I went to Jones Beach today
 

From time to time Jones Beach pops up in one thread or another here, always because it is a stop for Stevie when she does a summer 'shed' tour. Now, because of it's greatly increased size, it is also a stop for FM. (well, come to think of it, BTM-era stopped here too)

I usually butt in with my .02, but today I went there only after a lonnng time absence. I was visiting my mom who lives on the island, and decided to head due south until I reached Jones. As today was the first day of 'Spring Ahead', it was a longer day of sun and oh it was just gloriously sunny. All day, until about 7pm. Fantastic, and this always helps my mood issues clear up until the next winter. Oh, well it was cold. But, sunny.

Unfortunately, when I went to snap pics with my digital cam the message on the little screen read "Please insert memory stick". (Note to self: keep spare memory stick in glove box).
I took pics with my phone. Arrgh. I wanted you all to see how stark and beautiful the Atlantic ocean is up here in winter...these silly phone pics do it no justice at all. Sigh.

This is the edge of the parking area, where you can simply walk out onto the soft white sand (not pebbles, not rocks, but fine white quartz sand) to the water.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...tr01/beach.jpg

This is the picnic area right on the ocean. High tides and rain have filled it in with water so right now it looks like a little pond and the seagulls are feasting on something. In summer, this is a very festive area with people grilling food. For some reason, this picnic area attracts a large Latino contingent. In summer, they have salsa playing and kites flying...and the foods are just heavenly smelling. Much more interesting than burgers and dogs. Their parties last well into the evening. This is also the prime kite-flying zone year-round. God, I love this beach.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...r01/beach2.jpg

This pic is junky. I took it from my MOVING car on the Ocean Parkway. The ocean was on my left, and Zach's Bay is on the right...in the distance you can see the Jones Beach Theater. Yes, the theater is actually on the bay side, but from those high grandstand seats you can the boats coming in. At night, when the boats have their lights on, and the ocean breeze comes in, and Stevie is singing 'Still of The Night'...well it's just goosebumps, I tell ya.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...astr01/jbt.jpg

Great pics Pete!! I SOOOO want to go there one of these days! I have a good friend in the Bronx who is not doing too well, and I HAVE to get over there to meet/see her.. Plus, I have other friends who live in/ or near the NY area who I'd love to meet too!

I was born in Wantagh and lived there for my first 13 years. We used to go to Jones Beach all of the time in the summer. Thanks for posting those- that was a trip down memory lane for me!

Get OUT.

I'm from Levittown, originally. :nod:

Ha, I think my family used to go to a YMCA or some kind of a health club in Levittown when I was little. We moved out to the Eastern End of LI when I was 13.

Wasn't Jones Beach (park) the creation of Robert Moses?

Jack Lalane's. Or, now it's called 'Bally's'. It's right by my old high school. I went to college out East, not way out...but sort of out.
In Stony Brook.

Sometimes I don't realize the beautiful things that are out there on the island now that I live here in the city. So close, but so far. It took me 2 hours to get to my brothers house in Bellmore, next town over from Wantagh, from Brooklyn this morning. I keep my car parked there, you see. So I have to take 2 subways and a train to get out there to pick it up. :distress:

I think Stevie has said she could either only live by the ocean, or in the desert. That she needs the energy of those places. I think I tend to agree. There is such magic near the crashing waves, and a desert at night?....just lovely.

Yes, and he declared it his 'crown jewel'. In it's day, it was an art-deco wonderland.

I have always lived by the ocean- first in Wantagh and then in Mattituck. Later in life, I moved to Florida for a while. It's difficult to live in NC in that I am 3 hours from the beach.

Can you believe my father commuted first from Wantagh and then from Mattituck into Manhattan (where he worked) for over 20 years? :shocked:

Hooo, Matticuck to Manny-Hanny??? Good lord, what a long trip that must have been every day. Oy. At least 60 miles.

I read the "Power Broker" book by Robert Caro...all about the dictator Moses. IMO he did great things for New York City

I should go there one of these days. I just have to overcome my midwestern phobia of driving in the New York area.:lol:

i have never been to jones beach. have you seen any shows there. especially stevie shows?

I miss the ocean. :( I'm a New England girl. Thanks for the photos.

That book is on my list of things I want to read soon. I might pick it up next, after I finish the glurge my mother bought me ('The Gift'- a chicken soupy for the soul kinda book).

Robert Moses did do some great things. But, he also cut off access to the waterfront for most NYC folks with the West Side Highway and FDR Drive projects. But, now that our waterfront is no longer a 'working waterfront', I think slowly the desire for waterfront access will override the physical limitations and we'll some more creative thinking. Converting old piers, for one- or reclaiming land by using landfill.

I forgive him for that, when I see the stunning beauty of the Verrazano Narrows Bridge.

so i'm going to go ahead and assume if you went out to jones beach that you did not have as much rain up there as we did down here -- it was flood city saturday. i haven't been up there since '04 but it was a very interesting venue to say the least!

oh, it was rain-city here on Saturday too. I never even left my apartment that day. But Sunday....it was glorious. And perfectly fitting for the first day off of Standard Time. Praise to Helios, and to Ra, and Arien and Apollo and to all the other sun Gods and Goddess.

Did you get a chance to stop in the Robert Moses museum? Is it still open? I remember stopping in there many years ago... and we were the only paying customers in there. But at least it was air conditioned! Anyway, it was actually pretty fascinating... It was fascinating how he really left his impression on the New York landscape in the way of parkways, highways, bridges, etc. And I believe he was the one trying to ram a downtown Manhattan elevated roadway down everybody's throats, and Jane Jacobs was not having any of it (bless her heart). I could just imagine the West Village looking like Jackson Heights! :eek:

Glad it was such a nice day at Jones. I was out further east at my house and it was too windy to go out- the waves were just unbelievable. On my way back to the city I heard about Donald Trump opening a restaurant on the boardwalk at Jones Beach. Oh yeah, I'm sure Joe and Jane Six-Pack will want to head to the beach with their five kids and shell out $150 for fancy corndogs. :rolleyes:

So let me guess... Parking Lot 6, right? :p

Field 6, of course, always.

Yes, you're 100% right, Jane Jacobs halted Moses' efforts to plow right through Greenwich Village. Now that would have been a change to the urban landscape. Apparently, he was no major lover of mass transit and his vision of the future was all car-oriented. They say that the State Parks on Long Island were not accesible for the longest time, as he made the overpasses on the roadways too low for buses to pass under. This eliminated 'undesirables' (ie, poorer persons of color) from the urban areas from using his parks- Long Island at the time was pretty homogenously white. Tsk tsk.

I have a little "Jones Beach story" to tell, sort of.
Some of you might be like, ". . . .huh?" and some might be like, "Yeah, I know exactly what you mean." w/e., it's all good.

Anyway I arrived early for Stevie's concert at Jones Beach in 2005; and they weren't letting people in yet. So I went on over to the ocean - probably very close to where you took one of your photos - it was fairly close to the arena. And there was a dead horseshoe crab there. Stevie had just arrived and they had just started doing the sound check - playing "Stand Back." And I remember thinking - - - how fascinated Stevie is by nature - how she writes about it so often in her songs. And how, under some circumstances, Stevie would have LOVED to have gone out there and checked out that horseshoe crab. But at that moment - I mean, if somebody had mentioned it to her then? They'd be lucky if they got off with a blank stare and a "huh!?. . . . I'm BUSY now!"

Anyway - not that exciting, I admit, but somehow I found the whole thing interesting. I know she loves doing her shows, but I betcha there was some small part of her that would have wanted to blow off the show and go check that thing out, and maybe just sit down on the beach and write a song about it.

I hope she has seen it. She said this during her stop there in June '86 (RAL tour):

"Well, we've been here, this is our second night and I haven't seen the ocean yet. Is there really an ocean out there?"
(audience cheers)
"It occurred to me that...[inaudible]"
BATB begins starts
"...I felt it though."

1. I love you for using "Bless her Heart" :xoxo:

2. The highway already goes to The Battery anyway.

3. You cannot tell me you do not breath a sigh of relief when you do not have to stop at every intersection when NY9A becomes elevated.

4. The Donald wanted to put the highway underground on the Upper West Side, but New Yorkers just could not IMO stand that he would make money off of it. At least he had the nads to try and do something to make the eyesore go away while keeping the functionality of it :shrug:

Lord Child - I went to the TISL show there. My friend, who lived on 191st at the time (thus my love for and sigh of relief when entering the elevated portion of the highway :laugh: ) - wanted to take the LIRR there and back. Never happened and when I walked to the car past the hundreds if not thousands waiting for the BUSES to take them (hopefully in time) for the train back to the city and the driver opened the door and handed me a cocktail, I believe I breathed a sigh of relief harder than when entering the elevated portion of the WSH :cool:

Yes, and it wasn't just The Donald either. That project was bandied about since the late 60's, I believe. It was killed by politics, basically. Oh, and someone finally dumped enough money into research studies that said a variety of migratory fish (striped bass?) would be disturbed by the contruction. A shame...this would have sunk the West Side Highway from sight, and opened up waterfront access to the masses. A mega-project, on the scale of Boston's 'Big Dig'. Anyway, at the time NYC was all about one project: The World Trade Center. Then in the 70's NYC had a severe economic crisis, then in the early 80's we had the recession...seems like time was never right for the west side project.

I still believe (though not in my lifetime) that uninterrupted, unimpeded waterfront access will become a reality in NYC now that it is no longer has a 'working' waterfront. There is just too big a demand for it, and too much $$ to be made from waterfront condos, recreation facilities and such. There are dribs and drabs now, and certainly more than there used to be. But, not all of it is easily accessible and some parts still completely closed off. One day, I also see the public housing on the East Side all uprooted and moved to newer developments somewhere further away...and the existing projects converted to tony apartments with waterfront views else torn down and started from scratch. The residents there are a captive audience, NYC's public housing clearly states they have no choice (only a preference) of where their flats will be. I dont advocate this, but I do believe it is not 100% outside the realm of possibility.

I agree. I mean look at the condos being built on Riverside Blvd., which will connect in the near future to 59th and WEA - the begining of Hudson River Park. In fact, that whole Columbus Circle West area of Midtown West/Hell's Kitchen/Clinton is being revitalized. So, it seems to me that putting the highway underground makes sense, esp. when you have a private party who is a mover and a shaker who has demostrated that he can get things done is at the helm and his own money was in it :shrug:

My fav. story about the construction of the elevated FDR on the East Side is that the well heeled tenants of way fab. Art Deco masterpiece, miscegenating Vanderbilt excluding co-op known as River House were incensed to lose their private dock/yacht moorings :eek: Oh well, at least they mantained the gardens and River Club, with its squash courts :cool: Oh the horror!

My dad lives in Massapequa-right off Hicksville rd!!

I used to go to the Sunrise Mall in Massapequa when I was a kid. I haven't thought of this stuff in years! :laugh:

No, I'm not referring to the West Side Highway. I'm referring to a highway that Robert Moses wanted to build that would have run through the heart of what is known today as the West Village, Greenwich Village and SoHo. He was a megalomaniac- he wanted to be remembered as nothing less than the King of New York. Jane Jacobs rightfully argued that these kinds of highways had a tendency to destroy/isolate neighborhoods, which often fell prey to poverty, crime, drugs, etc. There are blighted areas like this all over Brooklyn and Queens that are proof of this. The West Side Highway, on the other hand, does not bisect any neighborhoods, with the exception of Battery Park City, which was meticulously pre-planned as an upscale residential development. Still, even though Battery Park City is not exactly a ghetto, it does have this vibe of being this desolate outpost that is not really part of Manhattan. It's kind of creepy, actually. There's no streetlife whatsoever and it is completely dead at night.

I breathe a sigh of relief when I come back from upstate, i.e., above 23rd St. :p


They were also considering doing that with the West Side Highway south of Chambers St. as part of the WTC reconstruction project. I think the idea kinda died out due to the prohibitive construction costs, which would have been more than the cost of rebuilding the skyscrapers themselves. I think the Donald is all talk, and he probably said this just to make the west-facing owners of his crappy condo development on WEA happy about their "investments." Those suckers are literally a dozen feet from the highway. Must feel nice having paid over a million bucks for a tiny one bedroom apartment and sucking exhaust fumes 24/7.



Child, not for all the curry in India would I take a bus to Jones. My name ain't Rosa Parks!

Well, the waterfront does seem to be pretty accessible today, especially along the Hudson. If anything I'm kinda glad that the highway separates the riverfront parks because it somehow keeps the parks more pristine in a way. On the otherhand, if the waterfront was tied directly to the grid, you know there would be plenty of a$$-hats driving through the park or dumping their garbage (or bodies) there. Or there would be plenty of cops or firefighters with their city parking permits illegally parked everywhere. I love the fact that the waterfront today is strictly pedestrian only and that it truly is for everyone, and not just for the rich.

As for public housing... I seriously doubt the projects in Manhattan will be going away anytime soon. For one thing, there are soooo many units. Secondly, there would be such an incredible backlash against any politico even hinting at the suggestion that these projects should be relocated. And it goes without saying that it smacks of racism and classism, even if that is not the motive.

Yes, but it's not uninterrupted. Sure, there are long stretches of recreational areas, but you couldn't make a complete circumnavigation of the island- and I bet alot of cyclists and nature enthusiasts would love that. Well one good thing they've done in the last dozen years or so is enable crossing over the West Side highway to the piers. I remember at the end of Christopher Street, trying to cross over and playing chicken with the 6 lanes of traffic. Ya coulda got killed, I tell ya.

Yes, and again I'm not saying it will be in my lifetime or if it's even right. I just don't think it's outside the realm of possibility. Stranger things have happened. And besides, isn't the idea of putting the poor in concentrated areas stigmatizing in itself? I think it's a very old model, a paradigm. Why not integrate those who can't afford the higher market rents into the mainstream communities, by making a greater percentage of those rentals stabilized, or low-cost? I know, it's a fantasy world I live in. And, it's an unfair world too.

Mea Culpa :o

Very creepy at night and almost hazy and dreamlike during the day. I will say this though, the views are stunning.

How vivid.

You ain't lying on that Child.

9/11 was almost seven years ago. There is no longer any need for you to "entertain" all those cops and firemen in your 200 sq. ft. 1/2 bath West Village loft. In fact, YOU are the one responsible for the illegal parking in the West Village if not most neighboring parts of Chelsea :wavey:

You mean like this fiasco on the other side of the island:

June 19, 2007

A Co-op on Sutton Place Sues to Keep Its Backyard

By CHARLES V. BAGLI

The owners of an exclusive co-op on Sutton Place South have taken to the barricades, or at least to State Supreme Court in Manhattan, in an attempt to block the city from seizing a swath of their emerald green backyard for a public park.

The owners of the 13-story building at 1 Sutton Place South have long regarded the quiet, grassy oasis, which stretches over Franklin D. Roosevelt Drive and offers strictly private views of the East River, as one of the most compelling amenities in a building where apartments routinely sell for many millions of dollars.

The city’s Department of Parks and Recreation contends that the co-op owners are effectively squatting on city land. It has plans to turn slightly more than half of the backyard garden into a quarter-acre park.

The department claims that the co-op’s lease for the land, which the city acquired from the co-op owners in 1939, expired 17 years ago. After years of negotiation, the state and the city notified the co-op late last month that the department was about to start construction of a fence and park “on Parks property adjacent to 1 Sutton Place.”

The residents, including Sigourney Weaver; John Fairchild, the retired publisher of Women’s Wear Daily; and Carl H. Tiedemann, the former president of the investment banking firm Donaldson, Lufkin & Jenrette, are vowing to defend their piece of Manhattan against all intruders.

“The city’s proposing to build a park on property it doesn’t own,” said John L. Vogelstein, a resident and the former president of Warburg Pincus, a private equity firm. “The facts are borne out by their own construction drawings, clearly as can be.”

Yesterday, a judge granted a temporary order blocking the city from moving forward. The co-op claims in the lawsuit that the city’s own construction maps and photographs show that the co-op actually owns a substantial portion, if not all, of its backyard. Further, the co-op says that the city has failed to take the proper steps required by the City Charter to develop the park.

If it loses the case, the co-op is seeking $10 million in compensation for the property.

The city disputes the co-op’s claims. Eric Runkbaken, chief of real estate litigation for the city’s Law Department, said yesterday that he was hopeful that the court would rule quickly in the city’s favor “so the Parks Department can proceed with plans to create a park for the public’s benefit.”

The issue dates back to a time when the East Side’s welter of breweries, slaughterhouses and factories was giving way to a wealthy residential enclave. It involves obscure legal issues and historical figures like Mayor Fiorello H. La Guardia; Robert Moses, the city’s legendary builder; and Paul Hammond, a racing yachtsman who lived at 1 Sutton Place and who negotiated the transfer in 1939 on the co-op’s behalf.

With the city planning to build what is now F.D.R. Drive, the owners of the co-op granted the city a permanent easement in 1939 as part of a friendly condemnation proceeding. In return, the city agreed to enclose the highway and pour soil over the roof, or deck, so that the residents would not be disturbed by the noise and odor of passing cars. The city leased the decktop to the co-op for $1 a year.

The co-op sought to extend the lease before it expired in 1990. Later, the owners took steps to keep the matter from becoming public by requiring prospective buyers to review the legal status of the backyard and sign a strict confidentiality agreement.

The question of ownership came to a head in 2003 when the state’s Department of Transportation began a $147 million rehabilitation of F.D.R. Drive between 54th and 63rd Streets and had to tear up the garden to fix the deck.

www.nytimes.com

These are the same cheap $100 million + people who likely keep their illegal and $1.50 an hour Filipino servants locked in the 8x8 servants' quaters behind the kitchen :eek: :laugh:

Sic transit gloria mundi :cool:

"And the days go by..." :nod:

I just bought 'The Power Broker' last night. It's a mighty tome. I'll be reading this for the next few months! But, so far it's pretty interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_Broker