Something depressing I just realized
 

I just realized that in the same period of time since Say You Will came out, Fleetwood Mac released six albums (Future Games, Bare Trees, Penguin, Mystery To Me, Heroes Are Hard To Find, and Fleetwood Mac) and had five lineup changes.

What have we gotten in the last four years? A fairly average live concert DVD, another greatest hits CD from Stevie, lots of confusing doublespeak, and a solo album that music critics went gaga ape**** over but couldn't make an impression on the general public.

Boo.

I don't think it has been all that bad! Don't forget the marathon SYW tour, a marathon tour from Lindsey, a number of mini-tours from Stevie, a sublime solo album from Christine and a bajillion unreleased/alternate tracks on the reissues. I think it has been a great time to be a Fleetwood Mac fan- much better than the mid 90s drought when hardly anything worthwhile was going on.

^^

I tend to agree. Plus, SYW was a double album, esp. if you count the two extra songs on the DVD-R.

yep. I agree too. Stevie never stops working, really. to be their age and to have accomplished as much as they have, I'm thankful to have anything.

don't get me wrong, I'd love a helluva lot more and more than just "commercial" -

I concur. Putting of all of the touring aside, the volume (or lack there of) of their recorded/released material is abysmal. Granted, even during their heyday in the seventies, by industry standards, they were a band considered slow at work. Yet in 5 years they released 3 albums. I wish they were that slow today.

To add insult to injury, they can't even manage to get it together to give proper treatment to their already released material -- such as remasters of Mirage and Tango, Buckingham Nicks, plus various videos/material waiting for DVD release.

Most fans are lucky to be able to attend possibly one show each tour, if that. So all the touring in the world does nothing for fans who grow seven years older before they can expect something new.

honestly, i don't even care anymore :shrug: i still love FM and stevie, but i've moved onto other artists. i guess i'm kind of sad that i'm not sad that i don't think stevie will release another album.

wow, that is one ****ed up sentence.

****ed up is as ****ed up does, right? :laugh:

and I'm witchu on all of dat.

Im exactly the same - I don't really care if Fleetwood Mac record another album, I want Stevie to - but Im not holding my breath :shrug:

and lol @ HejiraNYC calling Christine's album sublime :laugh:

Hm, yeah. Count me in in the not caring department also, but for me it's not lack of interest or that I have moved on, it's just that I don't expect it anymore, so that makes it a lot more easy not to care. I think Stevie is doing her thang, whatever that may be, and if she's happy, so be it. I've made peace with that quite a while ago. In fact, all of Stevie's fans should wear t-shirts saying: It's easier to accept if you don't expect. It's applicable to albums, european tours, setlists, you name it. :p

Sorry, but did your realization necessitate a whole new thread when two days ago I started a tread regarding statistics of Say You Will that no one participated in? :shrug:

a) this is a completely different subject
b) saying that 3 songs on SYW included the word "poison" doesn't really constitute a discussion of SYW statistics, and
c) what the hell? savage can start whatever thread he wants.

oh, and d) what does it matter if nobody participated in your thread?

It's a great record!

Its nice enough - I'd hardly call it sublime though...

it may be fukced up, but it totally made sense of exactly how i feel.

you nailed it. 100%. i completely agree.

i'm so glad so many ledgies understand me :D

i'm just glad someone can make some sense of the mess of stuff that rattles around my brain that i don't always express in the most succinct or articulate manner. :)

the other point that i want to add is that i think it is unfair to compare the 70s and 80s to the 2000s in terms of music production. the appetite for music has changed, the way we access it has changed - and the sheer number of musicians (and packages who warble but look hott) flooding the market have made it almost impossible for a band or artist to release new music on a major label on a yearly basis. the major labels are only going to go with packages they can promote the hell out of - and get a return on. gone are the glory days when real artists could release a bunch of songs they wrote and performed and have it received and appreciated on its artistic merit alone.

and, our favourite little band members are no longer in their 20s and 30s. most people their ages are either retired or staring it down, counting the days til they can hang it up and relax.

I would say that In the Meantime was a stronger effort overall than SYW, and is full of everything we have loved about Christine for the past 35 years. And considering the fact that she was essentially retired and in her sixties when she released it, I think it was amazing that it could sound so fresh and committed.

I would

Gail

well, I seriously love christine's work to the bone from the Perfect-days untill TITN came out. From that point on, I think her work lacks soul. Her songs became generic McViesongs that were highly radiofriendly, and very recognizable CM- but totally lacks the blues and soul that I always loved in her songs. To each their own, but comparing ITM with her early work qualitywise is quite laughable in my book.

IMO Christine's voice has got better with age - like a fine wine, as have her songwriting skills

TITN is one of my favourite FM albums because her songs on it are so strong.

Little Lies, Everywhere and Isn't it Midnight are amongst her best ever work (IMO)

the fact that ITM was recorded in such a relaxed manner with her nephew Dan comes through very strongly. I love it to bits although I would have like a bit more of her sublime piano work on it

Gail

What you call fresh and committed, I call boring and generic. Each to their own I guess :shrug:

I still compare the quality of Little Lies to the quality of Achy Breaky Heart. Those songs drive me NUTS. Place Believe Me, Over&Over and Why against the ones you mentioned and I just can't believe you're stating that they are comparable qualitywise.

Believe me I am.

Gail

I'd call ITM sublime.

I think Chris herself would agree with that. She often said how embarrassed she was about her really early Christine Perfect songs & she's even said that she liked many of her Bob Welch era songs, but HATED her voice on those songs.

I totally agree. I LOVE the relaxed, laid back feel of ITM.

I would disagree with you, except I don't think you can compare "Why" to anything Chris or Fleetwood Mac ever did. It's that good.

Amen to that sister!

Gail

My enthusiasm the past few years has dwindled considerably. I've been a fan long enough (since '81). I think it's just a natural progression. To be honest, I'm not really big on any kind of music these days. To me, that's depressing. I don't even know what "movement" is going on now. Is rock dead? I'm from the old school (despite only being 37) and that era of 60's - early 80's is gone. I actually got energized with the grunge movement of the 90's and all the spinoff artists it produced. So, where the hell are we now? Maybe I've just heard as much as I need to?

Sorry to have gotten off topic. But I guess that relates to FM too. Maybe I've heard everything to death but I'll still listen to them. Thank God for bootlegs! I just don't get psyched at their tours anymore because they don't do much for me live anymore. I really did enjoy Lindsey's shows though. I never saw him live till last October and again last month (April). I actually met him after the show in Boulder and told him how much I appreciated him doing this type of cd and tour.

I know what you mean. I dont think I'll go and see them if they tour without a new album. I just don't think they'll be anything new to listen to.

They'll probably start with The Chain and do World Turning which is now well passed it's sell by date. If they shook it up a little I might go.

If Christine was there I'd definately go but that is so not going to happen. So if they tour the UK it would be first time since 1973 that I wouldn't have gone to at least one of their shows. :distress:

Gail

ITA with Carrie.

I still love listening to all the old stuff that I 've always loved.
I didn't care much for SYW, for instance (except for 3-4 songs) and maybe that's why I am not looking forward to new stuff.
I prefer listening to Tusk over and over than to be disappointed in a new release.

"Fleetwood Mac" as an actual entity has pretty much been dead to me since The Dance. One last cash in on Rumours nostalgia tour & video, then from 1998 on its just an aging Buckingham Nicks with a killer rhythm section.

Anyone remember how bad the Sonny & Cher Show was when they got back together after the divorce? That's about how I feel about Fleetwood Mac at this point.

omg, you're right! :shocked:

I don't think it's fair to compare an album-full of Christine songs vs. an FM album with just a few Christine songs scattered here and there. The fact is that Christine is not known to be terribly ambitious and experimental in her songwriting and performance style. One could also argue that she doesn't have the stylistic range of Stevie and Lindsey- she is basically a pop singer/songwriter with blues and R&B influences. And because of her relative lack of stylistic range, I think an entire album from her does tend to sound rather homogenic upon the first few listens. Admittedly, there is no WOW factor upon first blush because the allure of Christine's music really appears only after multiple listens, when you find yourself humming the hooks and melodies in your head long after the song is over. She's timeless, and ITM will sound as fresh ten years from now as it did a few years ago. By contrast, I am not sure how I would react to a Christine solo album full of samples, drum loops, synthesized strings and vocoder effects (like SYW).

But at the end of the day, for me it's all about that voice- sweet, husky, full, soothing, etc. She's not the most technically gifted singer, but her tone is one of the wonders of the world.

Well said! But you know what? I was wowed upon the first listen. I couldn't believe she had made the album I always wished she'd make: a mix of great pop tunes underpinned with R & B.

I am the first person to step up and say the 1984 self-titled solo album had its problems. There were, I feel, some problems with the production (too glossy), with about half of the songs (too generic) and with giving too much limelight to the band. Still, there was great music there. But with ITM, I think just about every song hits--and stays with me. It's a fine record.

You said it. NOONE sounds like her.

C'mon Christine...One more time PLEASE!

And, you know, I mentioned before that I was very fortunate to have met Lindsey in Boulder and chat with him for about 10 minutes. He was very cool and gracious even though he said he'd be back down to the bar after he called his wife! He also wasn't feeling well. Or, was it because my last comment to him was (tapping him on the arm), "Lindsey...Buckingham Nicks?" to which he shrugged and said, "well, i don't know...we'll see."

Anyway, I would kill to meet Christine in the same fashion and actually sit down and share a bottle of wine. I think she would just be "one of the guys" and would be a hoot!

excellent points i haven't considered

another instance where someone has rooted around in my brain and pulled out what i've not articulated myself, but which i realize i fully feel, too.

i like a lot of SYW, but in a, i don't know, more superficial way than i love the music on tusk or buckingham nicks. know what i mean? the music on SYW is fun, i love to sing along with it, i love some of the words, some of the sentiment... but it doesn't go deep. buckingham nicks is deep, deep inside me. much of tusk, too. i was thinking rumours, but i'm not so sure. i think i've just heard it far too much. and i think if they released another album, or if stevie did, i would like it on the surface, but it would not be an album that i'd take to a deserted island for the rest of time or that would hold meaning in my life. sadly, i think it's just how music has changed over the decades, i don't know. i feel old, but i just don't think they make music like they used to. fleetwood mac, stevie nicks, or any of the 60s/70s era musicians. yet, i will always love them.

wow. to me this is an excellent assessment of ITM. as a record, it personifies the best of who christine is as an artist, and i can’t look for anything inside of it aside from what i know and love about chris.

as far as fleetwood mac goes, i am 100% fine if i never hear another new thing from them again. at this point, they’ve amassed an amazing body of work that some groups can only dream of. i have many wonderful memories of my own life, underscored by their songs, and for that i am grateful. so if something new and fresh emerges from them in the coming years, great. if not, it’s still been a hell of a ride for me.

Maybe compared to what the Eagles have been doing. If you take it back even further, since 1995, Fleetwood Mac has only released two studio albums and a live album. Just going by the "Rumours" band, there have only been four solo albums of new material.

Compare that to another band I really like, Guided By Voices (who were lead by vocalist -and fellow Dayton native- Robert Pollard):

GUIDED BY VOICES
ALBUMS:
1995 - Alien Lanes
1996 - Under the Bushes, Under the Stars
1996 - Tonics and Twisted Chasers
1997 - Mag Earwhig!
1999 - Do the Collapse
2001 - Isolation Drills
2002 - Universal Truths and Cycles
2003 - Earthquake Glue
2004 - Half Smiles of the Decomposed

EPs (some were almost long enough to be LPs):
1995 - Tigerbomb
1996 - Sunfish Holy Breakfast
1996 - Plantations of Pale Pink
1997 - Wish in One Hand...
1999 - Plugs For The Program
2000 - Hold On Hope
2000 - Dayton, Ohio-19 Something and 5
2001 - Daredevil Stamp Collector: Do The Collapse B-sides
2002 - The Pipe Dreams Of Instant Prince Whippet

ROBERT POLLARD SOLO
1996 - Not in My Airforce
1998 - Waved Out
1999 - Kid Marine
1999 - Speak Kindly of Your Volunteer Fire Department (with Doug Gillard)
2001 - Choreographed Man of War (billed as "Robert Pollard and the Soft Rock Renegades")
2003 - Motel of Fools
2004 - Fiction Man
2005 - Music From "Bubble"
2005 - Zoom (EP)
2005 - Relaxation of the Asshole
2006 - From a Compound Eye
2006 - Normal Happiness
2006 - Moon (live EP)
2007 - Meet the King: Asshole 2
2007 - Silverfish Trivia
2007 - Standard Gargoyle Decisions

FADING CAPTAIN SERIES (Pollard's self-financed and released series that were released both under his own name, and a wide variety of pseudonyms.)
Acid Ranch:
2002 - Some Of The Magic Syrup Was Preserved
2005 - As Forever: A Manifesto Of Fractured Imagination And Wreckless Living

Airport 5:
2001 - Tower in the Fountain of Sparks
2002 - Life Starts Here

Circus Devils:
2001 - Ringworm Interiors
2002 - The Harold Pig Memorial
2003 - Pinball Mars
2005 - Five
2007 - Sgt. Disco

Go Back Snowball:
2002 - Calling Zero

Hazzard Hotrods:
2000 - Big Trouble (re-released as Bigger Trouble 2005)

Howling Wolf Orchestra:
2000 - Speedtraps for the Bee Kingdom

Keene Brothers:
2006 - Blues and Boogie Shoes

Lexo and the Leapers: (Robert Pollard backed by The Tasties)
1999 - Ask Them

Lifeguards
2003 - Mist King Urth

The Moping Swans
2005 - Lightninghead to Coffee Pot

Nightwalker (a GBV alias)
1999 - In Shop We Build Electric Chairs: Professional Music by Nightwalker 1984-1993

Phantom Tollbooth:
2003 - Beard of Lighting

Psycho and the Birds:
2006 - All That is Holy

The Takeovers:
2006 - Turn to Red


Note: Bob Pollard was born in 1957, so he not drastically younger than the people in Fleetwood Mac (and is actually older than Bekka).

Frankly, I'm bored to tears with it all. I'm really not a fan of the solo albums. I find I can only take so much of a particular singer's shtick.

Lindsey Buckingham: A few artsy-Lindsey songs go a long way (which is good, considering how often he releases material), but after a while, it comes off as self-absorbed, self-indulgent arrogance. The fact that he’s the guy who penned “Go Your Own Way” automatically eliminates him from being Joni Mitchell with a penis, so quit trying to shove that routine down our throats already!

Stevie Nicks: Okay, the ethereal thing was killer back in 1977, when we had “Star Wars” scenes airbrushed on our vans. And, much like those vans, it seems pretty pathetic 30 years later. Whenever I see a mystical song on a new Stevie Nicks album, it makes me appreciate Grace Slick’s decision to bow out gracefully (or at least until she went bat **** crazy, but that’s another discussion). Plus, Stevie’s limited vocal range and limited abilities as a songwriter (specifically in terms of chording) can make for an album that gets boring after about twenty minutes. In short, a twenty something space cadet is downright cute. A sixty something space cadet is utterly sad. A Bob Dylan with a vagina you are not, Miss Stevie!

Christine McVie: As much as I love her voice, her lyrics are trite and often laced in cliché. That tends to wear on me after a while, and bores me to tears.

This is why I think they were great together (at least until “Tusk”). There really wasn’t time to get bored with any particular member, and they were all bringing their best material to the band. They were very different, but the harmonies and Fleetwood-McVie rhythm section tied it all nicely together.


I could also write about the other members of Fleetwood Mac, but I’ll keep it to just the “Rumours” singer/songwriters. All I will say is that my favorite recent solo album is Jeremy Spencer’s. He sings classic Robert Johnson/Elmore James songs and then throws in songs with heavy political and religious messages. While I might not agree completely, I love how ballsy and honest that is. He didn’t care what anybody thought and did not play to a specific audience. He played the classics he loved AND spoke his mind, and that’s completely refreshing and certainly worthy of respect.

Still, as expressed by others, my enthusiasm has nose-dived in recent years, mainly because I’ve listened to everything so much that it’s really lost its point. The new stuff is okay, but lacks a lot of the spark that kept my interest going for so long. Oh, I'll see them when they come to town, but I'm not sure I'll make an effort to go on a road trip. I could have met Lindsey this past fall, but figured it was pointless. Plus, I’ve been following hockey pretty closely the last few years, which has taken a huge chunk out of my music time. When I do listen to music, I tend to go indie and/or alt.country (and, classic country, for that matter) these days.