New Bushism
 

I was just listening to an excerpt from the Pres's speech in which he defended the treatment of prisoners at Guantanomo, saying we have to realize that these are people who "disassemble' -- then he paused and I wondered what could possbly follow--bombs, societies, security measures? --then he said "that means they don't tell the truth."

Did you hear that Cheney is "offended" over that report? :laugh:

They run a gulag, nothing more.

I would not call it that because it is far more humane - do I have to haul out gulag stories like I did when you compared W to Hitler - ya know you are prone to embellishing and exaggerating :wavey:

But, back to the point, this is classic Rove/Cheney deny deny deny because most of America will believe it because they hate all Arabs. Sad - very true.

And you're prone to understating. We're evenly matched, I suppose. :wavey:

I usually haul out facts to demonstrate my points :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

You both are prone to taking something literally that was meant to be comparative, but not literal - meant to spice up the sentence with a little fun, not be a literal fact. :wavey: :laugh:
You've both done it billions of times... ;)

Who the hell asked you MISSY :p :p :p

Oh, I guess this is another one of those private conversations you guys like to have in the middle of chat? :D Sorreh! :wavey:
:xoxo:

*AHEM* I'd suggest recording somehow/somewhere EVERY argument you EVER have with dear old Jason because he attributes things to you you didnt say (as in thinking I liked the UN or something, or the time he thought I said W started the war in Iraq all by himself, when all I ever said was that W had an agenda before he ever got into the White house! :laugh: Its a sure bet HE has these things bookmarked and catalogued! :nod:

**but wait! I disassemble!** :D

That may be a good plan, but of course I would never do that. I just like to take the occasional teasing poke at My Dear Mr. Jason, the occasional short argument to whatever he has posted, and move along. :) He's much too prone to whipping out enormous articles for me to really invest that much.... :laugh:

:eek: :shocked: :eek: :shocked:

My mind was the Disneyland Autopia and it just went right down that track with no stopping. :laugh: :laugh:

:lol: Ah, I can always count on you, Towie. :woohoo:

Or as Shirley said to Laverne, "You just rode that rubber raft right in to Filthtown, didn't you!?!?"

:thumbsup:

:laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol:
I can always count on Laverne and Shirl, too.

:lol: :laugh: :lol: That is the best! I'll go out on a limb here and say Amber intended for minds to go down that road. :D

And I agree with you Amber that a certain person, who I like and admire :), pulls things out of context and uses them to prove a middle of the road point. I prefer the extreme of being a liberal lefty loon. :thumbsup:

Im with you :blob2: much too difficult trying to be neutral all the time :]

but Amber, I seem to recall you enjoying an overlong article or three that I posted on Creationism/Darwinism not too long ago, so Jason isnt the only one who takes research seriously :nod:

My friends shutter when I go "didn't you say like ten years ago that you . . . " :eek: I was HELL when I used to cross examine :laugh: and BTW - I fairly depicted what you said dear :nod:

and you wear that loony hat well ;) :p :p :xoxo:

Go to amazon.com and check out Confessions of an Economic Hit Man.

Well, here is a def of a Russian gulag from http://www.answers.com/topic/gulag :

Gulag, system of forced-labor prison camps in the USSR, from the Russian acronym [GULag] for the Main Directorate of Corrective Labor Camps, a department of the Soviet secret police (originally the Cheka; subsequently the GPU, OGPU, NKVD, MVD, and finally the KGB). The Gulag was first established under Vladimir Lenin during the early Bolshevik years (c.1920). The vast penal network, which ultimately included 476 camp complexes, functioned throughout Russia, many in the wastes of Siberia and the Soviet Far East. The system reached its peak after 1928 under Joseph Stalin, who used it to maintain the Soviet state by keeping its populace in a state of terror. Gulag deaths of both political prisoners and common criminals from overwork, starvation, and other forms of maltreatment are estimated to have been in the millions during Stalin's years in power.

Perhaps the best known of the Gulag camp complexes was Kolyma, an area in the Far East about six times the size of France that contained more than 100 camps. About three million are thought to have died there from its establishment in 1931 to 1953, the year of Stalin's death. The Gulag scheme was adapted into the infamous concentration camp system used during World War II, especially as Nazi death factories. The Soviet system was publicized in the writings of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, particularly in his book The Gulag Archipelago (1973, tr. 1974). Millions were released from the Gulag under Nikita Khrushchev, and the system was finally abolished by Mikhail Gorbachev.

Bibliography

See A. Shifrin, The First Guidebook to Prisons and Concentration Camps of the Soviet Union (tr. 1980), A. Applebaum, Gulag: A History (2003).
___________________________________________________________

The chief difference is in this sentence Last I checked, that was not happening in any way at Gitmo, which we have one of compared to the system of hundreds in Russia. Thus, Gitmo is FAR from a Russian Gulag.

Here are some more articles:

http://www.townhall.com/bookclub/applebaum.html

http://www.orwelltoday.com/gulagbook.shtml

http://www.paulmitchinson.com/gulag.html

To be clear - I think what is happening at Gitmo is horrible. I think the US should be the "bigger party" and grant all of these people the rights the Geneva Convention grants enemy soldiers captured in battle, though many if not most of those captured do not qualify for that status as it is defined in the Geneva Convention because they were not fighting in a uniform, under the color of a state, etc., as required by the express language of the Geneva Convention. So, please do not mistake my saying that what goes on at Gitmo is not as severe as what happened in a Russian Gulag as saying I approve of Gitmo in any way.

I hope that helped.

In the end, I think it does people no good to make such patently false comparisons because to do so belies the credibility of any serious argument and shows the side making the argument is interested only in tading insults instead of sticking to the facts, which are really all that interest me in such debates.

Hmm, I never would have guessed you were with me on that. ;) Well, it is who I am. I yam what I yam. :D

Yes, I did happen to read and enjoy that one. Yes, you are another article prone one... ;) And I'm far from neutral, but I rarely have lengthy articles at my disposal...in fact, I think I'm even more liberal than y'all! :cool:

Yes, I see your point but I think that Lux was implying that there are worse atrocities happening (led by the U.S.) that we do not yet know about and won't know until it's too late.

But I see your point that assumptions are worth far less than facts, and I'm guessing that was an assumption on her part.

I don't know. I hate putting words in her mouth. I kind of wanted you two to get it on. ( :laugh: ) I was going to sit back and watch. :eek:

EDIT: This was directed at Jason. I realized it may not have been clear.

Oh, it does not always do that. Connotative comparisons are what bring the English language alive!!! I wouldn't recommend doing it in more serious academic writings, or whatever, but I think it often helps underscore the connotations of your point. :cool:
P.S.
Nannynannybooboo!!!:sticks out tongue: :laugh: :xoxo:

Well, I agree it can be funny, but sometimes when in a serious conv., which we have had around here, it is unwarranted. Having said that, Dissention is the same as Mussolini - though he he is not bald - and Lux is his Eva Braun :] :]

:lol:
I see your point, but I think the comparison to a Gulag, while not technically perfectly correct, was apropos, and a good use of comparisons. :cool: Sorry, that's just what I think!!! Darnit!
Plus, on another note, I like when serious discussions are peppered with jokes, it helps me pay attention and stay interested.... :p

Actually it is far from factually accurate in any way and, therefore, inappropriate :wavey: I mean the Russians used the some of the people in the Gulag's as slave labor to build their Communist society's infrastructure. That is just no happening at Gitmo.

Alright, alright. :rolleyes: The common connotation of the Gulag worked for me. But I will take your point. Guess where I will put it??? :laugh: Now where's that damn Margarita I ordered!!!?

No shiite - I would LOVE to have one now - but have to wait for the weekend :mad:

Good boy!!! I just jump roped, and would love one. I have to wait till I have more than 89 cents! :laugh: Look how good we are, though? :angel: For very different reasons.... :p

Well, not really, I just paid my American Express bill, which was, quite frankly, an outrage :eek: and I have an onsalught of bills until July 1 that will keep me on the straight and narrow for awhile - damnitalltohell :laugh:

I hope this isn't some horrible conspiracy to get us to quit drinking!!! :mad: :lol: Yeah, my landlord had a fierce May 31st deadline for me. :distress: That's funny, I'll be on the straight and narrow till at least then, as well!!! Hey, maybe we'll be thinner and look better because of it! Maybe it will be a whole new lease on life! Or maybe we'll just keep bitching like we are now!.... :lol:

:lol: My friend used to call that American Depressed. My ex called it American Distress. :lol: That card is the devil. Okay, not really, I was just never so good with the pay it all off right away bit. Which I wish weren't the case. I'm happy right now to finally be caught up, for the most part. Stevie had me in hock for a while!

Also, I would totally be in on the margs but I had drinks yesterday, wine to be specific, Kendall Jackson pinot noir to be more specific, yes it was yummy, so today I am detoxing. :) Hehe. Plus, I went to the gym which keeps me motivated to eat well afterward. After all that work I don't want to cancel it out! Or do I? :laugh: No! No dammit! :D I had my Dove promises and some green tea and that was pretty yummy and good for me. Yay.

Mission: Completed.


Good Job Ledgies! Great Teamwork! :woohoo:

Way to go, Suze!!!!
Look at it this way, at least you guys have american expresses... :lol:
I've been doing good with excercise as well. :woohoo: But, I'm on the all corndog diet again this week. :distress: (16 corndogs for 3.99!!! Wow!! :laugh: )
keep up the good work!

:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

I'm sorry, i didn't really see it! Oh, and by the way, welcome to my world. :rolleyes:
sorry! :xoxo:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thank you :xoxo: You too. The jumping rope thing is impressive cuz it's really hard. I don't do it. Hehe. But I loved it as a kid, sometimes people do it at the gym but I would be too self conscious. Today it was the elliptical trainer and then my weights.

Speaking of, do you weight train at all and, if so, how many sets do you do? I only do two because I read somewhere that was all that was really necessary. But now I don't remember where I got that and I'm thinking of going up to 3.