agree with you that Neils solo last tour wasn't his usual brilliance.
But, like some others we know "he's getting older too"

But to say Micks was better? Come on. Not even on the same planet. Not even possible to compare to two really. Mick is good at what he does and Neil will be remembered as one of the best drummers in history.

Well, as for examples of "mistakes" i can't really say. I was never talking about them making mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes and I would never criticize a band for making them.

They just haven't sounded very tight yet. (I'm not talking about John or Mick...mostly Mama and Papa.)

No worries.

test,

I guess it re-enforcers your faith in cycles? LMAO

test,

AMEN Brother!! Always has!! Always will!!!!!

Mick is excellent at what he does. Not really a Rush fan. As has been mentioned elsewhere here, I agree that Rush is an acquired taste. Nothing against them, just have never gotten into the music. I have seen video of Neal Pert and think he is exceptional at the drums.

Mick is great what he does because he comes from a particular style. He's a blues drummer at heart. That is where his base/foundation is. His influences come from great blues drummers and African drum rhythms. I honestly don't know where Pert's influences come from so I can't compare the two. (Again, nothing negative about Pert!!) Just saying that Mick comes from a particular drumming style and base which underscores everything he does.

I really wish he would stretch himself more during his solo, perhaps add some different percussion instruments (NOT the vest!!!!!!) and really show off a little more than what I've seen on the videos that have been posted so far. The man is a maniac when he gets going and if this is the "Unleashed" tour, then Mick should "unleash" himself and really "go off" in his solo.

Finally, Mick will be remembered as a great drummer, in my opinion. As good as some others? Maybe, maybe not, but remembered he definitely will be.

(Am I being passive/aggressive?);):laugh::laugh::laugh:

No, she doesn't want to try anymore and it's become painfully obvious. The reason why she was so good with Don in '05 was because she knew that she was sharing the stage with another rock legend and probably wanted to impress him and his fans that attended those shows. I'm sure it was fun for her as well, as she got to do some different things and sing some different songs that she never attempts to do when she's by herself. I saw a similar enthusiasm from her when she toured with Tom in '06. Why? Well, because she was doing different songs (Insider, Don't Come Around Here No More, American Girl) and it was probably exciting for her.

However, the verdict is in - even Stevie's most vocal supporters on this board who have now seen her performances on the Unleashed Tour are all saying pretty much the same thing - that her spark for performing is no longer there.

I said this a few weeks ago and I'll say it again. She either needs to start being an active, creative artist again and start performing new/different material or she needs to bow out and retire.

Geesh! Not even I, an acid pi**er was that harsh!
Common shes 60 years old!
She can't be prancing around and acting like she's 45 again!

I would say the fact she's even up there at all is something special.

What if she fell and broke a hip?:distress:

Could she be more interactive? Sure.
I mean even I would give her a break as far as being "energetic up there".

Did anyone notice how strange her makeup looks?
She doesn't look anything like she did in that CNN video her and Lindsy did.

test,