Mirage DVD
 

It's rare to find me in the Lindsey forum :laugh: , but I came home for lunch today and popped in the Mirage DVD. I hadn't watched this in ages and only had time to catch the first four tracks but in every one of them, I noticed some things I wanted to talk/ask about. They're mostly Lindsey-oriented, for a change. Btw, this is an awesome DVD. :nod:

First question: Was Lindsey on something? I'm sure Stevie was :laugh: , but was he? He always seems nervous and fidgety in everything I've seen him in, but he seemed especially rabid in this. During Chain, did he have a hard on? I swear, he looks like he has a raging hard on. :shocked:

Second: During Gypsy, Stevie leans down to pick up something right after she sings "paper flowers". I couldn't tell what it was. A paper flower?

Third: During LIS, there's a close-up of Chris singing the line "never take your love away" and then a shot of John looking at her while she's singing it. Aw. I thought that was sweet and kind of sad. Then, there's a shot of her looking in Lindsey's direction very seductively and essentially making eyes at him and then a shot of Lindsey doing it back to her. Now, I know Chris' boyfriend (Dennis Wilson - it was Dennis, right?) and Lindsey's girlfriend hooked up. Was that in 82? I was thinking Chris and Lindsey were consoling each other by also hooking up? I never thought they had fooled around, but watching this DVD on this track and the one after it (NTF), it looks like they were eyeing each other a lot. I wouldn't doubt it because they all seemed incestuous, but did Chris and Lindsey ever have a thing, even briefly?

Fourth thing isn't a question, but just something I have to say. I love NTF, but the DVD version is to die for. I think I'm the only one here (other than Dissention) who doesn't have the hots for Lindsey, but holy sh*t. Every time there was a shot of Chris, she seemed to have her eyes glued on him. In all fairness, I guess it's hard not to watch a man fake an orgasm. :laugh: (He was faking, right? :shocked: ) That *come shot* was much hotter than the Come thing he did for SYW, which gave me the willies. :eek: Anyway, he seemed very hyper though the whole thing. Anyone know if he was coked up?

I'm going to watch the rest of it tonight. It's been years since I've seen it and I think the last time I watched it, I was as high as Stevie (and maybe Lindsey), so I don't remember much. :laugh: It's like watching it for the first time. :nod:

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes.
Ha, just kidding. I thought and noticed all those things myself, though. (Except the hard on, strangely.) Yeah, Lindsey was a serious tweaker in that vid. Yes, I noticed the eyes that Chris gave him. No, I don't know if they hooked up. Sesly doubt it. Libra/Cancer is like Oil/Water. Besides, I just don't think so. I forgot what Stevie picks up.
Um, i think it's almost funny to ask if they were coked up during Mirage. :shrug: No offense.... :woohoo:

I don't know, but probably.
These were raging times for Fleetwood Mac.
I guess whatever you think you see is . . . you know, what you see.
Probably just a rose or some flower. Sometimes people toss their stuff up there because she doesn't run over & take it personally.
I dunno.
I dunno.
Probably easier not to watch when you're seeing it night after night on tour.
He has always seemed spastic to me: on the 1977 tour, the 1980 tour, the 1982 tour.
I dunno.

I wish they had filmed it on film instead of on videotape.

Well, I know she was, but didn't know if he was, too. Seems like I've read that he said he didn't do coke? :shrug: Not that it matters, but I figured if that was about the time Lindsey's gf cheated with Chris' bf, they might have been going at it.. :xoxo:

He should have worn undies, you can see his balls swinging clear as daylight.

That reminds of an old thread on Burnish where someone described 'Lindsey's Pants" in the Mirage video. It was quite funny,

Sorry, but I have to vent a little here. I've seen discussions on this board about blowjobs, snowballing, golden showers, you name it and some a**hole pmed me to tell me my post was pathetic because it contained the term 'hard on'? Wtf? Get a life? Well, the a**hole in question got put on the ignore list, but tell me this. Why can't someone ask a question and not have to use the *proper* term of "erection", while others can openly talk about urinating on someone or blowjobs without a problem? Or, do you guys also get nastily pmed? :rolleyes:

And to the a**hole who pmed me: I'd say you need to get a life if you spend your time sending someone a private message for the sole purpose of putting them down. :nod:

Unless this person is a moderator, they are indeed a f****wad. :) I can't imagine who the heck would say that. Do you ever see them posting? Guess so, cause you put them on ignore....hmmmm....

I'm so tempted to just say his name right here. :laugh: I've never seen his posts and I don't think he's a moderator. I guess it's a guy, but not sure. Part of his screenname was a guy's name, but that doesn't always mean a lot. I just went to his profile and put him on ignore. Yes, he is a f***wad. :nod:

I don't think there was anything wrong with your post whatsoever. In fact, I thoroughly enjoyed reading all those observations because I have not seen the "Mirage" concert at all. People are just uptight I guess.

Since I haven't seen this concert, how would you rate it amongst the "Dance" and "Live in Boston"? Better, about the same, less interesting? I'm curious. Oh, and which performances really stand out? Sorry for being a pain but I so want to see it and hopefully one day I will and would like to know a little about it because that is how I get myself geared up for things. ;)

pfft. even if it was a moderator!

Anyway, on my pc back home I've a series of screencaps Phil made a couple of years ago of Lindsey and John sharing a "cig"... I'll dig it up tonight. It happens during Not That Funny, I think.

:lol: Thanks, Nico :) I got pmed by some very nice peeps about this that more than made up for the a**hole, so I appreciate that. I didn't watch the rest of it tonight like I had planned and it has been a long time since I've seen the whole thing, but I do remember SOTM just knocking me out! That song always does it for me anyway but in the Mirage DVD, she just nails it and then some. She speaks in tongues, she's all over the place and you really almost expect an exorcism at any moment. :laugh: At least, that's what I remember about it. I also can't say enough about how beautiful Stevie looked in this. I know she was tweaked, but she was still gorgeous. She smiled a lot and I think some audience members threw flowers on the stage and during Gypsy, she knelt down mid-song and picked them up. Very cool. (I did watch that part again because I had to know what she was picking up.) Chris looked hot in this, too. Very sexy. The classic scene Mari was talking about was fun. During the drum/guitar solo in NTF, Lindsey lights up a ciggie (I don't think it was a joint because of the way he was smoking it - in big, big, puffs and not holding it in) and stands next to John as they do kind of a bass/guitar duet. John leans in to get a nice hit. Mick looked completely wasted and some roadie kept walking up behind him and pouring beer down his throat. :laugh: Er..Lindsey's ISA was to die for, I thought. They did a very cool Blue Letter and Chris' Songbird was beautiful. A lot of flirting, playfulness and eye contact between Lindsey and Chris. It was pretty obvious that Stevie and Lindsey weren't on the best of terms then, as they went out of their way to avoid each other. Oh, Stevie almost missed her cue at the beginning of Gypsy. Lindsey is strumming on his guitar, John's doing his bass and Mick is lightly drumming and it's funny because they look like they're just killing time waiting for Stevie to finally show up to the party. She ran out just in the nick of time and looked a little out of breath at first. :lol: They all looked pretty coked up and/or stoned and/or drunk, but they put on one hell of a show for that audience. :nod: At the end, I seem to remember Stevie going to the edge of the stage and kneeling down to pick up a bunch of stuffed animals the crowd was giving her as gifts. She said something like "you have no idea how many of these I have at home" or something along those lines. Tomorrow, I definitely want to make time to sit and watch the whole thing over again to refresh my memory. You're not a pain, btw, but aren't you sorry you asked for details? :laugh: As for rating it against Dance and LIB, that's tough. I would probably put it in the same category as The Dance, but the two concerts were so different. It had more energy than The Dance, but that had to do with the drugs I think. LIB, I would put last behind those two. If I had to choose one to actually be at, I think it would be Mirage. To see them back then and Stevie as interactive with the audience as she was, would be a thrill! :wavey:

On edit: If you buy this, don't forget to turn on the subtitles. They're hilarious and all screwed up. For instance, after LIS, Lindsey screams "Christine McVie" and the subtitle says "This is the key!" Couldn't even get the band members' names right. It's a riot.

Someone actually sent you a PM to excoriate you over the use of "hard on"? :laugh: How pathetic.

Oh YEAH? Well YOU need to.....oooops....

;)

There's no comparison. What you're hearing on "The Dance" & "Live in Boston" (which I only saw once) is such a manufactured mixture of dozens of musicians & singers as well as overdubs, you can barely distinguish the members of Fleetwood Mac from their surroundings. You're hearing a "presentation," not a rock concert, as far as I'm concerned. If that's your idea of excitement, I guess you can have a great time watching "The Dance" & "Live in Boston."

the beauty of the older performance is that it's Fleetwood Mac. I used to assume most Fleetwood Mac fans wanted to hear Fleetwood Mac & not a sonic wall of hardware seepage, but I guess I was wrong because I think thousands of people prefer the later shows (which are, to be fair to them, better produced cinematically & certainly benefit from state-of-the-art camera work & 5.1 sound).

I also think it's a reductive mistake to attribute the energy of the 1982 performance to drugs. I think I've made this argument before. You don't perform better on drugs: you might perform freer or looser (or even the opposite, you might clam up) but not better. The band jamming on "Not That Funny" or "The Chain" in the 1982 show is not "drugs." It's energy, commitment, musicianship & confidence.

This goes for the whole post and the quote especially: I couldn't have said it better. the difference between rock and roll and televised pop, although you can see in GYOW and Come and ISA that the energy is still in Lindsey: Def. no drugs. Not that he didnt take them, but they were certainly not the reason of the wickedness, edgyness or energy of the performance.

wasnt Linds smoking the reefer on one of the tunes on the Mirage show? I seem to remember John trying to catch a whiff of it. Looked like a joint to me anyhow.

I agree. I'll always regret not being able to see them live during the earlier days, 'cause we'll NEVER see 'em like that again. (I was 12 when the Mirage tour came through Atlanta....my mom wasn't taking her 12-year-old to Atlanta to see Fleetwood Mac...I'm a cooler mom....)

I was THRILLED to finally be able to see them live during the SYW tour...but the earlier performances will always be my favorite.

I think the drugs played a part in what their performances were, but maybe it's unfair to attribute their performances to them. I think you made a good point about the over-production of the shows today, like The Dance and LIB. Part of the charm of Mirage is that you're watching Fleetwood Mac, not a cast of thousands. You get to hear what they actually sounded like. There are no canned speeches or well-rehearsed antics or dances. Stevie runs out at the last millisecond for Gypsy. She kneels down mid-song to pick up flowers her fans have thrown her, during SOTM you really think she's having a seizure she's so into it, Lindsey puffs on a ciggie during his guitar solo and fakes an orgasm. Would they do that today? I love them but, sadly, they wouldn't. Of course, I think FM are dedicated and talented performers. I think you're right that it's a mistake to attribute all of that solely to drugs but I have to say that they played a part. Lindsey still has a lot of energy, but it's definitely a different kind of energy. It's more controlled. He has everything planned out to the last minute detail and he's accompanied by a huge backup band. Stevie also still has a lot of energy (not so much on SYW, but in Vegas and currently) but her energy level was also much less controlled then. I guess you could attribute it to youth, but it really came down to a lack of inhibitions in Mirage. They had no inhibitions then and it really made for an unbelievable performance. So, why are they clammed up so tight now and have every little word and gesture memorized? Why do they carry their huge backup ensemble everywhere they go? Did they lose confidence and when did their inhibitions get the better of them? Well, they're clean and sober now.. Drugs usually lower inhibitions, although they can make you paranoid, depending on their drug of choice. Coke would have them spun. I'm not saying that it's the only reason Mirage rocked harder, but it definitely played a part.

When I see Fleetwood Mac I want to see Fleetwood Mac. Not Stevie's back up singers or Mick's percussionist (who's barely audible anyway), not 2 add'l guitarist and keyboardist.

Just Fleetwood Mac.
Sort of like Just Jack.

Preach it. I hate the big Broadway show that they insist on hauling out. Leave the backsassers at home, get rid of the extra musicians, and just put on a raw rock show.

I think youth and experience also have a lot to do with the tighter performances of late. I mean after 30 years of singing Rhiannon and GYOW - only so much ad lib still exists :laugh:

I still say it should just just the four of them - period. I also think though Neale, Carlos, Brett, Taku and the others are all very very talented people, they sort of get lost in the mix. So,m I say bring on the four and the great CM if she will come away from the wall.

Word. I CAN'T STAND all the freakin' back up musicians. I CAN'T STAND Stevie's back up singers. Frankly I CAN'T STAND that Stand Back has become a regular in FM shows, or at least that it's the only solo song in the FM show (aside from GI on The Dance). I mean if they want to do a little "solo interlude" where they all do some solo songs, I suppose I could live with that. But if I go to a Mac show, I want to see FM do FM songs.

As for the Mirage show, I wouldn't spend too much time reading into the "looks" they're giving each other. The editing is notoriously bad and there's really no way to tell who anyone is actually looking at.

As for the drugs, who knows, who cares. I mean really...sure they were doing drugs; they were also younger, the S&L relationship was getting worse and more estranged at this point (from what I've read), Stevie was also dealing with Robin Anderson's death around this time, and God knows what else was going on with the other members. I frankly wonder if Lindsey was even doing coke much, if at all, at this point. In two years he would be releasing "I Must Go," which laments Carol Ann's over-dependence on coke.

And no canned speeches? Every Mirage boot I've heard has Lindsey's "It's been two years since we've been on the road...and a lot of people were wondering what happened to us...had we broken up...whatever. But this just goes to show that we refuse to go away (still doing it)!" Although the "We're masochists!" line from Oakland is a refreshing add! :lol:

At this point this was a band on the edge, and to reduce the edginess of this video to, "Musta been doing a lot of coke" just seems too simplistic. :shrug:

:nod:

If we have to hear her sing Stand Back from the millionth goddamned time, let us hear Don't Look Down or Johnny Stew or something. Cripes, Stand Back ain't that great that it has to become a Mac staple.

The backsassers annoy the living **** out of me.

RIGHT?! It makes me wonder if there isn't some back story to this, like it almost ended up on a Mac album so she convinced them to do it. But it got added to the set after Lindsey left...

...or maybe this is why he left! Found out she was pushing to add a solo song to the Tango set! And it was more than he could stand! Hmmmmm!

...Anyway :lol: maybe they were trying to flesh out the set list after Lindsey left and she wanted an up-tempo number. Fine, but once he came back what's the point? Put in Angel or Straight Back...God forbid she do a FM tune! :rolleyes:

Yeah, you're right. I hope they'll be back on the road soon, and may they please visit belgium!

A-Freakin-Men!!!
 

I think some of the songs ("Gypsy," "Eyes Of The World," "Don't Stop") are better served by the more "polished" approach on stage. But others, like "The Chain," "Rhiannon," "Go Your Own Way," are best when the band is left unadorned.

Ahh...but, wait...is it Mick's percussionist who is barely audible or is MICK barely audible? Could it be the guy playing the drumkit BEHIND Mick in the shadows who is REALLY playing and Mick is just playing along inaudibly (to the audience)?

:shrug:

(an old topic ressurrected) The drums & percussion parts on SYW are very UN-Mick-like...they're WAY overly simplistic...where's the inventive pseudo-Third World rhythms? Way more than a majority of the album is in basic 4/4 time. There's no odd syncopation that Mick used to throw into the mix...so it seems that it could be ANYBODY playing those parts...where's the "Mick Fleetwood" sound? It is painfully conspicuous in its absence on SYW.

Speaking of the Mirage concert... this hasn't ever been officially released on DVD, has it? I've seen it on Amazon but it looks like some sort of bootleg... does anyone have this? Is it OK quality? I have this concert on VHS but my VCR is packed away deep in my closet so I'd love to have this on DVD... I keep waiting for some sort of official release but I think I may be waiting forever. :distress:

All the Stand Back hate :laugh: - Wise Up people - that song has now been on I think two FM records and two videos. So, it ain't going nowhere anytime soon :laugh:

And - HELLO - didn't Le Buck get his Go Insane moment - off key and all :eek: :] :] :]

I am with you 150%. I don't like all the backup musicians and I'm not all that crazy about the voices of Sharon and Jana nearly drowning Stevie out at times. That's what's cool about these old shows. You're like "so, that's what Fleetwood Mac sounds like.." Thank gawd some of those were taped! I like Stand Back, but I'd much rather hear her do Storms or SOTM with FM. Those are FM songs and I really think the audience would go for it. They should take a risk once in a while. :nod:

Word. I was curious.

Word. Morbidly curious. :laugh: Actually, I thought I read somewhere that Lindsey didn't do coke much, if at all, but he seemed especially hyper for Mirage. And, yeah, I care because I might be obsessed, but I like to watch the footage of these old shows and try to figure where they're coming from.

The very, very few rote things you hear on Mirage are hardly comparable to the entire SYW tour. Mirage had spontaneity to spare. LIB did not. The Dance did to an extent, but not at all like Mirage. So, they had one or two canned speeches.. :shrug: I can live with that. It's when the whole show down to the way S&L slow dance with each other, the looks, the pause during Landslide for the hand kiss, the romp during Tusk, etc., is so preplanned and totally lacks spontaneity that I start to yawn a little and wish they would loosen up.

I said the drugs played a part. "Musta been doing a lot of coke" would be too simplistic. I didn't deduce it down to drug use only. But, they definitely played a part. :nod:

Yeah and he was pretty nasty about it. :rolleyes:

Well, I have one and personally prefer "stiffy" or the ole reliable "boner" :cool: :wavey:

Where was that thread I was reading..? :shrug: So, golden showers, blowjobs and snowballing are cool in everybody's book, but "hard ons" are a problem? Gotcha.. :rolleyes:

I was joking :laugh: I cannot believe someone got on you about hard on - oh well :laugh:

Ok, sorry.. Now, I'm all paranoid. :lol:

I was like surely the mere mention of the word "stiffy" makes the joking apparent :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

:lol: :laugh: :lol: