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upontheventura 12-09-2005 08:21 PM
Honestly guys, the mitzpha...
 
I am so tired I can not be bothered with spelling it correctly. Is anyone here truly disappointed with Stevie over this? I gotta say that I am. But then I try to remember Stevie kissing that soldier or visiting the soldiers and giving them ipods. And all the years of great music she has brought us. But this mitzpa thing has REALLY turned me off. REALLY. Anybody else feeling this way? Just me?

BombaySapphire3 12-09-2005 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by upontheventura
I am so tired I can not be bothered with spelling it correctly. Is anyone here truly disappointed with Stevie over this? I gotta say that I am. But then I try to remember Stevie kissing that soldier or bringing visiting the soldiers and giving them ipods. And all the years of great music she has brough us. But this mitzpa thing has REALLY turned me off. REALLY. Anybody else feeling this way? Just me?
Yes. Performing at an event put on by an Iraqi war profiteer who sold the military faulty vests and then turning up to visit wounded soldiers just boggles my mind.

upontheventura 12-09-2005 08:36 PM
You know I am trying not to be so judgemental. And there have been things that Stevie has done that I have made fun of here before (to the dismay of the loyalists) so I will try to be as mature as possible. But I do not think I will be looking at her in the same way any time soon. And just the utter tackyness of the the whole thing is just the tip of the iceberg. The teleprompter jarred me too, but I am gonna let that go. I am just really dismayed. Couldn't tell if anyone here really cared or not.

Jyqm 12-09-2005 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by upontheventura
I am so tired I can not be bothered with spelling it correctly. Is anyone here truly disappointed with Stevie over this? I gotta say that I am. But then I try to remember Stevie kissing that soldier or bringing visiting the soldiers and giving them ipods. And all the years of great music she has brough us. But this mitzpa thing has REALLY turned me off. REALLY. Anybody else feeling this way? Just me?
I do find it very strange and potentially hypocritical that she would hire herself out to a war profiteer for his private party barely a week before once again visiting with the wounded soldiers she seems to care so much about, but again, we don't know what she did with her paycheck. I would like to think that she donated it straight to Walter Reed Hospital, though I'm not entirely sure she's capable of such a luscious bit of irony. I'd be surprised if Henley didn't encourage her and Joe Walsh to donate their pay to some charitable cause, though. Anyway, I'll reserve judgment on this count, since we really don't know what she did with the money, nor is she obligated to tell us.

As for the fact of her playing a private party for a bunch of rich folks: Eh, it's certainly not the first time she's done it, and she's never made bones about playing private parties before. She loves that ****.

The fact that not a word about the event has been posted on the NicksFix does suggest a sense of embarrassment on the part of Stevie and her PR folks, though. It seems clear that they realize this is not the kind of thing Stevie's fans want to hear about her doing, and I wouldn't be surprised if they discouraged her from performing at similar events in the future.

Jyqm 12-09-2005 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by upontheventura
Couldn't tell if anyone here really cared or not.
Did you miss the "Stevie did a bat mitzvah" thread? It was dozens of pages long, filled with (among other things) plenty of folks who found the whole event to be a bit heinous and were disappointed that Stevie (and some of the other musicians) participated.

BombaySapphire3 12-09-2005 08:41 PM
I've been a fan since I was a kid in the late 1970s so I think I have some room to express an opinion .In nearly 30 years I have never been so disappointed in any artist in any genre that I truly love as I am in Stevie Nicks right now.

upontheventura 12-09-2005 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3
I've been a fan since I was a kid in the late 1970s so I think I have some room to express an opinion .In nearly 30 years I have never been so disappointed in any artist in any genre that I truly love as I am in Stevie Nicks right now.
And that heinous picture of Steven Tyler with those girls. It was just so disappointing. Pathetic really. :mad:

EnchantedSLN 12-09-2005 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by upontheventura
I am so tired I can not be bothered with spelling it correctly. Is anyone here truly disappointed with Stevie over this? I gotta say that I am. But then I try to remember Stevie kissing that soldier or visiting the soldiers and giving them ipods. And all the years of great music she has brought us. But this mitzpa thing has REALLY turned me off. REALLY. Anybody else feeling this way? Just me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3
I've been a fan since I was a kid in the late 1970s so I think I have some room to express an opinion .In nearly 30 years I have never been so disappointed in any artist in any genre that I truly love as I am in Stevie Nicks right now.

Wow. I guess I don't really get the outrage. It's pretty lame, but not unheard of. Celebrities make private appearances for exorbitant amounts of money all the time... sometimes it makes the news, but usually it doesn't. I love Stevie as an artist and think she'd be a kick to spend an afternoon with; I'd like to think she's above that kind of thing, but I don't hold her to so high a standard of morals that it would shake my fandom to learn that she is, on occasion, no different.

I guess I don't feel like I can judge her based on my assumptions about what she knew about the girl's dad or what she might or might not have done with the money anyway. In the other thread someone said that if Stevie donated it to a charity, you can bet we would have heard about it. Not true. I think she probably does plenty of charitable stuff we never hear about. Maybe it went to the AHI, or Walter Reed, or another organization, or straight into her bank account... we don't know. I also wonder how much she knew about the gig or Brooks' background going into it. Maybe it was worked out primarily through her management and all she was told is "Hey, this guy wants you to play his daughter's party." As opposed to "Hey, super nefarious defense contractor who sells crappy vests to our soldiers wants you to play his demonspawn's bat mitzvah will his tainted blood money." I guess in that case you could fault her for not researching her clients before she agrees to a performance, but really. Maybe she knew that he sold the vests but not the rest of the story, and merely thought she was playing for a guy whose products protect soldiers... Stevie seems to display a simplified understanding/interest in political stuff sometimes, IMO.

In the end I can't really hold it against her. If I were to be "disappointed" in anyone, it'd probably be Tom Petty, since he has gone on and on about greed and money-grubbing. But I don't know what he did with his money either :). That was my long-winded answer to upontheventura's initial question that probably could have just been answered with a succint "no." :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by upontheventura
The teleprompter jarred me too, but I am gonna let that go.
I think that's actually pretty standard now. Lots of venues have them built right into the stage. I've never seen her rely on it... but I can sort of understand how she might like to have it there as a safety net. The Reno SYW show where she couldn't finish Goodbye Baby due to being jarred by a fight in the audience comes to mind.

dissention 12-09-2005 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyqm
As for the fact of her playing a private party for a bunch of rich folks: Eh, it's certainly not the first time she's done it, and she's never made bones about playing private parties before. She loves that ****.
I'm quite fond of what Mr. Tom Cestaro of Celebrities Plus Inc. had to say about this bat vomitzvah hooey in the current issue of Entertainment Weekly: "Even though they're getting paid, it sort of humanizes these stars. Like, they're not on the red carpet, they're not at an awards show, they're at a banquet hall in Syoset, Long Island."

You know, he's absolutely correct. When I think of someone like Fitty Cent or Stephanie Lynn Nicks being written a check for half a million dollars, or a cool million, for less than a days work, my first thought is 'Ah, they're human. Just like the rest of us. Cheese whiz, man.' The disgust over such avarice and gaudiness plays second fiddle to the realization that, wow, Stevie Nicks, Tom Petty, and the rest of that flock are real human beings, collecting exorbitant paychecks and standing in the chow line in a banquet hall at a lavish party just like the rest of us lowly paupers. How delicious.

I shall never pass up the opportunity to attend a potluck supper at the Knights of Columbus ever again. It will give me the perfect opportunity to live like a star for a night in a lovely banquet hall. Albeit a human star.

It's rather unfortunate that the likes of Mr. Cestaro can't recognize that such greed and tackiness couldn't be anything but human.

diamondsnake 12-09-2005 11:05 PM
I'm not mad at Stevie at all. If I were in her shoes, I would have done the same thing. If someone offered me a million bucks to sing a couple songs, I would have done it no questions asked.

And like I said, Stevie probably didn't even know who the father of the girl was. How was she supposed to know?

JazmenFlowers 12-09-2005 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3
I've been a fan since I was a kid in the late 1970s so I think I have some room to express an opinion .In nearly 30 years I have never been so disappointed in any artist in any genre that I truly love as I am in Stevie Nicks right now.
In 30 entire years, this has upset you most? :lol:

JazmenFlowers 12-09-2005 11:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by upontheventura
You know I am trying not to be so judgemental. And there have been things that Stevie has done that I have made fun of here before (to the dismay of the loyalists) so I will try to be as mature as possible. But I do not think I will be looking at her in the same way any time soon. And just the utter tackyness of the the whole thing is just the tip of the iceberg. The teleprompter jarred me too, but I am gonna let that go. I am just really dismayed. Couldn't tell if anyone here really cared or not.
oh dear jesus, get off of it. she's human. you mean to tell me after how ever many years of devotion, this one thing, of which we know very little about, has caused you to completely changed your outlook on Stevie - not the coke or anything else, but the fact that she played a private party and used a freaking teleprompter?

I just don't get it.

JazmenFlowers 12-09-2005 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyqm
Did you miss the "Stevie did a bat mitzvah" thread? It was dozens of pages long, filled with (among other things) plenty of folks who found the whole event to be a bit heinous and were disappointed that Stevie (and some of the other musicians) participated.
exactly. why stir this **** up again?

JazmenFlowers 12-09-2005 11:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by upontheventura
I am so tired I can not be bothered with spelling it correctly. Is anyone here truly disappointed with Stevie over this? I gotta say that I am. But then I try to remember Stevie kissing that soldier or visiting the soldiers and giving them ipods. And all the years of great music she has brought us. But this mitzpa thing has REALLY turned me off. REALLY. Anybody else feeling this way? Just me?
by the way, if that is you with Tori in your avatar, I am terribly jealous. I love Tori in a serious kind of way. that's just awesome.

BombaySapphire3 12-09-2005 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers
In 30 entire years, this has upset you most? :lol:
Yes. In the context of my post it is the most disappointing behavior of any artist of whom I am a major fan of .Playing a concert for cash for a sleazy dealer of faulty vests to the U.S military during a war is kind of a venal low point in my book .But is it the most upsetting thing that has happened in the last 30 years period. Hardly .

BombaySapphire3 12-09-2005 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux
I have no opinion on the matter, no idea what she knew and there's no devotion on my part to be changed. I do have to question why you imply that someone should be more outraged at another's personal use of drugs than at the idea of another supporting a man who is making money out of an immoral war involving thousands of deaths. Again, I don't know what she knew, her actions speak as a support however she may simply be guilty of ignorance, but you appear to be implying that the idea the topic starter is outraged at is less of a moral outrage than that of personal own drug use.
Sadly Lux there are still plenty of people in the U.S. who support the illegal and immoral Iraq war and don't seem to have to much of a problem with people losing their lives over such senselessness .So maybe the coke is more of a moral outrage to some .Though that way of thinking is somethng I will never be able to understand.

JazmenFlowers 12-10-2005 12:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux
I have no opinion on the matter, no idea what she knew and there's no devotion on my part to be changed. I do have to question why you imply that someone should be more outraged at another's personal use of drugs than at the idea of another supporting a man who is making money out of an immoral war involving thousands of deaths. Again, I don't know what she knew, her actions speak as a support however she may simply be guilty of ignorance, but you appear to be implying that the idea the topic starter is outraged at is less of a moral outrage than that of personal own drug use.
absolutely not. my point was that we have close to no facts about this performance and are still judging very harshly. people claiming to have totally changed their outlook on Stevie or that it's one of the lowest things an idolized star has done in 30 years of fandom...

JazmenFlowers 12-10-2005 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3
Sadly Lux there are still plenty of people in the U.S. who support the illegal and immoral Iraq war and don't seem to have to much of a problem with people losing their lives over such senselessness .So maybe the coke is more of a moral outrage to some .Though that way of thinking is somethng I will never be able to understand.
I agree. There are people who support this war - and I am not one of them.

JazmenFlowers 12-10-2005 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux
I have no opinion on the matter, no idea what she knew and there's no devotion on my part to be changed. I do have to question why you imply that someone should be more outraged at another's personal use of drugs than at the idea of another supporting a man who is making money out of an immoral war involving thousands of deaths. Again, I don't know what she knew, her actions speak as a support however she may simply be guilty of ignorance, but you appear to be implying that the idea the topic starter is outraged at is less of a moral outrage than that of personal own drug use.
another thing I want to point out is that this was not a campaign fundraiser or a concert to benefit this man. it was a bat mitzvah and Stevie was being paid for her performance. to me that, in no way, accounts as support. that's just my opinion. you may or may not agree with that and that's perfectly fine.

Rickypt 12-10-2005 12:20 AM
Well, I guess this topic isn't going to die until Stevie does something new, like the Australian shows.

I've said a lot about this Bat Mitzvah. I'm not angry with or disappointed in Stevie. I'm embarrassed for all the performers, including Stevie, because they played a ridiculous party, with a host who didn't treat many of them with respect (as evident by the Aerosmith/drum incident).

I'm disappointed in the host for flaunting his wealth and wasting money that could have helped so many people.

I think Stevie's management should have kept her from doing this show. She has received really bad PR, and for such a caring and giving person, shouldn't have done a private show for a guy with so many labor disputes and a questionable record on his war equipment. But I've followed Stevie enough to believe that she isn't intimately involved with her scheduling. This one I blame on her management. Stevie's heart can't be questioned in my opinion--this one is a lack of good judgement by her handlers.

The only artist I'm really disappointed in is Petty because he seems so much more engaged with politics. He really should have known who he was playing for.

JazmenFlowers 12-10-2005 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickypt
Well, I guess this topic isn't going to die until Stevie does something new, like the Australian shows.

I've said a lot about this Bat Mitzvah. I'm not angry with or disappointed in Stevie. I'm embarrassed for all the performers, including Stevie, because they played a ridiculous party, with a host who didn't treat many of them with respect (as evident by the Aerosmith/drum incident).

I'm disappointed in the host for flaunting his wealth and wasting money that could have helped so many people.

I think Stevie's management should have kept her from doing this show. She has received really bad PR, and for such a caring and giving person, shouldn't have done a private show for a guy with so many labor disputes and a questionable record on his war equipment. But I've followed Stevie enough to believe that she isn't intimately involved with her scheduling. This one I blame on her management. Stevie's heart can't be questioned in my opinion--this one is a lack of good judgement by her handlers.

The only artist I'm really disappointed in is Petty because he seems so much more engaged with politics. He really should have known who he was playing forl.
yeppers :nod:

Jyqm 12-10-2005 07:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondsnake
And like I said, Stevie probably didn't even know who the father of the girl was. How was she supposed to know?
I completely understand people not being upset/disappointed/outraged/whatever about Stevie playing this kind of event, but this line of logic just seems completely stupid to me. Stevie accepts a huge paycheck from a guy and plays at his private party, but "how was she supposed to know" who he was? She's not an idiot, people.

Jyqm 12-10-2005 07:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3
Sadly Lux there are still plenty of people in the U.S. who support the illegal and immoral Iraq war and don't seem to have to much of a problem with people losing their lives over such senselessness
I don't know about "plenty." Not these days.

jannieC 12-10-2005 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickypt
Well, I guess this topic isn't going to die until Stevie does something new, like the Australian shows.

I've said a lot about this Bat Mitzvah. I'm not angry with or disappointed in Stevie. I'm embarrassed for all the performers, including Stevie, because they played a ridiculous party, with a host who didn't treat many of them with respect (as evident by the Aerosmith/drum incident).

I'm disappointed in the host for flaunting his wealth and wasting money that could have helped so many people.

I think Stevie's management should have kept her from doing this show. She has received really bad PR, and for such a caring and giving person, shouldn't have done a private show for a guy with so many labor disputes and a questionable record on his war equipment. But I've followed Stevie enough to believe that she isn't intimately involved with her scheduling. This one I blame on her management. Stevie's heart can't be questioned in my opinion--this one is a lack of good judgement by her handlers.

The only artist I'm really disappointed in is Petty because he seems so much more engaged with politics. He really should have known who he was playing for.
I completely agree with this post. I honestly beleieve that Stevie had no idea what this man does for a living when she decided to play the party. And truthfully, I like that she would be willing to do a private party, for the right price. *I'll* never have that kind of money, but I can dream, right?

And about the teleprompter-uh, hello? What difference does THAT make? Seriously- I don't get this. I can't believe that this little tidbit of information would change a fan's outlook. Who cares if she uses one or not? Maybe it's just a security thing for her, or whatever. Sometimes it feels like fans are too nitpicky with Stevie. I, for one, don't understand the constant critisism. If you honestly think that Stevie supports this gazillionaire, and because of that you think she's let you down, that's one thing. But some of the other stuff is just nitpicky to me. :shrug:

priestofnothing 12-10-2005 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jannieC
And about the teleprompter-uh, hello? What difference does THAT make? Seriously- I don't get this.
Just for everybody who is shocked at this, Stevie used a teleprompter at the show I attended last summer on the Gold Dust Tour. She probably had it the whole tour. Anybody else spot it?

upontheventura 12-10-2005 09:59 AM
Hey Jazmin- that is Tori and me. An artist for whom my respect never wavers. Could you imagine Tori singing "Blood Roses" at a Mitzfa (sp). lol. That would be something to see!!!! As for this thread, I really didn't want to stir things up and I should have added my comment to the existing thread. But I feel pretty strongly about it and I tried to make myself come across as nicely as possible. Even though I think it is SO LAME. I will leave it at that.

Ghost_Tracker 12-10-2005 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers
In 30 entire years, this has upset you most? :lol:


L'g. M. F'g. A O. !!!!! :xoxo:

Sahara 12-10-2005 01:02 PM
It doesn't really annoy me, what she chooses to do is her own business but I would like to point out that on BBC last night Johnathon Ross mentioned it and talked about Tom Petty, Aerosmith and the Eagles ... but didn't mention Stevie.

OK, that was pointless. Never mind.

DavidMn 12-10-2005 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dissention
I'm quite fond of what Mr. Tom Cestaro of Celebrities Plus Inc. had to say about this bat vomitzvah hooey in the current issue of Entertainment Weekly: "Even though they're getting paid, it sort of humanizes these stars. Like, they're not on the red carpet, they're not at an awards show, they're at a banquet hall in Syoset, Long Island."

You know, he's absolutely correct. When I think of someone like Fitty Cent or Stephanie Lynn Nicks being written a check for half a million dollars, or a cool million, for less than a days work, my first thought is 'Ah, they're human. Just like the rest of us. Cheese whiz, man.' The disgust over such avarice and gaudiness plays second fiddle to the realization that, wow, Stevie Nicks, Tom Petty, and the rest of that flock are real human beings, collecting exorbitant paychecks and standing in the chow line in a banquet hall at a lavish party just like the rest of us lowly paupers. How delicious.

I shall never pass up the opportunity to attend a potluck supper at the Knights of Columbus ever again. It will give me the perfect opportunity to live like a star for a night in a lovely banquet hall. Albeit a human star.

It's rather unfortunate that the likes of Mr. Cestaro can't recognize that such greed and tackiness couldn't be anything but human.
I prefer Potlucks at the VFW myself.:lol:

ELIUD 12-10-2005 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by upontheventura
I am so tired I can not be bothered with spelling it correctly. Is anyone here truly disappointed with Stevie over this? I gotta say that I am. But then I try to remember Stevie kissing that soldier or visiting the soldiers and giving them ipods. And all the years of great music she has brought us. But this mitzpa thing has REALLY turned me off. REALLY. Anybody else feeling this way? Just me?
It really doesn't bother me at all.

DavidMn 12-10-2005 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELIUD
It really doesn't bother me at all.
Where are your priorities dammit?!?!?!;)

BombaySapphire3 12-10-2005 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyqm
I don't know about "plenty." Not these days.
IT is still over twice the number of the 18% of us in the U.S. that were against it the week it began.Incredible that there should be even that much still.

GODDESS6 12-10-2005 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnchantedSLN
Wow. I guess I don't really get the outrage. It's pretty lame, but not unheard of. Celebrities make private appearances for exorbitant amounts of money all the time... sometimes it makes the news, but usually it doesn't. I love Stevie as an artist and think she'd be a kick to spend an afternoon with; I'd like to think she's above that kind of thing, but I don't hold her to so high a standard of morals that it would shake my fandom to learn that she is, on occasion, no different.

I guess I don't feel like I can judge her based on my assumptions about what she knew about the girl's dad or what she might or might not have done with the money anyway. In the other thread someone said that if Stevie donated it to a charity, you can bet we would have heard about it. Not true. I think she probably does plenty of charitable stuff we never hear about. Maybe it went to the AHI, or Walter Reed, or another organization, or straight into her bank account... we don't know. I also wonder how much she knew about the gig or Brooks' background going into it. Maybe it was worked out primarily through her management and all she was told is "Hey, this guy wants you to play his daughter's party." As opposed to "Hey, super nefarious defense contractor who sells crappy vests to our soldiers wants you to play his demonspawn's bat mitzvah will his tainted blood money." I guess in that case you could fault her for not researching her clients before she agrees to a performance, but really. Maybe she knew that he sold the vests but not the rest of the story, and merely thought she was playing for a guy whose products protect soldiers... Stevie seems to display a simplified understanding/interest in political stuff sometimes, IMO.

In the end I can't really hold it against her. If I were to be "disappointed" in anyone, it'd probably be Tom Petty, since he has gone on and on about greed and money-grubbing. But I don't know what he did with his money either :). That was my long-winded answer to upontheventura's initial question that probably could have just been answered with a succint "no." :p



I think that's actually pretty standard now. Lots of venues have them built right into the stage. I've never seen her rely on it... but I can sort of understand how she might like to have it there as a safety net. The Reno SYW show where she couldn't finish Goodbye Baby due to being jarred by a fight in the audience comes to mind.
this was very well said~

Sahara 12-10-2005 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELIUD
It really doesn't bother me at all.
The sig picture: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Pure genius. High Five!!! :thumbsup:

sara1998 12-10-2005 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers
oh dear jesus, get off of it. she's human. you mean to tell me after how ever many years of devotion, this one thing, of which we know very little about, has caused you to completely changed your outlook on Stevie - not the coke or anything else, but the fact that she played a private party and used a freaking teleprompter?

I just don't get it.
I don't get it myself. But, to each their own. I agree with this post. Hell, when I'm 56 I'll probably need a teleprompter just for everyday conversation...

Sahara 12-11-2005 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers
oh dear jesus, get off of it. she's human. you mean to tell me after how ever many years of devotion, this one thing, of which we know very little about, has caused you to completely changed your outlook on Stevie - not the coke or anything else, but the fact that she played a private party and used a freaking teleprompter?

I just don't get it.

I _completely_ agree. Bad call of judgment or whatever, it's not THAT big a deal....

ShangriLaTroubl 12-11-2005 02:55 PM
It really doesn't bother me at all...it's nothing new. It's not different to me than her selling herself, as well as many other bands to Clear Channel year after year for tours for the highest bidding price...It's her life, and I am not so sure she would know the background on this person. This is likely something offered up to her by management, with talk of money only, and she took it...nothing surprising to me. She's been playing private parties on the side for years, it's nothing new.


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