Christine's absense
 

I thought this would be an interesting companion thread to the what if Stevie left one. I know alot of people here have their preferences as to which band members are their favorites and what not, but here's my take on the whole Christine not participating in SYW thing. I've always come at it from the angle that Fleetwood Mac is a great COLLECTION of talent, and to me they proved it even more so during the making of SYW and then the tour. Losing a valuable member such as Christine who had devoted almost 30 years of her life to Fleetwood Mac might have killed most bands. But for Mick, Lindsey, Stevie, and John to do what they did, at their ages, to me is much more a compliment to their talents and wanting Fleetwood Mac to continue than any kind of bad reflection on Christine. I was lucky enough to be able to see 35 SYW shows, and the most amazing thing to me that to this day I havent forgotten is how EVERY single night I never left a show thinking they didn't give their best effort. I was so proud that this band that I'd listened to for 30 years could still do it. Were they as good as they were in the 70's? Maybe not, but let's remember, they are all in their 50's now and in the case of John, 60. Would I have preferred Chris to be there on SYW? of course, but they moved on very well without her, a true testament to their talents.

I miss Christine on SYW, the album, I think it's a much darker album than any of the others, very few songs with happy messages in them (if _any_). But it is amazing that they can be so good having lost the third singer/songwriter, and in any situation, lots of Stevie/Lindsey can't be a _bad_ thing!! :nod:

I agree that Say You Will is, for the most part, a pretty great album, especially for a band that has been around for so many years, and who were recording without a key member for the first time in over three decades.

I'm sure you know well by now that I disagree with you somewhat on the tour. I don't doubt that they gave their best every night within the confines of the program they prescribed for themselves, but I think that program itself is more or less a disgrace, considering all of the things they so easily could do.

Yes, I think the setlist issue is one you make a good point on, but as for the performance factor, believe me, they gave it their all. BUt I appriciate the angle you take too.

I can't reply to threads with misspellings in the title.

Dammit I thought about that. WHat an idiot,. ABSENCE. SOrry my bad:sorry:

hahahahahahahaha!
Here's a little friend I use from time to time: dictionary.com

i think say you will is a good album, but to me theres no way it compares to any of the earlier ones with chris in them, - time doesnt count, although i like chris' time songs, they did a fantastic job with what they could, but its just not fleetwood mac, like time wasnt, and even behind the mask wasnt quite there, its buckingham nicks with mick and john, christine was perfect to tie it all together, but still a good album.

I think it would be a good idea for me to make use of that in the future.:)

Mr. MacDougall and ChiliD, I believe that's your cue...

I really enjoyed Say You Will. I really thought "The Dance" was the end. It's a major bummer that Christine isn't around. She balances out the extremes of Lindsey and Stevie's songs, as well as onstage. I *wish* Christine was still in the band...I like her songs, her voice..She adds something to the group much like all the other players.

IF I was a casual Fleetwood Mac listener...I probably would have been turned off by Say You Will. We're all biased since we like the Mac, but looking from the outside in I think most of you would agree with that.

As far as the tour goes...they DID rock. I saw them on 3 or 4 shows and each time was fantastic.

I also must say that I never got a chance to see Fleetwood Mac in the 70's in their heyday because I was simply too young. I have seen many videos and stuff like that, but no way does that compare to being there in person. If I could change one thing, I would go back and have made my mother let me go to the Tusk tour shows at Met Center in Minneapolis May 9&10, 1980. I still remember begging her as a 9 year old to go, but she wouldnt let me.:(

AhEM! :mad: (nearly 12 years and counting...it still doesn't sink in with some people)

What's the cover say on the Time album? Oh yeah, "FLEETWOOD MAC"...it counts. Always has, always will. It's as legitimate a Fleetwood Mac album as any other with the Fleetwood Mac name on it (and that includes Behind The Mask as well)

Ok, MacDougall, your turn.

Regarding Christine's absense (absence, or absinthe)...whatever...she didn't want to be involved, she wasn't, that's how Fleetwood Mac was for that album. With Fleetwood Mac, you just never know what the lineup of the next album is going to be...that's the legend of the band. Some people just won't let go of the fact that the Rumours lineup was a friggin' ANOMALY in the history of Fleetwood Mac. That they released six consecutive albums with the same lineup won't ever happen again.

I do like a few songs from Time. Nights In Estoril, These Strange Times, and Hollywood I do enjoy.

EXACTLY!



I really enjoyed SYW, even without Christine. I did not however go to any shows because I have no interest in seeing this band live...because they just really don't have anything to offer me without Christine...and the fact that I could pretty much guess their set list, having never seen a FM show in my life :rolleyes:

So for me FM is essentially over. I think they can still produce some great studio material (even though it's Buckingham Nicks more than FM) but as far as a live act...I feel that they are washed up!


*note* They are free to continue to tour if they wish, but they must NOT ever use a Christine McVie song...EVER! So please stop mutilating "Don't Stop" Stevie!

How can you say it's mutilated if you've never seen it live? Personally, I would prefer they had done something else- with so much to choose from I didn't think they needed to do one of Chris's songs.

LIB and various bootlegs....were enough, trust me!!!

I totally agree with your last point. They have so much stuff between the two of them that they have NO NEED to attempt any of Christine's songs without her...there is simply NO NEED FOR IT! (Can I stress that enough? :p )

HELLO STEVIE (like she is ever going to read this): Storms, Angel, Crystal, Twisted....have you ever heard of any of these songs??? Great songs that you haven't done in ages...It wouldn't hurt to try.

And Lord knows they could dust some of those ol' Buckingham Nicks songs off and give them a shot...whatever they want to do with their own damn material...just stay away from Christine's...PLEASE! :)

Agree, agree, agree. With all points. Except. Stevie didn't mutilate Don't Stop. It was different, but not horrible, imo.

I think we all know how I feel on the issue. "Time" and "Say You Will" were both validly released as Fleetwood Mac. Those who are exclusively fans of the "Rumours" band are the last group of people who can legitimately say "it isn't Fleetwood Mac because X isn't in the band." Unless X is either Mick or John (and really, only Mick if we're being technical), then you simply do not have a leg to stand on (pardon the pun). Stevie and Lindsey joined the circus seven years in. There was a band before them. It stands to reason that there would be one after them. 'Nuf said.

First, I miss Christine McVie period. I miss Joni Mitchell, Bob Welch, Nina (God i miss Nina) anyway. I did not like Say You Will initially, but it grew on me. I was a little pissed at LB's comments regarding Christine. I am still pissed at LB for no solo album. I was waiting for GOS for so long and can't believe CM got an album out before him. He should have way more albums than her!! My point is that I miss Christine, and sort of annoyed with FMac.

2 main reasons I'm pissed at Mac. One the entourage of performers on stage is ridiculous. And it would have been same if CM was there!! Secondly, setlists are mundane. As good as Rush is they do the same thing to me. They play the same core of 2 hours and splash in a few off tracks.

ok ... having said all my biases I'm glad people like DavidMN get to see FMac because you take what you can get. But I wish David you got a better setlist and I wish you were able to go to the Tusk or Mirage tours....And I wish you could see Songbird at the end. And I wish you could see YMLF live, and Oh Daddy, and see Christine pound the piano on "Not that Funny" and I wish you could see her play Maracas on sing on same mic with LB on World Turning and see her go THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU or STEVIE NICKS!!!!!!!!!! in her shrill voice.. or see her getting bombed and smoking on stage!!! damn i miss that ****!

Gawd you rock!

I miss that **** too, and I never got to see ANY OF THAT!!!

NEVER EVER will I get to see Christine live, unless by some miracle....:( :distress:

I wish you did too! She was so equally important to me in every incarnation she was in. Whether it be the Kiln tour or the Dance she was always fun to watch.. those who say she wasn't animated well that's just a matter of opinion and taste...

I have to say that I admire your persistence, always, and you know I absolutely agree with you. But I just don't think I could do it the way you do. I can't even be bothered to respond to these people. They're talking out of their asses and they know it, and there's simply no possible way they're ever going to respond to something as mundane as "logic" or "history" or "fact." Regardless, godspeed.

I, pretty much, am done with FM live. Partially because Chris is no longer there, but ALSO because they are now long in the tooth, unable to hit any higher notes actually on the original songs, but also for the fact that they play the same old tired **** every single night.

Know when, to say when(and I don't mean myself).

I'd rather have a band who enjoys touring...instead of someone who didn't want to tour after Mirage but continued getting suckered into it somehow. To me, that leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I can't watch someone up on stage knowing that they really don't want to be there.

I have never been a huge fan of Christine - even though I like some of her songs- and at first I thought that her absence would not be a big loss for me, but when I bought the Dance DVD I realised that I was wrong. In a way it is some much better than the Live in Boston. Not just the songs, but her vocals as well..
It 's perhaps because (as a previous poster said) she sort of balances out Stevie's & Lindsey's extremes.

I miss Christine in the band.

I liked Say You Will (even though I think it's too long) but the balance that Christine provided is now lacking. the very first song on the album when you know the chorus is about to kick and then..... well that doesn't sound right. Musically I think she's the only one who can command Lindsey's respect even if it annoys him! I'm not sure that it would have sold more if she'd taken part though.

I saw them twice at Earls Court in 2003 and the first time I REALLY missed Christine on stage - but that was the first time I'd ever seen FM without Ms McVie on stage.

They were very good except for there now being three occasions to go to the bar, have a wee etc which I found tedious. On the other hand Lindsey and Stevie sang Say Goodbye beautifully.

I agree with what some others have said about doing Christine's material. I'd rather they didn't or if they must can Stevie please LEARN THE DAMN WORDS! The two times I saw them she buggered it up each time.

Gail

Not to pick on you personally (since you are not the first and probably not the last to make such a comment), but this **** drives me nuts. :mad:

"Behind the Mask, Time, and Say You Will just aren't really Fleetwood Mac." Then WTF are they? If lacking a key member of the Rumours lineup equates to not really being "Fleetwood Mac" then I suppose by that estimation Then Play On, Bare Trees, and anything pre 1975 "aren't really Fleetwood Mac" either. Dislike those albums all you want, but THEY ARE REALLY FLEETWOOD MAC. :rolleyes:

Can't help it, I'm a "Blue State-er". :lol:

i didn't have time to read every entry but here's my reponse to those that i did read.
Say You Will was a really great album. Musically, I thought it was pretty adventurous. I could have done without a lot of Stevie's songs. I thought the title track, Silver Girl, Goodbye Baby, and Running Through the Garden were very mediocre (if not shrill and annoying). It's a shame that she didn't save the best of Trouble In Shangri-La for Say You Will.
I've always thought that one of the reasons why Stevie really shines on Fleetwood Mac albums is because there are usually just 3 tracks. She's best in small doses. So for that reason, maybe Say You Will would have been stronger had Chris contributed.
(If you remove those tracks from the album and insert the title track from TISL and add It's Only Love, it's a much stronger album).
Ahh the wonders of itunes and my ipod...

I liked the show that I saw on the tour in LA. In general, I thought they played better than they did on the Dance tour. I don't like all the extra back-up musicians and singers. I'd rather hear them as a 4 piece even if it means hearing some off-key harmonies. I like my rock and roll loud and raw. Fleetwood Mac has the loud part down, but they need to get away from the over-produced/huge production thing on tour.
And yes, I agree - the same old set list night after night got really stale.
It's not fun going to a show knowing what you're going to hear before they play it - but maybe the internet is to blame for that.
Christine is surely missed. I absolutely loved her version of Oh Daddy on the Dance tour. (If anyone has an mp3 of it please let me know).
And I agree, it was a bad choice to play Don't Stop on the Say You Will tour.
It came off as being really cheesey and nostalgia-act esque. In a bad post-Brian Wilson Beach Boys kind of way.
But Don't Stop has always been the only Fleetwood Mac song I've never liked - so maybe it's just me.
I also cringe when FM plays Stand Back, so I have some unpopular opinions.
After hearing Chris's solo album, I was relieved that she was no longer in the band. I kind of feel like she's done everything she can do as a songwriter. All the new stuff feels really average and I sometimes wonder if it would have taken away from the "electricity" of Say You Will.
I think Stevie and Lindsey are still into taking chances and trying new things. Who knows - they may even work with a younger/more progressive producer for the next album.
Christine sounds very much set in her ways, so it was probably a wise decision to opt out of the Fleetwood Mac machine.

Just my 2 cents...

Oh...but, don't you think Chris' latest songs would've ended up sounding quite a bit different had they been sprinkled with Lindsey-dust and had the Fleetwood/McVie rhythm section??

btw, do you have ITM yet ChiliD????

Someone has been smoking funny cigarettes.

Or Lindsey is, anyway, and he can occasionally convince Stevie to go along for the ride.

You really think Lindsey will ever hand over the reins to another person?

What's more "set in its ways" than the Fleetwood Mac machine?

YES. Indeed they would have.

-Lis

Which is exactly my point about the SYW tour. All 4 of them WANTED to be there.:nod:

Brandon you really missed out with the SYW tour. But I know Christine's your gal, so I guess I can respect your opinion even if I dont agree with it.

I'll tell you this much about Time. It's not personally my favorite, but it's unfair to say it's not a legitimate Fleetwood Mac album. You're right on about the legend of the band being how they've evolved. That's what's so faciniating about them to me.:nod:

key word here is "try" dissention