2009 tour: Aren't you glad Christine retired from touring?
 

This new 2009 'Hits' thing sounds rather horrendous, doesn't it? I mean, without Christine, and pretending they can do the hits without her.

Much as I'd love to have seen the Mac live with Christine as part of it, I am really quite glad that she stopped when she did. The majority of those remaining band members, I feel, really have lost a good deal of their stage presence: Lindsey lost his vocal range some time ago, and Stevie on the SYW tour was not particularly great. Mick, equally, I just felt sorry for when he was doing his 'drum solo'.

So, I welcome a possible new album, and thank goodness Christine knew when to quit. A very British trait, I feel ;)

But it does rather annoy me that now they're marketing this nonsense next year as some sort of Dream Greatest Hits Tour when it cannot possibly be. And anyway, they do it every tour. As someone sagely observed here, they're in danger of becoming The Eagles: the very epitome of profit-before-ethics.

If Chris had continued to record and tour with Fleetwood Mac, I would have continued to buy the records, listen to them, and go see them in concert. And it would have been good, I'm sure. But I think 'In the Meantime' is better than what the classic lineup would have produced with her as part of it, so yes, from that point of view I'm glad she retired from touring.

It doesn't matter much to me what the Christine-less FM is doing, since I'm not about to pay arena prices to see them. What I don't understand is they're apparently touring and THEN they're going to record an album? (Or did I misunderstand that?) That doesn't make much sense.

That is exactly what they are doing and you're correct it makes no sense.

I totally agree.

I probably wont go to a concert on their tour next year (always assuming they grace Europe with their presence). I say probably because I haven't missed a UK tour since 1973 and it would feel a bit like breaking the chain (get it?)

But a Greatest Hits tour? Isn't that a bit like a lounge act?

If Christine was touring I'd definately go just because it won't ever happen again but as that's not likely I may just keep my money.

Gail

I am definitely glad that Chris stopped touring when she did. It looks like that means maybe more new music from her, which is just fine by me. Like Joanne said, I could care less about a Fleetwood Mac without Christine McVie, although the new Rumours CD/DVD package sounds interesting. I wonder if it's going to include any of that Japan Live/Documentary footage.

Also, she'll be 65 next summer. She knew when to quit. The Dance was a perfect way to end it for her, and in my opinion it would have been a perfect way to end Fleetwood Mac, period.

I don't understand why it is so hard for them to put out some new material. Obviously both Lindsey and Stevie are quite prolific in their output. Sure, they might not sell in Rumours quantities, but at least they would keep their artistic integrity. I for one would be happy to go and see them do new stuff. I was really happy with the SYW album, sure it wasn't like it was in the heyday but it was new.

Yes I'd probably pay to see them do a greatest hits package, but I'd hope for so much more...

Because they still haven't accepted the fact that their music is no longer relevant in terms of the charts, and thus they overthink everything related to the production. That's really all it is. It's not that hard to make an album. Hell, they could actually record the album with Christine without Christine ever setting foot in L.A.

Bob Pollard has a few albums coming out soon, and he just started recording these albums back in July/August. The music for one of the albums was recorded in Portland, Oregon, and the vocals were done in Kent, Ohio. So, it IS possible. It doesn't need to be perfect, just good enough.

As to the band touring then recording, that may have some advantages. I think the album could take less time to record and be tighter musically, since they'll be used to playing together again.

It's all fairly crass, but all of rock is -- all of pop culture is. This Fleetwood Mac business is no different from stretching a sitcom to infinity (or seven or eight years of lousy seasons), or of milking Bessie the Holstein. So you can't blame the Fleetwoods in isolation from the rest of the world.

My aesthetic response to the endless spinning out of seasons of the Fleetwood Mac saga is very consistent since my teen years to the present: The band I dug so keenly was a completely different band -- different sound, different presence, different atmosphere, different style, different look, different everything. Today's band apparently still appeals to thousands of people, so good for everyone. But it is unquestionably a just about completely different band. And my "experience" of these guys exists only in a Proustian recollection: some small repeated gesture amplified in a slowly receding memory.

My Fleetwood Mac is Gatsby's green light.

I wonder who is the driving force behind that though? Who still thinks they are relevant in terms of the charts? I wouldn't have thought Lindsey really cared - it never seemed to affect his solo output. So who else would it be? Surely not the record companies - they must know the ability of the band to sell/not sell.

You make some great points here. Other then money being there motive here.....to me its not 'love' of getting the music out anymore. I feel that way about Stevie's solo stuff. All the GH package's are just ways to get more money really....milking the cow ...so to speak but it would seem the milk has run dry already but they can't or won't accept it. I agree its not hard to put 'new' music out. Even though I don't love the download thing at all but they could do that and release limited edition #'d cds. Or box sets with only unrelased material/which we all know that there is more...Lindsey really needs his own boxed set..........Stevie could put re-issues' out of her solo stuff or masters or all the unreleased tracks....as well as the offical DVD releases of the HBO 'full' special with extras.....and Christine could do a box set as well.....Fmac could re-issue from 'Live' on (Mirage/Tango/Mask)....as well as offical DVD's of the Mirage HBO special with extras....the Tusk Doc with extras...Tango updated with full concert extras....a Mask concert....who knows .....the list is really endless.....Stevie could release a book of unreleased photos since I doubt we'll ever see a full bio from her ever.....unless she really has it written but its in some 'valuet' someplace locked away?? who knows. The possiblies exsist but they don't see it. I will not either be paying for an expensive ticket next yr to hear the 'hits' all over again.......its not worth the $$......but to each his /her own.....we all have to do what we have to do or not. No offence just an opinion......:shrug::distress:
PS: forgot to add that Christine knew when to leave...she was the smart one by the looks of it.......and she is enjoying herself and her life. She has one....guess the others can't forgo there ego's to really live there life beyond music.....heck they wouldn't ever have to tour again period.....just with all the stuff mentioned above.....& there's probably alot that we don't even know about......? I guess they all need the $$ or thats what it's looking like anyway.......

I think the question is.. will they do a GREAT SHOW? without Chris?

Tina Turner has no top ten singles anymore. Neither Cher. But people looove to see their shows. Will Fleetwood Mac do the same? The Reunion tour (the Dance) was great because they were still in good (voices) shape. Now is 11 (12 in 209) years later. And Christine McVie is not in the band. I think the shows will be fine, that's it.

If they want to go on the road for fun and earn money, good for them. I don't think the toour will be a disaster. I don't think they will perform bad. But if we compare with the 80s or 70s tours, even with the _Reunion tour, obvioulsy we will be dissapointed.

Good point.

Gail

Fleetwood Mac throughout their history have had a talent for re-inventing themselves. I'd like to see what's left of FM re-invent themselves again, this time as an indie band. The problem with 'Say You Will,' beside the obvious lack of Christine, was it was too ambitious. Half the number of songs, half the time spent in the studio (or much less, even), would have produced a much better record. If they didn't make such a big deal out of recording (and touring), they might even entice Chris to make a contribution to a new record. You can record a good song in a day ... heck, you can record a good song in an hour. If they all got on a plane and went to her, and put her nephew in charge with instructions to keep a strict eye on the clock, they could crank out a couple of numbers for a new record with Christine without her even having to change out of her pyjamas.

I agree with your observations about the practicalities, but there isn't the will. Christine would be far too scared that it enticed her back into a world she has had enough of. Equally, I still think that Lindsey would see any such move as retrograde and almost a concession of power/sound on his part.

I honestly feel that Christine did not artistically dig the sensation of recording with Fleetwood Mac anymore.

I don't think she said it publicly because she is pretty diplomatic when it comes to speaking with the media in this regard. I did get the sense that she felt the music was starting to suffer.

Christine was a musician vs an entertainer... which quite often contrasted the other two in my opinion. And I can hear the lack of magic between them when they sing now... I think she obviously could too..

This is why I have a great deal of respect for her decision to retire. I think Lindsey should have respected it too and I was miffed that he didn't because it showed his lack of character. I really enjoyed In The Meantime and also thought Gift of Screws was solid..

I don't think the FM effort is of the quality it used to be and therefore, would like to see more solo work evolve from each of them... if not... I applaud all of their careers as very successful, artistic and lucrative.

As far as buying into this "Unleashed tour" not going to happen for me... The same songs just keep getting worse... and the price just keeps getting worse...their need to drive a grand institution into the ground just keeps getting worse... and my need to see them well... .it's just fading away....

It wouldn't even take all of them to go. Just Lindsey. Although Mick would probably come anyway.

All they have to do is take some songs that they want her to play and sing on and then pick a couple of her new songs to work on. Lindsey (and Mick) then take them back to L.A. and Bob's your Uncle! She even really have to have more than a couple of new songs on the album and they wouldn't get their knickers in a twist about her writing a "hit" and people expecting it to be played because as I understand it the album will probably be after the "Lounge" tour

Gail

Yeah, Mick is good because he has some fun creative ideas and he also cements people together. So, in case there were any arguments, he needs to be there:p. But you could leave those other 2 at home.

This is my dream -- and I dream in quintet, not stereo.

Michele

Interesting way of putting it. This is why in my thinking Chris was the heart of that band ... the absolute center. She kept the band grounded. You know the picture on the inside of 'Tusk' where Stevie and Lindsey are floating around up by the ceiling of a room, and Chris and John are standing on the floor with bemused looks on their faces ... that picture tells a lot about their characters and relationships with one another.

I haven't actually heard 'Gift of Screws.' I lost interest in both Lindsey's and Stevie's solo stuff after the first couple of records.

I agree. I go to a lot of concerts but my tastes tend to run to lesser-known performers from the indie world, where typically you can buy a ticket for $25 and if you get there early you can sit in the front row. If this were FM with Christine I'd spend the two hundred bucks or whatever it is, but not for the band as it is today. I wonder how ticket sales are going to go, actually, with people hurting financially the way they are.

By the way, what exactly is being "unleashed" ... it looks to me like it's a same old thing tour. How can they possible claim it's a greatest hits tour when they're not going to perform "Over My Head," "Hold Me," "Say You Love Me" and all of Christine's other hits.

Now for me, I don't think Chris was the heart of the band. I think, overall, Mick is. He wasn't a great manager, but I think he's a great mediator and can bring and keep divergent personalities together. As greedy as he is, he has an ego that subverts itself for the good of the band most of the time. As long as you don't sleep with Jenny . . .

But Stevie has said that Christine was like the school teacher and without her, they were just running around like little children, waiting to be called in from recess. I believe that. When we hear demos and things, you can clearly hear Chris orchestrating their rehearsals. I suppose I would call her a "center" of sorts.

I do think she tethered the other two, by being in between them. Someone each of them could play off of, rather than battling each other. I think that was true from 1975 on. I think she stopped a lot of friction, just being another person they could couple with.

One moment that stuck with me from the Dance tour was when Lindsey was announcing the wrong song and Stevie didn't say anything to him. She went to Christine and whispered to her and then, from her piano, Christine called to Lindsey that he was introducing the wrong song. It was a very small thing, but I think it was symbolic of the way the 3 of them communicated. With Christine there, Lindsey and Stevie didn't have to deal directly with each other.

Then, musically, I do think it's uncanny the way Christine and Lindsey were so different, her trained, him untrained, yet they could arrive at such a good and unique place together. That collaboration. You can have a dinner with broccolli, steak and apple pie and you might not salivate over the steak, unless someone serves you just a plate with broccolli and pie, or pie and steak. Only then do you realize you don't have a full meal. That's how the 3 of them balanced each other for me.

Michele

very wel put Michelle, and I just looooove the Christine story, I can't get emough of mama Christine

Regarding this upcoming tour: You so eloquently expressed my feelings exactly. I was conflicted when I heard about them touring again -- happy to have the chance to see them again - but skeptical about the "HITS" theme (as if they never ever do any of their hits !??). And while they do have enough hit songs outside of Christine's songs, she has the most consistent string of well-known hits.

It definately smells like Eagle poop! They don't realize it, but it's a big middle finger to their real long-time fans. How about giving us something new to get engaged/inspired by-- something other than regurgitating the vomit of their redundancy for the sake of enlarging their retirement funds???

This seems to be the theme among artists who get to a certain stage in a long career. When Elton John did a live HITs album not too long ago I almost wanted to gag...but of course I bought it...and only gagged for a little while, then got over it. Still, the blatent "cash-in" is hard to ignore from Stevie and Fleetwood Mac as of lately. Lindsey, though complicit, is the stand-out member for actually being a productive artist; making some new, innovative music and performing impassioned shows in which the focus is on artistry, and not a merely a visit to an ATM.

Look, I'd love to seen them finally live, but I don't understand the whole thing. Why not release a box set now & a new album next year?

I'm quite sure that they will never be best friends. You might ask, "what does that have to do with his first part of this post?", but to me that's the reason why they do this.

I am sure that the reason we aren't getting new material right now is because of band relations. I don't know if we could have had an entire album anyway, but there could have been a few songs, if not for inner friction. Some of them are hoping that the tour goes well enough that they will be comfy enough to record new music later, since not now.

However, Christine is the answer to that problem too. If Stevie doesn't want to record with Lindsey now, she would definitely record if Christine was going to be on the tracks.

Why don't they realize it though? That's the question. Actually, they don't even seem to acknowledge the focused fans much, except when Stevie said it was the hard core fans stealing her music. For the most part, when they talk about their concert goers, they seem to have the casual fans in mind.

Yet, Mick just got off of a solo tour. Who exactly does he think was going out to see him perform? It wasn't the people who only know the FM "hits." They know the focused fans are out there. I guess there are just so few of us, that we don't have enough money to make them care. Michele

They should just release an EP

Wow a term I hadn't heard in a while....


Steve what's your favorite EP?

Guided by Voices: Hold On Hope EP

http://www.gbvdb.com/images/guided_by_voices_hoh_ep.jpg

An EP? That is way too innovative for Fleetwood Mac!!

I believe the situation wasn't that Christine didn't want to record with Fleetwood Mac, it's that she didn't want to be committed to all the obligations that come with it - the PR, months away from home on tour, the whole scene. She was tired and done with the rock and roll lifestyle and ready for a different, more placid change of pace.
But I share your thoughts completely about this nonsense called "Unleashed" The name itself is so dubious, cliched and over-reaching. That said, I will probably see a show, but with full knowledge of them milking a dying cow. Who knows, maybe will penguins fly and they actually create an inspired, fresh approach and arrangement to their set.

Oh well... *whistles classic riff*

Honestly, if this unlikely scenario were to happen, I think Stevie would fly out to Kent just to be Christine for a little while. And if that were the case, then John would probably HAVE to come, too.

Plus they know we "focused" fans will support just about anything they do, whether we're satisfied or not.

Actually, No Doubt is doing the exact same thing in 2009, so Fleetwood Mac are not the only band to follow this trend.

That doesn't make much sense for them, either LOL

Its my opinion that the notion that you need to tour behind/in support of a new album is an outdated, antiquated concept from the days where album sales were of paramount importance to a band revenue-wise. These days, its not just for the Billy Joel's & Eagles' of the world- it makes sense for a wide variety of bands on many different levels.

This is true. Most of the live shows I saw this year were not by bands touring behind a brand new album and I was not bothered at all by that.

But, for what it's worth, none of the tickets were this expensive, either.

I'm not saying a band has to have a new album to tour. Not at all. But it seems if you're going to spend a chunk of time recording an album and a chunk of time touring, it makes sense to record the album first so fans will have something to buy during the tour. Isn't having new songs to perform critical to a band staying fresh?

Well, yes, but since when has Fleetwood Mac ever really considered this to be important?

Not since before many of you were born!

Hahahahahahahaha.... We'd like to do a new song, this is by Stevie Nicks it's called Landslide....

Nothing will top "The Dance" DVD, for me. I would love to see Christine back onstage and in the studio. While I still love the Mac, without her, the band chemistry has changed and become something else.