An Official Fleetwood Mac Album Debate
 

It is in my opinion that No FM album come quite close to that of "Tusk"
It is possibly their greatest work. I dont think they have ever or will ever create an album to rival it.

I am interested to hear someone say fleetwood mac have a better album than Tusk.

You won't hear me saying that. So I guess I have nothing to add to this debate, since we agree. But I will say that I thought SYW was a great and surprising endeavor also. Tusk was surprising because it followed Rumours, it sort of had a 'hah, gotcha' feeling to it, just like Lindsey wanted it, but SYW came from a band who hadn't really done any new music together since 1987, and still managed to make a splendid album. So we shouldn't forget that one either, no matter how many people will argue that it was more of a Lindsey solo album mixed in with stuff from other band members. Both Tusk and TITN were like that, so that argument doesn't hold up anymore.

Btw, shouldn't this be in the Rumours folder?

Oh yeah can we move it.....
bummer !!

Tusk is the best album ever recorded by anyone.

This is totally the least most debatable topic ever. ever !!!!
Shakin up - you're right !

and thats concludes todays heated debate,
join us tomorrow folks for another thrilling topic.
take care of yourself and each other...thanks for watching jerry springer.

Quite possibly, though I wouldn't go that far. ;)

I don't really want to discuss this on the Rumours board, really. The people are all fine, it's just that there are so many.. and this stuff always turns into a Stevie-skew.

That being said, I will follow the other replies and say that Tusk is the best. I like everything on Tusk, except Sara, really. And there's nothing wrong with Sara.. I think it's beautiful. Poetic. I just get tired of it about 5 seconds in. Unfortunate that my favorite parts fall in the middle; I never make an effort to skip to the point where it starts getting good.

And I partially agree on SYW. Everybody sounds great together after all this time.. But the songs just aren't so great to me as most people generally talk them up to be. I understand that this will rub some people wrong, and I'm not trying to take away from anyone's enjoyment of the Mac's triumphant return, but. No. There are a few really great songs.. Thrown Down, Miranda, Peacekeeper, Smile At You, and EFO in particular. Solid, but.. it's kind of evident to me listening to the GLAAD version of Peacekeeper. That version is so much better than the SYW, and that's really unfortunate. Plus, it sucks live.

My other problems with SYW: WTWCT needs a little somethin' for Lindsey's voice. Illume makes me want to barf (not what it's about, but the actual song itself). Say You Will zzzzz what? huh? sorry, i dozed. That whole 10-year-long noodling solo at the end of BTLH, wtf, come on now. The overall sound of Stevie's voice on Destiny Rules, nasal, wobbly. And I'm not mentioning the fact that Silver Girl is the single worst FM song ever, and to drop right after a bomb like RTTG? WTF-ingF? There's your track order problem. It's like, "whoa, hey, where did this stevie song come from? she's really got it back! And Lindsey just blistered that ending!" And then "what is this crap?" "~*it's not crap*~".

Really, SYW is just not up to Tusk. IMO, production-wise, the idea was there. The songs just aren't. And honestly, I think Stevie needs to pick it up. The SYW songs just weren't there. Sweet Girl on the Dance was so good.. you'd think there would be more songs from around the same time. I guess TD, RTTG, and EFO are all we're gonna get.

I don't know what album I would rank 2nd. If it counts, maybe Live. But that's Tusk tour, sooo. Tusk it is. There isn't one better. And without Christine, there probably won't be, no matter how much slack lindsey picks up.

Flame away if you must, but that's how I feel about it and you can't change my mind.

Tusk is truly a masterpiece.

Tusk is a masterwork... plain and simply, superb.:nod:

Crap, my sigpic isn't working.

For the "five" era -

I think Rumors is their best record. I love all the song on it and they were all just so great.

Tusk is a cool record, but they sound like less of a band on it.

I LOVE Mirage for Stevie's and CM's songs.

TITN was cool in that 80's glossy way and SYW was just okay with me.

I actually like "Rumours", "Tusk" and "The Dance" all about the same....for different reasons...but about the same level of enjoyment all around.

I agree!

I think SYW is great but I do kinda agree. In many ways it feels like two solo albums stuck together, there's no real flow. It was originally intended as a double album and I often wonder if it would have worked better than way.
I do love it though, and yeah, I agree they should have chosen a different song to Peacekeeper to perform on the SYW tour for sure.

I am still totally convinced that it would have worked better as a doublepackage. It was Lindsey's intention all the way, and he had to abort the vision he had from the beginning of the project. NEVER again crossfade the vision of genius.:mad:

I agree on that. I do think it would have been even better as a double album, it would've at least left more room. It all seems squished together now. However, that doesn't take away that I think it's still a great album. Maybe because I usually don't listen to the album in order, I just put it on 'shuffle'. The only really, really bad track on it is Silver Girl. Peacekeeper might sound dull live, that doesn't have anything to do with the album itself. And as I mentioned once before, the argument that it sounds like two solo albums thrown together doesn't hold up either. For one, listening to Thrown Down WOS and then to the SYW version, there's a world of difference. Lindsey made Stevie's songs to fit his own ones. Secondly, you could say that about Tusk and TITN also, both Lindsey albums with a flavor of the other members thrown in. And they are ALL great ones.

Well, I'm sorry Vanessa, but I think TITN is their worst album. I really don't like it as a whole although I was friggin' dancing when it came out. In hindsight, it's a very poor album compared to SYW. I agree on the fact that the solo-album argument doesn't hold. I've never listened to the album that way. I just can't flush away the idea that it is an aborted double album. I tend to hear/feel that when I listen to it in it's full length. There's a friction somewhere.

I love TITN, although it's a very, very dated album. There are more stinkers on there than SYW and Tusk (heck, Tusk has NO stinkers), but overall I still love it. Then again, I am one of the few that really loves When I See You Again also. I guess I'm weird? ;)

I think Tusk has some stinkers - namingly The Ledge. But, to each their own AND I liske "When I See You Again" as well, though I think the "baby" fest ruins the song.

I disagree. :D

Bottom line, Lindsey does what he wants to do. SYW is my favorite...followed by a tie: Rumours and Tusk.

That's bull:D .

He definately took his loss in the double-album case. You cannot state that it was his own idea or what he wanted to do. He wanted a double-album. There's no discussion possible. Or do you think it was a total set-up to make a main topic for Destiny rules?:eek:

You're not weird!! I like that song too, but Stevie's voice is a little shaky in some sections...I mainly love the part where Linds is singing at the end with that beautiful little guitar thing as the song fades off.:)

Ultimately it was Lindsey's idea to release it as a single album. In the documentary he states that in order for them to release it as a double-album and for him to not lose a "f*** of a lot of money" in the process, the band would have had to tour for at least two years, record another album and then tour again. So he decided that the risk of things falling through, and the band not continuing to tour past the initial 40 dates, was too great to take.

It may not have been what he originally conceived for the album, but it was his decision to not release a double.

I think the smartest thing would have been to first release a more radio-friendly, "classic Fleetwood Mac" sounding album ("Thrown Down," "Bleed To Love Her," etc.) with about 13 tracks and tour to support it. Then take a few months off the road, release a second, edgier batch of 13 songs ("Murrow," "Illume," etc.), and then go out on the road again.
Fans would have had two Mac albums in the span of a year, the rest of FM and the record company would have had their more commercially viable album, and Lindsey would have had his "envelope-pushing" album.

Of course it was not only HIS decision. It was HIS decision in the end, yes, but the pressure was laid on him by the rest of the band and their managers. In the end it was his decision, yes.:rolleyes:

But The idea of the two albums is interesting. On the other hand, Lindsey always tries to mix radiofriendlyness with off-mainstreamtracks in the FM-setting, as we all know. So I don't think he'd ever choose such a strategy.

Well, Fleetwood Mac IS a BAND...it's not "Lindsey Buckingham" under a pseudonym. I think Lindsey himself forgets that fact sometimes.

That is an extremely good point that I think we Lindsey fans always loose sight of. I forget exactly how it all went down in Destiny Rules, but if nobody else in the band wants a double album or whatever else, then there is no reason why it should happen. Still, screw the label.

Very true, But he has always compromised but fought for his part until the end. His opinion stands alone in many cases, so he goes for the maximum. And I don't think he forgets that fact, Chili: his repetative speaches underline what you said: that FM IS a band, and he knows is more of a political situation. And hearing the Backingvocals, arrangements and very tasteful guitarwork on the songs of the girls speak enough Bandcommitment to my ears.

True, he SAYS those things, but that doesn't mean he LIKES the situation. As far back as Rumours (maybe even before that), Mick kept confronting Lindsey about it BEING a band and that he wasn't always going to get "his way".

Yes, it is a stubborn and fulforce goalgetter. But doesn't every team get better by one? Especially if he IS playing together a lot.

No.

(example: Kobe Bryant & the Los Angeles Lakers)

By that point, the rest of the band had agreed to a double album. Stevie basically said in the doc that she wasn't wild about the idea, but that they all wanted Lindsey to be happy (giving the baby his bottle, perhaps? ;) ).

So, by that point, I don't think there was any pressure from the rest of the band to release a single album. They had worked out the financial logistics and it appeared to be full-steam ahead.

You left out a crucial part of my quote. That makes the example irrelevant. You can't say Lindsey's JUST a goalgetter with onely himself in mind. Listen to the music. This has to be a teamplayer too.

Come on Johnny. The guy stepped in the whole project with the double album in mind. He fought it and lost, because he had to "eat" a big share of his money. The others agreed only on it those terms, I'm sure. In the end he got to the point that that would be a little too much. Not very strong, I know.

We get it - Gerald will defend Lindsey to the death and Mr. Stew will soil Lindsey's name to the death. He doesn't need to be a god or a bastard. Can't he just be an okay guy?

I don't happen to think he's the completely selfless, "money means nothing -- it's all about the art" guy that others seem to think he is... but I don't see how I've "soiled" his name in any way, shape or form.

I'll only defend him against people who think he's a bastard or "just an okay guy", which I'm sure he'll even hate more than people who soil him.:laugh:

Come on, little nicky, I don't think the guy is flawless. I hate TITN for instance. But people like Stew and Strand can push me to the limits, because they always come up with Nicks-comparisons. That's working like a red cloth before a bull on me. And the fact that any discussion about his art is tresspassed by them with arguments concerning his marketingchoices. I can't stand that.

Tusk can be...
 

"the best album by anyone", depending on what musical mood I am currently in.

well, the first two Masters of Reality-album ranked high for me too, as did a Buffalo Tom and Screaming Trees-album, but still, Tusk survived all new musical discoveries I did in the last three decades. It still is a remarkable piece of art. And I fully underline the fact that it's been tagged lately as a indie-rock-album avant-la-lettre.

I am going to be shot for this:

I think that Tusk is only worth it for the following songs:

Sara
Angel
Sisters of The Moon
Beautiful Child
Tusk
Never Forget
Think About Me
The Ledge
That's Enough For Me

As albums, I prefer the White Album, Rumours AND Mirage. Tango In The Night, although has some knock outs, was pretty dull. I don't like what was happening to the band on this album and I think it is really clear that they were falling apart on TITN. Say You Will is brilliant IMO - better than Tusk. Would've been better if Christine was present but there ya go.

In terms of significance, I don't think we would have a Fleetwood Mac today if it wasn't for Tusk. I think if Tusk had been just a Rumours 2 then they would've called it quits after Mirage. It is the most significant album in anyone's career - EVER! Bella Donna is the greatest album ever recorded, closely followed by Rumours.

Then we're even. For me, Bella Donna has about three pretty great songs, and the rest are just god awful, useless tracks. To a lesser extent, same with Rumours.

I think Strand and I only disagree with the assertion that, for Lindsey, it's ALL about the art.

And any Nicks/Buckingham comparisons... at least where I'm concerned, as I can't speak for Strand... are only made for the sake of debate. Notice that I never compare their music -- only their business choices.