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9/11 - What About PA and DC?
I think it's a terrible shame the media focuses so much on the NY 9/11 tragedy and gives little or no time to the other two crashes that took place that day. At first I thought it seemed very disrespectful to the living relatives of those people, however, maybe some of them are happy they don't have to hear about it over and over every year.
Feel free to add your two cents. Laura |
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Ironically, because so little is known about Flight 77, there has been this crazy theory circulating out there, that it never really did hit the Pentagon. Because the explosion was to small, they aimed the plane for a new section of the Pentagon which didn't have that many people working in it yet, and also because almost all of the people on Flight 77 were somehow involved with the government/politics...etc... It's wierd I know! lol |
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Last night
They showed a documentary type thing on Flight 93 called "The Flight that Fought Back" and played some audio that had me crying and being very proud. Proud of people I'd never met, people I didn't even know existed. I kept thinking "What would I have done in that situation?" I panic at the sight of a cockroach on my kitchen floor for Pete sake! I am not the person you want around to help kick someone's a$$. LOL I always daydream about being a hero, saving someone's life, but in that case, would I have helped them take those a-holes down? I would hope so, but I don't know. I would have been so scared from just the plane ride itself (they said he turned the plane back and forth to get them to stop coming toward the cockpit. Blergh.). I don't even like light turbulence, that incident would have had me screaming and crying. :distress:
Brave folks. :) |
I saw most of the documentary on Flight 93. It was heart-wrenching. I cannot imagine calling a loved one to say goodbye from a hijacked plane, nor can I imagine how those on the receiving felt.
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Oh, Ya mean like...
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Yeah right. |
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WEll it is a shame...what really bakes my noodle is the fact that they didnt shoot the plane down when supposedly the "orders" where given but the pilots didnt "understand." It could've saved some lives. Then again, being up in the air and faced with shooting down innocent Americans on a commercial airliner must be a tough decision to make.
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The flight that crashed in PA is rumoured to be shot down. Some people in this area saw the plane burst into flames in mid-air. The interview from someone who saw it was ripped from CNN after it only aired once. This is all hearsay.
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Good Lord ya'll... most of this stuff in your replies I NEVER heard before. Guess it all answers my question on why there wasn't more coverage of those two crashes.
I admit, I didn't watch too many shows on the 9/11 anniversary and all because I'm one of those people that will lose sleep if I let too much of that kind of thing into my consciousness. So I guess I missed whatever shows DID have something on the two other flights. I heard there was going to be a movie made of the PA flight. Hmmm... maybe that's to help squelch any speculation. Yanno, ever since Watergate, I haven't been able to totally trust what the "gubment" says. Heck, I was even trying to speculate if Katrina could have been created. I guess it's bad enough that the levees had to fail, more people hadn't been evacuated and FEMA had'nt made a faster/stronger response. URG... just makes me wanna run and hide somewhere. :( I'm gonna go light a Lavendar scented candle now. :o Laura |
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CNN interviewed a guy who said he saw the plane burst into flames. It only aired once. The government is trying to hide the fact they shot it down.....and playing up the "they fought back" theory. IMO. |
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Personally...
I believe the terrorists crashed it (Flight 93) into the ground to keep those who fought back from taking control of the plane after having their mission fail, The official audio translations used on the Discovery Channel special is some convincing evidence..."Should we put it down now? Yes, put it down....Allah ackbar".
Never heard about the engine being found 5 miles away though (That's if we are talking about Flight 93 instead of Flight 77)...If Flight 93 was in a steep decent with the turbines at maximum thrust then the engine could have broken off easily from the wing due to structural fatigue failure (Good ol' NDT comes in handy still in regards to the structural integrity of a airline jet.) |
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Well, that black box was decoded by the govt. and I do not trust them one bit :laugh: I trust eyewitnesses much more. Also, it could be both occurred, ie. it was shot down while the passengers were trying to regain control of the jet. It could also be that the improper steering that occured when the passengers tried to regain control caused too much stress and the plane shattered in flight and then exploded. |
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I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale and BTW - SH is trying to buy yellow cake from Niger :rolleyes: Are you really that gullable :eek: I mean the govt. has been lying to us for decades :shrug: |
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Planes that crash are never spread over a five mile area. That demonstrates an explosion, not a crash :shrug: So, what is this "fact" you are relying on. |
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Flight 93 Eyewitness Accounts Crash Witnesses Accounts: "I heard like a boom and the engine sounded funny," she told the Daily News. "I heard two more booms - and then I did not hear anything." What does Temyer think she heard? "I think the plane was shot down," http://dailynews.philly.com/content/...al/SHOT15C.htm "It came in low over the trees and started wobbling," said Tim Thornsberg, a resident of Somerset County, who was working near an old strip mine when he saw the plane. "Then it just rolled over and was flying upside down for a few seconds ... and then it kind of stalled and did a nose dive over the trees. It was just unreal to see something like that." http://www.pittsburgh.com/partners/w...ghtheroes.html Eric Peterson, 28, was working in his shop in the Somerset County village of Lambertsville yesterday morning when he heard a plane, looked up and saw one fly over unusually low. The plane continued on beyond a nearby hill, then dropped out of sight behind a tree line. As it did so, Peterson said it seemed to be turning end-over-end. Then Peterson said he saw a fireball, heard an explosion and saw a mushroom cloud of smoke rise into the sky. http://www.post-gazette.com/headline...rashnat2p2.asp “I saw the plane flying upside down overhead and crash into the nearby trees. My buddy, Doug, and I grabbed our fire extinguishers and ran to the scene,” said Blair. http://www.dailyamerican.com/disaster.html#3 Eric Peterson of Lambertsville looked up when he heard the plane. "It was low enough, I thought you could probably count the rivets," Peterson said. "You could see more of the roof of the plane than you could the belly. It was on its side." "There was a great explosion and you could see the flames. It was a massive, massive explosion. Flames and then smoke and then a massive, massive mushroom cloud." http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaind...3529429109.xml “Normally I wouldn’t look up, but I just heard on the news that all the planes were grounded and thought this was probably the last one I would see for a while, so I looked up,” she said. “I didn’t see the plane but I heard the plane’s engine. Then I heard a loud thump that echoed off the hills and then I heard the plane’s engine. I heard two more loud thumps and didn’t hear the plane’s engine anymore after that.” http://www.dailyamerican.com/disaster.html#3 "We didn't hear that plane coming until it was right on top of us," she said. "Then there was a roar." She said the plane appeared to be gliding into the ground. "All at once it just stopped. There was no engine noise, nothing. Someone hollered, Oh my God!' and then there was a real loud thud." http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaind...3529429109.xml Shortly after 10 a.m., workers on farms and scrap yards in Somerset County looked up to see an airliner flying low and erratic at an estimated 450 mph. http://www.dailyamerican.com/disaster.html#3 Bob Blair of Stoystown was driving a coal truck on state Route 30 when he saw the jet plummet "straight down." Barn windowpanes for half a mile around shattered as the jet dived into a reclaimed strip mine and exploded at 10:10 a. m. http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...17/MN40630.DTL A witness told WTAE-TV's Paul Van Osdol that she saw the plane overhead. It made a high-pitched, screeching sound. The plane then made a sharp, 90-degree downward turn and crashed. http://newsandviews.tripod.com/news/091101tv2.html Bob Blair was completing a routine drive to Shade Creek just after 10 a.m. Tuesday, when he saw a huge silver plane fly past him just above the treetops and crash into the woods along Lambertsville Road. Blair, of Stoystown, a driver with Jim Barron Trucking of Somerset, was traveling in a coal truck along with Doug Miller of Somerset, when they saw the plane spiraling to the ground and then explode on the outskirts of Lambertsville. “I saw the plane flying upside down overhead and crash into the nearby trees. My buddy, Doug, and I grabbed our fire extinguishers and ran to the scene,” said Blair. http://www.dailyamerican.com/disaster.html Another witness, Michael Merringer, said he was out on a mountain bike ride with his wife, Amy, about two miles from the crash site. "(I) heard the engine gun two different times," he said. "(I) heard a loud bang and the windows of the houses all around rattled." http://www.pjstar.com/news/worldtrade/g34835a.html Larry Williams, a former state police trooper who is now a private investigator, was golfing on the 17th green at Oakbrook Golf Course about eight miles away when he heard the engines “roar real loud and shut off.” http://www.dailyamerican.com/disaster.html#3 "We got the call about 9:58 this morning from a male passenger stating that he was locked in the bathroom of United Flight 93 traveling from Newark to San Francisco, and they were being hijacked," said Glenn Cramer, a 911 supervisor. "We confirmed that with him several times and we asked him to repeat what he said. He was very distraught. He said he believed the plane was going down. He did hear some sort of an explosion and saw white smoke coming from the plane, but he didn't know where. "And then we lost contact with him." http://www.post-gazette.com/headline...rashnat2p2.asp Meanwhile, investigators also are combing a second crime scene in nearby Indian Lake (2.5 miles from main crash site), where residents reported hearing the doomed jetliner flying over at a low altitude before "falling apart on their homes." "People were calling in and reporting pieces of plane falling," a state trooper said. Jim Stop reported he had seen the hijacked Boeing 757 fly over him as he was fishing. He said he could see parts falling from the plane. I lost this link.. but since the witness name is there I've left it up. Some witnesses reported that the plane was flying upside down for a time before the crash; others said they heard up to three loud booms before the jetliner went down. http://www.post-gazette.com/headline...rashnat2p2.asp "There was no way anything was left," Pluta added. "There was just charred pieces of metal and a big hole. The plane didn't slide into the crash. It went straight into the ground. Wings out. Nose down." Bits of metal were thrown against a tree line like shrapnel, said state police spokesman Trooper Thomas Spallone of Troop A in Greensburg. "Once it hit, everything just disintegrated," he said. "There are just shreds of metal. The longest piece I saw was 2 feet long." http://www.mypittsburghlive.com/mypi...e&eeid=5245814 http://www.flight93crash.com/flight93_eyewitness.html |
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Interestingly, the plane that crashed a month or so later after leaving JFK was also under suspicious circumstances. |
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However, in hindsight, I suggest they would be pissed W and cronies paid no attention whatsoever to the continuously warned of threat of Al-Q including, inter alia, a memo. a month earlier indicating OBL wanted to attack America via commerical aircraft. I prove my point by noting plenty of the relations of the victims are pissed about this latter hindsight. |
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can't change history, what's done is done. But I do have to say that Ms. Barbara Olson on Flight 77...would be the first to blame the Clinton administration for the lack of military and funding. |
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BTW - W is doing a pretty good job of cutting the military as well, but he does it with post-injury benefits and the like. What a gem he is for that. But, then again, he has never been in combat and Cheney had better things to do - so how would they know what it feels like. But, back to the point, W did nothing to the military after Clinton left and in fact was proposing reduction of it. Then, that SAME military was used in Afganistan and Iraq - both places you have previously asserted the military performed well. So, which is it? I smell a flip flop :laugh: P.S. You do realize you have never won an argument here don't you :laugh: In any event, here is an interesting editorial on this topic and the facts in it are accurate despite the biased source and there are many more like this out there. Clinton's Military Legacy President Bush owes a major debt of gratitude to his predecessor. By Steven J. Nider The United States has had two big demonstrations of American military power on George W. Bush's watch that have been spectacularly successful. The irony here is that Bush fought these wars with the military Bill Clinton bequeathed to him. "A commander-in-chief leads the military built by those who came before him," then-vice presidential candidate Dick Cheney said during the 2000 campaign. "There is little that he or his defense secretary can do to improve the force they have to deploy. It is all the work of previous administrations. Decisions made today shape the force of tomorrow." On this point he was certainly correct. Despite frequent Republican criticism during the 2000 presidential campaign of Clinton-era military deterioration, the force that was so successful in Afghanistan and Iraq -- while continuing to perform a myriad of tasks around the world on a daily basis -- was clearly quite capable. Republican assertions that the military was underfunded and overstretched and that readiness was poor were contradicted by those performances in Afghanistan and Iraq. Moreover, by Vice President Cheney's own standard, this force did not result from anything done by the current administration. The first Bush defense budget went into effect on Oct. 1, 2002, and none of the funds in that budget has yet had an impact on the quality of the men and women in the armed services, their readiness for combat, or the weapons they used to destroy Taliban or Iraqi forces. As a presidential candidate, then-Gov. George W. Bush routinely declared that he wanted a new military shaped for a new world. In his frequently cited speech at the Citadel military academy in September 1999, he said: As president, I will begin an immediate, comprehensive review of our military -- the structure of its forces, the state of its strategy, the priorities of its procurement -- conducted by a leadership team under the secretary of Defense. I will give the secretary a broad mandate -- to challenge the status quo and envision a new architecture of American defense for decades to come. We will modernize some existing weapons and equipment, necessary for current tasks. But our relative peace allows us to do this selectively. The real goal is to move beyond marginal improvements -- to replace existing programs with new technologies and strategies. To use this window of opportunity to skip a generation of technology. This will require spending more -- and spending more wisely. This was a bold vision of the military that accurately expressed the need for major, ongoing change. Unfortunately, it has not been matched with sufficient vision and programmatic commitment by the Bush administration. The 2001 Quadrennial Defense Review, the comprehensive review promised by candidate Bush, fell substantially short of its stated objective. It did not articulate a sweeping new strategy, it did not call for any change in existing force structure, and it did not suggest any major redirection of investment in future systems. Moreover, until the events of Sept. 11, 2001, the Bush administration had not suggested any major increase in defense spending. In most respects, the review looked very much like what one might have expected from the Clinton administration. Essentially, the only major change was the increased emphasis on missile defense. The Bush administration had barely started to make its mark on defense policy before hostilities in Afghanistan began. In the spring of 2001, it requested and received a $5 billion supplemental appropriation for the 2001 defense budget, but that constituted less than 2 percent of defense spending for the year -- mostly for pay raises -- and went largely unnoticed before the war began. The most recent defense budget submitted to Congress by the Bush administration would increase defense spending significantly, but it fails once again to make tough choices and provide a necessary vision of leadership. While U.S. forces in Iraq were a model of what a transformed U.S. military should be, the Pentagon continues to invest in Cold War military hardware -- fighter aircraft, destroyers, and other weapons designed to fight advanced Soviet military capabilities. In fact, the Clinton administration actually spent more money on defense than the previous administration of President George H.W. Bush. The smaller outlays during the first Bush administration were developed and approved by then-Defense Secretary Cheney and then-Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Colin Powell. The Clinton administration did not coast on Reagan-era procurement funding. During the 1990s, the Pentagon invested more than $1 trillion in developing and procuring new weapons and information technology that gave U.S. forces such an unprecedented advantage in the last two U.S. military campaigns. But more significant than the budget increases was the shift that occurred in the mid-1990s. That shift involved much greater emphasis on precision weapons, sensors, robotics, advanced communications, training, readiness, and orienting the intelligence community toward direct support of military operations. It was that shift that produced the superb military that not only swept through Iraq at a rate that defied historical precedent, but used its awesome force with unprecedented precision and effect, unprecedented low collateral damage, and unprecedented low casualty rates. It was the American Revolution in Military Affairs begun in the Clinton administration that was unveiled in Bush's Operation Iraqi Freedom. The combination of Joint Defense Attack Munitions (JDAMs) and unmanned aerial drones -- both products of that shift -- made it possible to find and destroy targets, including mobile targets, more precisely and quickly during Operation Enduring Freedom, the response to the Sept. 11 attacks, and in Operation Iraqi Freedom than in any previous war. As many as 70 percent of all munitions dropped on Iraq were the precision-guided munitions developed and built during the Clinton administration. Funding for the JDAM program began in 1993, Clinton's first year in office. The advanced, GPS-guided Tomahawk cruise missile, which proved far more accurate and reliable than the earlier cruise missiles used in Desert Storm under the first President Bush, was funded in 1999. Unmanned aerial vehicles like the Predator and Global Hawk, which enabled U.S. forces to use combat aircraft in close air support in unprecedented ways, also originated in the Clinton years. The Clinton administration also tried to maintain the quality of military personnel by increasing their pay, and it improved retirement and health benefits for military retirees. During his presidential campaign Bush charged that the Clinton administration had overburdened the U.S. military with too many deployments overseas, and he promised to pare those military obligations. "Resources are overstretched," he said. "Frustration is up, as families are separated and strained. Morale is down. Recruitment is more difficult. And many of our best people in the military are headed for civilian life." Yet in the name of fighting terrorism, Bush is expanding the U.S. military presence overseas faster than Clinton ever dreamed of doing. U.S. forces are not only deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, but the Bush administration has sent advisers and support to the Philippines, Indonesia, Kuwait, Djibouti, Qatar, Yemen, Georgia, and Uzbekistan. The extra $70 billion a year that the administration has pumped into the Pentagon has bought more smart bombs and bigger paychecks, but it has not brought about a significantly larger force. Despite our expanded global war on terrorism, only about 27,000 troops have been added to our 1.4 million active-duty force. Even with these troop additions, the military is more overstretched now than it was when Bush took office. During the first three months of 2003, the United States had more than twice as many troops on overseas missions at any given time as it did in 2000. This has made it harder to recruit and keep the soldiers, sailors, and airmen we already have. Bush did not create military overstretch, but he did campaign on fixing it. Instead, it has gotten worse. Bush and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld deserve enormous credit for the military victory over Iraq. Clinton deserves to share in that credit. Despite Republican cries of a "hollow military," the Clinton administration left behind a highly capable force that served the nation well when an unpredicted threat emerged. How do we know? Cheney said so. Steven J. Nider is director of foreign and security studies at the Progressive Policy Institute. http://www.ppionline.org/ndol/print....ntentid=251793 |
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Well...
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But considering the impact zone of the plane, And how there were no human remains to be found I believe it started to desinegrate in the air and plowed the ground at such a force that you can clearly see the shape of the outline of the plane from the air over the crash site (You can clearly make out the wing tips and the tail section.) once your in that powerful a dive there's nothing to do except pray that you lived your life in a great manner because it will be over in a flash. Will we ever know the truth...Not hardly since the complete cockpit recordings have yet to see the light of day since this is still an 'ongoing investigation' (Kinda like the ongoing investigation into the Murrah bombing...10 years later and the govt. is still clueless, Even though over 100+ witnesses were willing to testify they saw the Ryder truck that morning with 2 passengers, Including Tim McVeigh in the passenger set, not the driver's seat as the govt. likes people to believe.) Guess I did inherit my Mother's love for reading about 'conspiracies'... |
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