Was TITN a surprise?
 

This question is mainly for longtime fans - I was 12 when it came out, and I clearly remember 7 Wonders, Little Lies & Big Love being very big hits. But at the time, I didn't know exactly who Mac was, and couldn't connect the dots. I just thought they were a good band with some awesome hit songs, but I didn't realize they had done Gypsy & GYOW.

So, was the success of TITN a bit unexpected? It had been 5 years since Mirage and I assume the Mac wasn't all that popular anymore, or at least not at the forefront of the public's consciousness. So, when you heard it was coming out, were you nervous that it wouldn't do well? Excited? What about upon its release - did you love it or did it take time to grow on you? When it became a hit, with videos all over MTV, were you shocked?

I was surprised that they did another album with the same 5 people, yeah. I figured after that long that somebody wouldn't come back...so, that made Lindsey's departure NOT all that much of a surprise (well, a little bit of one. He did the album, so I kind of expected he'd tour, too)...I was actually MORE surprised that Stevie Nicks came back (read on).

I liked Lindsey's tunes, right away...I liked Christine's tunes on first listen...I thought Stevie's tunes were horrid..."Seven Wonders" kind of grew on me a bit, but the other two? {insert sound of projectile vomiting here}. I really though after hearing them and how much I liked 1/2 of Rock A Little that Stevie was starting to bring her B-material to Fleetwood Mac and saving the good songs for her own career (that thought was quickly shattered once I heard OSOTM...she'd just lost it altogether) and I thought "Why did she even bother rejoining the band for this album?".

I think the strength of the album sales was mainly due to the greatness of their live show during that subsequent tour. (with the added help of the MTV videos...it was still a fairly new medium then...when MTV was still "MTV" if you know what I mean.)

I was 20 or so when it came out. I remember being excitred for it and then being let down a little because the songs were perhaps too sleek and La Nicks' work was bad, with the exception of Seven Wonders. TITN also marked the first huge change I noted in her voice - it was lower and flat in places, esp. live.

But, I grew to like TITN.

I think I was sortof was moving on from them at that point... I don't recall even seriously following them or hearing about the album before it's release - so I definately wasn't counting the days. I remember the constant radio and video play of the tracks... and I remember when I bought it thinking that Stevie's hardly heard anywhere on it except mainly the tracks she sang on. I liked the album at the time, thought it sounded great and went with the times - still like Little Lies and 7 Wonders and a couple of other tracks...

Madonna was the biggest name in the business. She was everywhere. Fleetwood Mac was still a pretty big name, though--it was kind of like the status they had in 1997/1998: not the hippest kid on the block by a long shot but still a big name as an 'elder statesman' band, & still impressive commercially (probably thanks to Stevie).

Yeah, I was really excited. I went to that big splashy benefit at the sports arena in the late summer 1986, where Lindsey performed & said that the band was finishing up its best album ever, so we were pretty excited. We were definitely waiting for it, month by month.

A few weeks before the album came out, the radio started playing Big Love, & I really liked that one. Even the L.A. Times loved that one, calling it one of the best singles so far that year. About a week before the album was released, Jim Ladd (surprise surprise) played the whole album on KMET or KLOS or wherever he was at that point, & I listened to the broadcast & taped it, & I remember just loving the sound of all the songs as they unfolded one after another. I remember thinking the whole pentatonic thing going through so much of it & the crystal clarity of it all were just about the most beautiful thing I had ever heard from Fleetwood Mac. I had a Sony Walkman then & I remember thinking that I was going to be listening to THIS for a long time.

Yes that was a little weird. Little Lies, especially...pop-rock radio in Los Angeles just kept playing it & playing it, twelve times a day every day. People at class in college were humming it & you walked into a store or a mall & there it was. It was slightly weird to me. It wasn't like Rumours because the band themselves weren't hip that way anymore, but all this airplay was bizarre. It was like these songs--Little Lies, Seven Wonders, Everywhere--just got stuck in people's brains & they couldn't get rid of them even though they didn't really love them. The songs were so hook-filled & that's what effective hooks do: they insinuate themselves in somebody's brain even when that person doesn't want it to happen. Have you ever started humming a song that you didn't even like? That's because of the damn hook, & that's what Tango had.

I remember getting it and thinking back I had the same feeling that I had with Say You Will in that I had to listen to it several times to wrap myself around it. A good album for sure.

Yeah- I remember it was alllllll over Mtv back then. It was only five years after Mirage, though- and Stevie had released two solos in between, with Lindsey and Christine each releasing one. I think the general public and, especially, the fans were really revved up to receiving it. I remember I bought it on vinyl the day it was released and went home and played and it and was :shrug: . I had to warm up to it over time- on first listen I was completely WTF?? on "When I See You Again".

I remember sitting around in front of the tee-vee waiting for the official first airing of "Big Love". I thought it was odd that Stevie was even in the performing parts of the video since she's not even on the song. If I was a member of the band who didn't perform on a track I certainly wouldn't just lip-sync as if I my voice as was there. How embarrassing. But, they wanted to present a united front, blah, blah, blah. At the time, I thought "Seven Wonders" should have been the first single.

Now the whole album is pretty much blah for me. It's extremely dated. "Isn't It Midnight" and "Tango in the Night" are pretty much the only songs that really hold up after nineteen years. They should have done "Tango" instead of "I'm So Afraid" on the SYW tour :nod: . Would've been a much better choice.

Agree in principle. Actually, they should've done "Tango" on The Dance tour in place of "I'm So Afraid"...then done "Murrow" on the SYW tour.

Towie -

I think many people thought the love grunts on Big Love had La Nicks in them. I certainly did.

Maybe So Afraid was good for the Reunion tour and the Dance, but the latest tours, they should have included Tango in the Night, I agree.

Now, the album was kind of suprise to me. In a decade full of Duran Durans, Culture Clubs and Thompson Twins, and no news of the band since 1982, TITN was a glad surprise to me.

Of course there was no internet at that time, and news were not so many in Peru ad in the States, about music industry. In 1997 I knew about the Dance and the reunion weeks before the show, and it was a huge surprise to me..

I like TITN, I like it very much, though it was the Stevie's weakest collaboration. But I like it far more than Mirage, as a whole album. Unfortunately then I knew the tour wouldn't be with Lindsey, so I thought it was the end of the band, as I knew it.

Wow interesting, this entire thread is phenomenal, just realizing the thoughts about quite possibly my favorite FM album at the time (about 6 months before I was born!)

I eagerly awaited the Tango album with great excitement. It had been so long since their last album. Big Love started getting a lot of airplay right off the bat. As different as it was, I was happy to see Lindsey have another hit single (since there weren't any from him on the Mirage album (although Oh Diane and Can't Go Back were issued as foreign singles).

Overall I like the album, although Mirage, by a slim margin, seems more cohesive to me. I really liked Seven Wonders immediately, but over time, the crappy verse lyrics have sort of spoiled it. And, am I the only one who actually likes Welcome to the Room Sara? Yes, it's a very odd song, and that's why I like it....because it features the background voices of both Christine and Lindsey, and it addresses her stint at Betty Ford in a way that only Stevie could conjure up.

Didn't Stevie submit other songs for consideration? For example, Juliet and What Has Rock and Roll Ever Done For You? When I See You Again could have been a new Landslide-like song...but she so missed the mark on that one, lyrically and vocally. In fact, her voice sounded very shrill during that period, and I think the production only enhanced it.

I was in the summer before going off to college when Tango came out. I was already a big fan of Stevie Nicks but up until this point never really had made the distinction between Fleetwood Mac and Stevie as a solo performer. On a mix tape Gypsy sat alongside Stand Back and I just knew they were the same person singing. So when Tango came out I finally got that Stevie was a part of Fleetwood Mac. I went totally nuts for Seven Wonders. It was my favorite song that summer. Then I remember hearing the remix of Big Love on the radio and totally falling in love with it, but when they would play the single version I couldn't figure out why they cut Stevie's part. Once I got the album I realized it was just a special feature of the remix.

I enjoyed the whole album. Welcome to the Room Sara made no sense to me until years later when I found out it was about her time in rehab and it became much darker to me. Same thing had happened with Gypsy, a flightly song about mystical gypsies and lost loves became a very somber story of a dying friend. I still get emotional when I hear it.

That album was the one I listened to most during my freshman year at college. It was because of it that I went out and got all the other FM CDs (well, all the ones from that line-up anyway). I saw the tango tour and had no idea Lindsay wasn't going to be there until the night of the show and I was really crushed. It was still a very enjoyable show. I remember Stevie catching a frisbee thrown by a fan during Don't Stop and throwing it back into the audience.

I'm a huge fan of remixes, and the Seven Wonders and Big Love remixes had constant play in my dorm room and my walkman. I listened to the Little Lies remix a lot but really didn't like it very much. By the time Family Man came out I was losing interest and getting really wrapped up in Tusk, which is my favorite FM album.

It's an interesting ? to ask cause I think age has a lot to do with this.

What I mean to say is...older fans who were around for the Rumours heyday (maybe even Tusk) would be a tad more "eh" about the release of TITN vs. those coming of age in the video era...getting acquainted w/ the Mac and it's solo member efforts via MTV.
Those of us not at all of age to recall ANY album release but being aware of TITN, it's gonna have a different effect. Am I making sense w/out offending people? ;)
I was maybe 16 I'd say...and had no idea of it coming out. I can't recall a build up to the album, but I was WAY into them by then and definately all over the possibility of FINALLY getting to see my 1st concert...add to it that it was for this album. BL & 7W were ALL over the tv, in rotation w/ Gypsy & Stand Back...to help those of us that hadn't "connected the dots." (Of which I had only done when Mirage came out.) I was swamped in jr. high w/ the "your not cool unless you are into WHAM & Madonna etc." Being in the know was just not happening for me, so it just sorta came out. I made more effort to know about these things in advance from OSOTM on. I don't think that TITN was an accomplishment in my book at the time, cause I was just grateful for more music. Prolly only by this time had I finally acquired all FM/solo efforts I could get my hands on, and was oblivious to the back catalog of guest efforts and music soundtracks. At the time I thought it was all great, but ofcourse w/ years of listening to it, I have my opinions. I still think it is a great album. Dated to be sure. One of the few Mac albums that just screams it's era. Stevie's WTTRS took FOREVER to grow on me, but I like all of Chris & LB's stuff. I would never have thought to think "hmmm, this stuff sounds like Stevie's leftovers from a solo album." But today I'd have to agree 10fold. LB's tunes sound like he's still trapped in the Kleenex boxes he used for Tusk, but can't quite break out. Chris...well Chris always writes poppy tunes.
In retrospect, it was a cool year. Saw them for that tour, and just became more hardcore. Still break out TITN once in a while for a listen, and enjoy it for a time...but then put it away again.

*in my best Miranda Priestley voice*

When I See You Again is amazing. that's all.

I was only 6 or 7 when TITN came out so I can't really add anything else to this conversation, but I had to add my $.02

For me, every time I bought a new SN or FM album when it was released was an EVENT that had its own timespace :p - I remember the place I bought it, how much it cost, and most of all, the sense of anticipation of getting to the car, ripping it open and looking at the inner sleeve/booklet for pictures and lyrics. TITN was no exception (CD, Kemp Mill Records, Greenbelt, MD $14.99).

I remember that my biggest anticipation was to see whether Stevie's voice had changed. Some months earlier I saw my first Stevie concert, the RAL tour, and I was sorely disappointed- her voice was off-key and hoarse. As it turned out, TITN confirmed my fears, especially WISYA. And I was also really bummed that Stevie was barely on the album. And although I loved the cover art work, there really weren't any decent band shots in the CD booklet! Grrr...

Musically I wasn't all that shocked- it seemed like the next logical step after the very poppy "Mirage." And "Stand Back" and the RAL album had already paved the way for a very 80's contemporary, synth-driven sound. But the one thing I absolutely deplored (in addition to WISYA) is "You and I Part II." Gawd, that song was cheesy then as it is today. It reminded me so much of "Copa Cabana" and it was definitely a song that I didn't want blaring out of my car speakers.

In a nutshell I thought it was an okay effort, but even for its time I thought it sounded cold and mechanical. Oh, and Stevie's songs were by-and-large ass.

I wasn't around at the time it was released but I can imagine that what people are saying about it being popular because it had that "hook" was true ~ even though I think it has much more going for it than just that.

And I would kill or die to see TITN done live. Pretty please, Lindsey?! :thumbsup:

That's funny. Not ha-ha funny, but co-incidence funny. I believe Lindsey (or maybe it was Mick) said once that the music for Tango in the Night (the song) was born out of some of Lindsey's live performances of I'm So Afraid. I can't remember where I heard that though - maybe it was in Mick's book?

so did i.
tango in the night was the beginning of fleetwood mac to me,after a couple of turns.
the first time they were about to play big love on mtv(was it mtv at the time?)the vj said:listen to those aaahhs,they´re stevie nicks.
this couldn´t have been my first time hearing FM,because i knew that reference meant that stevie hadn´t left the band,as it was rumoured at the time.
following year i changed a job and met a couple of guys who introduced me to peter green period fleetwood mac.
this brought back my interest in tango in the night and at the time everywhere was playing a lot,so i bought it,but didn´t like it very much,so when one of the guys from work wanted to buy it,i sold it to him.
for years i only listened to peter green period FM,but when behind the mask came,little lies was played several times and i decided to buy it again in -91 and from there i started to buy other rumours line up albums(and bare trees)

I just learned to drive when Tango was released. I'd been a die-hard Mac fan since I was twelve and was anxious for this long-awaited LP. I was, on first listen, disappointed. Lindsey and Christine's songs were strong--this I could easily see; but the production was too cold, too slick and, to my way of thinking, derivative of so much synth pop of the time. I remember being annoyed with the way Christine's excellent voice was manipulated a bit in the stuido to sound more sugary than seductive, more breathy than smooth.

Stevie's songs were an all-out disaster. Seven Wonders was good--as many have already noted, but it wasn't hers. The "additional lyrics" credit she gave herself was embarassing, as if she were trying to claim some right to her only solid contribution. As ChilD had noted, Rock a Little was quite a good record. At least half of the songs were hot. So why the sudden drop in writing and performance?

I eventually warmed up to the record. I realized some of my criticisms (where Chris and Lindsey were concerned) were the result of my holding them to a standard that,, by then, was a decade old. There was no GYOW on Tango, but all of Lindsey's songs were meaty contributions. And, as an immediate fan of "Litttle Lies," I soon realized Chris struck gold. Her live performance of "Isn't It Midnight" was even better than the studio one.

Poor Stevie. No amount of spin could save her two songs, which sound inserted, inorganic to the proceedings. I was pleasantly surprised to see she returned to top form on Behind the Mask.

At the risk of being flamed here, I have come to believe after many years, this may have been one biggest times when Lindsey "had the urge not to want to help her...." Lindsey himself said there were many years of unresolved feelings between him and Stevie since they broke up 10 years before then, and that when he quit FM after Tango was released, it kind of put some closure on that.

Plus, Stevie had 3 very successful solo albums at that point, Lindsey was not enjoying that much commercial success... I could see how he wouldn't run to her aid in making this record out of jealousy or competitiveness or whatever. I think he was also resentful that she didn't spend much time in the studio for this album, he's made several snide comments about it in interviews over the years.

Just my opinion. :)

LB made snide comments about one of his bandmates... that's impossible!!

Why would you be flamed for saying this? I think your observations are accurate. They don't change the facts of the quality of the music, but they certainly put some of it in context.

I don't think that assessment is inaccurate either. LB not wanting to help Stevie (or deal with her **** anymore) is probably a huge reason why her songs weren't up to par. Of course, I must throw in my disclaimer that I actually LOVE 7W, and I do like WISYA & WTTRS a lot- BUT I understand that these songs are nowhere near her best work.

Another possibility in my mind is that Stevie had exhausted a lot of her best material on the 2 albums she released between Mirage & TITN. For a while there, it was every other for Stevie (Mac album '79, solo '81, Mac '82, solo '83.) So then was she waiting for Mac to restart & it didn't happen? Did she say "well screw them, I'm tired of waiting for LB to figure out what he wants to do, I'll put these songs out on my own album instead."

I mean, what was the band doing those 5 years? I know, solo projects & such, but 5 YEARS?!?! Can I assume that LB was the one holding out/stalling? Did he want to leave the band after Mirage, but said "f*ck it" & did one more album for the hell of it? For the money? To shut Mick up? Any clue? :shrug:

One VERY GOOD point of contention of my idea that Stevie & Lindsey should've just bid adieu to Fleetwood Mac at the end of the Tusk tour. Fleetwood Mac could've carried on with new people and put out an album every (or every other) year. Buckingham & Nicks screwed us FLEETWOOD MAC fans out of at least 3 albums by not being focus solely on the band.

ahhhh yes... the disadvantages of being a star...:rolleyes:

That is a little unfair IMO because:

1. CM released a solo record

2. Mick did two I believe

and

3. None of them really seemed to be too interested in FM at the time, though during Stevie's RAL tour they apparently went back in the studio and she worked with them from the road.

So, IMO it was more than just LB and SN's solo stuff. I also think La Nicks' loyalty to a group she really did not need at the time and who really in many ways did not want her around was outstanding. Who among us would stay in that kind of work environment?

Firstly, I'm pretty sure that Mick's were only done during FM downtime(edit below).
And Chris's- wasn't it 1984? FM was in the middle of FIVE YEARS OF NOTHING! Try saying the same about the timing of Bella Donna, The Wild Heart, or Law and Order!
Okay, The Visitor was during this time, BUT, it's not like it was some all time-encompassing effort, requiring Mick two years to finish.

Yeah, unfair to both Fleetwood Mac as a band and FMac's fans.

1) CM released her solo album ONLY BECAUSE there wasn't an active Fleetwood Mac at the time. Had Fleetwood Mac been an active entity, those songs would've been Fleetwood Mac songs, Christine wouldn't have released a solo album. (unlike Lindsey & Stevie, who PLANNED solo careers)

2) pretty much ditto for Mick...although his albums came as a result of playing live (the trip to Africa...then the Zoo started out as a "live only" band...the album was an afterthought)

3) My point. Stevie's RAL tour was placed at a higher priority than the Fleetwood Mac recording project. Which set up a situation of Stevie trying to do too much which affected the quality of both her solo career AND her work with Fleetwood Mac.

I think the point was that La Nicks and LB's solo stuff detracted from FM's ability to put out more records. I think that can be said for CM and Mick's efforts as well.

I mean Stevie's BD was relatively quickly produced and the tour was very very short.

In the end, I do not blame La Nicks one bit for moving forward with her work and essentially dropping her work and running to FM when they called - and this was also when she was in personal crisis. So, I think it is unfair to assert that her solo career in any way effected FM's ability to produce records. I actually think her very successful solo career enhanced that ability.

I think Stevie did RAL because FM could not make up their minds. And - she did everything she could to conbtribute to TITN once FM went ahead. I mean CM's solo effort was produced in relatively the same time period as much of RAL and CM toured to support it :shrug: So, I think some "fault" must be given to her as well.

Personally, I think and will always think LB was the cause of the five year gap and it had little to do with his solo career as much as his internal demons with the band and la Nicks.

Sure, sure, I get the picture...in your eyes, La Nicks is blameless. No sense in going up against that brick wall any further.

LOL - I am not saying that and you know it!!!!

I am just saying people seemingly want to portray her as the be all and end all of the reason the Mac did nothing from 1982 to 1987. I am just nothing that four of the five did solo stuff and that solo stuff took away from time that could have been spent on Mac efforts.

As for La Nicks - again, I am unsure I would have been as loyal as she was esp. considering they really treated her poorly or at least with condescending tones a la the un released Tusk doc. footage.

But, yes, La Nicks efforts did take away from time when FM could have been doing somthing. I am just saying she was not alone in taking time for herself.

And, I wasn't laying 100% blame on her...just 50%. Lindsey gets the other half. The only reason Mick & Christine even dabbled in "solo" careers was out of necessity of musical expression rather than a "grand scheme". I'd say only Mick's The Visitor project was the only real planned project he had...the I'm Not Me album was done out of "waiting" for the band. Which also must've been really frustrating, since Lindsey participated in both Mick's & Christine's solo albums at the time. If he had the time for THAT, why didn't they just do Fleetwood Mac album? :shrug:

I do not know the answer to that. Personally, I think LB always wanted to stay in the Mac, but also wanted that "I am too cool for the mainstream" aura he likes so much, esp. at that time. I think La Nicks just got fed up asking "are we ready yet?" and set sail without the band. I think CM to some extent did the same thing with her solo venture.

I do not get the sense that LB ever thought that way. Indeed, his alleged solo work became TITN. So, he seems to always come back to them when he is ready.

What a complex group of people indeed.

That's a very interesting point -- it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Is there something in there about the quality of Stevie's work from TITN and TOSOTM? I know a lot of people really don't like that album for the same sorts of reasons they dislike her work on TITN -- production wise, lack of imagination etc.
So if Lindsey had nothing to do with OSOTM and yet the same sort of thing happened on both records, is it possible that Stevie had a lot to do with it herself?

I love them both, I'm just wondering.

I don't think any of the 1981 projects (Law & Order, Bella Donna, The Visitor) interfered with Fleetwood Mac. After the Tusk tour, the entire band agreed to take time off, so three of the members did their own albums.

But all the solo stuff began to be a problem in later years. It was probably a vicious cycle: The less Fleetwood Mac did, the more the members did solo stuff; & the more the members did solo stuff, the less Fleetwood Mac did. Stevie's combination of albums & touring took the most time, but then again the band needed her in the studio the least for a Fleetwood Mac project. That, too, was probably a self-perpetuating cycle.

Certainly by 1985 or so, the band was unwilling to rouse itself. Finally starting work on a new album the following year was a good sign on the outside, but I don't think it compensated for the fact that several members of the band probably wished they weren't involved.

I think he wanted to get out in the mid 1980s, but didn't want to brave the emotional pain of leaving a band (& leaving a band is emotionally painful, make no mistake about it).

I do too - I also think he knew that if he stayed in he could be around Stevie. After all, there are many many stories of the antics of those two on the Mirage tour that indicate they were more than friends.

Shipper! Shipper! Shipper!!!!!!!!!!:mad:











:lol: