Shame on Beyonce, Rock on Stevie
 

Stevie gets a shout out today on Foxnews.com's 411 Report. Here's the link, then the text. (12th paragraph down)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,172552,00.html


Beyonce: She Didn't Write The Songs

Vanity Fair finally puts a solo African-American on its cover, and doesn’t do any fact checking.

Beyonce Knowles, who’s full of sass and has a striking voice, actually thinks she’s a songwriter. She says so in the new Vanity Fair.

In fact, Beyonce did not write her big hit "Crazy in Love," or even conceive of it. "Crazy in Love" — its horns, percussion, chief melody and overall "feel" — was written by the late and very great Eugene Record of the Chi-Lites (he died this summer). The group recorded and released it in 1969 as "Are You My Woman (Tell Me So)."

Indeed, the person who sought out the track was hip-hop producer Rich Harrison. He’s the go-to guy when you need to sample something obscure because you can’t write your own music.

He told MTV.com in February 2004 that he’d had the sample for some time, long before Beyonce knew about it.

"Yeah, I had it in the chamber," he told the Web site. "I hadn't really shopped it much, because sometimes you don't want to come out of the bag before it's right."

Harrison then brought Jay-Z in to add a rap. The result was such a success that Harrison would later adapt the horn section from the Chi-Lites' record for similar records he produced for pop singers Amerie and Jennifer Lopez.

The Vanity Fair article, however, makes it seem like Beyonce is a genius songwriter who came up with all this stuff. Knowles says, without her veracity being questioned: "'Crazy in Love' was really hard to write because there was so much going on … I mean, I had written — what? —seven, eight number one songs with Destiny's Child, in a row." Of Jay-Z's added rap: "I knew the song wasn’t complete because the horns were so old school…"

There, she is correct. The horns were old school. They were charted 36 years ago by Record, who also wrote "Have You Seen Her?," "Oh Girl," "Am I The Same Girl?" and many other classic R&B hits. Unfortunately, he’s no longer here to defend himself.

In the Vanity Fair article, Beyonce also claims to have “written” seven No. 1 songs. Again, not exactly. Her name is on them all. But “Independent Woman, Pt. 1” was authored by Samuel J. Barnes and Jean Claude Olivier, tweaked by producer Cory Rooney and added to by …Beyonce. Olivier and Barnes also worked on constructing Jennifer Lopez’s “Jenny from the Block.”

“Say My Name,” a big Destiny’s Child hit, was written by Rodney Jerkins, his brother Freddie and Rodney’s writing partner LeShawn Daniels. The names of the four girls from the group were added again, so they could share in the collection of royalties.

There’s more: "Baby Boy" was based on a hit by reggae star Ini Kamoze called "Here Comes the Hot Stepper." "Naughty Girl" is merely a hefty sample of Donna Summer and Giorgio Moroder’s "Love to Love You Baby." "Bills Bills Bills" was written by singer/songwriter Kandi Burruss and producer Kevin Briggs. "Nasty Girl" and "Survivor" were the work of composer/producer Anthony Dent, who had to share credit with not only Beyonce but also her father, Matthew Knowles. "Bootylicious" is simply Stevie Nicks’s "Edge of Seventeen."

Nicks, following Sting’s lead from years ago with Diddy’s sample of "Every Breath You Take," did not allow Destiny’s Child or Beyonce to get any royalties at all. Rock on, Stevie!

In fact, not one of the songs listed under Beyonce’s name on the BMI Web site is written solely by her. They are usually credited to a list of songwriters. The list comprises the actual writers, and then a few people who’ve "tweaked" the song with a rap or by adding samples.

But this is the way it’s done in hip-hop and rap. "Writing" a song has new meaning. It means "licensing" the song from another writer. The word "composer" is not in the hip-hop dictionary.

This can make for a peculiar situation at the Grammy Awards. In 2000, Jerkins and his writing team had to share the Grammy for Best R&B Song for “Say My Name” with the members of Destiny’s Child because their names were on the credits.

In 2003, Beyonce, Harrison and Jay-Z won a couple of Grammys including Best R&B Song for “Crazy in Love.” Record’s name isn’t even listed on the Grammy Web site and he was the writer. Hopefully his widow is getting checks.

Over the weekend I discussed this phenomenon with a famous songwriter concerning rapper Nelly, whose albums — like Kanye West’s — are made up of samples of previous works. I thought they’d find the whole thing deplorable. Not so.

"Really?" they said, realizing the revenue that could be realized. "I’ll send him my whole catalogue for his next one!"

Otherwise, Vanity Fair’s annual music issue, as has been noted elsewhere, is an attempt to make up for not including African-Americans in years of previous issues. The magazine photographed nearly all of the most famous members of the hip-hop and rap community. Most of them fare very well, although Sean “Diddy” Combs probably regrets his portrait.

Interesting/:nod:

Beyonce sucks. :nod: :nod: :nod:

The first time I heard Bootylicious, all I could think was "hmmm... the music here... it's hauntingly familiar!" One minute later, all I could think was "the music here... it sucks!" :D

Ironically, the famous guitar riff from Edge was taken from a Police song according to Waddy. She didn't write that.

What else in Bootylicious is taken from Edge (besides the riff that became the hook for Booty)? Stevie doesn't write any of that kinda stuff, right? That's all the producer or musicians adding their touches to her basic melody/chord progression.

Still, at least it's (mostly) original music. All artists borrow from each other all the time, but I think the rap community has gone a little overboard.

I think it's funny though that the songwriter questioned in the article says he'd ship over his whole catalog at the thought of the royalties he would get. :laugh:

I remember hearing that. But you know there are only so many chord progressions and notes that can be played...it will happen that people "borrow" this or that...IMO, it's being able to borrow it and make it completely, honestly all your own that makes it work.

I agree. When I heard Sierra Leone by Kanye West and he had sampled Diamonds Are Forever I was pissed. And Madonna's new song Hung Up is bird dookie compared to Gimme Gimme Gimme, the original song by ABBA. It sounds like she took a great hook and melody and threw some vocals on...eek.

They have gone a little too overboard. Why sample? Write your own music.

To my knowledge it's only the riff. And let's not forget Stevie opened her last 2 solo tours with Bootylicious!

I believe so.

I could not agree more! We all know our girl can write songs :nod:.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
No kidding!

I'm curious about the Sean Combs 'regretable' photo, though!

I think you're both completely misunderstanding one of the basic foundations of rap music.

"Why don't rap artists write their own music?" You might as well be asking, "Why don't collage artists draw their own pictures?"

Of course, she uses the same chord progressions over and over again and recycles her own lyrics all the time. Isn't she just "sampling" from herself?

Totally. Stevie is a huge Stevie thief.
Oh, and apparently Waddy was pissed, pissed, pissed when he found out that the Edge riff was "stolen" and he told Stevie "never do that to me again" or something.

and you heard this where?

tone - not snarky

i read it too. if no one provides a source, i'll look after dinner.

Cool!

I mean she played it at all the TISL shows and some of the later ones, which seems to me shows he could care a less. But, you never know :cool:

I never really understood just how that constituted enough of a riff to warrant calling it a steal. It's just eighth notes on an E, measure after measure. The drum lick -- kick-drumming the 2nd beat in a 4-beat measure -- is the bigger "borrowing" from "Bring On the Night," in my opinion.

And certainly the chords of the two respective songs have nothing to do with each other.

well, he was mad when he first found out, I'm sure he's over it. :D Let's see - my source is a musician boyfriend who told me he read it in a Waddy interview(?) in guitar magazine or something.
:D :wavey:
So, my source is someone else who read it somewhere. Of course, this someone wouldn't really make up that he'd read a thing like that, he doesn't care about the mac, and so such a lie would be pointless.

:nod: I hate that trashy hag.

I didn't get it either when i heard the borrowed from song. :shrug:

Waddy discusses the riff from "Edge Of Seventeen" in the interview he did with blackcat for The Penguin.


blackcat: There's something I've wanted to ask you about, Waddy. Way back, in April, 1999 you did an interview with Musician Magazine, with a writer named David Simon. You familiar with that?

Waddy: Yeah.

blackcat: Okay . . . it was a great interview. He said something to you like—
"One of your more famous 'guitar statements' is that staccato opening riff to Stevie Nicks' Edge Of Seventeen. Where you aware of the similarities between that song and the Police's Bring On The Night?" And you said, "I had never heard Bring On The Night, and at that session they told me they were going to do a song based on this feel. I had heard something about the Police, but I didn't know what they were talking about. Then about two years ago, I had the radio on, and on comes what sounds like Edge of Seventeen."

Waddy: Right.

blackcat: Okay. My question is . . . I know of something called "sampling." Was this a case of "sampling" or what was this? I know Stevie doesn't write guitar riffs. Somebody did, but obviously it wasn't Stevie.

Waddy: No, no . . . it was The Police. It was whatever that song is . . . "Bring On The Night."

blackcat: Okay, in the interview you said, "We completely ripped them off."

Waddy: Yes, well, basicially, that's what we wanted to do. But let me say in my own defense, being a respectable thief anyway— if you listen to the Police's song, Andy Summers performs it with some sort of echo unit. There is some sort of artificial "repeating" mechanism going on. And when I heard that, I just said, "I'm not going to do it like that. I don't like that kind of crap. I'll just play the thing." So I just did it the way I still do it, with the hand, as opposed to falsifying it with an echo machine. So it's all dig-a-dig-a-digga. The chords, and everything totally start to move differently. And that drum feel is that same thing. It's that off-off bass drum, against the guitar. So that is what I said. "What? We're doing what? Well, I ain't gonna do that. I'm doing it my own way." And that's how we did it.

Zeppelin borrowed their stuff from the blues, in some cases using exact music if I remember correctly.

Heart borrowed from Zep, they've actually admitted they stole from them.

Stevie lifts phrases from books and uses them as lyrics.

All art comes from something else to be something new. Its a combining of these elements in a new way that is creative. A new way of seeing it or feeling it.

If what Stevie did was so bad Sting would have sued her.

Excellent points mah dear :xoxo:

Why thank you, sweetie. I could use that smooch today! :xoxo: :lol:

True. Also a lot of her lyrics are taken from authors like Edgar Allan Poe, and Oscar Wilde.

I mean she played it at all the TISL shows and some of the later ones, which seems to me shows he could care a less. But, you never know :cool:[/QUOTE]


Besides, they may have settled the difference with either money or a little Stevie-nookie....
Interesting about the "no royalties for Beyonce" though - I have always wondered about that when I hear her starting the show with that song.... does B get royalties for the rest of the song??

Besides, they may have settled the difference with either money or a little Stevie-nookie....
Interesting about the "no royalties for Beyonce" though - I have always wondered about that when I hear her starting the show with that song.... does B get royalties for the rest of the song??[/QUOTE]
I've been interested in this too. When I've seen DC or Beyonce in concert they never do Bootylicious all the way through.

I was just in the library, and checked out the magazine rack.

Everyone else's photo is ultra-high-class, very expensive looking clothing and accessories and locations. Puffy is in royal garb, but sitting slumped in a huge throne. Rather than looking regal, he looks small, like the bratty prince who's put on Dad's jewels and jumped in the chair once Daddy left the room. :laugh:

All songwriters get inspired by people and things. I once wrote lyrics to an REM instrumental and sang it to myself for years, then when I got with a band we reworked the music, but if you had taken the original REM song, Walter's Theme from Dead Letter Office, you could totally sing my words to it.

Speaking of "borrowing" things, has anyone ever heard Drowning in the Sea of Love by Joe Simon (1972). Stevie sang backup on a version that BB King recorded in 1988. Looks like both Stevie and Lindsay listened to the same records. Heh heh.

Drowning in the Sea of Love
Original music and lyrics by Kenneth Gamble, Leon A. Huff

I've been down one time
And I've been down two times
But right now I'm drowning
Drowning in the sea of love

I've been out here so very long
I done lost all my direction
Baby, when you came my way
Thought I had found my protection
But a strong wind came into my life
It surely took me by surprise
I can't seem to control these tears
That's falling from my eyes

I've been down one time
And I've been down two times
But right now I'm drowning
Drowning in the sea of love

Sea of love

Baby, I depended on you
For the love navigation
But now you've gone and deserted me
Can't you see that I'm in desperation
I'm in the middle of a bad love storm
And it's bad as it can be
I look around, all I can see
Is water coming down over me

I've been down one time
And I've been down two times
But right now I'm drowning
Drowning in the sea of love

Sea of love, sea of love

I've been down one time
And I've been down two times
But right now I'm drowning
Drowning in the sea of love

Sea of love
But right now I'm just drowning
Drowning in the sea of love
A sea of love, sea of love

And, the greatest compliment of all:

The Beatles "Sun King" is just Peter Green's "Albatross" with lyrics.

LOL! Thanks! :D

She did? I don't have that!

Would you be able to post an mp3 of it?

To the best of my knowledge Stevie only sang back up on "Can't Get Enough" on BB Kings 1989 Album "King of the Blues:1989". She's neither credited on "Drowning In The Sea of Love" nor is she heard. (I'm listening to it right now just to be sure).

UndoingTheLaces probably got it confused with "Can't Get Enough", unless there is another version floating around somewhere.

Those words are wild! Fleetwood Mac ripped it off!

I thought that was the case, but since I don't own that B.B. King album (I only have an mp3 of "Can't Get Enough"), I wasn't sure if she also guested on "Drowning In The Sea Of Love," and I just didn't know about it.

Thanks for the clarification! :xoxo:

No problem. I remember back then when I bought the CD and saw a song called "Drowning in the Sea of Love" I was convinced Stevie would be on it. It just seemed like it would be obvious. :)