Please Die Fighting for My Rights
 

. . . but, after you are dead, you are a filthy fag who does not deserve a proper burial - hmmmm, what would Jesus say?

Church Cancels Memorial for Gay Navy Vet

By ANGELA K. BROWN
Associated Press Writer

ARLINGTON, Texas — A megachurch canceled a memorial service for a Navy veteran 24 hours before it was to start because the deceased was gay.

Officials at the nondenominational High Point Church knew that Cecil Howard Sinclair was gay when they offered to host his service, said his sister, Kathleen Wright. But after his obituary listed his life partner as one of his survivors, she said, it was called off.

"It's a slap in the face. It's like, 'Oh, we're sorry he died, but he's gay so we can't help you,'" she said Friday.

Wright said High Point offered to hold the service for Sinclair because their brother is a janitor there. Sinclair, who served in the first Gulf War, died Monday at age 46 from an infection after surgery to prepare him for a heart transplant.

The church's pastor, the Rev. Gary Simons, said no one knew Sinclair, who was not a church member, was gay until the day before the Thursday service, when staff members putting together his video tribute saw pictures of men "engaging in clear affection, kissing and embracing."

Simons said the church believes homosexuality is a sin, and it would have appeared to endorse that lifestyle if the service had been held there.

"We did decline to host the service — not based on hatred, not based on discrimination, but based on principle," Simons told The Associated Press. "Had we known it on the day they first spoke about it — yes, we would have declined then. It's not that we didn't love the family." [My Fav. Line :rolleyes: ]
Simons said the decision had nothing to do with the obituary. He said the church offered to pay for another site for the service, made the video and provided food for more than 100 relatives and friends. [and. while your at it, filthy black people should use this special door :rolleyes: ]

"Even though we could not condone that lifestyle, we went above and beyond for the family through many acts of love and kindness," Simons said.

Wright called the church's claim about the pictures "a bold-faced lie." She said she provided numerous family pictures of Sinclair, including some with his partner, but said none showed men kissing or hugging.

The 5,000-member High Point Church was founded in 2000 by Simons and his wife, April, whose brother is Joel Osteen, well-known pastor of the 38,000-member Lakewood Church in Houston. Now High Point meets in a 432,000-square-foot facility in Arlington, near Dallas.

Wright said relatives declined the church's offer to hold the service at a community center because they felt it was an inappropriate venue. It ultimately was held at a funeral home, but the cancellation still lingered in some minds, she said.

___

On the Net:

High Point Church: http://www.churchunusual.com


Find this article at:
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/shar...ge_tab_newstab (emphasis and commentary supplied)

Truly DISGUSTING!!!

http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/3dlil/puke.gif Pathetic, brainwashed little pigs.

I wouldn't want my funeral in that church anyway.

I could go on quite a bender about what I think of the Osteen church philosophy. But that's beside the point. These church people suck.
On another note, did you hear that Fred Phelps is planning on protesting the funerals of the victims of the Minneapolis bridge collapse? :rolleyes:

I read his book and it was all about put the issue with the Lord and He will see to it that it happens if you have faith. I thought that sure was a nice thought, but The Lord helps those who helps themselves and no matter how faithful you are, the rent is due on the first and likely no one is just going to hand it to you every month. So, I concluded his book was full of shiite. He has good hair though.

Bless his heart! I hope God does not judge him as inanely as he has judged his fellow man in the name of God.

To sick for words :eek:

Fred Phelps Is Coming
by: Eric Black
Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 10:27:54 AM

The Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., plans to stage protests at funerals of victims of the 35W bridge collapse to state that God made the bridge fall because he hates America, and especially Minnesota, because of its tolerance of homosexuality.
The church and its pastor, the Rev. Fred Phelps, have become notorious over recent years for their claim that the attack of 9/11 was an act of God's vengeance and their determination to make that case at the funerals of U.S. soldiers who died in Iraq.

In a press release issued the day after the bridge collapse, the church called for protests at the funerals and outlined its feelings about the relationship between God's plan and the sins of Minneapolis and Minnesota, which it calls the "land of the Sodomite damned."

Reached at the church, Shirley Phelps Roper, who is both the daughter of the pastor and one of the attorneys for the church, said that America, and Minnesota especially, have alienated God by its tolerance for homosexuality, and that the bridge collapse was an act of God's vengeance. She said:

"The bridge stood in place by the word of God and it fell by the word of God...Each of these little events is just a harbinger of the coming destruction of this American experiment. We are delivering the final call of the doomed nation."
She said, as they have done for years, members of the church would stand "lawfully and peacefully on the public right of way" near the funerals and "put in the air words of praying and instruction and warning."
The signs that the protesters will wave will read:


"God cast down the bridge... Thank God for 9/11... America is doomed... God hates fags... God hates fag enablers... God hates Minnesota."

http://www.minnesotamonitor.com/show...o?diaryId=2184

Exactly. Handsome guy, nice looking wife. His heart seems to be in the right place. But then, so does his wallet.

Honestly. Does that *even* make sense? Since when is God about vengeance? What kind of 'loving' God is this? Not my kind...

If you want to fill your coffers, preach hate - sad, but very true :distress:

God bless America. :rolleyes:

That article about Fred Felps is too damn funny. I cannot stand bible beaters, especially people like that. Its just so appalling and far-fetched to me I can't help but laugh hysterically. Pft, people and their ridiculous beliefs these days. Everyone should be like me and become a Nonexistentialist.

My thoughts...

This would be no different, or worse than your own parent not showing at your funeral. Or not participating in your life because you are homosexual. I dont see where the distinction is drawn. The church itself has the right to do what they did, in my opinion. If this young man's mother or sister refused to host the service because she didnt agree with his lifestyle choice...then everyone's panties would still be in an uproar. Its only because the church was involved that media attention was brought to it. It seems to me, from what I read (if its true) that they did indeed try to help the family. I think the church upholding its right to not condone homosexuality is fair. However, there's probably some discrimination loopholes in there since churches are also considered "businesses."

He's too happy-go-lucky for me. Tickle the ears a little bit and make you feel warm and fuzzy. In terms of the ministry, I dont believe I've ever once see him preach against sinful nature.

I personally believe you cant go thru this life, and do whatever the f*ck you want, and expect to have the open-armed God waiting at the end of it for you. I believe he loves us unconditionally, yes, but I dont believe the God of the universe will condone your murdering, thievery, raping, lust for money, etc. That being said, I think we can experience a change of heart and turn from those things and start over. What I'm saying is, I dont think you can expect eternal bliss if you happen to die the same time you're slitting someone's throat.

More relig-a-tarded BS from more idiots of this country known as the United States of Hypocrisy

Yes, you are correct - the church is this case has the right to do whatever they want. However, that they did this IMO was a horrible thing. I mean this guy was a veteran who served his country. So, my issue is moral an ethical one than a legal one. As I have said many a time, all Christian churches I can think of are wildly hypocritical in their adherence to what they perceive as the Scripture. Remember, it was not that long ago that Chruches openly advocated "doctrine" that slavery was okay :eek:

They are loons. It probably comes from years of inbreeding. :laugh:

Of course they did. But it doesn't make it any less despicable.

Fred Phelps, or someone in his family, is going to die a brutal, unimaginable death sometime in the next five years. And who ever does it is going to become a national hero overnight. :lol:

But do you think Osteen is propagating that? I don't really get that from him. What I get from him is that if you follow a certain path then you will be rich, including materially. Underscore materially. I do believe you can bring any request to the Universe (or God, whichever works for you). It doesn't necessarily mean it will be honored. Where we find ourselves often has to do with where we intend to be. Now, I could write a whole dissertation on that last sentence. :lol:
Anyway, it's not like I've spent a whole lot of time studying Osteen. He's not my cup of tea.

Do you even understand God, or believe in one? I mean...take someone like Hitler. The man was responsible for the deaths of millions of people...do you believe that there isnt vengeance for all those people he killed? All those people that couldnt stop him? All the children he killed? I think God is as much a God of vengeance as he is a God of love. They are a balance, one in the other.

If God was a merely a God ONLY of love...with no checks and balances...then what kind of "perfect" God would he be? Frankly...I want a God...to believe in one that does give recompense. For me to believe otherwise would be against my own conscience.

I believe that God can bless you financially. But I dont believe its proper to DESIRE it. In my own life, I would love to have tons of money. I would love to win the lottery so I could provide a better life for my family and even my friends. Who wouldnt? But I dont lust after money, and my life doesnt revolve around my work and my paycheck. Does that make sense?

It seems to me that Osteen preaches primarily on prosperity only. And you know what? Kudos to him for finding his niche. It just seems to me that were I in his position, my conviction wouldnt reward me .

are you saying, then, that it's possible that the bridge falling is an act of vengeance? or that the towers falling on 9/11? or the tsunami? or any tragedy? that's absurd.

I'm referring more about the reprecussions after your life. In no way was I talking about "physical" or karmic sufferings in this life. I think we do bring thing upon us...reaping what we sow to a certain extent. But please dont try to pigeonhole me into that can of nuts that say 9/11 happened because of homosexual sin, or other such things. I wouldnt presume to make such statements.

i'm not pigeonholing you, i was asking for clarification. because that's what it sounded like you were saying ... to me anyway.

i still think the idea of a vengeful god - whether that vengeance is exacted before or after death - is absurd, though. :shrug:

I believe that in order for God to be true, he would have to be balanced. I hate to bring up the Hitler example...but I believe we all can agree the man was the devil. I cannot, and could not believe that an open-armed welcoming, loving God was waiting for Adolf after he shot himself. I believe there is vengeance and "payback" for the atrocities he chose to commit in this life. Hitler made those choices...therefore the "vengeance" i'm referring to was brought upon himself. He chose it for himself, not God.

If a man broke into your home, and murdered your family...and then shot himself...do you believe that man would be welcomed into "heaven"?

well, i don't really believe in the heaven/hell paradigm. i don't see "love" as one side of a love/hate equation ... it's just love. so i don't see a god who is purely about love as an unbalanced god.

Well you sly-ly and stylishly avoided the question. Fair enough. I personally couldnt go thru my life believing that. I believe God loves us all, unconditionally as a parent would. He doesnt love the things that we do, however. That's why we have choices. We were given the free will to make our own choices, so we arent forced into a coersed love with God.

i didn't avoid the question. i can't answer it because it presumes that i share a belief in heaven & hell, and i don't :shrug:

what do you mean by "we aren't forced into a coerced love with god"?

If you dont believe in a heaven or hell, I suppose you dont believe in anything after this life. That sucks. Again, that's something I that would go against my very being to believe. This argument would go on forever, but without taking a stand on something we'll just go round in circles. Therefore we must end it...but it was fun!

Coersion...You can choose to love God, or not love him. To acknowledge his existence, or to ignore it. That is the right and privilege of this life. He loves us regardless, I believe that. If you go thru life believing he isn't real...pissing on your fellow man...hating...murdering...slandering...lying...then I believe you'd made the choice for vengeance (going back full circle to what we talked about earlier).

not necessarily :shrug: heaven & hell isn't the only afterlife option.

oic. i didn't see the relevance to the discussion before ... i see how you're relating it now.

Why does that suck? Maybe you'll appreciate life more knowing that this is it, your one and only chance. And maybe your motives are purer if you lead a good life without expecting some kind of "reward" at the end of it.


I hate to bring it up as it's a boring old argument but there have been plenty of terrible acts committed by people who believe in God. Also there's many great saints who lived very sinful lives and repented. The thought of God being a vengeful one is awful to me. But whatever gets you through the day.

According to The Bible, God has shown His Wrath with far severer consequences. So, if you believe in The Bible's teaching, then it is not absurd. Personally, rather than calling it absurd, I prefer to say I do not think anything done on this Earth right now merits the Wrath seen in The Bible. I also think God worked through nature to exert his wrath in The Bible as opposed to the man made hate in the world right now. In the end, no one has the Batphone to Heaven. Som live your life as best you can and be kind to other people. In that, I think you will find whatever good peace you seek.

Also, Genesis teaches that there was good with no evil for the first two creations (yes, there are two in The Bible) -- but man's quest for knowledge could not allow that innocence to continue. Thus, evil became a force.

It just sucks...i hate that people believe and feel that way. I appreciate my life more knowing that there is a better one to come.

What you're saying about rewards...It begs the argument that if "good people" go thru leading a "good" life believing in nothing....and choose to believe in no God...but find themselves in that place when they die...do they deserve to be there? Do their choices warrant that?

I suppose in the end, I could never make that presumption. Only you and God knows your own heart. And I suppose the God of this universe can do as he pleases.

According to Catholic and most other Christian teachings (which have defined God (the Holy Trinity for the last 2000+ years) - if that man had acepted Jesus Christ as his personal saviour and had repented his sins prior to shooting himself and/or was insane - it is likely God would welcome him into heaven, though the suicide, not the murders, may keep him out of Heaven, according to some.

Christianity is all about repenting and sin is presumed before birth. Also, many faiths make no distinctions or minor distinctions amongst sins.

I see your point. They are valid. Its a touchy thing. I dont believe that believing in Christ and repenting of sins covers future sins. That is a big argument among Christianity today. I believe we must be forgiven daily. I dont think many of us can go thru the day without doing something that grieves the heart. At least, not me!

The creation stories in Genesis:

Creationists call us to believe the Biblical creation story as a literal account of historical events. However, Genesis contains two distinctly different creation accounts. Which creation story are they calling us to "literally" believe?


For generations, serious students of Scripture have noted stark divisions and variations in the age of the Hebrew, its style and language within Genesis. As we have it now, Genesis is actually a composite of three written primary sources, each with its own character, favorite words and distinctly different names for God. Such differences all but evaporate when translated into English, but they are clear in the ancient Hebrew text.


The first creation account, Genesis. 1:1 to Genesis. 2:4a, was written during or after the Jews' Babylonian captivity. This fully developed story explains creation in terms of the ancient near eastern world view of its time. A watery chaos is divided by the dome (firmament) of the sky. The waters under the dome are gathered and land appears. Lights are affixed in the dome. All living things are created. The story pictures God building the cosmos as a supporting ecosystem for humanity. Finally, humanity, both male and female, is created, and God rests.


The second Creation story, Genesis 2:4b to 2:25, found its written form several centuries before the Genesis. 1:1 story. This text is a less developed and much older story. It was probably passed down for generations around the camp fires of desert dwellers before being written. It begins by describing a desert landscape, no plants or herbs, no rain; only a mist arises out of the earth. Then the Lord God forms man of the dust of the ground, creates an oasis-like Garden of Eden to support the "man whom he had formed." In this story, God creates animal life while trying to provide the man "a helper fit for him." None being found, God takes a rib from the man's side and creates the first woman. These two creation stories clearly arise out of different histories and reflect different concerns with different sequences of events. Can they either or both be literal history? Obviously not.


Many serious students of Scripture consider the first eleven chapters of Genesis as non-literal, pre-history type literature, with Abram in Genesis. 12:1 being the first literal historical figure in the Bible. This understanding of Genesis causes an uproar in some quarters. In most church communities, little of this textual study has filtered down to the pew. But, in their professional training, vast numbers of clergy have been exposed to this type of literary scriptural analysis.


In my over 28 years as a pastor, I have encountered many people who are unnecessarily conflicted because they have been made to believe that, to be faithfully religious, one must take a literal view of the Genesis creation accounts. Faced with their scientific understandings going one direction and their spiritual search another, many have felt compelled to give up their spiritual search altogether. This all too common reaction is an unnecessary shame!


So, the next time someone asks you if you believe the Biblical story of creation, just remember the correct reply: "To which Biblical creation story do you refer?"



Rev. James W. Watkins has been pastor of Old South Church, United Church of Christ, Kirtland, OH, since November of 1993. Over a 28-year ministerial career, Rev. Watkins has been pastor of six churches. In addition to his pastoral work, Rev. Watkins is an author, educator, and community activist.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/2cs.htm

see also http://www.religioustolerance.org

Why would it bother you? As long as you have your faith why would you hate that others believe in something else?

And yes, if there is a heaven I'd imagine that a non-believer who has lived a good life would deserve to go there when they die and would be accepted with open arms. Do you think really think that not believing in God, or the right God or whatever, voids all their good deeds? The fact that you equate someone who doesn't believe in God with someone who deserves to burn in hell disturbs me. Having been brought up Catholic let me tell you, believing in God and even devoting your life to Him, doesn't automatically make you a good person.

How does that suck? I certainly don't think there is anything after we die, we just become part of the eternal nothingness. At least I don't have to spend my life living in fear, thinking I might go to Hell if I don't live my life the way some unseen force wants me to.

Is this 'and' or 'or' we're talking about here?

Well, it depends - are we discussing specifically your own personal and usual night out on the town :eek:

:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:

It bothers me because I have a love for my fellow man.

Since yer asking me...I would also say the person who claims to be loving God and not loving his brother is just as bad as the non-believer who lives a good life.